Saying goodbye to my Jaguar kiosk ...

[+Saturn]

Congratulations Saturn!!    

Now we wait a pic of the kiosk in the new home  

 

Thanks, t.skid! As soon as this baby arrives, (and I stop hyperventilating) I'll post a pic of this AWESOME KIOSK! This rules!

 

Saturn

[+Saturn]

Have not been able to get on for a while, but wanted to thank Saturn for giving my Jag kiosk a good home ... and meeting my reserve.  

 

You're very welcome! I've been searching for one of these for way too long!

 

Saturn

 

I think I'm about at the end of my pre-move load lightening.  Probably won't see me selling on eBay too much for a while ... at least until I decide to sell the new-in-a-sealed-box Crazy Climber I have.  

 

D'oh!

[jaysmith2000]

Congratulations Saturn!!    

Now we wait a pic of the kiosk in the new home  

 

Thanks, t.skid! As soon as this baby arrives, (and I stop hyperventilating) I'll post a pic of this AWESOME KIOSK! This rules!

 

Saturn

 

I love the excitement you have Saturn! I know exactly where you're coming from.....It's so cool when you start adding the "big time" items to your collection. Way to go, you won't regret it, the Kiosks are awesome!

 

Jason

[+Saturn]

Congratulations Saturn!!    

Now we wait a pic of the kiosk in the new home  

 

Thanks, t.skid! As soon as this baby arrives, (and I stop hyperventilating) I'll post a pic of this AWESOME KIOSK! This rules!

 

Saturn

 

I love the excitement you have Saturn! I know exactly where you're coming from.....It's so cool when you start adding the "big time" items to your collection. Way to go, you won't regret it, the Kiosks are awesome!

 

Jason

 

Thanks Jaysmith! This is a very exciting event for me. I finally scored something that I thought was completely out of reach, plus I have the challenge of trying to plan out the details while working in excess of twelve hours a day and having roughly 34 minutes per day to spend online replying to emails and reading messages at this awesome forum! This is fun!

 

Saturn

[jwhyrock]

I hadn't even heard about gaming kiosks until I saw this forum post. I would have to say if I had a Kiosk I would make it a Dreamcast or a Saturn one. How do you go about finding them/making them? How much are they and what exactly is it? Sounds cool.

[Thunderbird]

I hadn't even heard about gaming kiosks until I saw this forum post.  I would have to say if I had a Kiosk I would make it a Dreamcast or a Saturn one.  How do you go about finding them/making them?  How much are they and what exactly is it?  Sounds cool.

 

At this point your best bet is going to have to be ebay ot flea markets or classic gaming shows, because there are no more kiosks for those two systems out in stores anymore.

 

Some people were lucky and worked at a store that was throwing out a kiosk and got to take it home, other people have been known to buy the kiosks from the manufacturer new.

 

Price depends on condition and rarity... judging from this auction, it looks like Jaguar Kiosks are rare and worth a lot!

[Jayson]

I hadn't even heard about gaming kiosks until I saw this forum post.  I would have to say if I had a Kiosk I would make it a Dreamcast or a Saturn one.  How do you go about finding them/making them?  How much are they and what exactly is it?  Sounds cool.

 

I picked up my Dreamcast kiosk, minus only the console and controllers, at an EB for only $75. That was pretty cheap considering it had a nice little 13" TV in it and was in good shape. My ever-loving wife actually spotted it for me. With the sale of my Jag kiosk, that is the only full store display kiosk I still have.

[jwhyrock]

I like it. I guess it would be cool to have a kiosk, but it would have to be in addition to my current setup. I wouldn't be able to lay on my couch and drink beer as easily. =)

[jaysmith2000]

I hadn't even heard about gaming kiosks until I saw this forum post.  I would have to say if I had a Kiosk I would make it a Dreamcast or a Saturn one.  How do you go about finding them/making them?  How much are they and what exactly is it?  Sounds cool.

 

I picked up my Dreamcast kiosk, minus only the console and controllers, at an EB for only $75. That was pretty cheap considering it had a nice little 13" TV in it and was in good shape. My ever-loving wife actually spotted it for me. With the sale of my Jag kiosk, that is the only full store display kiosk I still have.

 

That's a GREAT score Jayson! I really like the Dreamcast Kiosk (not as much as the Jag), but it's still very cool....Heck for $75 you couldn't have done any better!

 

Jason

[jwhyrock]

I don't know which kiosk I like better between the two. Value wise I'm sure the Jaguar kiosk would be worth much more for collector's value, but the design on the DC one is pretty sleek and nice. Admittedly the Jaguar logo on the top kicks major ass. A bigger screen size to make it look more arcade like would be perfect for the DC kiosk.

