anyone excited about the upcoming (fall) Xbox 720?

[moycon]

Moycon was joking that there's no info out there so I grabbed some info for him.

 

My joke was that I am extremely busy right now with getting ready for summer. If you were interested in helping me, spamming the thread wasn't the way to do it. You'd have to grab some gloves and some bags of pine bark, or maybe a paintbrush and a can of paint, or heck even a rake to help me out. As it stands I've had time to read none of your links and "excerpts", and honestly being as busy as I've been hasn't made me forget how to surf the web anyways, so it really was completely un-necessary.

 

Thanks anyways.

 

Just because the Xbox, PSP, and Wii were hacked to a high degree and that several older consoles are emulated very well today that are predominantly from 20 years ago or more isn't a guarantee for any current generation console quickly being cracked wide open or emulated for PC users to a high degree after support concludes

 

As far as I know the 360 is already hacked. Look up JTAG Xbox 360. The downside is you can't take one on Live because it will be banned. Something that shouldn't be an issue in the future when the servers are down anyways. So the guarantee isn't necessary in the Xbox 360s case. If you are talking about the Xbox One, then yeah, I'll discuss that in a decade when it's more relevant and not just speculation/opinion.

 

I do know that when they shut down the 360 Live servers, the first thing I'm going to do is fire up my 360 and play all my DLC games one after the other. Probably post a video of it as well. The whole time I'll be laughing. Laughing at all the people who cried "My DLC will disappear when the servers are shut down!! WHAAA!!!" Just watch me!

[Osgeld]

So the 720 will just be a PC in a fancy box?

 

the last 3 generations of consoles has been a PC in a fancy box

 

dreamcast and ps2 are arguably the last from the ground up dedicated game machines, Gamepube and XBOX were a powerPC-ATI and Celeron-Geforce, all three last gen were just power pc and video + special OS, this time around they are going back X86 (which honestly MS pick a damn platform, maybe you can have some sort of backwards compatibility)

 

For decades, arcades showcased the best of the top notch hardware dedicated to gaming, that ended in the late 90's with the death of arcades (again) and the super fast rise in PC horsepower thanks to fierce competition between intel & AMD, ATI & Nvidia & 3dFX

Edited May 23, 2013 by Osgeld

[bennybingo]

...honestly MS pick a damn platform, maybe you can have some sort of backwards compatibility...

Honestly, I think it is clear by now that MS has no desire to have backwards compatibility...actually, it is the opposite. This new generation console is a cash grab. Backwards compatibility would reduce the income level drastically. Consider this...if I were to buy the Xbox One (which I am doubting...at least for now), in order to continue playing my 360 games, I would have to own and maintain that system separately. This likely means:

• TWO Xbox live accounts (one for each system)
  
• Replacement of faulty hardware (controllers wear out, systems die, hard drives fill, etc...multiply this times two)
  
• DLC and points on two accounts
  
• Games for two different systems
  

If they made backwards compatibility, at least 50% of the revenues listed above would be consolidated. Multiply that loss times the millions of current 360 users and I am sure you can see the math.

 

When you consider the lack of advances in technology, this new piece of hardware is a cash grab...plain and simple. It seems so similar, I can hardly even call this thing "next gen".

 

It doesn't matter though...we, the consumers, are just that...our opinions and desires mean nothing to MS...nothing. They are a big business, and they are trying to do what will make them the most money. I can't fault them for that, but I can choose to not buy this system...not unless something major changes my mind when they unveil part two at E3. Somehow, I doubt it will be all that much more spectacular though. Only time will tell.

[Hyper_Eye]

You can log into your Xbox Live account from any 360. While the original Xbox was still able to connect to Xbox Live you were able to use the same account on both systems. You could also play your Xbox games on both systems. 3 out of 4 of your bullet points are struck down by Xbox history and the way that Xbox Live accounts function.

[moycon]

Honestly, I think it is clear by now that MS has no desire to have backwards compatibility...actually, it is the opposite.

