Retron 4 (console for snes\nes\genny etc)

[Algus]

Hoho, if they did that I would be there. Maybe some of those things besides PS1 are to obscure though. Lots of Sega CD games I love but maintaining one of those damn things is an exercise in frustration. Neither model of the Sega CD was built to last. Turbo Duo and Neo Geo CD are two consoles I just can't bring myself to add to the lineup but I'd still play the games if I had the option.

[Falconhood]

Are there any retron systems or similar that run Intellivision, Coleco, TG16, or other cartridge games. How many times are they going to make an NES clone? Branch out!

[Uzumaki]

Atari clone exists, look to Flashback 2 with cart mod. Intellivision clone would be a real pain in the butt to do because of odd logic design. Even if they used FPGA instead of original CPU and RAM chips, they'd still need to decode and encode between system and cart slot.

 

CV and SMS are probably easy to clone but probably not profitable enough to make it worth while.

[Algus]

I don't think it is a mistake that we've gone from famicom clones to these combo units. There's definitely a market for this kind of tech but it probably isn't very big. By offering a single unit that does multiple systems, they probably save on R&D and can move more units overall. I think the best we can hope for is that they tack some of those more obscure systems onto a big combo-unit clone.

 

ATGames has a Genesis clone that includes games on a chip as well as a dedicated cartridge slot. I'd love to see the next Flashback have a dedicated slot as well. 2600/7800 support ideally. Then cross our fingers and pray that maybe they think about Inty and Coleco support lol

[Andromeda Stardust]

Are there any retron systems or similar that run Intellivision, Coleco, TG16, or other cartridge games. How many times are they going to make an NES clone? Branch out!

Face it, those systems just aren't popular enough. I must admit TG-16 support would be awesome (some of my favorite Virtual Console games on Wii were Turbo games), but Hu-cards are had to find. Atari 2600 was hugely popular, but face it, nobody today (outside of AtariAge) gives a crap about 2nd gen systems released before NES. NES, SNES, Genesis, GB, GBC, and GBA were all leaders during their generation. SNES and Genesis were equally popular, but SNES has more desirability as a retro system due to the Nintendo brand, which makes the Genesis versions of many games cheaper. All of the other Sega systems besides Genesis / Megadrive (including the Sega CD and 32X ad-ons) were underdogs in my opinion. Patents on the N64 haven't expired yet, which is allegedly why Hyperkin won't release an N64 clone, although that didn't stop them from adding support for newer systems (GBA). I think the real reason why they won't support N64 carts is that they are probably using underpowered graphics hardware. But I must admit, N64 would look pretty darned sweet at 960x720 60Hz pillarboxed on a pretty HD monitor. Ouya supports N64 emulation, but adding Tegra 3 would probably be too expensive to keep the Retron5 under $100 considering the fact it has 5 bulky cart connectors. Maybe someday they'll release a Retron7 with N64 and Atari 2600/7800 slots? The Genesis and Atari could share the same controller ports. Paddle support might be a problem though. Edited June 25, 2013 by stardust4ever

[Falconhood]

I just got home an hour ago from the city where I got that Sega Genesis clone with 80 games,... for $13.33!!! so stoked! I have already tried GoldenAxe3 and some carts. I need to remember which of my Sega Games are MEGADRIVE, because this official clone PLAYS MEGADRIVE GAMES!!! and, all of my sega games are in UGC on the shelf...I really wish i distinguished the MEGADRIVE games I have, since it's probably only one, and that one is the needle in a haystack.

I'm just saying that every retcon is basically the SAME systems.

I'd love to see Retcon Intellivision, but the controllers would need overlay keyboards, which would be tough.

Coleco and SMS could share code, since " ColecoVision shares the same CPU and a sound chip with Sega Master System, also a similar but inferior graphics chip." and was easily ported to Genesis, so with tweaking Retcon 6 should include SMS and Coleco slots...the software is already there, really.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Falconhood

[Atariboy]

I imagine the biggest hurdle with the Sega Master System would be justifying the cost for a dedicated cartridge slot.

 

If properly emulated, due to the inclusion of its processor with the Genesis, it's just a small leap to offering compatibility for actual SMS games. Especially if they didn't bother emulating its optional FM sound that Japanese systems had if that's a complicated programming endeavor. But the cost of the physical additions to the system are the primary issue here rather than the extra programming.

 

Would be nice if they'd offer up a Game Gear slot. Would be a bit of extra programming to account for the differences from the SMS hardware embedded into the Genesis, but easy tv/out for Game Gear releases would be a selling point and there are existing adapters for Sega Master System compatibility that could be utilized even if they didn't include a cheap pin adapter out of the box or sold one separately.

