Breaking news: Intellivision flashback coming to retail

[Greg2600]

Always appreciate the inside info Bill. I myself have stayed away from the At Games clones simply for lack of an SD slot. Don't need a cart slot. I have all those systems and flash carts, so they are kind of overkill for me to have. I have recommended the Atari and Genesis products to friends who bought them as gifts, and they were happy with them.

Edited October 12, 2013 by Greg2600

[Jeffrey Bouchard]

I am really happy about this news. A new source for controllers would be nice if they are compatible. Hope this releases sooner rather than later.

[Jeffrey Bouchard]

Has there been any more news on this console\other projects? Thank you.

[Bill Loguidice]

No new info to report. I'm waiting myself. These consoles (and apps) will be similar to past efforts like the Flashback, i.e., trying to remind you as much as possible of the original while keeping the size reasonable and making concessions for modern conveniences/costs.

[cparsley]

The issue would be if we dont have a keypad, a lot of games would either have to be rewritten or be unplayable without a keypad. BT, LNC, etc are just a couple that need the pad to get the game started, and lets not get into those that need it a lot more than that.

[cparsley]

PS - INTV HSC is extended to this Sunday (should of been all along but put the wrong date up originally)

[Bill Loguidice]

The issue would be if we dont have a keypad, a lot of games would either have to be rewritten or be unplayable without a keypad. BT, LNC, etc are just a couple that need the pad to get the game started, and lets not get into those that need it a lot more than that.

 

No issue. The controllers are being replicated. It's my hope this will be a source of replacement controllers like the Flashback ones are for Atari-compatible systems.

[+swlovinist]

Replacement controllers would be pretty cool. Glad that they have someone here involved with the project!

[Algus]

This jazzes me for the machine quite a bit. Hard to play Inty on newer devices because of the controller issue. Inty Lives on DS wasn't bad but I'd love new controllers.

[gamecat80]

this thing is gonna suck balls. they make a genesis arcade stick that has an sd card slot. they have a genesis system with a cart slot. both have absolute garbage audio as do all their systems. they made the atari flashback 3 and 4 only. both suck ass. they use a nintendo-on-a-chip with poorly converted games. this is the case with most things. the only reason they have a nintendo-on-a-chip and a genesis-on-a-chip is because they stole/obtained someone elses technology. im surprised they didnt steal the atari-on-a-chip from our good friends on this forum like curt vendell. i am curious if curt's crew designed the atari flashback 2 controllers. if they did then atgames stole the design of those as well changing the atari logo on them only.

 

 

You are dead wrong. At least about AtGames' newer stuff. Maybe you mean the Radica Sega units? THOSE tend to have distorted, harsh sound.

 

Many plug-n-play units use NES-on-a-chip technology (like the DreamGear units). But, as Bill said - the newer AtGames Sega stuff uses dedicated custom chips. And I am guessing the newer proposed Intv console will also use a custom chip.

 

Anyway, I have the new AtGames SMS/GG plug-n-play and I can attest that it pretty much perfectly emulates the original hardware - the graphics & sound are just like the original. I have played about 65 hours on that unit -- still on it's first set of batteries. Great console. Their newer Genesis stuff is quite good, too. You really need to try the newer AtGames stuff before making wrong assumptions....

 

What Bill L. said.

[pimpmaul69]

 

 

You are dead wrong. At least about AtGames' newer stuff. Maybe you mean the Radica Sega units? THOSE tend to have distorted, harsh sound.

 

Many plug-n-play units use NES-on-a-chip technology (like the DreamGear units). But, as Bill said - the newer AtGames Sega stuff uses dedicated custom chips. And I am guessing the newer proposed Intv console will also use a custom chip.

 

Anyway, I have the new AtGames SMS/GG plug-n-play and I can attest that it pretty much perfectly emulates the original hardware - the graphics & sound are just like the original. I have played about 65 hours on that unit -- still on it's first set of batteries. Great console. Their newer Genesis stuff is quite good, too. You really need to try the newer AtGames stuff before making wrong assumptions....