 

My understanding is you can buy an add-on device for the Xbox-One that will allow BC with the 360. Has that been proven to be a false story?

[Atariboy]

That was a rumor several weeks ago. The rumored Xbox 360 SKU without a disc drive that was designed for playing downloadable games and serving as a media streamer was said to be able to plug into the Xbox One to enable backwards compatibility with retail games played via the Xbox One's Blu-Ray drive.

 

As far as I know, nothing has came of it yet. And since it's still a separate system, I really don't see the benefits. I guess if you want to possibly use the Xbox One controller with your Xbox 360 games (Although since it's a standalone device as rumored, you might have to use 360 controllers) and be able to shift from Xbox 360 content and Xbox One content without doing things like changing the input on your tv, it has some limited benefits. And you save a HDMI input and a tiny bit of shelf space since the Xbox 360 is presumably smaller than a standalone console would be.

 

But to me it has the appeal of something like those old 2600 adapters that the Intellivision and Colecovision had. Not integrated enough for backwards compatibility for my taste.

 

If it comes from a source that correctly predicted much of what has now been confirmed, maybe it's real. There were too many rumors though for me to keep straight.

 

As far as I know the 360 is already hacked. Look up JTAG Xbox 360. The downside is you can't take one on Live because it will be banned. Something that shouldn't be an issue in the future when the servers are down anyways. So the guarantee isn't necessary in the Xbox 360s case. If you are talking about the Xbox One, then yeah, I'll discuss that in a decade when it's more relevant and not just speculation/opinion.

 

I'm mainly talking about the Xbox One.

 

But aren't early Xbox 360's the only ones that could have that done to them? As I understand it, they closed the vulnerability years ago. Or has a new loophole been discovered?

 

And beyond playing rips and I think lifting region locking, I'm not aware of just how open it made things. If you're still not able to do something like install your old XBLA games manually and downloadable content, it's still not there. And then there's the question of usability and convenience with any of these things which I suspect JTAG falls well into the geek category with since it seems to be no where near as ubiquitous as Wii homebrew and PSP homebrew were for two well known examples.

 

If you have to jump through too many hoops to accomplish homebrew hacking since myself and many others aren't computer professionals and need something simple or if it's too limited like only opening up the library only to a certain point since later games had something like server checks that need access to now gone servers to allow the software to run, it's still undesirable.

 

So all in all, those hopes don't allay my concerns for future consoles. So for those of you that think you may want to enjoy your Xbox One and your investment after the date long in the future when Microsoft pulls the plug, keep it in mind that as it stands your console will all but be a brick and your discs would just be good for coasters barring the hope for a homebrew future afterwards that lifts those limitations that isn't guaranteed of happening going in.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Atariboy

[moycon]

But aren't early Xbox 360's the only ones that could have that done to them?

 

No. They are all hacked, and as far as I know, you can even network play them with other hacked systems.

I'll tell you, seems like damn near every single game from the beginning of gaming can be played on a modern box. Be it a PC, or even a console. I have no reason to think that won't continue. You shouldn't either, unless you're just a worry wart. And hey, even if in 15 years (How old will you be then?) they shut the Xbox One servers down, and you can't play any Xbox One games, or any Xbox One DLC content going forward, just think of all the millions of games you could be playing anyways via other means regardless of it all. Seriously, it's honestly silly to even discuss in my opinion. When the servers are shut down, it just means you can't connect to Live. That's it. We'll talk about this again in a decade when the Xbox One has been hacked and the Xbox 2 has been announced!

[bennybingo]

You can log into your Xbox Live account from any 360. While the original Xbox was still able to connect to Xbox Live you were able to use the same account on both systems. You could also play your Xbox games on both systems. 3 out of 4 of your bullet points are struck down by Xbox history and the way that Xbox Live accounts function.

Well, if we are going that route, the whole new system is going in the exact OPPOSITE direction of the 360 and original Xbox...historically speaking. Somehow, with all of the new DRM which has been spoken about, along with the requirement to pay a licensing fee to play used games (or use your own store bought game on a different console), I am not exactly optimistic about the new Xbox. Like I said earlier...time will tell.

