RickR Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Hello All:I've recently acquired an Apple Macintosh Powerbook 180 in very nice condition. It is a really cool machine. As someone that is new to the classic Macintosh, I was hoping to get a little help here with software. I don't have any other Apple machines in the house. I've downloaded a few game images to my PC, and was wondering if it was possible to create 3.5" floppy disks on my PC to be used on the Mac. I did some Google searches and downloaded a few utilities that are supposed to do this, but haven't really had any luck. Or maybe there is someone here that is willing to sell a few games on floppy? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 The high density 1.44 MB disks use the same low-level format (but different filesystem) between PC and Mac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed in SoDak Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) Low-End Mac is where I go to get basic info on all the Mac models through the years. Here's yours: http://lowendmac.com/1992/powerbook-180/ There's an article in the list on that page about transferring stuff: http://lowendmac.com/2007/vintage-mac-networking-and-file-exchange/ Do you know which System software is installed? Probably it's 7.6.1, but could be older 7.1 or possibly newer System 8. At some point Macs were able to accept a PC-format 3.5" disk and read/write to it. Make a test disk on your PC and put a file or two on it and see if the 180 will read it. Sometimes the floppy drives are worn out and may damage a disk, so start with something unimportant. Other times, your laptop may or may not have a floppy drive installed, they plug into a port on the side similar to the battery. Another way to tell, if you put a blank disk in the Mac and choose to format it, you will see an option for PC-format which also verifies your Mac will read them. If that's the case, you can transfer stuff easily. The on-screen icon for the disk will show the letters PC or if it's a Mac disk, it will just have a plain disk icon. Older Macs could only handle 800k, these might not be able to read PC-type disks. But if it's a 1.4 meg drive, it probably can use PC disks. I have a bunch of programs for the older Macs. We'll figure out the best way to get some of them to you. -Ed Edited June 28, 2014 by Ed in SoDak 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickR Posted June 28, 2014 Author Share Posted June 28, 2014 Low-End Mac is where I go to get basic info on all the Mac models through the years. Here's yours: http://lowendmac.com/1992/powerbook-180/ There's an article in the list on that page about transferring stuff: http://lowendmac.com/2007/vintage-mac-networking-and-file-exchange/ Do you know which System software is installed? Probably it's 7.6.1, but could be older 7.1 or possibly newer System 8. At some point Macs were able to accept a PC-format 3.5" disk and read/write to it. Make a test disk on your PC and put a file or two on it and see if the 180 will read it. Sometimes the floppy drives are worn out and may damage a disk, so start with something unimportant. Other times, your laptop may or may not have a floppy drive installed, they plug into a port on the side similar to the battery. Another way to tell, if you put a blank disk in the Mac and choose to format it, you will see an option for PC-format which also verifies your Mac will read them. If that's the case, you can transfer stuff easily. The on-screen icon for the disk will show the letters PC or if it's a Mac disk, it will just have a plain disk icon. Older Macs could only handle 800k, these might not be able to read PC-type disks. But if it's a 1.4 meg drive, it probably can use PC disks. I have a bunch of programs for the older Macs. We'll figure out the best way to get some of them to you. -Ed Wow, very good info. Thanks! The Mac is running System Software version 7.5. It has 8Mb of RAM. And yes, it can read/format PC 1.44 disks. I'm getting lost in the process of downloading game images and copying those to floppy disks using a PC. So any help in attaining software, putting it on a floppy, and running on the Mac would be fantastic. Thanks, Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed in SoDak Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) I'm not current on finding/using old Mac programs off the 'net. I got most of mine on floppies 20-odd years ago or grabbed 'em back when these old programs were the latest/greatest. As far as getting them off your PC onto floppies, is that where you're having problems? I am not a Windows user, but I'd think you should be able to choose the floppy as the destination for whatever test files you start with and copy them to it. Much like copying something from a CD to your PC harddrive. If that's where the snag is happening, maybe some Windows-savvy member will chime in. Your Mac should be able to open that floppy and you can drag the files to where you want to store them on your Mac. Double-click the floppy disk icon to open it as a window, then simply drag and drop the files onto your hard drive. Usually, if there's multiple related files, it's best to first make a new folder on your hard drive and drag the files into it. You can name that folder whatever you like, usually it's the name of the program. That helps keep associated files together in one place and not mivxed in with other Mac