Help getting started with C64 gaming

[Atariboy]

Been contemplating this recently but not exactly sure what model of C64 I should be looking for.

 

My only use for it will be gaming and likely 99% of that time will only be with arcade style gaming and largely only with games that utilize external game controllers instead of the keyboard. And I believe I can just use my 2600 compatible controllers so I'm all set with controllers.

 

And I don't want to mess around with 30 year old disks. The only game medium I want to deal with are cartridges so a cartridge slot is mandatory if there are any models without one. And I know that limits my selection a bit with games so I'd like advice on something that would enable me to load disk images stored on something like a SD card to expand my range of games.

 

I want something that's user friendly that doesn't require 1980's computer skills. Seems like there's at least one decent option out there in the form of the 1541 Ultimate II. Is that likely what I want to look towards acquiring? Any issues using what appears to be a European produced product on an American C64 hooked up to a NTSC CRT? Looks like I wouldn't even need any original cartridges with this particular accessory.

 

And I'd like Magic Voice. Not sure of its rarity but Wizard of Wor is one of my favorites and the C64 port looks excellent so it would likely be my first cartridge and I'd like the voices to be there. Is that an economical accessory or rare (Seems unclear to me after searching around for several minutes and none seem available on eBay which isn't a good sign)? And if it's actually economical, can it be used with any C64?

 

And composite video seems standard and I want to just hook it up to the same Trinitron that I play all my classic systems on. Any issues with that plan that I don't see that necessitate going with a old C64 monitor instead? And since it's going to be a game console, a small footprint would be appreciated.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Atariboy

[R.Bear]

I bought a Commodore 64C recently and it works just fine, from what I've read it's more reliable than the originals but it does have a revised SID chip which doesn't sound quite as good as the older ones audio wise.

 

The first thing you'll want to do when you get a C64 is remove that silly cardboard RF shield, I removed it from mine as it traps heat inside the machine and can cause hardware failures over time.

 

The composite video output looks really bad using a Sega Master System cable, but I found out recently that they have different pinouts (I could use the computer by swapping the audio and video cables when plugging them in to the TV), but that still resulted in a bad picture.... so I'm using the C64C's RF out at the moment which actually looks better... That seems to be working fine for me right now though, the picture quality isn't too bad.

 

I'm assuming the Composite out will work correctly with a cable actually designed for a C64...

 

Program loading wise, there is the option of buying an SD Card Reader by buying a SD2IEC http://www.c64-wiki....ndex.php/SD2IEC

 

I don't have one of those yet and my C64 just came with the tape drive, so I'm stuck using that for now, but that will change soon.

Edited August 12, 2013 by SkullBlade

[TMR]

And I believe I can just use my 2600 compatible controllers so I'm all set with controllers.

 

Yes, your 2600 compatible controllers will work fine.

 

I want something that's user friendly that doesn't require 1980's computer skills. Seems like there's at least one decent option out there in the form of the 1541 Ultimate II. Is that likely what I want to look towards acquiring? Any issues using what appears to be a European produced product on an American C64 hooked up to a NTSC CRT?

 

i'll always recommend the 1541 Ultimate 2 over the cheaper solutions like SD2IEC because the other options are nowhere near as compatible. To my knowledge at least the 1541U2 itself works happily with NTSC, but you may have problems with software because a lot of the best stuff (mid 1980s onwards) was written for PAL and it's a lottery as to if they'll work, glitch or just crash when run on NTSC.

 

The first wave of cartridges from Commodore should be fine, the second wave from Ocean, Domark and others will have issues and most of the recent releases work PAL/NTSC unless otherwise stated. =-)

 

Not sure of its rarity but Wizard of Wor is one of my favorites and the C64 port looks excellent so it would likely be my first cartridge and I'd like the voices to be there.

 

Wizard Of War is apparently quite uncommon (i'm not a collector so have to rely on other folks' websites) but if you can get one it'll run on any C64 since there's no model without a cartridge port. i have no previous experience with Magic Voice to comment though...

 

And composite video seems standard and I want to just hook it up to the same Trinitron that I play all my classic systems on. Any issues with that plan that I don't see that necessitate going with a old C64 monitor instead?