[Hyper_Eye]

Well, if we are going that route, the whole new system is going in the exact OPPOSITE direction of the 360 and original Xbox...historically speaking. Somehow, with all of the new DRM which has been spoken about, along with the requirement to pay a licensing fee to play used games (or use your own store bought game on a different console), I am not exactly optimistic about the new Xbox. Like I said earlier...time will tell.

 

I went down that route because it is actual history we can draw conclusions from. Anything else is pure speculation as there has been no announcement of any BC support. All of the information we have so far tells us that there won't be BC. But we do know that Xbox Live accounts will be compatible with both systems. I think the reason they didn't do BC was because they don't feel there is any real value in it, some customers think it's neat to have but mostly nobody uses it, and they want to avoid the situation they had with the 360 where they had partial BC and customers were confused about what games they could play on their 360. None of the reasons you presented would even fall on a top 5 list of reasons to take BC off the table IMO.

[HammR25]

All you have to do is post links and say what the articles are about. Posting long articles doesn't guarantee that anyone will read them. It's more of a guarantee that they'll get pissed off that they have to scroll down so far to get to real posts and finally complain to a moderator that you are spamming the thread with long articles that you didn't write and you'll get banned from the thread or people will simply put you on ignore and your 'helpful' posts won't be seen at all.

 

You're doing it wrong.

 

 

It should be done like this:

 

 

Link Only:

 

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/05/21/call-of-duty-ghosts-written-by-syriana-and-traffic-scribe-s/

 

I don't really care who wrote the new Call of Duty game because I'm not going to buy it as I'm tired of FPS games right now.

[Atariboy]

No. They are all hacked, and as far as I know, you can even network play them with other hacked systems.

I'll tell you, seems like damn near every single game from the beginning of gaming can be played on a modern box. Be it a PC, or even a console. I have no reason to think that won't continue.

 

That's a nice development then. What keeps it from being more common. The threat of Xbox Live bans?

 

And for many systems, I'm not pleased with the emulation options. Even the Super Nintendo has only been emulated to my satisfaction recently. ZSNES always had issues if you strayed away from the million sellers. And even then things were screwed up like Super FX games running too fast.

 

As far as I know since the disc era started, N64 emulation is halfway decent, GCN/Wii emulation is reaching that point but still has processing demands that are very high, and Playstation emulation seems good. Most of the rest is still at a primitive state and no substitute for the real deal.

 

And even if emulation happens, the cloud functions they're discussing for the future are alarming. I'm assuming cloud saves aren't a major issue since even this 24 hour window would be useless if they're not at least also present in the local cache. But how will they emulate a game when it's at least partially running remotely with that code presumably not on the disc itself?

 

Plus, my worry is more so about the console itself, my games I've purchased, and my ability to acquire more games in the future. So emulation, while it's at least something, still wouldn't resolve my issue.

 

You shouldn't either, unless you're just a worry wart. And hey, even if in 15 years (How old will you be then?) they shut the Xbox One servers down, and you can't play any Xbox One games, or any Xbox One DLC content going forward, just think of all the millions of games you could be playing anyways via other means regardless of it all. Seriously, it's honestly silly to even discuss in my opinion. When the servers are shut down, it just means you can't connect to Live. That's it. We'll talk about this again in a decade when the Xbox One has been hacked and the Xbox Two has been announced!

 

I'll grant you that. I was thinking about the time length myself when I started thinking about just how old the Xbox 360 is and how much time it easily has left even if Microsoft concludes support quicker than I would expect when I posted last night about how much life the 360 has left.

 

Maybe I'll soften my views and just try to be careful with how I make my purchases so I don't risk having a library of unplayed games someday that will be useless. Many of my games aren't things I'd be revisited anyways. But I just wish they'd at least partially pass the savings on to us if they're going to restrict what we do with our own property to help their balance sheet out.

