600XL or 400? I can't decide which one to get?

[oky2000]

I didn't like the 600XL much in the past it sort of had a stubby 'chopped off rear' look like those BMW Compact hatchbacks with the boot chopped off look. However I've started to warm to their diminutive design and compact deskspace they require. At the same time the 400 has that iconic 'Tron Desk' like keyboard that looks fantastic but is going to be less enjoyable to use than the 600XL's excellent proper keyboard. I'm not 100% sure but is the 400 only available with RF out but the 600XL has the same DIN type monitor port on the back too?

 

Both are usually 16kb when sold and both look really nice in their own way so apart from the keyboard issue what are the pros and cons of the 400 vs 600XL?

[Caterpiggle]

Only PAL Atari 600XL have video port compare to NTSC 600XL has only TV output.

[Magic Knight]

If you spill your drink on a 600XL then your in trouble - not so much a problem with a 400!

[Scooter83]

I like the little 600xl. If u get a 400 I feel like its a cheap knock off of the 800. Just feels like something is missing with that design.

[rchennau]

I prefer the 400 for nostalgia. However without a RAM upgrade and keyboard upgrade it is a bit difficult to work with. I'm waiting for Candle to produce an incognito board for the 400. Then I will sell off all of my other Atari stuff.

 

For now my main interest is in the 600XL because of all of the available upgrades.

[rchennau]

double post -- ignore. Wish there was a delete post function.

Edited August 12, 2013 by rchennau

[erazmus]

If you're looking for a single machine, I wouldn't pick either of these - they both need expansion options (RAM, and a keyboard for the 400) to make them usable. In my case, if I was given the option of just one of these, I'd pick the 400 purely because that was my first A8. The 600XL would probably be more practical, just because of the keyboard.

[adam242]

Personally, I love the 600XL. Big nostalgia factor for me, as it was the first A8 that I owned new. I like the compact styling and small desktop footprint.

 

It's very easy to expand to 64k and relatively easy to add a composite video out to an NTSC machine (the traces are already on the motherboard). The PAL machines already have composite out.

 

The motherboard is also completely socketed, and it's possible to add most of the upgrades available for the other XLs and XEs, like Ultimate 1Meg.

[Marius]

The 600xl is one of my most favorite atari's ever, although most keyboards are not that good, so I replaced it with a much better quality 800xl keyboard. I also did some improvements on the video out and the superb 512kb SRAM upgrade from Matthias Reichl.

 

It's a PAL 600xl and I really love that thing.

 

But it is an opinion ofcourse....

[Foebane]

My first Atari was a 600XL, which with the GTIA modes (more colours) would be a good first choice, low memory issues aside - but then, cartridges didn't have a worry with memory.

 

I've never tried to use a membrane keyboard like on the 400, but I did have a ZX81, and that thing was HORRIBLE for its keyboard!

[erazmus]

My first Atari was a 600XL, which with the GTIA modes (more colours) would be a good first choice, low memory issues aside - but then, cartridges didn't have a worry with memory.

All but the very first 400's have a GTIA chip in them. In fact, I would love to own an A8 with a CTIA in it - never seen one in person yet.

[RickR]

Get them BOTH. They are both excellent. For usability, the 600XL is better (better keyboard, easier to insert cartridges). For nostalgia and retro-cool looks, the 400 is the coolest thing ever.

[oky2000]

Thanks for all the advice

 

I should point out I already own an 800XL,65XE and 130XE so this is just going to be for mostly for cartridge games. I hope to end up with a 600XL, 800 and XEGS and then I can consider my PAL Atari collection complete but next machine is going to be the 600XL or 400 and the only one for a fair bit.

 

Have soooooooooo much stuff still to buy that I neglected and need to buy them all before the prices go OTT (some would argue that's happened already).

[Foebane]

All but the very first 400's have a GTIA chip in them. In fact, I would love to own an A8 with a CTIA in it - never seen one in person yet.

 

Really? I thought only the XLs and XEs had GTIA?

 

That means the fabled 256 colours of Atari A8 were there back in 1979! Does it?

[adam242]

I should point out I already own an 800XL,65XE and 130XE so this is just going to be for mostly for cartridge games.

 

That changes things a bit... If you already have an 800XL (the 600's big brother) but neither early machine, I'd grab a 400 for a little 1979 flavor. The 600xl if a fine computer (and superior, in my opinion) but it can wait.