 

Composite video should be fine for gaming, although it's always possible that there's something odd about composite on NTSC i've never heard about from here... but if there's issues, as long as the machine isn't one of the oldest models there's an s-video line in the monitor port as well.

 

And since it's going to be a game console, a small footprint would be appreciated.

 

It's a taller case and the same width, but the original breadbin design is about two centimetres shorter from back to front than the C64C so that'd be the smallest footprint.

Edited August 12, 2013 by TMR

[Atariboy]

The Digital Press entry for it made it sound very common but it does seem like Wizard of Wor is quite rare if the lack of any for sale on Ebay is any indication. But with the cartridge compatibility of the 1541 Ultimate II, it appears that I don't even have to collect any original cartridges to be able to enjoy C64 games on original hardware.

 

Thanks for the answers.

[Mayhem]

Wizard of Wor is uncommon, I believe I rated it 4 on the scale (yeah I'm in charge of the Commodore sections). It does turn up in the UK perhaps more than the US, so you may need to look abroad to find one. Note the rarity scale is borderless, if it's available and out there, it's out there regardless of where it is.

 

As for verdict, yes WoW on the C64 is an excellent conversion, and perhaps better than the arcade imo, as it's a lot more far and balanced. You won't be struggling by screen three to stay alive, but it's certainly no pushover either.

 

In regards to the original post, if you limit yourself to just cartridges, then you'll only experience about 1% of the C64's catalog. A solution such as the 1541U2 or SD2IEC would be a much better suggestion.

[carlsson]

1541U2 has the best compatibility, but also costs nearly thrice of what an uIEC/SD or other sd2iec device costs. I suppose there may be US resellers of the 1541U2, otherwise you will risk customs charges on top of the selling price and overseas shipping. In either case, there exists useful menu driven software that you can install and not have to mess around a lot with disk commands to navigate, mount and load files.

 

You may also consider one of the EasyFlash cartridges. Those used to be a little tricky to program (required a large storage device like the sd2iec or similar units), but I see that the EF3 has a micro USB connector which can be used while the cartridge is inserted into the C64 to reprogram it. Of course it "only" holds 7 x 1 megabyte of programs, unlike a SD card that easily can hold 2 GB and much more. I believe the 1541U2 has some EasyFlash emulation as well, so the choice of device depends on your budget and exactly how (much) you will use it.

 

As for composite video, I can only speak from a PAL perspective but I find it well beyond acceptable. I know the Master System and Genesis/Megadrive have different pinouts, and that you might be tapping the wrong pin (luma only?) if you get a very bad picture. A regular composite video cable could be bought or assembled if you have average soldering skills, and has the bonus that if correctly assembled, it will work with the VIC-20, various Atari computers and a few more.

 

I agree that the C64C is a bit more stable, at least it doesn't break down due to bad PLA as often as the breadboxes do. The power supply to a C64C also tends to be more stable than the older PSU's. While they're pin compatible, the later power supplies tend to a bit more heavy duty and last longer.

 

Like TMR, I can't give any advice on the Magic Voice. I'm afraid it might be item that takes the longest to find. In the mean time, you can enjoy some of the games using software speech synthesis, perhaps the most famous one being Impossible Mission. Or for that matter if you like to play with Basic, you can load S.A.M. and form your own sentences.

[Atariboy]

Sounds like this is going to take a bit more research to figure out and then more when I start picking things up. My pre Windows computer skills are almost non-existent

 

If Magic Voice isn't dirt common and is actually rare, I'll probably just forget about it unless I stumble across a deal someday. Voice isn't critical to playing Wizard of Wor and opinions on this particular accessory seem more negative than positive from the little I could find about it. And I could always fire up the arcade version if I wanted well done voice (Or at least I think it's well done and fits the atmosphere of the game to a tee).

 

In regards to the original post, if you limit yourself to just cartridges, then you'll only experience about 1% of the C64's catalog. A solution such as the 1541U2 or SD2IEC would be a much better suggestion.

 

Yeah, I don't want to limit myself to just the cartridge library. So I'm interested in a solution since I don't want to deal with an old disk drive or disks.