 

What Bill L. said.

i stopped buying their stuff since getting the flashback 3. never had a good experience. if they are making better stuff then i am more than willing to give this a whirl. i just know i wont get my hopes up knowing the experiences i have had.

[Retro Rogue]

 

 

You are dead wrong. At least about AtGames' newer stuff. Maybe you mean the Radica Sega units? THOSE tend to have distorted, harsh sound.

 

Many plug-n-play units use NES-on-a-chip technology (like the DreamGear units). But, as Bill said - the newer AtGames Sega stuff uses dedicated custom chips. And I am guessing the newer proposed Intv console will also use a custom chip.

 

Anyway, I have the new AtGames SMS/GG plug-n-play and I can attest that it pretty much perfectly emulates the original hardware - the graphics & sound are just like the original. I have played about 65 hours on that unit -- still on it's first set of batteries. Great console. Their newer Genesis stuff is quite good, too. You really need to try the newer AtGames stuff before making wrong assumptions....

 

What Bill L. said.

 

Nope, a year ago I had a room full of people who were long time genesis gamers try out their latest plug and play and there were emulation problems being called out all over. Same with the FB4. Colors, timing, sound, missing elements. Emulation is only as good as it's latest revision, and custom chips mean squat - they're still running emulators. The closest you're going to get is trying to reproduce the actual system hardware as hardware (single chip), which was our concept when we created the Flashback series (which really started with the FB2). Emulation is always just an approximation of the original hardware.

[pimpmaul69]

 

Nope, a year ago I had a room full of people who were long time genesis gamers try out their latest plug and play and there were emulation problems being called out all over. Same with the FB4. Colors, timing, sound, missing elements. Emulation is only as good as it's latest revision, and custom chips mean squat - they're still running emulators. The closest you're going to get is trying to reproduce the actual system hardware as hardware (single chip), which was our concept when we created the Flashback series (which really started with the FB2). Emulation is always just an approximation of the original hardware.

and i loved being able to mod the flashback 2 series. ​ hopefully jasonlikesintv is enjoying the one i gave him. i wish you guys were allowed to make the flashbacks with your new boards...

[+JasonlikesINTV]

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes!

 

It's actually pretty cool. I normally don't have my Atari hooked up, but I'm trying to get more into playing atari games. This thing is small and portable making me more likely to unplug the Intv every one in a while and play some Atari! I have close to 100 Atari 2600 titles (and 40-50 Colecovision games)...time to diversify

Edited October 27, 2013 by JasonlikesINTV

[gamecat80]

 

Nope, a year ago I had a room full of people who were long time genesis gamers try out their latest plug and play and there were emulation problems being called out all over. Same with the FB4. Colors, timing, sound, missing elements. Emulation is only as good as it's latest revision, and custom chips mean squat - they're still running emulators. The closest you're going to get is trying to reproduce the actual system hardware as hardware (single chip), which was our concept when we created the Flashback series (which really started with the FB2). Emulation is always just an approximation of the original hardware.

 

....which is why I said "pretty much perfectly emulates the original hardware". Have you, yourself, played the AtGames SMS/GG plug-n-play? Yeah......didn't think so. It's emulation is damn near close to the original hardware. There may be very slight differences in things like flicker or colors -- usually looking slightly better on the new plug-n-play consoles because of the inherent "flaws" of the original hardware. But it is still 99%+ like the original hardware....much better than earlier attempts. THAT is what I am talking about. I know emulation will never be 100% true like original hardware, but the newer stuff out is getting pretty damn close...

 

 

Here are a couple vids for your viewing pleasure......

 

Sega FunPlay 20-in-1 plug-n-play (predecessor to the AtGames SMS/GG POGA 30-in-1):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdiF9ZAPr54

 

 

I hope Bill L doesn't mind me posting his vid of the latest AtGames Genesis model (I will take it down if he wants):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrRxpQPEkvw

 

 

As you can see, the newer AtGames plug-n-plays are pretty damn near identical to the original hardware...