[Thunderbird]

I don't know which kiosk I like better between the two.  Value wise I'm sure the Jaguar kiosk would be worth much more for collector's value, but the design on the DC one is pretty sleek and nice.  Admittedly the Jaguar logo on the top kicks major ass.  A bigger screen size to make it look more arcade like would be perfect for the DC kiosk.

 

The Jaguar Kiosk is a lot larger and heavier and looks more like a real arcade machine. It's definitely more rare and will probably achieve more value because of all this.

[Jayson]

I know it is blasphamy on this forum, but I consider the Dreamcast to be a much better system than the Jag with LOTS more great games. When the decision came to get rid of one or the other ... I did not even hesitate.

 

I wonder too what history will say. The Jag was always a mediocre system with a less than mediocre game library that was really never embraced by anyone except the Atari faithful and failed miserably. On the other hand the DC was a good system with a great library that was embraced by hardcore gamers and also failed - proving that the hardcore gamer was not enough to keep a system afloat in the modern era. A system has to be adopted by the mass gamer.

 

I think the Dreamcast will go down as a system of the hardcore gamer and will be very sought after in the future.

[Thunderbird]

I know it is blasphamy on this forum, but I consider the Dreamcast to be a much better system than the Jag with LOTS more great games.  When the decision came to get rid of one or the other ... I did not even hesitate.

 

I wonder too what history will say.  The Jag was always a mediocre system with a less than mediocre game library that was really never embraced by anyone except the Atari faithful and failed miserably.  On the other hand the DC was a good system with a great library that was embraced by hardcore gamers and also failed - proving that the hardcore gamer was not enough to keep a system afloat in the modern era.  A system has to be adopted by the mass gamer.

 

I think the Dreamcast will go down as a system of the hardcore gamer and will be very sought after in the future.

 

 

The Dreamcast failed in record time.

 

It will go down in history as another system, like the Jaguar, which was cutting edge at the moment of release, only to quickly become rlegated to mediocrity by subsequent more powerful systems (or the pre-release hype of them). It too was embraced by loyal fans, had a handful of exceptional games (and a lot of stinkers), and was also abandoned feverishly by developers looking for the next bandwagon.

 

The Jaguar and Dreamcast are almost brothers!

[Jayson]

The thing that killed the Jag was poor games. With rare exceptions, the games that came out with the Jag were not even beating the SNES and Genesis games that were coming out at the time. The DC handily beat its main competition, the Playstation, in the games department.

 

The Jag was never widely adopted by even core gamers. While the DC enjoyed, and still enjoys, a great reputation with core gamers.

 

While they were both systems that failed rapidly, the failure of the DC pales in comparison to how badly the Jag was handled by Atari. Atari could never even get full distribution on the Jag at major retailers.

[Thunderbird]

The thing that killed the Jag was poor games.  With rare exceptions, the games that came out with the Jag were not even beating the SNES and Genesis games that were coming out at the time.  The DC handily beat its main competition, the Playstation, in the games department.

 

As a newcomer to the Jag scene, I can forgive you for your belief in the history as recounter (i.e. rewritten) by the video game rags, and countless fanboys.

 

In a nutshell, you are completely wrong. The games that came out with the Jag were light-years ahead of the SNES and Genesis (the competition at the time). Reviews of the games that came out with the jag were glowing. Cybermorph was compared to Super-FX enhanced "Starfox" and starfox was toast. Genesis had nothing to compare. Even weak games like "Trevor McFurr" blew away the other systems with their low-res low color screens and 8-bit sound effects.

 

Then you had games like AvP, and Iron Soldier, and Tempest 2000, which were all heavily praised by the reviewers. They received many awards and good press.

 

Soom, the 32X came out, and noise started coming from Nintendo and Sony about their super-duper new systems. Then, for some reason, the press started changing their tune about the Jaguar. Suddenly, games that were awesome months before were "16-bitty" and games which were OBVIOUSLY superior to their counterparts on other systems were given lower ratings in side-by-side comparisons.

 

Reviewers who praised the jag at it's release suddenly developed amnesia and deny they ever said anything good about the Jag. (Even ones that went on national TV and praised it). The Jag became a cool thing to bash without any reason. Soon the bashing took on a life of it's own, and reviewers published "myths" about the Jaguar as factual information, and others took the "myths" as gospel and repeated it to their readers.