 

Sounds like I have some choices in that area.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Atariboy

[Jess Ragan]

If you limit yourself to cartridges you won't have a lot of games to play. Much of the software that even approached NES quality was created for the disk drive, which quickly became a ubiquitous part of the Commodore 64 experience. The software on cartridge was typically limited to simple pre-crash titles and some really awful experimental games like Frogmaster. (Did anyone ever figure out what the hell Commodore was trying to accomplish with this?)

 

I've got a Commodore 64, uh, somewhere, but its bread box design is horribly dated. If you can swing it, shoot for a 64C (with its white wedge design first popularized by the Amiga 500) or go all out and get yourself a Commodore 128. It's cross-compatible with the Commodore 64, is a more capable machine thanks to the added memory, and looks damn spiffy on a desktop.

[Atariboy]

It's stuff like Wizard of Wor that most interests me. So pre-crash software isn't such a bad thing. Not interested in text adventures, old strategy games, old flight simulators, RPG's, etc. It's the stuff that with a bit of prettying up would've been at home in an early 80's arcade that interests me.

 

I don't want to limit myself to just cartridges. I want to be able to enjoy disk games as well. I just don't want to deal with disks so that's why one of my questions was about the alternatives created by hobbyist in recent years that will allow me to enjoy that segment of the library without actually dealing with an ancient disk drive and old disks.

 

What's horribly dated about it? If it's something like the external styling, it's likely a plus from my point of view if it looks older.

 

And C128 sounds interesting but I wonder if I'd use any of its additional capabilities. I suspect that C64 games don't utilize the additional memory it offers and since it's the library of arcade style gaming on the C64 that I'm after here, I'm not sure that matters. And it would have to support the 1541U2 and need to still have Atari controller ports and a cartridge slot (Wikipedia says it has all C64 I/O ports; does that mean it does?).

 

Are there good arcade style games for the C128 or CP/M modes? And are there alternatives to disks for those two formats? I really don't want to deal with 1980's era magnetic media and drives with moving parts.

 

Edit: It doesn't appear like I'd miss out on anything significant where gaming is concerned by not having a CP/M mode judging by this thread.

 

http://www.lemon64.c...06d63bee3f611ec

 

And it doesn't appear like the C128 mode offers anything very compelling where gaming is concerned.

 

http://www.digitpres...odore-128-games

Edited August 13, 2013 by Atariboy

[Jess Ragan]

Yeah, I just found that DP thread myself. Where gaming is concerned, it looks like the Commodore 128 doesn't have much to offer. Maybe you'd be better off with the 64C after all! (I still have a soft spot for the 128, though. A neighbor had it and I thought it was the coolest thing ever!)

[carlsson]

A C128 also takes a lot more space than either C64 model does, and more cumbersome to change cartridge if you would deal with multiple cartridges. While a handful C64 games can detect running on a C128 and somehow utilize more memory for enhanced effects, the selection is not big enough. Of course if you stumble across a dirt cheap C128, it can be good to know it runs (virtually?) every C64 game.

 

If I were you, I'd aim for a C64C. It probably is the cheapest to get, and more reliable than the older breadbox style. Since you have no plans at handling 5.25" floppy disks, I suppose 1541U2 is the device for you, although it will set you back $140+ or so. From a technical point of view, the difference between the cheaper and more expensive SD solutions is that the ones in the $50-60 range simulate the response from a floppy drive, while the more expensive 1541U2 and any similar devices (Chameleon?) emulate the floppy drive in its entirety, including CPU, VIA, ROM, RAM. The price difference to a big deal boils down to more expensive micro controller chips used on the more comprehensive devices.

 

For simple games using standard loading routines, there won't be any difference, but for games using a custom turbo loader that actually reprograms the floppy drive on the fly is where the lower end devices don't recognize the commands and loading will fail. The sd2iec and uIEC/SD series detect a few well known turbo loaders and can respond to those (JiffyDOS, Final Cartridge, Action Replay 1581 loader, Dreamload etc) but can not recognize every different turbo loader.

Edited August 13, 2013 by carlsson

[TMR]

I don't want to limit myself to just cartridges. I want to be able to enjoy disk games as well. I just don't want to deal with disks so that's why one of my questions was about the alternatives created by hobbyist in recent years that will allow me to enjoy that segment of the library without actually dealing with an ancient disk drive and old disks.