 

I went down that route because it is actual history we can draw conclusions from. Anything else is pure speculation as there has been no announcement of any BC support. All of the information we have so far tells us that there won't be BC. But we do know that Xbox Live accounts will be compatible with both systems. I think the reason they didn't do BC was because they don't feel there is any real value in it, some customers think it's neat to have but mostly nobody uses it, and they want to avoid the situation they had with the 360 where they had partial BC and customers were confused about what games they could play on their 360. None of the reasons you presented would even fall on a top 5 list of reasons to take BC off the table IMO.

 

They've announced no backwards compatibility.

 

And I think there are plenty of good reasons for backwards compatibility and I think it was even more important this time around. But I think the changes in system architecture just made the feature prohibitively expensive. BC is a money maker and an attraction for the consumer but it can't unreasonably raise the price of the hardware itself.

 

And since you won't need two Xbox Live accounts like you said, we can strike that off as a reason why it's not here. And I'm rather skeptical that it's not here in order to protect future sales of the Xbox 360 and its accessories. And it not being here sure doesn't bring in more DLC revenue but rather decreases it from what it could be if Xbox One users had the 360 DLC library available to them. And his reason for games for two systems isn't clear to me. Nobody is going to be buying Game X for the 360 and Game X also for the Xbox One. It's one or the other, backwards compatibility or no backwards compatibility.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Atariboy

[moycon]

They've announced no backwards compatibility.

 

I was under the impression they stated an add on device would be available for $99 that would make the Xbox One BC with Xbox 360 games, was that just a false rumor? Why do I get the feeling we are getting a lot of false information filtered down to us right now?

[Hyper_Eye]

The only place I have seen that information is in the rumor mill. I can't recall seeing anything about this device in any of the articles that came after yesterday's reveal with hands-on and/or authorized information.

[Atariboy]

Yeah, it was a rumor floating around several weeks ago. The only thing I saw from Microsoft yesterday was confirmation that the Xbox One wouldn't play retail or digital Xbox 360 software (Although your media will be cross compatible like marketplace videos).

 

It's perhaps planned, but it's still just a rumor. And probably a dead rumor after going unmentioned yesterday although I suppose it might be being saved for E3.

[bennybingo]

I went down that route because it is actual history we can draw conclusions from. Anything else is pure speculation as there has been no announcement of any BC support. All of the information we have so far tells us that there won't be BC. But we do know that Xbox Live accounts will be compatible with both systems. I think the reason they didn't do BC was because they don't feel there is any real value in it, some customers think it's neat to have but mostly nobody uses it, and they want to avoid the situation they had with the 360 where they had partial BC and customers were confused about what games they could play on their 360. None of the reasons you presented would even fall on a top 5 list of reasons to take BC off the table IMO.

 

Historically, Xbox 360 had BC. The One does not, as it utilizes a blue ray player...that is not speculation. Buying an additional piece of hardware (if they even offer it) is yet another way to make MS more money.

 

As it stands right now, I cannot have 1 account on two systems at the same time...my only option is to go through the arduous process of logging out of one system and then logging my account back into the other system...it's a royal pain in the ass. I have 2 Xbox 360's in my house and need 2 live accounts in order to avoid this annoying process...just to watch Netflix in my living room after leaving the game room. I can't see how, basing things on "history" this is going to change for the better. It hasn't in all of the years that Xbox Live has been in existence.

 

As for MS determining that there is "no value" in BC... come on dude...what gives? Are you seriously trying to say that they could have possibly gotten that kind of feedback from a customer survey? It seems to me that you have clearly drank the MS fanboy kool-aid. Nothing I say will change your opinion, and vice versa. Just realize this...I own two 360's. I love that console. This is not clouding my logic though. So far, what I see from the Xbox One, it is not appealing to me in the least from a gaming perspective.

 

The fact that MS must really think their consumers are stupid...that makes me want it even less. Sadly, MS is correct...they have a large number of folks who will purchase whatever they release, no matter how much it sucks. These will be the same folks praising the new Xbox for its' ability to skype, play my already existing cable tv, and manage fantasy football rosters. I just want a game console that has cutting edge graphics, audio and games. Backwards compatibility would be a huge plus, as it would let me play my massive library of 360 games/DLC and not require two systems and XBL accounts. But I guess that has no value to anyone but me...right?

