Elansar Jaguar

[Clay]

Wow, 3 people voted too expensive! I do not see any new Jaguar cartridge games being less than that.

[Hyper_Eye]

This is a little off-topic but I notice you are releasing for Mac and Android. Given that you have put in the work to support those platforms why not a Linux release? Your code certainly seems portable enough and supporting the previously mentioned platforms means a lot of the work necessary to support Linux is already done. If you need any assistance with that feel free to contact me. Anyway, I will definitely pick this up for Jag when it releases. I will buy a second copy if it finds its way to Linux. Keep up the good work!

[CrazyChris]

I would like a box and manual, but it would depend on the cost.

Edited June 5, 2013 by CrazyChris

[Guitari]

Like others, I prefer a box but would go with whatever gets produced. However I'd be peaved if the product gets released again later with a box and I have to buy the lot just to get a box. So, I say decide one way or the other, don't do different runs comprising different components.

[Gunstar]

I'm really surprised at the results so far - I always assumed a cart just -had- to be in a cardboard box with cardboard insert and black & white manual to be accepted... seems that's not the case.

 

Well don't take it too far and assume that not having a box doesn't matter. This poll is deaply flawed and doesn't show all the truth, I haven't even voted becuase I don't like any of the choices! I can only speak for myself, but I would definately prefer a box, or a case of some type over just a loose cartridge. I will buy a release that is only cartridge if it's that or no game at all, but I will consider it a low-grade release, similar to B&C beta releases. A quality release, to me, is either a box with insert, or a clam shell case like was done with Mad Bodies and KA Aircars, and I think I actually like the clam shell cases better, becuase they are durable, but you still get the box art too. I will be VERY disappointed if Elensar is released without some box or case. But it won't necessarily keep me from buying it (I may get the Falcon version instead).

[Gunstar]

Wow, 3 people voted too expensive! I do not see any new Jaguar cartridge games being less than that.

 

Certainly no regular Jaguar cartridge could be cheaper, but this game is using the Jagtopus cart, IIRC, and isn't the whole point of the Jagtopus cart to make it less expensive? I'd think with a Jagtopus, that we could get the game with some sort of box/case for only a little more, or else what's the point of Jagtopus?

 

Maybe we need to look back at history? How they all said that CD media would make the games cheaper, but then they turned out to be just as expensive, if not more, than cartridge games cost?

 

At least new Jag CD releases are cheaper than new cartridge releases (using traditional PCB).

Edited June 8, 2013 by Gunstar

[sh3-rg]

Well don't take it too far and assume that not having a box doesn't matter. This poll is deaply flawed and doesn't show all the truth, I haven't even voted becuase I don't like any of the choices! I can only speak for myself, but I would definately prefer a box, or a case of some type over just a loose cartridge. I will buy a release that is only cartridge if it's that or no game at all, but I will consider it a low-grade release, similar to B&C beta releases. A quality release, to me, is either a box with insert, or a clam shell case like was done with Mad Bodies and KA Aircars, and I think I actually like the clam shell cases better, becuase they are durable, but you still get the box art too. I will be VERY disappointed if Elensar is released without some box or case. But it won't necessarily keep me from buying it (I may get the Falcon version instead).

 

Thanks for the info, this kind of feedback is much more useful than a tick in a box, cheers!

[sh3-rg]

isn't the whole point of the Jagtopus cart to make it less expensive? I'd think with a Jagtopus, that we could get the game with some sort of box/case for only a little more, or else what's the point of Jagtopus?

 

It makes things less expensive in terms of the hours/labour the person producing the carts has to put in, but the raw materials (ie the flash cartridge) are likely more expensive than buying old stock boards and eproms (unless jagware goes all out and orders 1000 units at once or something crazy like that, but as I've not priced this method up personally I do not know for sure and would never have the spare time or patience to produce something in such a way). So it's swings and roundabouts.

 

Take a look at my video, it illustrates the point nicely. 4 Jagtopus cartridges erased, programmed and tested in around 75 seconds. Then again, take a glimpse of the programmer being used and some of the components - the design and creation of such a device doesn't come without a huge cost in terms of money and time, without that it's slower BJL programming and manual testing.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYra6bheGwk

 

Also, ask Seb/Removers or the Skunk III guys about how much an Atari-style box can add to a project - it can easily escalate the production cost by much more than a figure people might think is about right when picking out of the air.