 

In that case, 1541 Ultimate 2 - getting an SD2IEC variant is going to involve faffing around, finding a version of a game that works on the device, navigating to and mounting the disk image (even with the handy menus doing the rounds now that's still more work than the 1541U2) and so on.

 

Disks are surprisingly robust though, many of mine still function a quarter of a century down the line. =-)

 

What's horribly dated about it? If it's something like the external styling, it's likely a plus from my point of view if it looks older.

 

The older model is referred to as the "beige breadbin" because... well, it's a beige colour and looks a bit like a breadbin; the same shape of case was originally used on the VIC 20 in cream and went on to surround the C16's innards in black. It's a bit chunky and prolonged typing is uncomfortable for some people, but it isn't that bad looking a case and there are certainly worse out there from the same era.

 

And C128 sounds interesting but I wonder if I'd use any of its additional capabilities. I suspect that C64 games don't utilize the additional memory it offers and since it's the library of arcade style gaming on the C64 that I'm after here, I'm not sure that matters.

 

 

You're probably better off just going for a C64 yes, there aren't many C128-specific games out there and i can only think of three arcade-style titles off the top of my head (Last V8, Stratton and Kikstart, the latter of which has since been modified to run on the C64) and the five Andrew Braybrook games that support C128 2MHz mode from C64 mode.

 

The C128 is a lovely system to program on and my main dev machine for about a decade was a C128D because the 2MHz mode made long assemblies or crunches go by faster and the keyboard is fantastic.

[carmel_andrews]

You might also want to get yourself either the official or third party IO devices (i.e tape decks or disk drives), if you want to play original software programs that is

 

If your'e getting the official (i.e CBM) IO devices, get yourself jiffydos if it's a disk drive, you won't need to moddy the tape deck since most software houses used their own turbo loading routines (to speed up tape loads)

[RobertB]

Been contemplating this recently but not exactly sure what model of C64 I should be looking for.

Whichever model of C64 that you decide upon, I would suggest getting a heavy-duty C64 power supply; you cannot trust the old, low-powered C64 p.s.'s... when they fail, they will fry the chips in the computer. If you can't get a heavy-duty C64 p.s., then find a C128 p.s. and change the square connector to that of a C64's DIN connector; then you can use that p.s.. Another p.s. option - if you know a tech who is handy, then he can build you a C64 p.s. using modern components for the necessary 5VDC and 9VAC. Finally, if you are dead-set on using the original p.s., then you'd need a Computer Saver circuit, such as the one built by technician Ray Carlsen; that circuit will stop the 5VDC from over-volting should the original p.s. fail.

Also, I'd suggest heat-sinking the hottest-running chips in the C64, like the SID, the PLA, and the 6510.

 

Then your C64 will last longer,

Robert Bernardo

Fresno Commodore User Group

http://videocam.net.au/fcug

[Atariboy]

Can anyone direct to me to some Retrobright information? Specifically, information on sealing plastic afterwards.

 

I've read a lot about Retrobright over the years but never seen much about sealing it to protect the appearance afterwards. Not going to be much point in bothering with it if it's going to look ugly again five years later.

 

Whichever model of C64 that you decide upon, I would suggest getting a heavy-duty C64 power supply; you cannot trust the old, low-powered C64 p.s.'s... when they fail, they will fry the chips in the computer. I

 

Thanks for the warning, I'll be sure to try to track down something appropriate that isn't a ticking time bomb.

 

I should be able to apply some additional heat sinks after tracking down a good diagram that tells me what is what inside. But it will probably be pretty rare for this to be on more than an hour at a time so I'm wondering if you think it's still an important precaution under those conditions?

 

This won't be getting heavy use like it would've seen when new. It will be like a classic car that just gets taken out on a nice weekend afternoon on occasion.

 

You might also want to get yourself either the official or third party IO devices (i.e tape decks or disk drives), if you want to play original software programs that is

 

The only original media I want to mess with are cartridges. I'll be picking up something else to allow me to load disk images from modern media instead of dealing with a old disk drive and disks. Should be more reliable in the long run, much more convenient, and cheaper. And it will allow me to run cartridges that are either difficult to find, expensive, or both.

