Are C64 and VIC video cables cross-compatible?

[Jess Ragan]

I guess that pretty much says it all. I see several composite cables available on eBay, but some are listed as compatible with the C64/C128, and others list the VIC-20 as well.

[zylon]

Yes. At least to all the ones I've used.

[RickR]

Yes and no. The C64 has two different types of monitor cables. 8 pin and 5 pin. The 5 pin is compatible with VIC-20 (or Atari 800XL, TI 99/4A, etc). The 8 pin is not. I have a couple of 8-pins that behave really strangely on my mono-tv. If only the white audio cable is plugged in the video is black and white and it sounds great. If the red audio cable is used, the video is color, but no sound!

 

It makes it tough to buy one on ebay...you have be be able to see the plug, or the seller hopefully specifies how many pins.

[eightbit]

If it is five pin (5-pin DIN) all you have to do is purchase the cable that has four connections (black/red/yellow/white) and you can use them across multiple devices. They are usually considered Commodore or Atari monitor cables, but they will work with many devices such as the Vic, Core Grafx (and Turbo Duo) and anything else that uses 5-pin DIN. You would just need to plug each connector in until you see proper video and hear proper audio. For example, one of these will provide video on the black and audio on the white on my 800XL, and video on the white and audio l/r on the red and yellow on my Core Grafx.

 

Myatari sells the cable, and it is all you pretty much need if it is a 5-pin DIN connection. For 8-pin, you would want to find that particular cable.

[Seob]

Are the 8pin and 5 pin din not compatible? I'm pretty sure i made a 5 pin din cable and used it on a 8 pin din c64.

[RickR]

Are the 8pin and 5 pin din not compatible? I'm pretty sure i made a 5 pin din cable and used it on a 8 pin din c64.

They are compatible (meaning that a C64 with 8-pin port will work with a 5-pin cable).

[carlsson]

To clarify some: both the VIC-20 and all revisions of the C64 output composite video. In order to use that signal, a 5-pin DIN connection is required. The VIC actually has composite video on two pins, the very first revision of the VIC-20 had different voltages (I think) in order to feed one to the external RF modulator.

 

The 8-pin DIN on the C64 is used to get separate luma/chroma video, often called S-Video although techincally it is not identical to S-Video. You get a better video signal with a such cable, but it is only compatible with the C64 itself, the C128 and I believe the C16 and Plus/4.

 

The 5-pin DIN cable which only outputs composite video however is also compatible with several Atari 8-bit models, the TI-99/4A (US version, not European!), the Spectravideo SVI-318/328 and more.

 

If you get a generic cable with 5-pin DIN and four RCA connectors, you can as well use it with the first edition Sega Genesis/Megadrive, ditto for the SC-3000 and other systems. While those share the fact that GND is on the middle pin (which I think is kind of a DIN standard for all sorts of cables including audio only, although not all manufacturers honored that), the Genesis has composite video on a different pin so you can't use a custom made VIC cable, however a generic cable would let you try all pins. I don't know the Core Grafx, but it sounds like it shares pinout with the Genesis?

 

Of course, just like the C64 offers separate luma/chroma, the Genesis outputs RGB if you have a device that can accept it. In both cases it provides better picture than composite video, but one has to ask yourself how much you value the best possible picture vs fewest possible cables.

[+wood_jl]

As long as you're talking STANDARD COMPOSITE they are the same. That is, one RCA for composite, and once RCA for audio. On the other end is a 5-pin DIN.

Because the VIC-20 never had S-video (or split composite) anyway, this is all that you can use. But this cable works on all 3 machines

 

If you want S-video (or split composite with separate chroma/luminance) then they are different. The Atari still uses a 5-pin connector but a different cable (that will not work on the C64 because of different pinouts), and the C64 moves to an 8-pin connector that will not even plug into the Atari anyway.

 

The Atari XL computers need the chroma line hooked up to get S-video; this is a simple connection inside. Old beige 800 and 65XE / 130XE computers have it hooked up standard.

 

There are some very nice "combo cables" that combine a standard composite and S-video cable into one cable, but of course they are C64 and Atari8 specific.

 

(Very early C64 machines had 5-pin (VIC-20) video ports and no S-video, but these are so rare it's unlikely to be a concern)

[carlsson]

With the risk of added confusion, the VIC-I chip inside the VIC-20 actually has pins for split chroma/luma, and a number of people have made internal modifications to tap that signal instead of the composite video for even better picture quality. I don't remember if those people usually go for the 8-pin "horseshoe" variant, as that connector tends to be hard to find, or if they settled for a different pinout. Of course this is purely academic in this context, as Jess was looking for video cables on eBay and I'm not sure anyone there is selling custom cables for already modified machines, at least not without pointing it out in big lettering.

[+Psionic]

I don't know the Core Grafx, but it sounds like it shares pinout with the Genesis?

For the most part yes, as well as the Master System.

[carlsson]

A while ago, I captured some video from my Philips VG-8235 MSX2 computer. It has both SCART RGB and a monitor output through a DIN connector; 7 or 8 pin, IIRC. I seem to recall its composite video matches the Genesis pinout too, perhaps not the other signals but it would suggest there are at least two distinctive pinouts for how to get composite video and mono audio from a 5-pin DIN connector: the "American" standard with Atari, Commodore, to some part TI etc, and the "Japanese" standard featuring some Sega, NEC, possibly several MSX systems.

Edited December 30, 2013 by carlsson

[Hatta]

Yes, unfortunately it's not standardized. Becareful which cable you use, as there is 5V on these connectors, and you don't want to fry anything accidentally.

[Mr SQL]

I got a midi cable at Radio Shack, it's the same 5-pin DIN. Later c64's have the capability of taking a cable with more pins but the 5-pin DIN fits into it backwards compatible - it will work on any c64 or VIC-20, just splice to RCA cables.

[Jess Ragan]

Thanks for the info, gang. Actually, I wouldn't mind connecting my VIC and C64 to my Amiga monitor... it's got a special RGB port that I've been itching to try, but I've never had the necessary parts for it. (Some online sellers have RGB cables for computers and game systems, but they're all SCART, which this monitor doesn't support.)

[carlsson]

Which model of the monitor? I assume it is a 108x of some sort. A couple of those had two different DIN connectors for TTL RGBI and analog RGB. Some mixed the TTL with SCART (which yours doesn't have) and the 1084S instead had a DB9 and a switch to select TTL or analog mode. A DB9 with TTL RGB is pretty much equivalent to CGA/EGA,

 

Out of the 8-bit Commodore computers, I believe only the C128 in VDC (80 column) mode will provide a RGB signal (TTL levels in that case). Some other systems will as well, depending on what you've got available. It should be noted that while both the VIC-II and VDC can output an image at the same time, the computer in C128 mode only uses one screen at a time for the user interface (read: BASIC etc). Also those two connections are separate, so you can't expect to get 40 column output in RGB quality by using the DB9 VDC output. Rather you would have two sets of cables, or a custom one which hooks up into two inputs on the monitor and then you flip a switch to go between e.g. separate video (40 columns) and RGB (80 columns).