Saying goodbye to my Jaguar kiosk ...

[jwhyrock]

I had way more than limited exposure to the Jag as you put it. I've played a lot of Jag games. This isn't supposed to be a pissing contest. Just because I don't hack my Jag and turn my control pad into a rotary one (which kicks ass), does not mean I don't know what I'm talking about. Just because I haven't played a few of the actual good games on the system, does not mean I didn't play others.

 

I'll repeat myself one more time about the SNES and Genesis so you will understand it. No one is comparing the hardware here. What's being compared is the quality of programming and software. Yes I agree there are great Jaguar games, just not many of them. I can't believe you keep trying to turn this into a SNES/Genesis vs. the Jaguar. Obviously the Jag is light years ahead of those systems. It just didn't live up to it's potential other than a few gems like your Battlesphere which I saw a video clip of.

 

At the time I was interested in the Jag CD it was extremely expensive. Had I known about the mark down I would have picked one up. C'est la vie. I am not trying to rag on the Jaguar. I was supporting intelligent commentary by someone who obviously has had more than limited exposure to games and especially the Jaguar.

 

As to the Dreamcast, if the CD player wasn't that great who cares? I had to repair mine once, but CD players do break down. What's important was the innovation and software of the system. If you don't dig the DC that's your opinion. I think a lot of people do and if they were to compare the two (which wouldn't exactly be fair due to tech differences) it's obvious who they would choose unless they're (like you appear to be) a huge Atari fan. I'm a fan of good gaming, and when I get my copy of Towers 2 and Iron Soldier (which I have played before) I will play the Hell out of them.

[Jayson]

Sorry, T-Bird, no psych job going here. Like I said, I've been gaming for thirty years now and seen about everything happen. I think you might want to leave the Atari-only forums a little more often and quit breathing the vapors here. My experience is that hardcore Jag fans have developed a bunker mentality with a healthy dose of paranoia when it comes to their favorite system.

 

I know nobody can tell me anything bad about my favorite system ... the Vectrex.

[Thunderbird]

Just because I haven't played a few of the actual good games on the system, does not mean I didn't play others.

 

By your own admission, and listing, you played 40% of the games you thought were good. Q.E.D.

 

I'll repeat myself one more time about the SNES and Genesis so you will understand it.  No one is comparing the hardware here.

 

Jayson did. Then he tried to make it look like he was comparing the numbers of games released. But if you read what he said, he was blindly repeating the ideological rantings of Jag-bashers everywhere in saying that the Jaguar couldn't even do games as good as the SNES and Genesis.

 

What's being compared is the quality of programming and software.  Yes I agree there are great Jaguar games, just not many of them.  I can't believe you keep trying to turn this into a SNES/Genesis vs. the Jaguar.  Obviously the Jag is light years ahead of those systems.  It just didn't live up to it's potential other than a few gems like your Battlesphere which I saw a video clip of.

 

I assert one more time that the Jag has a better ratio of great games vs. stinkers than any of the systems you mention. Just because it had FEWER great games is nothing against the system. It just had fewer games in total. Naturally, it's not going to rack up as many hits since it wasn't around as long.

[Thunderbird]

Sorry, T-Bird, no psych job going here.  Like I said, I've been gaming for thirty years now and seen about everything happen.  I think you might want to leave the Atari-only forums a little more often and quit breathing the vapors here.  My experience is that hardcore Jag fans have developed a bunker mentality with a healthy dose of paranoia when it comes to their favorite system.

 

I know nobody can tell me anything bad about my favorite system ... the Vectrex.  

 

 

The psych job is so well-done you don't even know you are a victim. I'm sorry for you.

 

Open your eyes.

[jaysmith2000]

Sorry, T-Bird, no psych job going here.  Like I said, I've been gaming for thirty years now and seen about everything happen.  I think you might want to leave the Atari-only forums a little more often and quit breathing the vapors here.  My experience is that hardcore Jag fans have developed a bunker mentality with a healthy dose of paranoia when it comes to their favorite system.

 

I know nobody can tell me anything bad about my favorite system ... the Vectrex.  

 

30 Years? Ok, I'm trying to figure this out. Are you referering to the first arcade games or a home system like PONG? Just curious what were you playing in '73? I guess I need to read a history of video games book. My video game life started with the 2600 in the late 70's.