 

If a drive has any moving parts, I only want to deal with things from the 2000's. Only the Sega Saturn has became an exception to that. Even my Playstation dates from the early 2000's. Was the redesigned PSOne model that I bought when they hit $50 new a decade or so back. Stuff like Sega CD I stick with emulation these days after bad experiences. Moving parts, plastic gears, belts, high speeds, and so on are just trouble as electronics age as far as I'm concerned.

 

Plus, I rather like all these re-programmable multicarts like Cuttle Carts and Everdrives that are available for home consoles. So I may as well start off with the closest equivalent to one of those for the C64 world like the 1541 Ultimate II.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Atariboy

[+wood_jl]

Long-time Atari8 user who really enjoys the C64, as well. Now, tons of opinions here in this thread - some I agree with, some I don't. I make no claims as to being knowledgeable about the C64, but I'll relate my own opinions and experiences, and you (of course!) are free to dismiss them as bullshit, at will. I only submit these opinions for consideration, along with all the others.

 

1) The best thing I like about the C64 is how similar it is (overall; let's not get technical here) to the Atari 400/800/XL/XE. We can spend weeks arguing specifics, but at the end of the day, they're in the same category to me, but a little bit different, and that's what I love about it, the most. Hell, a lot of the games LOOK the same, anyway. As well, the greater success in the marketplace of the C64 meant that titles continued to come out later for the C64 than the Atari8. After software houses dropped the Atari8, they continued to support the C64 for a time. I was pissed back in the day. Fortuntately, some of the software houses supported the Atari ST, but that's irrelevant. The C64 got software support up to the end of the 8-bit era. As an Atari8 owner, it was kind of fun to go back and play some of the last 8-bit titles that I didn't get to play on the Atari, in the same 8-bit glory.

 

2) The thing about the power supply dangers is no bullshit. The standard C64 power supply brick in the U.S. (it's a black rectangular ribbed unit) is a complete el-cheapo piece of shit. It's not a question of IF it will fail, but WHEN. When I first got into Commodore, I bought some Ebay systems and it worked fine. I was surprised how hot it ran, and it did go out, and I foolishly used it to take out my 2 C64s and my VIC-20. Now, it's time for an aside - a sidebar point about the VIC 20 and C64 power supplies.

 

The VIC-20 came in two flavors: early and late. As a new-to-Commodore guy, the later VIC-20 seemed more attractive, as it uses the same power supply as the C64. That is to say, that the early VIC-20 did not. The early VIC-20 had a "2-prong" power supply, while the later VIC-20 shared the DIN pinout of the Commodore 64. The Commodore 64 (naturally) has a greater power requirement than the VIC-20. So what this means, is that you can use the C64 power supply to power the VIC-20 (the later one with the identical power jack, not the early 2-prong one). Since we all have limited desk space and power outlets, how nice to have a power supply that feeds both C64 and VIC-20. Swapping out units is a snap!

 

One day, my C64 "randomly" fried. Like a dumbass, I then tried the other C64. I fried it, too, unbknownst to my dumbass. Unsure (of anything other than being dumbass), I decided to try the VIC. I fried all 3 in the same day, within a few minutes of each other. I got pissed and decided to sell-out (or throw out) Commodore. Then I missed it! I got back into it, but THIS TIME with some serious Power Supply Firepower. There are at least 3 ways you can go.

 

a) Get a CPS-10 (or similar) aftermarket power supply. These were originally (I think) offered by "Phoenix" or "Estes" but later by whomever bought whomever. They're not cheap. Here are a couple of examples I bought, and NOT cheap, but going rate:

 

 

 

 

...and here's a couple more that OTHER people bought....

 

 

 

.....so you can see they don't give these reliable units away. I suspect most C64 users are sitting on ticking time bombs like I was.

 

 

b) Get an "whatever-brand" aftermarket C64 power supply. In my case, I bought one from "Suntron" that appears to be well-ventilated. Don't know if it's hogwash or not, but seems to work and vent well.......

 

 

c) Get an adaptor cable, that allows you to use a real Commodore 128 power supply, which is much more durable, robust, and less-prone to failure. Although I have no C128 power supplies, I have a couple of these puppies.....