 

If they just got over their unfounded worries about supporting rom loading off SD cards, they probably could easily offer up compatibility with several classic systems thanks to their work on their Genesis/MegaDrive emulator.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Atariboy

[Falconhood]

well, they could make a Retcon for all sega separately from the NES systems:

NESCON: N64, SNES, NES, Colecovision

SEGACON: all the disc systems (SCD-Dreamcast) would be ONE "slot", SG, SMS (2), GG...since nobody I know has a STILL WORKING GG. that would be 5 slots

 

I always considered Colecovision to be the predecessor of NES because of the Donkey Kong to Super Mario connection, but after reading about the hardware shared between it and SMS, I may have to change the associations.

[+Gemintronic]

If they just got over their unfounded worries about supporting rom loading off SD cards, they probably could easily offer up compatibility with several classic systems thanks to their work on their Genesis/MegaDrive emulator.

 

I don't think I've seen any mention of ROMzorz from them but it makes sense (that they'd be concerned.) An easy out would be to expose the Android side so people could write their own new features.

[Atariboy]

Hopefully their emulators are capable enough to at least support Everdrives, PowerPaks, and the like.

 

There's no legality issues though with SD rom loading support. It's no more illegal than a MP3 player would be or reprogramable flash cartridge. There's no patents for them to infringe on and just because a feature can be used for copyright infringement doesn't make it illegal like some naively believe. Not long ago, even when the patents had long since expired, releasing a emulator for any console was viewed as questionable legality in some circles. And then the same was said with earlier clones even when patents had expired and no copyrighted bios was needed.

 

Rom loading will be next to lose that stigma and there are already clones that have that capability. Even that Flashback 2 Portable that Atari didn't pick up had rom loading capabilities as I recall. So I'm sure Hyperkin will come around although their official line as of now is that it's a feature they're uncomfortable with for legal reasons.

 

Maybe the Retron 6 in 2014....

Edited June 25, 2013 by Atariboy

[StoneAgeGamer]

There's no legality issues though with SD rom loading support. It's no more illegal than a MP3 player would be or reprogramable flash cartridge. There's no patents for them to infringe on and just because a feature can be used for copyright infringement doesn't make it illegal like some naively believe. Not long ago, even when the patents had long since expired, releasing a emulator for any console was viewed as questionable legality in some circles. And then the same was said with earlier clones even when patents had expired and no copyrighted bios was needed.

 

You are correct, but as of last I heard Hyperkin and the like have no interest in this. Mainly because, although maybe not illegal they don't want to even bother going to court over it. Nintendo makes pretty good money off the Virtual Console, they may feel this is a threat to that and attempt to take them to court over it. I just don't think its something they want to deal with. This is a bit different than flash carts because at least with flash carts they often require original hardware and are often expensive. They are hardly a cheap alternative to the Virtual Console. Where as a system like this could possibly be. This is not to say they haven't changed their mind on this or maybe they will leave an obvious "back door" open that would allow it. Maybe even Nintendo wouldn't care.

 

I am suppose to be getting one of these to Beta test some day. I will for sure test them with flash carts, but I will not be surprised if they don't work. At least not without maybe KRIKzz making a change to the OS or firmware of the flash carts to make it work. Which if the RetroN5 is popular enough I am sure he will look into. He has requested me to send him other clones in the past.

[Atariboy]

People thought the same about clone systems themselves at one point. Rom loading capabilities will become widely available in time as they try to find new draws to get people to buy yet another clone. Particularly with these emulation based ones, it's a major draw and incredibly easy to include basic rom loading features.

 

And others have included such features before. AtGames with their Genesis clones for an example. Yet I'm not aware of any publisher of Genesis software giving them any hassle. And as I recall, the Flashback 2 portable was all set to include the feature for 2600 software but of course Atari never picked it up for release.

 

One of these multi system clones that includes Nintendo hardware will include the feature eventually. And there seems to be some hope that even if Hyperkin doesn't officially have the capability, due to its nature of the hardware if it's kept open, it could easily be added by the homebrew community. So it could be a moot point even on the Retron 5 for those that want that feature.

 

And perhaps be the best of both worlds if they're really that paranoid about it and think some false litigation to bankrupt them is a real possibility.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Atariboy

[Falconhood]

I keep hearing about a Virtual console? How does that work? is it like Netflix, where I pay $7.99 a month, and it's like a Virtual DVD Player(figuratively speaking) with several titles to select from? or is it A-La-Cart? The newest system i have is PS2, and I don't think it has WiFi...but not really sure. I rarely ever touch it.