 

Jason

[jwhyrock]

By my own admission 40%?... I didn't even list every game I've owned, rented, or played. You're pulling number's out of your backside to support your losing argument that the Jaguar had a high ratio of great games to crap games. I suppose the only way to bury this pointless topic is to have a complete list of games for the Jaguar seperated by the Jag console and CD system. Then have a rating system for each game that mutiple people can vote on and rate a value on each game. Then we can move some games to the good or great category, and move the others to the mediocre/crap category. If we did this I think the results would speak for themselves.

 

Thunderbird's blind love of this dead system apparently is causing him to attack the integrity of several seasoned gamers who have participated in the evolution of the gaming industry firsthand. Apparently no matter how much experience one has with a videogame system or systems it doesn't count for anything if you make the sin of criticizing some aspects of the Jaguar. If you haven't played 100% of the library of games including protos and alphas, apparently you are not qualified to comment on it. Even if you've played the majority of titles.

 

I would bet everyone here has a healthy respect and in many cases "love" for Atari and the Jaguar. Myself included. I am just a realist and pointing out what should be obvious facts about the quality of software for a large portion of Jag titles. I can't believe someone could still "bunker" down in the mentality of that most of the games were great regardless of how many people (fans and owners, not just reviewers) feel otherwise. That is a truly paranoid fanboy mentality. I am really not trying to insult anyone who owns/plays/programs on a Jaguar. I truly do enjoy the system and some of it's games.

[Punisher5.0]

I know it is blasphamy on this forum, but I consider the Dreamcast to be a much better system than the Jag with LOTS more great games.  When the decision came to get rid of one or the other ... I did not even hesitate.

 

I wonder too what history will say.  The Jag was always a mediocre system with a less than mediocre game library that was really never embraced by anyone except the Atari faithful and failed miserably.  On the other hand the DC was a good system with a great library that was embraced by hardcore gamers and also failed - proving that the hardcore gamer was not enough to keep a system afloat in the modern era.  A system has to be adopted by the mass gamer.

 

I think the Dreamcast will go down as a system of the hardcore gamer and will be very sought after in the future.

 

I like the Dreamcast but that Kiosk is rather dull looking. It's a shame that the Dreamcast came and went so fast. It had a lot of good games and a kick ass chipset. The biggest problem with the Dreamcast is that their made of low quality. So you are right about how they will be very sought after in the future because it'll be hard to find a working one. 10 years from now, I'm confident that my Jaguar will still be working.

[SuperDork3000]

Have any of you guys ever seen the Virtual Boy kiosk? That one is really cool looking

[SuperDork3000]

I found a pic of the virtual boy kiosk

http://www.virtual-boy.org/bigdemounit.htm

[Thunderbird]

By my own admission 40%?... I didn't even list every game I've owned, rented, or played.  You're pulling number's out of your backside to support your losing argument that the Jaguar had a high ratio of great games to crap games.

 

Oh. And I suppose a giant space alien stole your password and posted:

 

I was using the number "5 or 6" as an example. You state there was this amazing plethora of "good" Jag games. The only games I can think that aspire to this adjective would be the following, and feel free to add some more to the list as I'd like to know about any "good" game for the Jaguar:  

 

Battlesphere (Never played it, but everyone raves about it)  

Battlemorph (Never played it, but everyone raves about it)  

AvP  

Tempest 2K  

Towers 2 (Just for the sake of some good reviews I've heard, debateable)  

 

Those are the games I would consider good. They are original and still fun to play.  

 

Last time I checked, 2 out of 5 is 40%.

 

The only person here pulling things out of his backside is the person making judgements about a system having never played 60% of the games he thinks are good.

 

 

Thunderbird's blind love of this dead system apparently is causing him to attack the integrity of several seasoned gamers who have participated in the evolution of the gaming industry firsthand.

 

Anyone basing their entire argument on hearsay has absolutely no integrity whatsoever.

 

40%! LOL!

 

Apparently no matter how much experience one has with a videogame system or systems it doesn't count for anything if you make the sin of criticizing some aspects of the Jaguar.  If you haven't played 100% of the library of games including protos and alphas, apparently you are not qualified to comment on it.  Even if you've played the majority of titles.

 

This is not about criticizing the Jaguar, it's about mindlessly parroting false complaints about the Jaguar and then admitting to having only played 40% of the good titles, and then going off on a wild tirade about how awesome of a gamer you are and that somehow makes your totally bogus opinion (which is based on rumors and falsehoods, rather than experience) meritous.

 

40% Bwhahahahahahahaaahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

[kevincal]

By my own admission 40%?... I didn't even list every game I've owned, rented, or played.  You're pulling number's out of your backside to support your losing argument that the Jaguar had a high ratio of great games to crap games.