files. You can always move them again later or rename/add/delete folders, etc. Basically you're just copying files from your PC onto a floppy and inserting the disk in the Mac and copying it from there to your laptop's hard drive. No special program should be required to do this. Once the files are on your Mac, what you do next depends on the file itself. Often the icon will give a clue if it's a program/application or a doc/text file or whatever. Maybe there's some YouTube Mac tutorials or other ways to become familiar with the classic Mac experience. A total Mac newbie would normally need at least some introduction to it. The Mac often has some good built-in Help files, usually it's on right of the menu items on top of your screen, and will show the Help file for whatever program you're in at the moment. There's a lot to know about configuring your Mac to your liking and needs. It's all fairly simple, but can be set up quite differently from one machine to the next. Your System Folder might have a standard default setup, or any number of things could be either disabled or added in by the previous owner. For now, we'll assume you're using a pretty much stock configuration. If we can get you saving some stuff onto PC disks and getting them onto your Mac, we can email some things to get you going. If I'll need to make physical floppies to snail-mail to you, it won't be right away, I have way too many irons in the fire at the moment! Maybe others here would be in a better position to provide you with some basics in a more timely manner. Many times, downloaded files are in some sort of archive or installer format. On the Mac, it's often a Stuffit file format. The Stuffit and Extractor programs may already be on your Mac, or you might need to locate a suitable version of it. Installer programs don't need anything extra, just duble click and maybe tell it where you want to install the software. Usually double-clicking any Mac file will automatically find and run the program you need to use it. But not always! If you run into a snag with this, I can probably recognize the file type and program required. Do you have any links to some of the things you've been downloading or looking at? -Ed Edited June 28, 2014 by Ed in SoDak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 http://macgui.com/downloads/?cat_id=53 make an account, you get a basket and can download a lot more in a 24 hour period with one most of those files are going to be disk images, so it doesn't matter how you get them to your mac, once there you can open them up and put them wherever you want, if you are using windows be mindful that windows will sometimes garble up the file (its not impossible, but linux is a better option for handling mac files without failure) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickR Posted June 29, 2014 Author Share Posted June 29, 2014 OK, so I downloaded a game in ".sit" format. What's next? I can get that file in .sit format to the Mac, but not sure what to do at that point. I think you told me that I can install an extractor program on the Mac, but that's kind of my point of confusion. I'll look around for that program, as I'm pretty sure it isn't already on my Mac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 (edited) sit files (which I HATE) are stuffit http://www.emaculation.com/basilisk/stuffit_expander_55.bin stuffit is like winzip for mac you wont run into this too much on classic mac, but stuffit expander files are somewhat dependent on what version was used to make it. On my 8500 I think the highest version I could run on OS8.x was like 5.5 (like linked above) but everything was packed using 6.0 on OS9 -9.22, drove me nuts (until I got a ebay copy of OS9, years later after that machine was long gone and I got my 9600) Edited June 29, 2014 by Osgeld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickR Posted June 29, 2014 Author Share Posted June 29, 2014 How about "*.cpt.hqx" files? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 (edited) dunno about cpt (google says its a corel paint file), hqx is macintosh binary installer file, those are the ones that windows like to eat (bin, hqx and hqx.bin) if it transferred correctly you should be able to just double click and run I love classic mac's but they are just compatible enough to pc's to cause a lot of aggravation, I have had a old mac in a pc echospere since the mid 90's and have come up with my methods, over time its been rewarding, hopefully you will find the same. and feel free to ask as many questions as you can, I can only tell you what has worked for me, but hey its just a mac, not a MIT mainframe Edited June 29, 2014 by Osgeld 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickR Posted June 29, 2014 Author Share Posted June 29, 2014 No luck so far. Here's what I've done. I downloaded the stuffit expander program "stuffit_expander_55.bin". I copied it to a floppy disk from my PC. The file gets renamed to a short MS DOS filename. Something like "STUFF~1.BIN". I then insert this floppy into the Mac. It can read the disk just fine, but when I double click the stuffit file, it has no idea what to do with it and just gives an error message. If I format the floppy on the MAC, the PC cannot read or write to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+thegoldenband Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 I'm pretty sure that .cpt is a