Retron 4 (console for snes\nes\genny etc)

[+FujiSkunk]

I have a Retron 3 and a Game Boy Player for my Game Cube, so I'll probably pass on the 4. While I realize it's a smaller market, I'd actually like a system that played everything the Retron 3 does, plus Sega Master System games. Such a system would be perfect for quick testing of the latter-day 8-bit and 16-bit games that still see a lot of movement among collectors.

[Gabriel]

I'd actually like a system that played everything the Retron 3 does, plus Sega Master System games.

 

Yeah, that would be pretty sweet. I've decided that a SMS is not something I'd want to dedicate the space, outlet, and AV port on a TV to hooking up. But if it were part of a multisystem then I'd definitely jump at that. Even Game Gear compatibility would be more appealing than original Game Boy, which is already possible on the Retron 3 with a Super Game Boy anyway.

[Bill Loguidice]

While I'd hate to have another mediocre cartridge-based emulation console, I think throwing more systems at the problem and promises for improvements, among all the other features, have more or less sold me on this thing. The convenience is too hard to ignore unless there are going to be serious issues with it, as yet unknown...

[Austin]

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but can a 4:3 HD CRT even display something full screen in HD (Beyond perhaps from a PC)? I would think this thing would be outputting at 16:9 with pillarboxing and would be displayed letterboxed on your HD CRT.

 

It depends on the set, but yes. Mine can either do a letterboxed widescreen mode, or I can stretch the widened picture vertically to take up the entire 4X3 screenspace. Games originally designed in a 4X3 manner will look how they should, and games designed for 16x9 (or some other widescreen resolution) will be stretched taller/vertically.

[Atariboy]

Even though you can get rid of the letterboxing. how would you get rid of the pillarboxing that this console will hopefully be applying to its 16:9 HD output unless it stretches everything to be full screen 16:9 (Yuck)? Some sort of a zoom mode on your tv?

 

It's worth noting that this advertises GBA compatibility. That clones can already play original Game Boy games via the Super Game Boy doesn't negate this feature. For those unaware, the Game Boy Advance is a much newer handheld with capabilities reminiscent of the Super Nintendo.

 

Surprised people put their expensive flash carts into their clones. I never trusted them enough to try.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Atariboy

[Reaperman]

Even though you can get rid of the letterboxing. how would you get rid of the pillarboxing that this console will hopefully be applying to its 16:9 HD output unless it stretches everything to be full screen 16:9 (Yuck)? Some sort of a zoom mode on your tv?

I know my tv won't let me swap aspect ratio on HDMI, so if there is a switch it better be on the console.

Of course being hyperkin, they probably just stretch everything to fat mode because they think that's what the average user wants.

 

It's hyperkin so you can *COUNT* on them making some earth-crushingly bone-headed decision that somehow undoes most of the improvement you were hoping for over their last console. Watch, even if all the new stuff will work great, something you thought they had down for generations will turn up wrong. If they made a perfect one, what would they sell us next year?

 

"Oh we thought you'd like SNES better if the Y and B buttons were mapped to Start/Select"

Edited March 6, 2013 by Reaperman

[Satoshi Matrix]


I have a 4X3 HD CRT with HDMI ports which would be ideal for testing this thing.


 

I really want to buy a 4:3 CRT that supports HD resolutions. What do you have? All info would be helpful - brand, size of the screen, approximate cost, model number, etc. This is something I want to invest in before they become impossible to find. I mean, more than they already are.

 



I wish this had support for playing roms off a SD card like some of the AtGames products do. GBA flash carts seem to be a confusing mess to wade through which has kept me at bay so a nice clone with that feature would be nice to see. Also I hope the GBA side can also be played with Super Nintendo controllers. If you're stuck playing GBA games with their stock controller, that could easily kill that feature off even if a minor miracle happens and the GBA side is implimented well since I'm sure their controller will be less than ideal.


 

I assume they aren't doing it for legal reasons. Also the whole point is to use your original carts - otherwise, you might as well emulate on a modded Xbox or something along those lines. I share your hope for GBA side being controllable with SNES controllers. This is something I doubt Hyperkin will do though as it would require additional R&D with the 4021 control chip.



