New TV show - Halt and Catch Fire

[Shannon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design

[Osgeld]

yea thats what they are trying to show but

 

The specification is then implemented by a team with no connection to the original examiners.

 

Isnt quite the same as some chick you just boned and your all sitting in the conference room

[Creature XL]

Have you seen it?

 

If I am not mistaken I saw an Atari 800XL, although the context as totally wrong, but who cares.

 

EDIT:

I will post later where I might have seen it.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Creature XL

[Creature XL]

Episode 6. 08:16 Minutes (depends on the version you watch I guess)

 

I really like the show. It might not be historically correct ( and for what reason does he modify a game on the XL when she plays it on here PC?).

But all in all it gives a nice view of the times. I was born in the late 70s so I haven't "lived" in the early 80s

[almightytodd]

Have you seen it?

 

If I am not mistaken I saw an Atari 800XL, although the context as totally wrong, but who cares.

 

EDIT:

I will post later where I might have seen it.

 

 

Episode 6. 08:16 Minutes (depends on the version you watch I guess)

 

I really like the show. It might not be historically correct ( and for what reason does he modify a game on the XL when she plays it on her PC?).

But all in all it gives a nice view of the times. I was born in the late 70s so I haven't "lived" in the early 80s

 

I noticed what looks like one of the XL models in one of the scenes as well, as shown here:

 

 

But it looks like it's hooked up to an 80 column monochrome monitor, which wouldn't be right. As to the machine she uses to play the game... ...I don't think they're supposed to be using IBM PCs at Cardiff. You might recall that in the first or second episode, Gordon Clark buys an IBM PC so they can figure out which chip is the BIOS, and pull it out to reverse engineer it. In the scenes that show the software developer machines, it looks like they're either Zenith Z-100 computers or terminals...

 

Zenith Z-100 computer

 

Zenith Z-19 Terminal

 

...or some other terminal, such as the DEC VT52 connected to a Main Frame:

 

DEC VT52 terminal

 

...In any case, none of the machines I've seen in the scenes of Cardiff Electric look like the original IBM 5150 PC:

 

IBM 5150 PC

 

The other question I had, was the program code they showed while she was working on writing a command-line interpreter:

 

 

I question whether in 1983/84 she would be writing system-level program code for a 16 bit CPU using Camel-case "C" language code?! I am especially curious about this aspect, because in previous scenes, they've shown assembly language code on her screen. Is it realistic to believe she'd be proficient (or ingenious) in both?

 

Am I getting too bogged down in the details?

[Lynxpro]

They've only mentioned Atari once in the show. However, the industrial designs created by the lead character's ex lover [Principal Wood from Buffy] resembles a lot of Atari's industrial designs done circa 1981-82 representing what they thought computers would resemble in their near future.

 

A more dramatic series could've been done about the crazy times at Atari Inc during that very same time period.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Lynxpro

[Osgeld]

 

I question whether in 1983/84 she would be writing system-level program code for a 16 bit CPU using Camel-case "C" language code?! I am especially curious about this aspect, because in previous scenes, they've shown assembly language code on her screen. Is it realistic to believe she'd be proficient (or ingenious) in both?

 

Am I getting too bogged down in the details?

 

I dont know about if you would do it in the real world, but in the show world they need to make an IBM compatible that beats and IBM in every way including speed, and by the shows own account one key piece is a optimized bios, which you aint going to make with a C compiler

[RevEng]

According to almightytodd it was a CLI she was writing, so maintainability and speed of development would be more important than execution speed. You're not going to notice ~2x execution speed of unoptimized C versus assembly there, except perhaps during long batch files, which aren't really the typical case. It makes sense to me, and it was a common feature of many K&R C compilers to allow inline assembly, so she might even be optimizing bits along the way.

 

The bigger problem with her code is that it's using ANSI C function argument syntax which didn't exist back then, rather than the K&R function syntax which was used back then.

 

Just noticed her one-line "//" comments too. We didn't get those until the 90's!