[Bill Loguidice]

I don't mind, of course (don't forget part 2). There are certainly differences if you're sensitive to them in both the Sega Genesis and Atari 2600 products, but they get better each revision, and most of the time you really have to be looking out for them. As expected, the next batch of products is even better still. In fact, I can say that the upcoming Sega Genesis handheld has gone in a new, positive direction in terms of added (and unexpected) features. Again, it's easy to criticize anything like this, but considering the price points these hit ($30 - $50) and the fact that the market is much softer than it used to be (meaning fewer sales than at their peak from several years back, thanks in part to the ubiquity of smartphones and tablets), it's welcome that we're still seeing these and still seeing improvements.

[Algus]

All the AtGames Genesis portable needs is save game support and I'll be happy. The last model was pretty good outside of not storing saves, particularly since Wiley Wars was an included game.

[onmode-ky]

Nope, a year ago I had a room full of people who were long time genesis gamers try out their latest plug and play and there were emulation problems being called out all over. Same with the FB4. Colors, timing, sound, missing elements. Emulation is only as good as it's latest revision, and custom chips mean squat - they're still running emulators. The closest you're going to get is trying to reproduce the actual system hardware as hardware (single chip), which was our concept when we created the Flashback series (which really started with the FB2). Emulation is always just an approximation of the original hardware.

Actually, per my findings as reported in this post and the one right after it, AtGames has used Genesis-on-a-chip implementations since at least 2008. The game ROMs run natively on the RedKid/RedKid 2 chip, not through an emulation layer. Any infidelity to the original Genesis is due to incomplete reproduction of the original architecture's behavior, the same as how most NES-on-a-chip implementations do not have full, 100% authentic reproduction of the original NES' behavior. Just as reproducing an architecture in software (i.e., emulation) can introduce errors, so can reproducing an architecture via a single-chip consolidation. Personally, I'm still unable to withstand AtGames' 2012 Genesis products' sound problems (different channels seem to play in different keys), so they still have some work to do.

 

As for the Flashback 3 and 4, those do run via emulation, on their Titan ARM chip.

 

....which is why I said "pretty much perfectly emulates the original hardware". Have you, yourself, played the AtGames SMS/GG plug-n-play? Yeah......didn't think so. It's emulation is damn near close to the original hardware.

Well, no, since it does not run on emulation. "To emulate" means "to pretend to be like" something else. In computing terms, the pretending aspect is the practice of running a different instruction set on the host hardware, by inserting a translation step in the middle. This is usually accomplished via software, i.e., an emulation program. Hardware emulation is hardly ever done outside of labs; that's where you build additional hardware on top of the host hardware to do the instruction translation. If your host hardware already uses the same instruction set as your software, then it isn't called "emulation" at all. It's just natively compatible--even if it doesn't replicate all the behaviors properly.

 

Do you remember the floating point problem with early Pentium chips? Later revisions fixed the problem. However, the fact that the two don't have the same behavior doesn't make one an emulation of the other; they both run the x86 instruction set, just with occasionally different behavior.

 

You can say I'm being too picky with the definition of "emulation," but since we are specifically discussing whether or not things run through hardware here, I thought we needed to clarify the terminology.

 

In summary:

- AtGames' SMS/GG systems - hardware natively runs the game ROMs, on the Noza chip

- AtGames' (current) Genesis systems - hardware natively runs the game ROMs, on the RK or RK2 chip; their older systems may have run via emulation

- AtGames' 2600 systems - hardware runs the game ROMs through an emulator program, on the Titan chip

- AtGames' Intellivision systems - unknown right now

 

onmode-ky

 

P.S. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind on how they feel about AtGames' products. Your reaction is based on the end result; I'm just clarifying details of what's under the hood.

[gamecat80]

Thanks, Bill L and onmode-ky for your posts and clarifying things. You both know much more about the AtGames plug-n-plays than anyone else here.

 

Kinda backs up what I was saying with the AtGames SMS/GG plug-n-play and the fact that it looks, sounds, and plays exactly like the original Great console. And any tiny difference in color are probably due to the fact that I'm playing it on my newer LED TV.

 

 

I will quote onmode-ky (mostly for Retro Rogue):

 

If your host hardware already uses the same instruction set as your software, then it isn't called "emulation" at all. It's just natively compatible--even if it doesn't replicate all the behaviors properly.