I wish this had support for playing roms off a SD card like some of the AtGames products do. GBA flash carts seem to be a confusing mess to wade through which has kept me at bay so a nice clone with that feature would be nice to see. Also I hope the GBA side can also be played with Super Nintendo controllers. If you're stuck playing GBA games with their stock controller, that could easily kill that feature off even if a minor miracle happens and the GBA side is implimented well since I'm sure their controller will be less than ideal.


 

I assume they aren't doing it for legal reasons. Also the whole point is to use your original carts - otherwise, you might as well emulate on a modded Xbox or something along those lines. I share your hope for GBA side being controllable with SNES controllers. This is something I doubt Hyperkin will do though as it would require additional R&D with the 4021 control chip.

 


So, a Retron with a Super Game Boy preinstalled? Game Boy Advance compatibility would be a different story.


 

You must not have read very closely, because Hyperkin's announcement has said nothing about GB/GBC support, ONLY GBA. I could be wrong, but I suspect the RetorN4 will not contain the Z-80 for GB and GBC games and thus will only play GBA.

 


More than likely they're shifting from NOAC technology to emulation with real cartridge slots.

 

What makes you think that? I highly doubt that's the case at all. All systems are very likely simply reverse engineered on a chip (or a few chips) same as always.

[Bill Loguidice]

I for one hope this outputs straight 4:3 HD. I don't want the original aspect ratio messed with. I'd much prefer the black borders with a sharp picture over anything stretched. If they have to go to a default 16:9 to accommodate an imaginary casual need, I too hope for some switch or setting on the console itself to change it.

[Atariboy]

It wouldn't shock me that everything is stretched. A surprising number of people actually choose to play their classic games that way. For some reason some people have some quirk where it irritates them if every inch of real estate on their tv isn't used. So we get pan & scan movies, stretched 4:3 content, and sometimes even 4:3 content is cut down for 16:9 output (I believe that Star Trek The New Generation on Blu Ray is such an offender and some recent Looney Tunes/Merrie Melodies shorts have also been hacked apart to get rid of pillarboxing).

 

Hopefully it at least provides options to respect the original aspect ratio including the GBA side (Off hand without checking, wasn't it 3:2 or something of the sort?).

 

And it sounds as if there is an underlying OS here that allows things like button remapping. So allowing something like the SuperNes controller to function on the GBA side isn't hard, they just have to decide to do it. And there's nothing illegal allowing a device to play roms off SD card. They aren't even working with a company like Nintendo that might withdraw licensing if they were displeased to worry about (And AtGames has done just fine allowing their Genesis clones licensed by Sega of all companies to do it even though Sega has no control over most of the Genesis libray these days. If there was any risk that a company like Activision might get angry that someone played The Mayan Adventure off their SD card, Sega wouldn't touch AtGames with a 10' pole.).

Edited March 6, 2013 by Atariboy

[godslabrat]

It wouldn't shock me that everything is stretched. A surprising number of people actually choose to play their classic games that way. For some reason some people have some quirk where it irritates them if every inch of real estate on their tv isn't used. So we get pan & scan movies, stretched 4:3 content, and sometimes even 4:3 content is cut down for 16:9 output (I believe that Star Trek The New Generation on Blu Ray is such an offender and some recent Looney Tunes/Merrie Melodies shorts have also been hacked apart to get rid of pillarboxing).

Screen-filling for the sake of screen-filling is one of my all-time pet peeves, and if this happens, the RetroN4 will be a complete non-starter for me. IIRC, I don't think TNG cut any of their content, or if they did, it was a few seconds here or there in a scene where the source material actively fought the HD remaster. Not a good thing, but not *quite* the same as cropping for the sake of filling a screen.

And it sounds as if there is an underlying OS here that allows things like button remapping. So allowing something like the SuperNes controller to function on the GBA side isn't hard, they just have to decide to do it.

That's kind of a big assumption, given the facts we have now. They might go the route of making an emubox with cart ports, but for the time being, I lean toward believing this will be another System-on-a-chip design. I am definitely interested. While earlier in this thread I said I was investing heavily in original hardware, it would be reassuring to have a system like this to fall back on.