[Master Phruby]

I wonder why you guys aren't mad that the XBox One running Windows 8 at it's core?

 

On the positive side, since its using a x86 processor, any games that are created for the XBox One would be very easy to port to the PC. They might even be compatible out of the box! I see this as more games for the PC.

 

As for accounts, I read an announcement that said you can have multiple accounts on a XBox One share the same xbox live account. It isn't based on gamer tag anymore. You can also have up to five xbox live accounts for the price of one account/year subscription

[moycon]

It's perhaps planned, but it's still just a rumor. And probably a dead rumor after going unmentioned yesterday although I suppose it might be being saved for E3.

 

I hope so. Although in all honesty I think I'm going to use the method someone on AA mentioned (I think it was you Atariboy) and that is, when the announcement is made to shut down the servers, I will tie all my content to a 360 and then take it off line. Transfer the licence, and redownload all the DLC to another console, take it off line and repeat till all my consoles think they have the licence tied to them. After that I'll probably hack one and just play to my hearts content if I'm ever feeling nostalgia. Prediction is, I'll rarely if ever look back anyways, so it'll probably all for nothing.

[Hyper_Eye]

Historically, Xbox 360 had BC. The One does not, as it utilizes a blue ray player...that is not speculation. Buying an additional piece of hardware (if they even offer it) is yet another way to make MS more money.

 

As it stands right now, I cannot have 1 account on two systems at the same time...my only option is to go through the arduous process of logging out of one system and then logging my account back into the other system...it's a royal pain in the ass. I have 2 Xbox 360's in my house and need 2 live accounts in order to avoid this annoying process...just to watch Netflix in my living room after leaving the game room. I can't see how, basing things on "history" this is going to change for the better. It hasn't in all of the years that Xbox Live has been in existence.

 

You have to "log out" of one before you can log into the other? In other words you can't have two logged in at once? That I would agree with but you were not specific enough before for me to know that was what you meant. It appeared that you were saying that Xbox Live accounts are linked to a single machine which they are not. I don't think you should be able to play games on Xbox Live in multiple places using the same account. I do think you should be able to watch Netflix from multiple machines. I also think Netflix should not require an Xbox Live subscription. So I say make it a feature silver members can use and eliminate both issues. They won't do it of course.

 

As for MS determining that there is "no value" in BC... come on dude...what gives? Are you seriously trying to say that they could have possibly gotten that kind of feedback from a customer survey?

 

I think a lot of people will check the box expressing interest in BC. I also think for the first 6 months many of them will use it. Then I think pretty much nobody will use it. Most gamers do not care about older games. They do not buy new systems to play old games. They buy new systems to play new games. Gamers that really do care about old games play their old games on their old systems. In my "currently playing list" I have Psychonauts. I'm not playing it on 360. I am playing it on one of my original Xbox's. MS knows that the ramifications of leaving out BC are not as big a deal as people say they are. They know that because the 360 had half-assed BC and it still sold well. They know that because Sony dropped BC completely from a console that was released with support for it and still they sold millions of units after doing so. They know from the usage statistics they collect from their users which shows that a very very small percentage of 360 use is spent on original Xbox games. I think BC is a good thing and I would like all of the consoles to support it. I'm just calling it as I see it.

 

It seems to me that you have clearly drank the MS fanboy kool-aid. Nothing I say will change your opinion, and vice versa.

 

I have many game consoles including every Sega, Sony, and Microsoft console released in the last 30 or so years up to and including the Wii, Playstation 3, and Xbox. For the first time I think I may wait a few years before buying any of the next generation consoles. I think the Xbox One is uninspired and uninteresting. I'm not a fanboy and I don't like Kool-Aid. I do like taking in information and forming opinions though. Just because I have one that favors a certain brand's decision on a particular issue does not make me a fanboy. Way to write someone off when they disagree with you.