 

But all of that is nitpicking. Most shows would just use a screen of gibberish, or html source, or something equally stupid.

[bbking67]

 

 

 

I noticed what looks like one of the XL models in one of the scenes as well, as shown here:

 

HnCF_XL.jpg

 

But it looks like it's hooked up to an 80 column monochrome monitor, which wouldn't be right. As to the machine she uses to play the game... ...I don't think they're supposed to be using IBM PCs at Cardiff. You might recall that in the first or second episode, Gordon Clark buys an IBM PC so they can figure out which chip is the BIOS, and pull it out to reverse engineer it. In the scenes that show the software developer machines, it looks like they're either Zenith Z-100 computers or terminals...

 

 

 

I used a monochrome green screen (then later an amber one) for years with my Atari. Initially I had an RCA XL100 Tv which I used with the RF output (which was really terrible from my 800XL by the way), and the green screen off of the monitor jack. For word processing or BBS'ing you get used to the sharpness of the mono screen real fast. Last on I used a 130XE with a Commodore monitor, relegating the ambre monochrome screen to working with my XEP80. My green screen stayed with the 800XL to run the BBS. Other than for gaming, the mono screen is really the way to go... one thing I liked with the particular amber screen I had was that it had a speaker and a volume knob.

[Dripfree]

I'm 5 episodes in and I'm really enjoying it. I Know it is a lot of fiction but I'm wondering if the company or the computer they are making is based on anything real? I picked up this little guy a few years back from salvation army for $7. It's a sharp PC 7000 and everything they keep saying about their computer seems to fit. Size, weight, handle, lcd screen, and disk drives. At first they were saying they were going to use a 286 but now they're saying they switched to the 8086 so it still seems to fit. I'm not to sure of of the rest the technical specs of this thing so maybe I'm way off but it's got me curious.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Dripfree

[+Stephen]

Funny how the definition of "portable" has changed over the years!

[Tempest]

They used to be affectionately known as 'luggables'. You're going to get a tired arm carrying one of those around all day.

[Caterpiggle]

I recently checked old-computers.com and none of them existing such a name as "Giant" or Cardiff Company. It is just phony names ? None of them are real based in real world during 1980's. Is that right ? It is just a movie.

[Dripfree]

I recently checked old-computers.com and none of them existing such a name as "Giant" or Cardiff Company. It is just phony names ? None of them are real based in real world during 1980's. Is that right ? It is just a movie.

 

Yes Cardiff and Giant are just phony names. At first I had thought that it was most likely loosely based on a real company and a real computer. I am now under the impression that it's almost %100 fiction. I think it probably takes bits of truth from many different company's, and combined them into one dramatic storyline. Still a very good show just not a history lesson.

 

I did see what the "Giant" looks like now and it's nothing like my "luggable" Sharp although the specs are somewhat similar.

 

I'm also curious about the OS they have designed. It's like a text based SIRI. I've never heard of anything like that existing at that time. Is that just pure fiction also?

[Caterpiggle]

I don't know whosoever designed that "prototype" "portable" computer with slash screen "Giant" when it power-up. Maybe it is mock up somehow that wired from another real computer beside the movie itself. Who know ? It is just like Dagger & Cloak movie that port game from arcade into Atari 800 screen monitor. It was NOT actually running Atari 800 , itself but arcade. So the same thing above.

[bbking67]

The show is really probably more about Compaq than any other company. Moreover its about the Texas computing scene (silicon prairie). Some elements remind me of the old Hyperion luggables, which pre-dated the Compaq... however Hyperion was Canadian and the show's premise is of a Texas-based company. I guess the fictional backdrop is the entire industry as it existed in the early PC era.

[Osgeld]

I started to think that going in, but there is no resemblance to compaq outside of a clean room bios, and they were not the only ones doing it at the time, they just happened to do it successfully first

 

and of course there was a good share of luggables out at the time before compaq as well, but they were all 8 bit CPM machines without the magic IBM touch

Edited July 24, 2014 by Osgeld

[re-atari]

Funny how the definition of "portable" has changed over the years!