 

 

.....and that makes it really easy!!!!

 

These puppies are still on Ebay as of today, here......

 

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 380496892405

 

And as mentioned, any will provide reliable power for a Vic-20 (if later generation with DIN power input and not 2-prong) in the future!

 

3) The Commodore 128 is a waste of time, as far as retrogaming and retro-collecting goes, unless you grew up with one and the nostalgia is there for you. While I was *insanely* jealous as an Atari8 user that "we" got no such equivalent, the fact of the matter is that this thing got NO software support, and is a big space-consuming bastard. I don't consider it "pretty," either. You'll be playing C64 games on it, so why not play them on a C64?

 

4) "Breadbin" vs. Commodore 64C: I understand the keyboard of the C64C is improved, but what an ugly, C128-looking thing it is! Plus, who really types that much, anymore? The Commodore nameplate is reduced to a printed-on sticker, and located right where the sweaty wrist of the typist will wear the label all to hell. I have never heard and claims as to improved reliability, and I'd have to see some facts to believe that. To me, the beige "breadbox" of the original C64 captures the magic, and the redesign of the C64C is outside this envelope. To each his own. The standard power supply for the C64C looks (in the U.S.) JUST LIKE the piece of shit that was responsible for trashing so many C64s, but it's WHITE instead of BLACK. Same Trojan Ribbed design, and I have no knowledge of this alleged increased reliability. I could be wrong, of course.

 

5) The best kick-ass monitor cable in the Commodore 64 world is on Ebay, right now.

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 380546688884 Get one (or 2) while you still can.

 

6) The 1541 Ultimate 2- while expensive - is worth every penny. You can load normally-slow-loading cassette tape images through DMA which makes them fast like a cartridge!!!! You can load anything!!! You can play anything!!! This is 100% compatible with all the disc images, etc. I know there are some cheaper alternatives, but why waste your time? This is the ultimate in convenience and compatibilty. Decide it's not for you later? NO TROUBLE selling it for a large recoup (if not more) on your expense for the thing in the first place. Look at "sold" listings for 1541 Ultimate.

 

An ideal, modern C64 system isn't too cheap. It's going to require at least one sort-of expensive peripheral or add-on. Thank heaven that (1) people are talented and motivated enought to create these things, and (2) I can still get them in 2013. Who knows for how much longer, so hit it now.

[carlsson]

Did the C64G ever get released for NTSC? I suppose the "Aldi" model as sold by the German supermarket chain never made it to the US. Both those represent C64C motherboards in light grey breadbin cases. Then of course comes the matter of 6581 (old models) or 8580 (newer models) SID. The main difference between those except for operating at different voltages so not swapable, is how they handle the filters. Each 6581 chip tends to have its own filter specs while 8580 chips are more uniform and easier for musicians to predict how it would sound. In the camp of SID musicians, I think the preference is quite evenly split between those, so there is no clear answer which one is the "right" one although of course the older models with 6581 are the original ones.

 

PLA chips do break often and for no reason, perhaps related with bad power supplies but I strongly think those are separate causes. When this chip breaks, often you only get a black screen and might think the whole computer is beyond repair. There are some replacement solutions for a broken PLA, both cheap that may do more harm than good and more expensive ones that will last. While I'm no expert in the field, I have read and heard that PLA failures on newer motherboards as in C64C and onwards are very rare, while they happen more often than you might think in older breadboxes. See also Ray Carlsen's repair articles as a source of common faults on each model.

 

By the way, if one has a C64 that doesn't power on, one way to check if it is a PLA issue is to rapidly power on and off for perhaps 5-10 times. Sometimes the computer will spring to life, and if it does you know you should be looking for a PLA replacement chip. It can be good for the OP to know in case he gets a machine that after a month suddenly doesn't start anymore.