 

Maybe we need to look back at history? How they all said that CD media would make the games cheaper, but then they turned out to be just as expensive, if not more, than cartridge games cost?

 

Are we talking modern disc-based games vs old cartridge games? I think $60.00 is RRP for a modern console release these days and I think that's also the standard price for SNES and Genesis games 22 years ago. Using this inflation calculator, it reckons the equivalent price of that $60.00 game back then is over $100.00 now, so you could say the price of games has come down. Then some time later 3DO/PS/Saturn games came in at $50.00 so were already lowering or actually remaining steady in real terms :0)

 

Doesn't really matter to me, it's very rare I buy anything day one - Skyrim was the last (I ended up with two copies actually, not wanting to miss out!) and The Last Of Us will be the only one I go for I imagine until the next generation of machines pwns all my money.

 

Sorry for going a bit OT there :0)

[CrazyChris]

Why not offer it with a box an without?

[Willard]

as many people have already mentioned i think the cost of the box would determine whether or not it is a desireable option, but that it would be preffered if it is not too dramatic of an increase.

 

personally i do not see why producing boxes is all that big of a deal, you can make them yourselves for like $1-$2 a box of the same paperboard/cardstock thickness that pretty much all post-atari releases have featured and there've been no real complaints about them. yea it might take you 10 minutes to cut a box but if you spent the time to program the game it doesn't seem so bad in comparison

[sh3-rg]

yea it might take you 10 minutes to cut a box but if you spent the time to program the game it doesn't seem so bad in comparison

 

10 minutes a box - that's over two working days when you look at a modest 100 cart run. Also, coding is fun - cutting out cardboard... not so much :0) I think people demand a higher quality collectible than home printed/chopped up with scissors stuff, don't they? I mean that was OK on a release like Beebris that cost £10, but for a big cart release it seems a bit lame.

 

Gaztee had some decent boxes made. I think there were sizable initial setup costs and he sank a lot of cash into it.. far as I know he's not had his investment returned from doing all those boxes (I could be wrong).

[Willard]

you dont have to use scissors, was more meaning a paper scorer since they're all straight cuts (alright so you do need a corner rounder too for the flaps). you can do a suprisingly good job with cheap resources if you give it a serious chance. in all irony of all the stuff we've done i was incredibly pissed about the one thing we actually contracted out. doing it yourself also allows you to prototype your boxes a little better so you can see how the colors show on the actual paper before you have them all run and you don't have to worry about the number of modifications you make.

 

i agree cutting cardstock/paperboard .etc isn't super-exciting but if it's part of getting your release out there and you want to see it in a box then it's all part of the experience. if it's not all that important to you or if you'd rather pay a little more and not worry about it yourself then it's not worth the hassle of course.

 

anyway that was just a suggestion with a general quote on the particular method in case it hadn't been considered yet. personally i'll probably pick up the elansar project regardless once it is availble to order.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Willard

[+CyranoJ]

yea it might take you 10 minutes to cut a box but if you spent the time to program the game it doesn't seem so bad in comparison

 

Well, that's Blackout explained nicely.

[Orion_]

I don't think some people got it, so let me explain,

it's not really about the price, it's about doing everything myself.

This is an homebrew release, made from A to Z by a single person, and some people just ask for professional high quality full boxed game...

I could choose the easy way and sell the downloadable rom for people who own skunk.

But I choose to invest more than 2000 euros buying flashcart pcb, plastic shell, stickers, and so on...

Flashing each pcb with the rom, putting every of the 100 cartridge one by one in their shell, packing 100 parcel to dispatch to the world, etc...

Adding to do the box on top of all that is just too much for me sorry..

Also, the jagtopus may be cheaper, but I'm not going to offer the countless hours I've spent making this game (over 2 years now) and porting this to Jaguar on a 4meg cartridge was quite a challenge.

[Gunstar]

Well, thanks for the peek at what it takes to produce a box. But as I stated before, I don't personally require a cardboard box, I just don't want a loose cartridge release, surely, even if it costs the same or more than a box, a clam-shell case is easy to put a cartridge into without folding, and covers can be printed easily by one person and make sure the colors work right, etc. for the cover sleeve of a clam-shell case. It's just as easy as CD game cases... http://betaphasegames.com/Aircars%20Jaguar.html

Edited June 9, 2013 by Gunstar

[+CyranoJ]

a clam-shell case is easy to put a cartridge into without folding, and covers can be printed easily by one person and make sure the colors work right, etc. for the cover sleeve of a clam-shell case. It's just as easy as CD game cases...