In summary:
- AtGames' SMS/GG systems - hardware natively runs the game ROMs, on the Noza chip
- AtGames' (current) Genesis systems - hardware natively runs the game ROMs, on the RK or RK2 chip; their older systems may have run via emulation
- AtGames' 2600 systems - hardware runs the game ROMs through an emulator program, on the Titan chip
- AtGames' Intellivision systems - unknown right now

onmode-ky

 

 

For the purists, only the original/actual hardware will do for them - no matter how good new custom chips or emulation is...

The reality is that the old original hardware WILL eventually "crap out".....it's only a matter of time.

New chips and emulation are the future to preserving these classic, vintage games.

[Jeffrey Bouchard]

Bill, any news, photos, etc. of this yet? Thanks for the update.

[Bill Loguidice]

Bill, any news, photos, etc. of this yet? Thanks for the update.

 

Unfortunately, no. Both the Intellivision and ColecoVision apps and TV game consoles are still under development. It definitely won't make this year.

[1980gamer]

It is better to not rush something out.

 

I wonder if having Christmas Carol or some other homebrew(s) included would increase awareness of these games existing and increase demand of these games?

 

Intellivision Lives sold a million plug-n-play units, how many people read this forum?

 

I think putting homebrew games on the system and including info on where to buy these and other games.... could really increase the pool of potential buyers.

[Bill Loguidice]

It is better to not rush something out.

 

I wonder if having Christmas Carol or some other homebrew(s) included would increase awareness of these games existing and increase demand of these games?

 

Intellivision Lives sold a million plug-n-play units, how many people read this forum?

 

I think putting homebrew games on the system and including info on where to buy these and other games.... could really increase the pool of potential buyers.

 

I don't know the exact figures, but I don't think these TV games consoles sell like that anymore. Rather than a million+, it's probably more like the hundreds of thousands. There are lots of reasons for that, of course, including the ubiquity of smartphones and tablets. I think that's why they're also pursuing an app strategy as well. Makes sense, of course, because you have to go where the biggest potential audience is.

[onmode-ky]

Intellivision Lives sold a million plug-n-play units, how many people read this forum?

I got curious about the sales numbers, so I looked into it. According to the press release announcing the Intellivision 10 2nd Edition plug-n-play units, the combined sales of the previous 3 products in Techno Source's line did not surpass the units sold number of the original Intellivision (and they were using 3.2 million for that number), but that figure was expected to be surpassed with the release of 2nd Edition. So, it wasn't too far away at that time. Next, the Intellivision Lives history page notes that by Christmas 2005 (the year of 2nd Edition's release), the combined sales of the line had in fact crossed the original Intellivision sales total and approached 4 million. I couldn't find any data for sales beyond that Christmas, but I'd guess they were not too significant, so 4 million sounds like a good rough figure for the final tally. I think 5 million or above would be pretty unlikely, considering that 2006 was a year of decline for plug-n-play in general. If we go with 4 million, then, the average for each member of the product line is 1 million.

 

I e-mailed both Techno Source and Intellivision Lives for more solid numbers, but I never got a response. Actually, it seems I only sent the latter an inquiry about the status of Night Stalker Gen2 (supposed to have been released in PlayStation Home by now, joining the existing Astrosmash Gen2 and Shark! Shark! Gen2 from about a year ago), but in any case, I never got a response. No answer at their toll-free number, either.

 

onmode-ky

[+BBWW]

 

I don't know the exact figures, but I don't think these TV games consoles sell like that anymore. Rather than a million+, it's probably more like the hundreds of thousands. There are lots of reasons for that, of course, including the ubiquity of smartphones and tablets. I think that's why they're also pursuing an app strategy as well. Makes sense, of course, because you have to go where the biggest potential audience is.

I still like the Idea of an Intellivision App for iPad where an iPhone works as a "real" controller. You should be able to emulate the wheel and keypad pretty closely, maybe even using the volume Up as one side button and down as another? In the end there is no substitute for the real thing.