 

Oh. And I suppose a giant space alien stole your password and posted:

 

I was using the number "5 or 6" as an example. You state there was this amazing plethora of "good" Jag games. The only games I can think that aspire to this adjective would be the following, and feel free to add some more to the list as I'd like to know about any "good" game for the Jaguar:  

 

Battlesphere (Never played it, but everyone raves about it)  

Battlemorph (Never played it, but everyone raves about it)  

AvP  

Tempest 2K  

Towers 2 (Just for the sake of some good reviews I've heard, debateable)  

 

Those are the games I would consider good. They are original and still fun to play.  

 

Last time I checked, 2 out of 5 is 40%.

 

The only person here pulling things out of his backside is the person making judgements about a system having never played 60% of the games he thinks are good.

 

 

Thunderbird's blind love of this dead system apparently is causing him to attack the integrity of several seasoned gamers who have participated in the evolution of the gaming industry firsthand.

 

Anyone basing their entire argument on hearsay has absolutely no integrity whatsoever.

 

40%! LOL!

 

Apparently no matter how much experience one has with a videogame system or systems it doesn't count for anything if you make the sin of criticizing some aspects of the Jaguar.  If you haven't played 100% of the library of games including protos and alphas, apparently you are not qualified to comment on it.  Even if you've played the majority of titles.

 

This is not about criticizing the Jaguar, it's about mindlessly parroting false complaints about the Jaguar and then admitting to having only played 40% of the good titles, and then going off on a wild tirade about how awesome of a gamer you are and that somehow makes your totally bogus opinion (which is based on rumors and falsehoods, rather than experience) meritous.

 

40% Bwhahahahahahahaaahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

 

...hehe, hey T-Bird..Have you EVER lost an argument? lmao..

[jwhyrock]

It seems the apparently young and immature T-Bird is more interested in arguing for the sake of argument rather than actually debate views in an intelligent manner. I've already rebuked the statement's he's made on how many titles I've "played" or considered "good". I've repeated myself several times in stating I've rented and played a lot of the games (albeit not every single one) for the Jaguar including CD titles.

 

The titles I chose to be good or great were based on my experience with the titles or by hearing extremely rave reviews from several different gamers on the ones I haven't played. It's true I did not need to include the titles I hadn't played, but I figured everyone would flame me if I didn't. I also clearly stated that should someone think of games I'd forgotten or chosen not to include to post the titles, and why they think they were a good game. This way we could create dialogue about the Jaguar that could actually be positive rather than this rant for rant about SNES/Genesis vs. Jaguar or whatever has upset T-Bird so much.

 

Rather than clearly reading my posts he chooses to see what he wants and play word games to get in the last word . Maybe my standards are higher than his regarding game quality. I'm objective and don't mind exchanging ideas on why games are good or not good. Kevincal put it best "lmao T-Bird, do you ever lose an argument?".

 

Changing gears I think the Dreamcast kiosk was simple, but cool and post-modernistic. I Like the color scheme and the dimples or whatever you call the all around the outside. The Jag kiosk does kick mega ass though. The Virtua Boy one was cool too. As to the DC being made poorly, I've had to repair one $25, and that was after over 2 years of use. Not a bad price to pay for a great system. The repair to the CD player is simple and universal. It's the same thing they would do for a pooped out PS2. I think that in the future it will not be a big deal to have one repaired. We'll see I guess. The Dreamcast is definitely my favorite system. I will always pull out my Jaguar in the future though.

[Thunderbird]

It seems the apparently young and immature T-Bird is more interested in arguing for the sake of argument rather than actually debate views in an intelligent manner.  I've already rebuked the statement's he's made on how many titles I've "played" or considered "good".  I've repeated myself several times in stating I've rented and played a lot of the games (albeit not every single one) for the Jaguar including CD titles.  

 

Blah blah blah. The jwhyrock spin machine is on overdrive now.

 

Backpedal all you want. Try and insult me all you want. Change your story all you want. It doesn't change the fact that everything you are saying now contradicts your original statements about the jaguar and your lack of experience playing it.

 

Your change your tune faster than a cheap transistor radio.