 

After a while, the truth became lost and was replaced by a bunch of half-truths, lies, jokes, and outright misinformation.

 

Coming in at this late date, you are really not getting the proper perspective, and anything you read out there in the big wide world is totally tainted by this whole smear campaign which happened to the jaguar and took on a life of it's own.

 

People who lived through the experience are dubbed "fanboys" and really cannot do much to help.

 

 

 

The Jag was never widely adopted by even core gamers.  While the DC enjoyed, and still enjoys, a great reputation with core gamers.

 

The main reason for the widespread interest in the Dreamcast has a lot more to do with the fact that it was so easy to hack and pirate games for, or run an O.S. like linux on than anything else.

 

While they were both systems that failed rapidly, the failure of the DC pales in comparison to how badly the Jag was handled by Atari.  Atari could never even get full distribution on the Jag at major retailers.

 

This has more to do with the fact that the Jag wasn't marketed properly, and Atari's cheapness than any faults with the Jaguar hardware itself. The Jaguar WAS in major chains like Babbages, and Electronics Boutique, and Best Buy... the places it never penetrated were in stores where the manufacturer PAYS the RETAILER for shelf-space like Wal-Mart, and that type of location. At the time Atari was pretty much a tiny player and never had the resources for such marketing.

 

Sega blew more money on the dreamcast in one month than Atari did in the entire lifetime of the Jaguar. They had the money to blow on a dead system, and blew it all in one huge implosion. It was the fastest death of any game system since the "32X" Fiasco.

[Jayson]

Newcomer? Son, don’t mistake length of time participating in a fan site with gaming experience. As someone who played his first arcade video game in 1973 as a teenager, bought every new system as it came out since the ColecoVision (except the TurboDuo which I still don't have), has a collection of video game magazines that go back to issue 2 of Electronic Games, a collection of over 80 consoles, and lived as an adult through the time you are talking about, I can safely say you are deluding yourself.

 

While the hardware of the Jag got roundly praised the games got thoroughly ragged with rare exceptions from the beginning. Any first-year gamer will tell you that either the Genesis or SNES had way more games with better play value than the Jag. To maintain otherwise is a fanboy attitude.

 

Yes, the DC died faster. But it also sold many times what the Jag did. I would not even call what Atari gave the Jag a life. Yeah it ended up staying around about three years with marginal distribution, but anyone who was paying attention knew it was on life support after six months.

 

While I’m proud of my collection of almost 70 Jag games (including prototypes) I don’t let my love of Atari blind me to industry facts.

[Thunderbird]

Newcomer?  Son, don’t mistake length of time participating in a fan site with gaming experience.  As someone who played his first arcade video game in 1973 as a teenager, bought every new system as it came out since the ColecoVision (except the TurboDuo which I still don't have), has a collection of video game magazines that go back to issue 2 of Electronic Games, a collection of over 80 consoles, and lived as an adult through the time you are talking about, I can safely say you are deluding yourself.

 

I guess we can change your name to the Atari Minister of Misinformation now...

 

I'm "deluding" myself? Yeah, right-o!

 

While the hardware of the Jag got roundly praised the games got thoroughly ragged with rare exceptions from the beginning.  Any first-year gamer will tell you that either the Genesis or SNES had way more games with better play value than the Jag.  To maintain otherwise is a fanboy attitude.

 

You're obviously a newby at jag-bashing because the tactic of trying to twist your previous false statements into something more or less resembling a true but entirely different statement is a ploy which has long since been scoffed at by true gaming fans. You said before: The thing that killed the Jag was poor games. With rare exceptions, the games that came out with the Jag were not even beating the SNES and Genesis games that were coming out at the time. The DC handily beat its main competition, the Playstation, in the games department. Now suddenly you're trying to backtrack your assertion that the Jag's games didn't even compare well to the SNES and Genesis games and defend your argument by saying the SNES and Genesis had "more" good games.

 

Of course they had "more" games, because they were around longer and had more developers.

 

I think you'll find that the ratio of good games for each system vs. the stimkers for the same system is roughly the same. Perhaps the Jaguar had a slightly higher ratio of excellent titles than the other systems, since the Jaguar did not sell well and didn't attract a lot of 3rd parties trying to shovel crap out knowing they could make a quick buck.

 

In fact, I get the Jaguar's ratio of excellent titles is much better than SNES and Genesis.

 

Your argument twisting tactics are tired and weak.