[0078265317]

I keep hearing about a Virtual console? How does that work? is it like Netflix, where I pay $7.99 a month, and it's like a Virtual DVD Player(figuratively speaking) with several titles to select from? or is it A-La-Cart? The newest system i have is PS2, and I don't think it has WiFi...but not really sure. I rarely ever touch it.

 

I think you mean WII. You buy the games. Not monthly.

[+Gemintronic]

You are correct, but as of last I heard Hyperkin and the like have no interest in this. Mainly because, although maybe not illegal they don't want to even bother going to court over it. Nintendo makes pretty good money off the Virtual Console, they may feel this is a threat to that and attempt to take them to court over it. I just don't think its something they want to deal with. This is a bit different than flash carts because at least with flash carts they often require original hardware and are often expensive. They are hardly a cheap alternative to the Virtual Console. Where as a system like this could possibly be. This is not to say they haven't changed their mind on this or maybe they will leave an obvious "back door" open that would allow it. Maybe even Nintendo wouldn't care.

 

I am suppose to be getting one of these to Beta test some day. I will for sure test them with flash carts, but I will not be surprised if they don't work. At least not without maybe KRIKzz making a change to the OS or firmware of the flash carts to make it work. Which if the RetroN5 is popular enough I am sure he will look into. He has requested me to send him other clones in the past.

 

Lack of flash cart support is a dealbreaker for me. Since the Retron 4/5 is emulation there is no excuse not to (support flash carts). Emulation is designed to be more lenient than actual hardware. I apreciate your and Krizzs willingness to put some effort into testing and compatibility. It's these kinds of things that make me spend money with you.

[Atariboy]

I keep hearing about a Virtual console? How does that work? is it like Netflix, where I pay $7.99 a month, and it's like a Virtual DVD Player(figuratively speaking) with several titles to select from? or is it A-La-Cart? The newest system i have is PS2, and I don't think it has WiFi...but not really sure. I rarely ever touch it.

 

The Wii, the Wii U, and the 3DS each have what's called a Virtual Console. It's a online store front where for $5 to $10 or so you can buy a digital download of a emulated past classic like Super Mario Brothers from the NES. Wikipedia has list for each system's Virtual Console if you want to see what platforms are covered and what the software selection currently looks like for each of the three platforms.

 

I'm rather skeptical that Nintendo is giving the Retron 5 any sort of attention. Short of preloading it with Nintendo classics, I really doubt that they will have Nintendo's attention one way or another or that they would try to do something underhanded like litigation over a feature they realize isn't illegal just in order to try to run Hyperkin's bank account dry and force an exit.

 

The Retron 5 could be extremely well built, a bargain, have perfect emulation, and features like rom loading and I'm sure the impact on their Wii U Virtual Console would still be completely negligible. So it wouldn't be worth the trouble to go after. The vast majority of the Wii U's Virtual Console customer base will never even hear about this thing.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Atariboy

[StoneAgeGamer]

People thought the same about clone systems themselves at one point. Rom loading capabilities will become widely available in time as they try to find new draws to get people to buy yet another clone. Particularly with these emulation based ones, it's a major draw and incredibly easy to include basic rom loading features.

 

And others have included such features before. AtGames with their Genesis clones for an example. Yet I'm not aware of any publisher of Genesis software giving them any hassle. And as I recall, the Flashback 2 portable was all set to include the feature for 2600 software but of course Atari never picked it up for release.

 

One of these multi system clones that includes Nintendo hardware will include the feature eventually. And there seems to be some hope that even if Hyperkin doesn't officially have the capability, due to its nature of the hardware if it's kept open, it could easily be added by the homebrew community. So it could be a moot point even on the Retron 5 for those that want that feature.

 

And perhaps be the best of both worlds if they're really that paranoid about it and think some false litigation to bankrupt them is a real possibility.

 

 

Well people thought that about clones because they actually were indeed illegal (at one time) because the patents had not expired. The patents have expired on all the systems that are cloned now. Also a difference is that Nintendo doesn't make money off old system hardware anymore, but they still do make money off old games via the Virtual Console. When there is money involved you better believe lawyers are watching.

 

I do agree it will start happening eventually most likely, I am just stating from what I have heard. They are not interested in raising the ire of some of these companies. I wouldn't be shocked at all if there was some type of unofficial feature that did indeed work with ROMs. Maybe even an official one, who knows?

[Atariboy]

Even with active patents, they weren't necessarily illegal. Witness all the Atari 2600 clones which I believe Atari even unsuccessfully tried to shut down. And even during the 1990's with early NES clones like the adapter for the Super Nintendo, I don't remember ever hearing of any issues. Just the NES on a chip's that were preloaded with copyrighted NES software ever seemed to encounter trouble and rightfully so.