[jwhyrock]

I'm hardly backpedaling and I am not changing a single thing about any statement I've made in this forum. The list I made was for great games for the system. Not a list of every game I've played. I've tried to get you to absorb this for a while now in this forum. Let me repeat myself: the list I made is a list of great games for the Atari Jaguar, NOT a list of games I've played. Ok if you are following me so far then I will proceed. I am not inexperienced in playing Jaguar games. I've played a ton of them when we had a place that let us play them there without purchasing them. I utilized the store for many months and played many titles. Most of the games I played on the Jaguar were not very good (Of course this is my opinion). I bought games that I thought were great. I played Iron Soldier as well, and forgot to include that title to my small list. The list is small, because I don't think there are many great games for the system and NOT and I repeat NOT because I haven't played many games. That's why you're carefully calculated percentages are far from accurate. The reason I insulted you was due to your tone and attitude in your posts. If I missed a few great games then great tell me what they are, and maybe I'll pick them up and see what I was missing. Not playing every single title on the system does not make me wrong in saying there were not that many exceptional games for the Jaguar. For either one of us to be correct we would have to establish which games were good and which were bad then tally up the numbers and see the results. If anyone wants to assist in this process we could quit the "blah blah blah back and forth crap". I'm happy to say I agree that we disagree.

[kevincal]

By my own admission 40%?... I didn't even list every game I've owned, rented, or played.  You're pulling number's out of your backside to support your losing argument that the Jaguar had a high ratio of great games to crap games.

 

Oh. And I suppose a giant space alien stole your password and posted:

 

I was using the number "5 or 6" as an example. You state there was this amazing plethora of "good" Jag games. The only games I can think that aspire to this adjective would be the following, and feel free to add some more to the list as I'd like to know about any "good" game for the Jaguar:  

 

Battlesphere (Never played it, but everyone raves about it)  

Battlemorph (Never played it, but everyone raves about it)  

AvP  

Tempest 2K  

Towers 2 (Just for the sake of some good reviews I've heard, debateable)  

 

Those are the games I would consider good. They are original and still fun to play.  

 

Last time I checked, 2 out of 5 is 40%.

 

The only person here pulling things out of his backside is the person making judgements about a system having never played 60% of the games he thinks are good.

 

 

Thunderbird's blind love of this dead system apparently is causing him to attack the integrity of several seasoned gamers who have participated in the evolution of the gaming industry firsthand.

 

Anyone basing their entire argument on hearsay has absolutely no integrity whatsoever.

 

40%! LOL!

 

Apparently no matter how much experience one has with a videogame system or systems it doesn't count for anything if you make the sin of criticizing some aspects of the Jaguar.  If you haven't played 100% of the library of games including protos and alphas, apparently you are not qualified to comment on it.  Even if you've played the majority of titles.

 

This is not about criticizing the Jaguar, it's about mindlessly parroting false complaints about the Jaguar and then admitting to having only played 40% of the good titles, and then going off on a wild tirade about how awesome of a gamer you are and that somehow makes your totally bogus opinion (which is based on rumors and falsehoods, rather than experience) meritous.

 

40% Bwhahahahahahahaaahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

 

...hehe, hey T-Bird..Have you EVER lost an argument? lmao..

 

Jwhyrock...The reason I said this is because ever since I've come to this forum or JI2 there have been people come in and bash the Jaguar out of the blue, and it just isn't necessary, which is why people like T-Bird decide to put trolls in their place....you didn't have to come to a Jaguar forum and explain why you think the DC is better that the Jag....Ya know there is a modern gaming forum along with an anything goes forum at AtariAge...your post should have been put there not here. What did you think was gonna happen here when you posted?

[Thunderbird]

I'm hardly backpedaling and I am not changing a single thing about any statement I've made in this forum.  The list I made was for great games for the system.  Not a list of every game I've played.  I've tried to get you to absorb this for a while now in this forum.  Let me repeat myself:  the list I made is a list of great games for the Atari Jaguar, NOT a list of games I've played.  Ok if you are following me so far then I will proceed.  I am not inexperienced in playing Jaguar games.  I've played a ton of them when we had a place that let us play them there without purchasing them.  I utilized the store for many months and played many titles.  Most of the games I played on the Jaguar were not very good (Of course this is my opinion).  I bought games that I thought were great.  I played Iron Soldier as well, and forgot to include that title to my small list.  The list is small, because I don't think there are many great games for the system and NOT and I repeat NOT because I haven't played many games.  That's why you're carefully calculated percentages are far from accurate.  The reason I insulted you was due to your tone and attitude in your posts.  If I missed a few great games then great tell me what they are, and maybe I'll pick them up and see what I was missing.   Not playing every single title on the system does not make me wrong in saying there were not that many exceptional games for the Jaguar.  For either one of us to be correct we would have to establish which games were good and which were bad then tally up the numbers and see the results.  If anyone wants to assist in this process we could quit the "blah blah blah back and forth crap".  I'm happy to say I agree that we disagree.