[jwhyrock]

I have to agree with Jayson. Now I wasn't born until 77', but I did start gaming on an Atari 2600 when I was like 4 or 5. I've always bought Sega first, and pretty much every new system that came out. I also never owned a Turbografx, or Duo or whatever. I wasn't exactly studying the market, but I was definitely along for the ride. I can't believe that the Dreamcast failed quicker than the Jaguar. I mean the library of DC games alone would make it almost impossible to say that the Jaguar lasted for a longer amount of time.

 

Nonetheless that's not really important to the argument at hand. The Dreamcast is a brilliant system. I like my Jaguar just fine, but 90% of the games suck ass. I don't think Jayson was comparing the graphical or technological capabilities of the Jag vs. the Genesis or SNES, but just the fact that the games themselves tended to be better developed, and overall better games on the Genesis and SNES. I mean I buy games because I want to play them. At the time we had a cool rental store which focused on Jag and 3DO and other less well known systems. They had several booths where you could try the games out and play them as long as you wanted to pay. They also rented them. I played a lot of Jag games there, and most of them sucked ass, and I think most people would be hard pressed to argue, unless you just want to defend "Atari Honor" or be a fanboy as was previously said. I couldn't even rent 3DO or Jaguar games at most places if any that I can recall. To say that DC was only popular because it could be hacked is not only ridiculous, but stupid. I mean are the hackers and pirates the majority or the minority? Quite a few people I knew owned Dreamcasts and none of them were hacking away. It's a damn good system. None of my friends owned a Jaguar, and only one friend owned a 3DO (I'm just using 3DO as an example of a system that failed) I was borrowing my friend's PS2 for a very long time, and I was still playing my DC, because it has some very cool features and great games. Very original features and games. I mean the memory card feature that allows you to play it like a portable system, and download stuff is ingenious. The internet hook-up (albeit not very successful in the States) was awesome, and the library of games was quite impressive considering it was losing the marketing battle. The DC is way better in every way than the original PS. It just happened to be released at a bad time when newer systems were on the way. Real gamers know the DC was a kick ass system just like the Saturn was kick ass. I have a lot of respect for Atari's attempt at success, and for what they were able to release, but If I had to choose between the Jag and DC I would ask myself this question: "hmmm 4 or 5 truly "good" games on the Jag, or a whole lot of "great" games on the DC, which to choose?..."

[t.skid]

For what is worth, I agree with T-Bird. And, for me Jaguar have a lot of good games, not only "4 or 5". Indeed, there some bad titles, and a lot of very good.

 

My 2 cents

[kevincal]

I also have to agree with T-bird....The reason people have this misconception of most Jag games stinking is because nearly all the gaming mags ragged on it...So even subconsciously people scoff at Jag games because of all the crap they've read, even though they never played them. It's sad when people compare Jag games to SNES and Genesis games...and in some cases it's true that the games are identical because of the lack of dedicated, driven programming....(i.e...they only used the 68000) So really it's not the Jag's fault it's the programmers fault and of course Atari (the Tramiels) should have done something about it... oh well...coulda woulda shoulda..lol..

[jwhyrock]

"These people"? Ummm are you even reading our posts? We've already stated that we've (excuse me for speaking on Jayson's behalf) been playing videogames our whole lives. So even though I've owned almost every videogame system ever released, bought my Atari Jaguar, bought several games for the Jaguar, and rented and tried out several other games for the Jaguar, I'm somehow being psychologically manipulated by gaming magazines to hate the Jaguar?

 

I was using the number "5 or 6" as an example. You state there was this amazing plethora of "good" Jag games. The only games I can think that aspire to this adjective would be the following, and feel free to add some more to the list as I'd like to know about any "good" game for the Jaguar:

 

Battlesphere (Never played it, but everyone raves about it)

Battlemorph (Never played it, but everyone raves about it)

AvP

Tempest 2K

Towers 2 (Just for the sake of some good reviews I've heard, debateable)

 

Those are the games I would consider good. They are original and still fun to play.

 

Do we include ports of other games such as: Doom, Wolfenstein, etc. etc.?

We could I guess. I still enjoy Wolfenstein (although if someone could tell me if it's possible to get all the secrets I would appreciate it, never seemed to be able to and I was always very very thorough). There were other games which I'm sure we're fun, but I wouldn't necessarily consider them something special. There were really not that many great games worth notice on the Jaguar, and a lot of them we're pathetic. I like my Jaguar very much, but I still stand by the fact (or opinion for you loyalists) that the majority of Jaguar games were a pit of mediocrity at best.

 

My interpretation of Jayson's comparison of the SNES and Genesis to the Jaguar was to illustrate how disappointing most of the titles on the Jag were considering the superior technology of the Jaguar. No one (I think) is arguing why the Jaguar was a failure (no 3rd party support, poor management, etc. etc.).