[kenjennings]

Really? I thought only the XLs and XEs had GTIA?

 

That means the fabled 256 colours of Atari A8 were there back in 1979! Does it?

Later manufacturing runs of the 400/800 came with GTIA. Also, many 800s and 400s were upgraded, since it was a simple process. It's actually difficult to find a machine with the old CTIA in it.

[Foebane]

Later manufacturing runs of the 400/800 came with GTIA. Also, many 800s and 400s were upgraded, since it was a simple process. It's actually difficult to find a machine with the old CTIA in it.

 

Yes, I read up on the subject. I'm just glad that the GTIA predates the Commodore 64 by almost a year.

[oky2000]

That changes things a bit... If you already have an 800XL (the 600's big brother) but neither early machine, I'd grab a 400 for a little 1979 flavor. The 600xl if a fine computer (and superior, in my opinion) but it can wait.

 

Yeah that makes logical sense, the only thing is though I won't be able to type in any listings using the 400 so the 800XL would stay out and the 400 used less frequently than a 600XL because of the keyboard as I don't have space for everything, One room in my house is just wall to wall shelves of games (which is cool as I've gone off the wallpaper I put up in that room lol)

[oky2000]

Yes, I read up on the subject. I'm just glad that the GTIA predates the Commodore 64 by almost a year.

 

Yeah but even with CTIA you get 3 more greyscales or 112 more colours in the palette than any C64 so it's not that important really

[zylon]

I didn't like the 600XL much in the past it sort of had a stubby 'chopped off rear' look like those BMW Compact hatchbacks with the boot chopped off look. However I've started to warm to their diminutive design and compact deskspace they require. At the same time the 400 has that iconic 'Tron Desk' like keyboard that looks fantastic but is going to be less enjoyable to use than the 600XL's excellent proper keyboard. I'm not 100% sure but is the 400 only available with RF out but the 600XL has the same DIN type monitor port on the back too?

 

Both are usually 16kb when sold and both look really nice in their own way so apart from the keyboard issue what are the pros and cons of the 400 vs 600XL?

I use mostly my 600xl with the factory memory expansion added on. Works great for me and it is easily transferable to a replacement 600xl if needed.

[Foebane]

Yeah but even with CTIA you get 3 more greyscales or 112 more colours in the palette than any C64 so it's not that important really

 

Anything to hammer the final nail in the "A8 vs C64 colour debate" coffin

 

Besides, it's not so much the limited colours of the C64 that bother me, but the choice of said colours - I've never seen an uglier limited set.

[mimo]

400 for the win.

4 joystick ports!

candles incognito mod just around the corner.

[+MrFish]

Honestly, I never thought I would like to own a 400 before I actually chanced upon one in an Atari lot. I think, for starters, I didn't realize how small they were. I always thought they were just a little smaller than an 800, but they are in fact quite a bit smaller. I found that I really like them a lot. I think the stock keyboard is great, and makes it a unique item in the Atari range. It's not a keyboard for typing, but the design (how it looks) and how it functions is way better than I expected. I thought it would be one of those cheap, super-thin, plastic-film pieces of crap that you find on some toys. But this has a quality look and feel to it. It's perfectly suitable as a game console keyboard, and I enjoy using it. I'd never replace the stock keyboard on mine, but I would buy another 400 with an upgraded keyboard, or for upgrading myself. I think the machine has a lot of charm and style. It's perfectly useable as is, or with upgraded RAM, for a game machine, as there are plenty of games that DO run on it, but an Incognitoed one would put it into another league. It's definitely a nice companion to an 800.

Edited August 13, 2013 by MrFish

[Keatah]

Well, I like the 400. I learned to play Star Raiders on it (and various other cartridge games). It was magic! I never really intended to use it as a computer, I had the Apple II and Atari 800 for that.

 

So the 400 stayed downstairs in the wall-to-wall wood paneled den with shag carpeting. And served its gaming role with flying colors. And I bet it saw more gaming than the other two computers combined, for a while anyways.

[sup8pdct]

one minor thing to concider is that a light pen or gun will only work in port 4 on the 400. no idea why this was done.there are schematics getting around that show this. this will exclude almost everything that uses those devices as they will need to be in port 1

.

james

Edited August 14, 2013 by sup8pdct