Edited August 14, 2013 by carlsson

[Greg2600]

I would just find one in good shape rather than bother with Retrobrite. Also, I personally ordered the S-Video cable from ebay, which looks great on an old CRT TV. As for the games, well, a good bulk also came on cassette rather than just disks. I couldn't be bothered with disks or tapes, so I went with the SD2IEC. I'm beginning to think that wasn't worth it, as it seems incapable of running the more advanced games that came in the late 80's on multiple disks or tapes. I did also get a reset button from the same ebay seller (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&pub=5574883395&toolid=10001&campid=5336500554&customid=&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2FCommodore-64-64C-Vic-20-user-port-Plug-in-Instant-System-Reset-Switch-NEW-%2F160954197782) as the S-Video cable (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&pub=5574883395&toolid=10001&campid=5336500554&customid=&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2FNEW-DUAL-Composite-S-VIDEO-video-Audio-Cord-Commodore-c64-64c-sx64-128-128D-4-%2F380546688884)

[carlsson]

Disk changes and swap lists can be done on sd2iec units. You may have to solder in a couple of buttons and prepare the swap lists (text files) before playing. Indeed TAP and T64 support are two more fields where the 1541U2 has little or no competition from cheaper devices. A lot of T64 files however tend to only contain one program, which could be extracted and put into a D64 file.

 

In any case, I think it is pretty clear that according to Atariboy's preferences, the 1541U2 is a must have. Earlier this summer the waiting list was cleared so anyone who had the money could just order a unit. I don't know if it still works the same way, or if it would be a good idea to put himself on a waiting list right away while locating a C64 setup to use it with.

[Greg2600]

Mine has the buttons, and I've tried the swap lists, but the compatibility is still really poor.

[RobertB]

Get a CPS-10 (or similar) aftermarket power supply. These were originally (I think) offered by "Phoenix"...

The Phoenix CPS-10 power supply is not infallible, either. At this year's Maker Faire, I was to display a C64C at the Nostalgic Computers exhibit. Well, one after another C64C kept failing (a total of three!). I finally figured out that it was the CPS-10 p.s. that was over-volting the Commodores. Morale of the story -- with old power supplies, even if they are heavy-duty, measure the output to see if they are in spec. Right now, the CPS-10 is being rebuilt with modern components so that it won't repeat its computer-killing ways.

In my case, I bought one from "Suntron" that appears to be well-ventilated.

I've never had any problems with old Suntrons.

The Commodore 128 is a waste of time... While I was *insanely* jealous as an Atari8 user that "we" got no such equivalent...

Back in the day, the C128 was pitted against the Atari 130XE.

...the fact of the matter is that this thing got NO software support...

The C128 commercial software list at

 

http://www.commodore128.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=ca3138b0db6d0525d88172d205352296&topic=1008.0

...and is a big space-consuming bastard.

Heh, I reserve that comment for the giant PETs in the house.

 

Truly,

Robert Bernardo

 

Fresno Commodore User Group

http://videocam.net.au/fcug

[Serious]

If Magic Voice isn't dirt common and is actually rare, I'll probably just forget about it unless I stumble across a deal someday. Voice isn't critical to playing Wizard of Wor and opinions on this particular accessory seem more negative than positive from the little I could find about it. And I could always fire up the arcade version if I wanted well done voice (Or at least I think it's well done and fits the atmosphere of the game to a tee).

 

The Commodore Magic Voice is actually very hard to find, but not necessarily that expensive. I searched intensely for one for about 3 months before I found one, and I think I ended up paying about $80 for it when I did.

[Atariboy]

Still a bit on the pricey side for an accessory that I'd likely only use for just Wizard of Wor.

 

Thanks for all the help everyone. Due to the expense of a few things, it will likely be a while before I enter the C64 world. And because of shipping, I'm hoping to at least be able to find the computer itself somewhere locally. But I've moved on to emulation to further my research a bit in preparation.

 

Before the past few days, I had only played perhaps 30 Commodore 64 games before. Never even saw one back in school even though Apple II's when I was in elementary school.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Atariboy

[almightytodd]

Can we talk about emulation at all? Has anyone purchased the license for C64 Forever? I've tried the demo version, but without the ability to scale or full screen, it's hard to gauge the experience. Others have pointed out that one difficulty with games for the C64, is that there seems to be a lack of consistency in the controls. I don't know that having real hardware versus emulation is that great of an advantage with regard to this issue.

[Atariboy]

Wanted to fix my post...

 

Before the past few days, I had only played perhaps 30 Commodore 64 games before. Never even saw one back in school even though Apple II's were everywhere back when I was in elementary school.