 

I've never allowed someone's review or opinion on a game supercede my own experience. I usually don't agree with most reviews. I still enjoy playing all my old systems. I just bought Alex Kidd in Miracle World again for the Sega Master System, and was playing Monopoly and Wonder Boy on it the other night with friends.

 

Overall the Jaguar was a disappointment whereas I feel that the Dreamcast was a success.

[K3V]

I was using the number "5 or 6" as an example.  You state there was this amazing plethora of "good" Jag games.  The only games I can think that aspire to this adjective would be the following, and feel free to add some more to the list as I'd like to know about any "good" game for the Jaguar:

 

Battlesphere (Never played it, but everyone raves about it)

Battlemorph (Never played it, but everyone raves about it)

AvP

Tempest 2K

Towers 2 (Just for the sake of some good reviews I've heard, debateable)

 

The fact that you haven't played 3 of the 5 games you list makes your opinion on the subject questionable at best.

 

"Know thy enemy" would apply here.

 

-Kevin

[jwhyrock]

I own AvP, Tempest 2K, Cybermorph, and Wolfenstein 3D. True on me not knowing about the games I haven't played. Battlesphere was released much later after the Jaguar had it's demise, and Battlemorph was on the Jag CD which I never bought. I didn't even realize that the Jaguar community was still producing software which is cool. The Jag CD was and is too expensive for casual gaming. The library of games for the CD is just too small for me to have wanted to invest in it. I was not very impressed with the titles I playtested on the CD or with most of the cartridge games I played. I did put quite a bit of time into finding out good games to get for the system. There weren't many and that's why my game library is relatively small. I didn't see the point in forking out 50 or so dollars at that time on average or poor quality games. I was lucky enough to be able to rent a majority of the games I played so I didn't have to waste the money on them. In hindsight it would have been nice to have them for the collector value, but I only recently discovered Jaguar stuff was actually worth something. I dug it out about a month ago, and in a fit of nostalgia went on Ebay looking around. Hence how I ended up finding this forum... Oh yeah I forgot to add Iron Soldier to the list of good games. (Mine's coming in the mail hopefully soon)

[Thunderbird]

I own AvP, Tempest 2K, Cybermorph, and Wolfenstein 3D.  True on me not knowing about the games I haven't played.  Battlesphere was released much later after the Jaguar had it's demise, and Battlemorph was on the Jag CD which I never bought.  I didn't even realize that the Jaguar community was still producing software which is cool.

 

There are plenty of other great games that weren't on your list that you never bothered to mention. Iron Soldier 1 and 2 were both amazing titles which the SNES and Genesis couldn't possibly equal. Missile Command 3D is another fabulous title. You would never see Rayman on a SNES or Genesis either.

 

The Jag CD was and is too expensive for casual gaming.  The library of games for the CD is just too small for me to have wanted to invest in it.  I was not very impressed with the titles I playtested on the CD or with most of the cartridge games I played.

 

When the Tramiels sold off Atari the CD units were selling in malls for $35-$50 at E.B. and Babbages. You can't say this is too expensive. VLM alone was worth the price (something you wouldn't find on an SNES or Genesis. Heck, even the super-duper Dreamcast had a very crappy CD player).

[Thunderbird]

"These people"?  Ummm are you even reading our posts?  We've already stated that we've (excuse me for speaking on Jayson's behalf) been playing videogames our whole lives.  So even though I've owned almost every videogame system ever released, bought my Atari Jaguar, bought several games for the Jaguar, and rented and tried out several other games for the Jaguar, I'm somehow being psychologically manipulated by gaming magazines to hate the Jaguar?   .

 

I think that you and Jayson have been psychologically influenced, and you probably don't even know it.

 

Look, if every single thing you read or see or hear about a system is a lie, unless you own the system and are familiar with the system, you really don't have any basis for comparison to fact. This tends to taint your opinions or at least leave you with impressions or thoughts you wouldn't have if you had read factual accounts.

 

You admit that you've only had limited exposure to the Jag, and very little exposure to some of it's top titles.

 

If you compare the titles to the contemporary titles from the time of the release, you'll see the hardware of the Jag really blows away the SNES and Genesis.

 

Most people have never heard or seen a real Jag in action, and when they see one they are shocked at the quality of the games. They always have a preconceived notion of the Jaguar being really awful and couldn't even do SNES or Genesis games.

 

I think you guys are influenced this way and don't even know it.