 

Ah good! If it's that easy nobody making games need bother and all the people buying them can do it themselves! Excellent idea!

[JagChris]

I actually would have no way of doing it myself.

[sh3-rg]

Ah good! If it's that easy nobody making games need bother and all the people buying them can do it themselves! Excellent idea!

 

I think what he's saying is producing a slip for one box is much the same as for another, and he's right. I think we've got some good info from this poll and some things are being looked at that seem promising.

[Willard]

@ gunstar i personally like the clamshells myself, especially when it's for a Disc and Cart release they fit rather nicely in there and make for a nice package.

 

for cart only releases some added padding really seems desireable (as we learned from KA aircars), that could probably be solved with some clever use of liquid foam to make nice professional cart holder that you could patch in with a double-sided tape strip... i imagine that the process would take a little work to figure out but wouldn't be that difficult once you get down to it. just haven't had time myself lately.

[+orpheuswaking]

A clamshell with a slipcover would be a welcome addition to the release. The case is what I liked most about my Mad Bodies (before I sold it). Sure it would be cool to have all of our Jaguar games fit neatly on a shelf and all be in the same sized box, but as a collector for the Atari 8 bit machines I am used to having many different sizes of box and packaging.

[Gunstar]

@ gunstar i personally like the clamshells myself, especially when it's for a Disc and Cart release they fit rather nicely in there and make for a nice package.

 

for cart only releases some added padding really seems desireable (as we learned from KA aircars), that could probably be solved with some clever use of liquid foam to make nice professional cart holder that you could patch in with a double-sided tape strip... i imagine that the process would take a little work to figure out but wouldn't be that difficult once you get down to it. just haven't had time myself lately.

 

I totally agree about the extra padding, i added in some foam myself, surrounding the cartridge, cut to fit. I never did get to buy Mad Bodies, I think they used some padding of some sort, didn't they? Anyone?

[+remowilliams]

The case is what I liked most about my Mad Bodies (before I sold it).

 

It definitely is more entertaining than the cartridge inside.

[Gunstar]

Ah good! If it's that easy nobody making games need bother and all the people buying them can do it themselves! Excellent idea!

 

I'd want a clamshell case provided, since I've no idea where to get them myself, but if it's still too much trouble for the developer to print sleeves for all the cases, I suppose I'd be willing to print my own with a provided case art i can download and print myself, but I only have a lowly $25 inkjet printer, and I'd rather have a sleeve that was printed out on a laser printer or something.

 

The problem is that, I think, most of the purchasers are collectors of one degree or another, and there needs to be a standard. Everybody who buys printing their own cover art leaves no quality standard. So i guess it comes down to the quality of release the developer wants. If you want to release your game with just a cartridge and manual, after all the work and effort already put into the game, then that is your paragative. If i was releasing a game for sale (not including free-ware releases), I'd want it to be the absolute best I could do for the game, from cartridge, to manual and case.

 

I can understand the time and effort for cardboard boxes with inserts, but if we are now talking about clam-shell casing, there far less effort in producing them, with or with out cover art, so has the argument for cartridge only now switched too production cost? how much does a clamshell case cost if you bought 100 or so?

[Gunstar]

A clamshell with a slipcover would be a welcome addition to the release. The case is what I liked most about my Mad Bodies (before I sold it). Sure it would be cool to have all of our Jaguar games fit neatly on a shelf and all be in the same sized box, but as a collector for the Atari 8 bit machines I am used to having many different sizes of box and packaging.

 

I'm ok with the clam shells not being the same size as my other Jaguar boxes, as long as they are the same height as my DVD cases I have all my Jag CD's in now, so they fit nicely on the shelf with the CD games, with all boxed games on another shelf above or below. Jaguar owners don't have them all uniform anyway, from cartridge box, to large CD box, to several CD games coming only in the carboard folder or jewel case. But all official releases had some sort of box or case, except ICD Aircars with it's box insert only. Even Cybermorph boxes are for sale if you want a box for it (pack-in version).

[Gunstar]

It definitely is more entertaining than the cartridge inside.

 

yikes. is the game that bad? I did have a chance to play it for a bit about ten years ago at MGC show, and I know I didn't care for the game play, but I'm not sure how far along the game was in development at the time...I figured it would have gotten better, but maybe that was the final i played and the release was just delayed for years and years?