 

And even back around 2004 or 2005, it seemed like people were still thinking that there was something shady about things like NES clones when I believe every patent related to the system hardware itself had already expired several years earlier. Of course that stigma has been fully erased at this point. And even systems that presumably still have active patents are being cloned like 2001's Game Boy Advance.

 

I bet rom loading will be next in line to be de-stigmatized soon in the drive to find a new feature to attract buyers. Short of adding new systems which is starting to get rather impractical now that there are up to 5 individual cartridge slots and improvements in compatibility which always unfortunately are more difficult and slower than we'd wish, they're going to need a new hook and this is a legal and easy one.

 

Upscaling should keep Hyperkin with a big selling point for a while. But I bet rom-loading will be somebody's hook soon with one of these multi-system clones. If not Hyerpkin, than another manufacturer.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Atariboy

[StoneAgeGamer]

Even with active patents, they weren't necessarily illegal. Witness all the Atari 2600 clones which I believe Atari even unsuccessfully tried to shut down. And even during the 1990's with early NES clones like the adapter for the Super Nintendo, I don't remember ever hearing of any issues. Just the NES on a chip's that were preloaded with copyrighted NES software ever seemed to encounter trouble and rightfully so.

 

And even back around 2004 or 2005, it seemed like people were still thinking that there was something shady about things like NES clones when I believe every patent related to the system hardware itself had already expired several years earlier. Of course that stigma has been fully erased at this point. And even systems that presumably still have active patents are being cloned like 2001's Game Boy Advance.

 

I bet rom loading will be next in line to be de-stigmatized soon in the drive to find a new feature to attract buyers. Short of adding new systems which is starting to get rather impractical now that there are up to 5 individual cartridge slots and improvements in compatibility which always unfortunately are more difficult and slower than we'd wish, they're going to need a new hook and this is a legal and easy one.

 

Upscaling should keep Hyperkin with a big selling point for a while. But I bet rom-loading will be somebody's hook soon with one of these multi-system clones. If not Hyerpkin, than another manufacturer.

 

I am not arguing with you, but things are somewhat different even now compared to 20 - 30 years ago. IPs are protected much more vigorously because of the internet. I think if Hyperkin had the choice of risking going to court (even if small) and include ROM play or not go to court they would choose not to go to court and forget about ROM play. The reason AtGames may not be as worried about including ROM play is because they do have an official Sega license and second they have no U.S.-based presence. Personally I just want to RetroN5 to work and work well, with or without ROM play.

[Atariboy]

Hopefully they come around since creating a clone system with the ability to load software images off something like SD card is no more illegal than creating a clone system that can play original cartridges. So hopefully companies like Hyperkin see the light soon like I predict since it would certainly be a useful addition and something many of their buyers would likely make heavy use of.

 

But of course getting the fundamentals right is top priority. Hopefully they deliver on that front although I'm rather skeptical. Seems too ambitious to not have tons of flaws out of the gate.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Atariboy

[NinjaWarrior]

They somehow going F this up

 

I'm waiting for the Super Retro Trio

[Andromeda Stardust]

They somehow going F this up

They already did by not adding a 2600/7800 cartridge slot.

 

In all honesty, I'm really stoked about this upcoming console. If they do manage to eff it up, we will know when StoneAgeGamer gets his pre-launch review copy.

[Atariboy]

On the bright side, if it is open, at least the community itself could make improvements or even install superior existing Android based emulators on it if the Hyperkin installed programs have issues.

 

If they lock it down though, I can't imagine it improving even though the capability would seem to be there for company applied updates to be ran off SD card to update the software. I really don't see Hyperkin being customer support oriented enough to support their product in such a manner although I'd love to be proven wrong.

 

So hopefully if the platform is locked down, they get it reasonably correct out of the gate.

 

I'm waiting for the Super Retro Trio

 

Sadly I bet the NES side has the usual slate of NOAC issues.

 

I'm interested in their Game Boy Advance adapter and hearing if it works with a standard Super Nintendo like the Super Game Boy. I imagine though that it's proprietary to the Super Retro Trio or has its own video output instead of routing it through the system like a Super Game Boy.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Atariboy

[+Gemintronic]

I hinted at the Retrode developer via email that he could do better than Hyperkin. Pending that, I could see someone jailbreaking the Retron 4/5, installing Stella and attaching the Retrode. They have 2600 adapters. Everyone wins.

 

Most Android based devices have unofficial community based firmware updates. I think the idea of an open Android box with interchangeable cartridge slots is ideal.

[Andromeda Stardust]

How do we know that the retrode is Android based? Even if it shares similar mobile tech, the OS may very well be proprietary.