[Gabriel]

You must not have read very closely, because Hyperkin's announcement has said nothing about GB/GBC support, ONLY GBA. I could be wrong, but I suspect the RetorN4 will not contain the Z-80 for GB and GBC games and thus will only play GBA.

 

Yep. I misread. GBA compatibility is more attractive. I have a lot more GBA games, and GBA compatibility would allow me to retire the GameCube.

[Atariboy]

I can't imagine this getting it correct enough out of the gate to retire my Game Boy Player. It's a move in the right direction though.

 

Even if somehow they manage to create a proper hardware or software recreation with excellent compatibility and proper controller support (The ability to select which system controller you want to use is a must since I'm sure the included controller will be less than perfect. And the confirmed ability to remap buttons has to be able to be applied to more than just the included controller so people that want A & B mapped to Y & B will be satisfied as well as those that prefer the button lettering to match), what about Game Boy Color releases and black Game Boy releases with a GBC mode (Not to mention all the talk about the video output)? if this was going to support that, more than just GBA would've surely been mentioned.

 

I admit there's not much in my collection in that area. But my Game Boy Player still has a place to play things like Link's Awakening DX in full color. The Super Game Boy can't do that. But since that era was so small in the overall life of the Game Boy line, I suppose you very well might not care about losing that compatibility.

 

IIRC, I don't think TNG cut any of their content, or if they did, it was a few seconds here or there in a scene where the source material actively fought the HD remaster. Not a good thing, but not *quite* the same as cropping for the sake of filling a screen. That's kind of a big assumption, given the facts we have now.

 

As I recall from the Home Theater Forum (which is one of the primary gathering places on the internet for those interested in home video content) in the days leading up to releases starting, they were going to be trimming portions of the 35MM 4:3 frame you'd of traditionally seen in order to create a full screen 16:9 presentation. I'm not a fan of the show (I barely like the original series and can't stand any of the subsequent incarnations) so I can't swear what finally happened since I didn't check in after release. But that was the plan at least at one point during production. Edit: Checked a few reviews and it looks like that plan was scrapped and these were released at their proper aspect ratio. Thought of another release that did this though. The World at War, a classic 1970's era documentary series about WWII, is heavily cropped for 16:9 on Blu-Ray.

 

But none the less, we're essentially seeing widescreen's own version of pan & scan starting to crop up now that we're well into the HDTV age. Even more of a sign that this fetish some have with using every inch of screen no matter the impact or logic of it is still alive and well today.

 

I hope the Retron 4 caters to both crowds (And I certainly hope the masses of classic gamer's that prefer playing in the original aspect ratio will be kept in mine at the very least).

 

That's kind of a big assumption, given the facts we have now.

 

They state right in their specs that this allows button remapping, that there's a system menu you boot up to to bring you to the system you want to play, and that swapping between console's via the included controller is possible without getting up and switching something physically on the console itself.

 

So I don't think it's too big of a stretch even though it's possible that there isn't an operating system running in the background when a game is being played. I think it's very likely though and I predict that this is going to rely on emulation technology rather than hardware recreations.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Atariboy

[Austin]

I really want to buy a 4:3 CRT that supports HD resolutions. What do you have? All info would be helpful - brand, size of the screen, approximate cost, model number, etc. This is something I want to invest in before they become impossible to find. I mean, more than they already are.

 

I have a Samsung. 27", does 1920x1080 (interlaced). I don't know the model number, but it looks like the one in this guy's picture (link). I personally feel it's only worth it if you can use the HDMI jack. I notice input lag when I use analog cables, especially when playing something fast paced like a shmup. I see no lines though when using the analogue inputs, which leads me to believe it's a built-in de-interlacer (or something along those lines) that is causing the problem. The HDMI looks fantastic though and has no lag/delay. I'm sure if you have a XRGB Mini or something like that, old systems would look absolutely stellar on it. I should note that not all HD CRTs have the input lag though. I believe Twoquickcapri here has a different brand/model, and he says it doesn't have lag with the analogue inputs. If you are serious about investing in one, they shouldn't really cost you any more than any other CRT. They take up the same kind of space your regular tube does, and nobody wants those anymore. Unless I get a XRGB Mini (unlikely for some time), I will eventually toss mine as well. I have a standard 25" Trinitron/WEGA that is excellent, and the modern systems are best played on something bigger that is meant to be used for 16x9 and higher.