I've got a very early Compaq portable (1983-ish) in my collection. It consists of a standard sized PC mainboard, floppy and VDU card, 2 full height (!) floppydrives, PSU and CGA screen shoehorned into some sort of Samsonite suitcase. It weighs in at about 10 Kg. I guess it's more a 'transportable' than a 'portable'.

 

Glad they didn't call it a 'laptop' back then. IIRC Toshiba or Grid pioneered that kind of case layout.

 

re-atari

[tschak909]

GRiD was the first to produce what you would call a laptop, with the Compass laptop, it was still roughly 13-15 pounds, but it had a wonderful gas plasma display, that shone a bright yellow when lit.

 

There was no built in floppy or hard disk, but rather a chunk of bubble memory, and the option to plug in external floppies and hard disks (or to connect to what was essentially a file server). $11,000 brand new, and it looked _fantastic_. It was pre-MS-DOS, so it had its own software on it...

 

It's been a long time since I touched one...

 

http://oldcomputers.net/grid1101.html

 

-Thom

[potatohead]

I'm enjoying this show. Good comments so far.

 

One thing AMC is doing is adding features to the website. Like when they all got sucked into the text adventure game. AMC hosted it, with some hints on how to play and I think they should get some credit for trying to share the culture. Music playlists for the characters are good too. Nicely done so far.

 

I like the characters a lot. They are vibrant and believable. Of course, it's fiction, but it's good fiction in an under-appreciated setting.

 

AMC has them streaming online too. Just watch 'em there, if you want to.

[Shannon]

Wasn't Adventure the mainframe version of what eventually became Zork I thru III?

 

However I thought the thing where she used if the programmers hacked Adventure as a gauge of their skill was stupid. Cute.. but stupid.

[Osgeld]

the few episodes I watched (I actually dont like the show) I noticed her charter has a bunch of "cute but stupid" moments, almost child like and trying too hard

Edited July 27, 2014 by Osgeld

[Theoryman]

But a LOT of the female system level programmers fresh out of school back then were like her...

 

--

[Osgeld]

Agreed, but not all of them had that scoffing attitude "no one calls it that, its VLSI hur hur" like really that's ... cute but stupid, like 10 seconds on screen first episode heh.

 

The character (keep in mind this is no reflection of the actresses ability and talent to act) least in the first handful of episodes I watched, seemed to be a "tell dont show", getting all sorts of credit for being a brilliant programmer but all you see is her acting like a snotty punk, pulling on her hair and making pouty faces and getting fussed at for being the bottleneck (I mean jee I wish I could show up late for class, be a smart ass, show no ability and get a make or break a company position overnight)

 

I have already said this in one of the other threads on the subject, so sorry if anyone has to re-read it

 

And for the record I dont hate the show, I just lost interest in something that felt like it could have been a made for tv movie, shrug, but dont let me stop anyone from enjoying it

Edited July 29, 2014 by Osgeld

[ACML]

I thought the ending of the last episode about COMDEX was humorous. They unveil the Macintosh and when the Mac says "I am Macintosh", Joe with his jaw dropped says "It speaks?". Seriously, our little 6502C Atari's could do this two years earlier with Software Automatic Mouth (S.A.M.). In fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but "Macintalk" which created the speech for the Mac intro was derived from S.A.M. technology. Macintalk is a descendant from S.A.M. S.A.M. was created for the Atari and Apple II in 1982. The Atari turned off the ANTIC to allow it's 1.79Mhz 6502 and POKEY to create the voice. I guess at the time, the IBM crowd would "ohhhh" and "awhh" at a speech synthesizer 1983/4.

 

What next, they are going to scream with applause for graphics dedicated chips sets (i.e. video cards), a dedicated sound chipset (Soundblaster) and wait until they discover a universal serial buss (USB) that allows "smart" peripherals to "plug and play". Oh wait, Atari did all that in 1979 with the GTIA/ANTIC, POKEY and the SIO port respectively. The show is O.K., I'm watching it, but the whole text adventure OS thing is cheezy!