 

Just realize this...I own two 360's. I love that console. This is not clouding my logic though. So far, what I see from the Xbox One, it is not appealing to me in the least from a gaming perspective.

 

Like I said, find anywhere that I've shown any support for the Xbox One whatsoever. Stop making assumptions because I agree with this quote in its entirety.

 

The fact that MS must really think their consumers are stupid...that makes me want it even less. Sadly, MS is correct...they have a large number of folks who will purchase whatever they release, no matter how much it sucks. These will be the same folks praising the new Xbox for its' ability to skype, play my already existing cable tv, and manage fantasy football rosters. I just want a game console that has cutting edge graphics, audio and games. Backwards compatibility would be a huge plus, as it would let me play my massive library of 360 games/DLC and not require two systems and XBL accounts. But I guess that has no value to anyone but me...right?

 

My Xbox and 360 aren't going anywhere. I don't need BC to be sold. I do need the high-powered gaming console. That is what the Xbox brand started out as and what they delivered a second time with the 360 which had me buying one on day number one. Somewhere in the middle of the 360's lifetime their goals changed. Their perspective changed. Their design changed.

 

Ultimately I'm not terribly disappointed. I think it will take me until the next generation of consoles for me to finish my backlog as it stands.

[bennybingo]

Please feel free to read the massive post above...if anyone cares to...

 

I give up...you win...100+ internets. Just remember everyone:

• "Most gamers do not care about older games."
  

​So there you have it...BC is a moot point...history says so.

 

Thread win goes to Hyper_Eye!

[RARusk]

[Hyper_Eye]

I give up...you win...100+ internets. Just remember everyone:

• "Most gamers do not care about older games."
  

​So there you have it...BC is a moot point...history says so.

 

Thread win goes to Hyper_Eye!

 

Some people would make a counter argument, some would acknowledge good points, and then some deflect, slip in the point they want to make anyway but in a (not-successfully-)subtle way that avoids further discussion ("just remember everyone"), and then bow out (often with a bit of humor.) I stand by my statement that most people that play video games do not care about older games. I've played video games my whole life. A lot of other people I know play video games. The majority of them have no interest in most of the games I play and when they see any of them all they can talk about it is how unimpressive the graphics are. Playing old video games is a hobby itself separate and distinct from a general interest in video games held by the average video game consumer. We share that interest here and we look like a large crowd when you go to where we congregate. But even among us I think the number of people who actually takes advantage of backwards compatibility (barring the 7800) is fairly low.

[bennybingo]

Some people would make a counter argument, some would acknowledge good points, and then some deflect, slip in the point they want to make anyway but in a (not-successfully-)subtle way that avoids further discussion ("just remember everyone"), and then bow out (often with a bit of humor.) I stand by my statement that most people that play video games do not care about older games. I've played video games my whole life. A lot of other people I know play video games. The majority of them have no interest in most of the games I play and when they see any of them all they can talk about it is how unimpressive the graphics are. Playing old video games is a hobby itself separate and distinct from a general interest in video games held by the average video game consumer. We share that interest here and we look like a large crowd when you go to where we congregate. But even among us I think the number of people who actually takes advantage of backwards compatibility (barring the 7800) is fairly low.

Do you get in the last word much?

[moycon]

The Xbox 360 had BC, but you had to download individual files for each Xbox game you wanted to play.

There was never a need for a poll. MS could see exactly how many people were using this feature.

Wanna bet it wasn't very many people?

[Austin]

Wanna bet it wasn't very many people?

 

LOL, it may have been more had they actually managed to get a bigger majority of the library's *good games* working.

[moycon]

LOL, it may have been more had they actually managed to get a bigger majority of the library's *good games* working.

 

Right, because games like Morrowind, Halo 2 and Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic were such dogs. They emulated over half of the original library. I'm pretty sure they could gauge interest in BC based on what was released. It's sucks if you are a huge fan of old games. My advice to people is, don't buy the latest system, if you are mainly interested in older games, buy it for the latest and greatest.