Compact Pro file format -- an old alternative to Stuffit, ZIP, et al. that didn't get much traction. You can apparently still download it from the publisher here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 yes that is windows eating the file, and you have to specify ms dos when formatting a floppy on the mac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed in SoDak Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) Since we're dealing with software and hardware that's going on 20+ years old, you can expect the unexpected to happen. I still use Stuffit Expander 5.5 myself, but is it compatible with your PB180 and System 7.5? The same applies to whatever archive scheme that was used by the person who uploaded these vintage files to some website or other. There are standards, but they change over time. Some things might go fine for you on the first try, while others remain a mystery until you learn the ropes. Take the Expander link that Osgeld posted as an example. On my system, it opened just fine with a double-click. This expanded the 808k .bin file to an 808k installer file. Running the installer created a 1.2 meg Expander application and 88k of documentation files. If you didn't get an installer when you double-clicked the .bin, that means it may or may not be recognized by System 7.5, i.e., the installer program or the archive .bin format happens to be of a newer type that requires System 7.6 or later. Such info is often not included on the website where you found the download, or you may have to hunt around for the details of what is required or supported. It's not easy at first, especially when dealing with files that were improperly submitted, poorly documented and you have no idea what's required on your end, even when things are as they should be, but you're lacking some once-common utility program such as Stuffit. If something doesn't work straight off, try another way. While trying some things in order to better help you, I found a download that wouldn't expand with a double-click, but worked fine when I dragged its icon directly onto the Expander application itself. Go figure! Another .dmg archive I downloaded was intended to open as a disk image, but failed, so this file might be corrupt or improperly submitted and you'll get nowhere trying it further. There's many other files to try and with experience and practice, you'll find software that's both correctly uploaded and compatible with your system. Maybe look around for an earlier version of Stuffit, or alternatively, get the newer system 7.6.1 for your laptop. Many things to try when you're new at it all. Just don't expect across-the-board compatibility with a computer as old as yours. You'll need to learn the ropes as to what will work with the least hassle and until you learn more, stick to those types of archives, sites, filetypes, etc. I always kept my "dud" downloads around, as quite often I upgraded my system later on and knew more about what I was doing so I was able to go back and finally try out things I'd downloaded years before. At least now we know you can get files from your PC onto a floppy your Mac will read and that helps us a lot. I'll send you a PM a bit later with some stuff you can use immediately without needing to expand/etc beforehand. -Ed Edited June 30, 2014 by Ed in SoDak 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed in SoDak Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Looks like you have PMs blocked. Hey, I tried, -Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algus Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 For apps and OS support, try Macintosh Garden. It's a great site but not all of the software has been adequately cleaned so scrub it with something before you load it onto an actual Mac. Optionally, Emaculation has a good page for 68k software. I highly recommend setting up a Mac emulator on your main PC to provide software support as well as testing to make sure you don't get anything bad on your PowerBook. It's a lot easier to maintain and repair an emulated computer than it is the real thing! I personally use Basilisk II: System 7 really is one of my favorite OSes. Here's a discussion from last year about getting content onto a floppy disc (guy had the same computer as you too!). I was wondering if a disc image was made in Basilisk and then copied to Windows and then copied to the disc from within Windows if that might work. I don't have a USB floppy drive or an old Mac to fiddle with it though so I can't advise you to closely on that. Basilisk II, and other 68k/PowerPC Mac emulators, will typically allow you to link a shared directory on your hard drive to swap files in and out of the virtualized hard drive the emulator uses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed in SoDak Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Rick, I don't know what the issue was with the PM, glad it worked the next day. Did you find a way around your PC renaming the Mac files? Those are some great links to the old software, I've been having fun looking around and trying a few. -Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickR Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 Nope. No matter what I try, the Mac sees the files as "PC Exchange Documents". I'll keep trying as time permits. Thanks for all the help and tips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed in SoDak Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Well, maybe it'll just be easier to snailmail you some stuff. I cleaned the heads on the drive in my old laptop and it seems to be working now. I'll PM for your address. -Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algus Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 BTW Apple has posted a ton of their legacy software (pre 2000) as freeware/abandonware right on their website! http://www.info.apple.com/support/oldersoftwarelist.html Macintosh Garden and other Mac abandonware sites host up to the first few versions of OS X (Power PC versions) but IIRC Apple has only released up to System 7 (ver 7.5) for free. This thread kind of makes me envious. I spent some time shopping for a classic Mac before finally giving up and just emulating on my Mac Mini. Macs from this era were some of the first computers I used extensively because of school. They hold a special place in my heart. We were still using Mac LCs when I took journalism in High School (early 2000s). I spent a lot of time writing Iraq War coverage on these things lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed in SoDak Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Envy= bad, old Mac= joy I have such a shed full of Mac stuff, if you're still looking we can fix you up! -Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickR Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 BTW Apple has posted a ton of their legacy software (pre 2000) as freeware/abandonware right on their website! http://www.info.apple.com/support/oldersoftwarelist.html Macintosh Garden and other Mac abandonware sites host up to the first few versions of OS X (Power PC versions) but IIRC Apple has only released up to System 7 (ver 7.5) for free. This thread kind of makes me envious. I spent some time shopping for a classic Mac before finally giving up and just emulating on my Mac Mini. Macs from this era were some of the first computers I used extensively because of school. They hold a special place in my heart. We were still using Mac LCs when I took journalism in High School (early 2000s). I spent a lot of time writing Iraq War coverage on these things lol Finding the software isn't really a problem....it's getting it onto the Mac in usable form that's killing me. I was in college when the first Mac came out, and a buddy in the dorms had one. Amazing. This particular model I have now is pretty amazing. I mean, it's pretty small even by today's standards, and the screen is excellent. I'm guessing it was drool-worthy back in 1992. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uzumaki Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Drool worthy is a souped up Mac Plus with 4 meg RAM and a 20MB hard drive that connected to floppy disk port. I still have them along with Mac Centris 610 and PowerPC upgrade card, and a Powerbook Duo 280c with 500mb hard drive (largest 2.5" SCSI drive when everyone stopped making 2.5" SCSI drive completely) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickR Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 (edited) An update: I got it working! Just in case anyone else has a similar problem, here is what I did: First, go to this site and download PC_MAC.ZIP: http://www.macgeek.org/downloads/ (I've attached the zip file to this post in case that site ever gets deleted). Open the zip file and follow the instructions in the "readme" file. This will create a Mac disk containing the stuffit expander installer from your PC. I then put that floppy in my Mac and it installed Stuffit Expander just fine. Now I'm able to copy over ".SIT" files using standard PC floppies and open the files using Stuffit. Thank you all for your help, but especially Ed in SoDak. Great guy, very helpful. Ed went above and beyond to help me solve this. You meet the nicest people here on AtariAge. Thanks. PC_Mac.zip Edited July 5, 2014 by RickR 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed in SoDak Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) Winner winner, chicken dinner! I'm happy to help, but I think you made better progress than I did! You must have 20 dud copies of Solitare.xxx floating around by now, lol. I've "Mac'd my head" against a wall many a time and it can be frustrating until all the proper pieces are in place and set up correctly. I renamed my computer Whack 'n' Toss for when I get too fed up with it. But it's always a good feeling to finally figure something out that opens the way to a bunch of new things to try out. I keep a cheat sheet for some of the oddball things which I don't need to do very often. I forget how the heck I did something and have to reinvent the wheel till I remember my cheats file, except I also forgot where that is! Then it's Find File to the rescue once again. It's been fun for me as well, digging out some of my old discarded Macs that once upon a time were my primary work machines. I got a lot done with all of them. I guess that's why they never hit the trash heap, as they still hold a value to me. I still use some of the programs from those early years, and my current Mac is a Mirror Door Mac, one of the last models that still supports the Classic OS. I refuse to leave my favorite old, but clean and simple apps behind. -Ed Edited July 6, 2014 by Ed in SoDak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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