[+Gemintronic]

I think GOAC and GBA emulation are pretty mature. I don't see many problems with them adding it to this console. Even the cheapest asian portable clones can pump out decent GBA emulation. Not so much for SNES or Genesis.. but, I digress.

[Satoshi Matrix]

Austin, do you have a model number for that tv? I want to look it up to see what I can find.

[Austin]

Austin, do you have a model number for that tv? I want to look it up to see what I can find.

 

I was able to dig up the Owner's Manual for it. It's a TX-R2779H.

[Reaperman]

I think GOAC and GBA emulation are pretty mature. I don't see many problems with them adding it to this console. Even the cheapest asian portable clones can pump out decent GBA emulation. Not so much for SNES or Genesis.. but, I digress.

Really? I always thought that the GOACs were always the weak link in these multi-consoles. I've never seen a good one--but then I stopped buying them after I bought an nes/genesis unit with more problems than I could count back in 2008 or so. As far as gbas, most devices that I've seen totally ignore its aspect ratio, and I only know of one company putting out hardware-based gba clones.

 

I really worry that we will see software emulation creeping into these devices. Software emulation generally looks and sounds better, but my hands tell a different story about its quality. A frame or two off can lead to having to compensate with overly conservative play.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Reaperman

[cybercylon]

I will be interested to see how this develops.

 

The original Retron 3 had all of the same problems that most NOAC's had on the NES side. There was a revision that did fix the sound somewhat along with compatibility with Castlevania 3. Unfortunately, the NES games still sound and in some cases just look all wrong with the colors. Made more evident to me once I got around to fixing my controllers. This is no way to play NES games.

 

The Genesis side isn't as much of a mess. At least you can use S-video for the Genesis games. Colors are a bit off, and sound... not horrible.. just sounds different.

 

I can't properly evaluate the SNES side as I do not have a working SNES.

 

My guess is that we will not see huge improvements with the Retron 4, and if it is HDMI only, I am not interested... Bluetooth wireless for the controllers is an improvement (well, anything will be). I do like how they kept the feature of using original controllers.

 

But really, what can we realistically expect from these things given how cheaply they are made and what they sell for? If you are expecting a perfect experience, you will be disappointed. Frankly, I'd be happy if the damn thing would work properly and they put a better effort on the NES side. Not holding my breath though.

[+Gemintronic]

Really? I always thought that the GOACs were always the weak link in these multi-consoles. I've never seen a good one--but then I stopped buying them after I bought an nes/genesis unit with more problems than I could count back in 2008 or so. As far as gbas, most devices that I've seen totally ignore its aspect ratio, and I only know of one company putting out hardware-based gba clones.

 

I really worry that we will see software emulation creeping into these devices. Software emulation generally looks and sounds better, but my hands tell a different story about its quality. A frame or two off can lead to having to compensate with overly conservative play.

 

yeah. I kinda got my terminology conflabbered. I meant GBA emulation and/or hardware. It's been "one of those" weeks

[Rex Dart]

I'd love to. In reality I cannot devote that much room for all the systems I like to play.

 

That still leaves emulation an option...

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

Well on the HYPERKIN Facebook page just 17minutes ago the removed another piece covering an image of the system. At the very least it does seem to be much different then past versions.

 

Edited March 13, 2013 by OldSchoolRetroGamer

[+Gemintronic]

They removed a piece of revealing advertising? Are they going Merlin and aging their products backwards into oblivion?

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

They removed a piece of revealing advertising? Are they going Merlin and aging their products backwards into oblivion?

 

huh?

[+Gemintronic]

Well on the HYPERKIN Facebook page just 17minutes ago the removed another piece covering an image of the system. At the very least it does seem to be much different then past versions.

 

 

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

 

So, it's about a typo? Ok TO CLARIFY (for those who could not figure it out ) A cover photo on the Hyperkin Facebook page was posted of the RETRON 4 / Hyperkin

LOGO which they remove a piece of every few days to reveal an image of the console underneath. The picture I posted is of the current reveal status.

 

@theloon, sorry I STILL don't get your comment.... .....maybe that's a good thing.......

Edited March 13, 2013 by OldSchoolRetroGamer