 

You're wasting your breath. Every time you speak you just contradict your original statements more and more and make yourself look even more like a troll.

[Jayson]

Sorry, T-Bird, no psych job going here.  Like I said, I've been gaming for thirty years now and seen about everything happen.  I think you might want to leave the Atari-only forums a little more often and quit breathing the vapors here.  My experience is that hardcore Jag fans have developed a bunker mentality with a healthy dose of paranoia when it comes to their favorite system.

 

I know nobody can tell me anything bad about my favorite system ... the Vectrex.  

 

30 Years? Ok, I'm trying to figure this out. Are you referering to the first arcade games or a home system like PONG? Just curious what were you playing in '73? I guess I need to read a history of video games book. My video game life started with the 2600 in the late 70's.

Jason

 

Race In Space in a dark arcade in 1973 that a young teenager probably should not have been in. Never forget that first game. Was hooked from then on.

[Jayson]

Just because I haven't played a few of the actual good games on the system, does not mean I didn't play others.

 

By your own admission, and listing, you played 40% of the games you thought were good. Q.E.D.

 

I'll repeat myself one more time about the SNES and Genesis so you will understand it.  No one is comparing the hardware here.

 

Jayson did. Then he tried to make it look like he was comparing the numbers of games released. But if you read what he said, he was blindly repeating the ideological rantings of Jag-bashers everywhere in saying that the Jaguar couldn't even do games as good as the SNES and Genesis.

 

What's being compared is the quality of programming and software.  Yes I agree there are great Jaguar games, just not many of them.  I can't believe you keep trying to turn this into a SNES/Genesis vs. the Jaguar.  Obviously the Jag is light years ahead of those systems.  It just didn't live up to it's potential other than a few gems like your Battlesphere which I saw a video clip of.

 

I assert one more time that the Jag has a better ratio of great games vs. stinkers than any of the systems you mention. Just because it had FEWER great games is nothing against the system. It just had fewer games in total. Naturally, it's not going to rack up as many hits since it wasn't around as long.

 

I compared software playability, not hardware. There is no way the Genesis or SNES hardware can compare to the Jaguar's. It's power was simply squandered. To educate you a little on the difference between playability and just a nice looking game, Enduro on the 2600 plays better than DUI Driving ... uh, Checkered Flag on the Jaguar.

 

Man, if we accept the bird's assertion, the Bally Professional arcade is really kicking butt! It's ratio of great games to stinkers is awesome. Another education point, historically a system (and these are just hypothetical numbers) with 10 good games out of a total library of 20 releases is not going to go down in history as a great system like a system with a hundred good games out of a thousand releases. Look at how many stinkers the 2600 ended up with in its long life. Would anyone seriously put the 2600 and the Jaguar in the same league ... not if you have any perspective on the hobby anyway.

 

jwhyrock, don't bother arguing with the fanboys. It is useless and perhaps even a little tactless. Having participated in these which-system-is-better discussions for 20 years ("Whoa, dude, the Emerson Arcadia rules!"), I can safely say you are not going to change the mind that is too invested in one system. I've already gotten farther into this one than I've bothered to in years. Let it drop.

[patters98]

Objectively, the Jaguar's software line-up is poor compared to other systems. If you own any other systems you realise this. Same for the Lynx. I think it's pretty difficult to argue the contrary. Doesn't stop me from owning them though. This is probably more to do with why they weren't tearaway commercial succeses than a lack of advertising/aggressive marketing.

 

Thunderbird, just because you don't like modern games/think Mario and Zelda are for babies etc.* is your opinion - please remember this.

 

*from another thread I read recently

[jwhyrock]

My intent was never to get into a system war with anyone. I was validating Jayson's point that some (I won't name anyone) argued about. I got sucked into a pointless one way conversation. Obviously I'm clueless and am a bundle of contradictions. I love my Jaguar and play it quite often, but I must have missed the turnoff to the Dreamcast highway. I can't imagine what I was thinking when I bought Towers 2 and Iron Soldier the other day. Must be because I'm a Jaguar basher. Sorry fanboys...

 

Sincerely,

 

Tactless

[Thunderbird]

My intent was never to get into a system war with anyone.  I was validating Jayson's point that some (I won't name anyone) argued about.  I got sucked into a pointless one way conversation.  Obviously I'm clueless and am a bundle of contradictions.  I love my Jaguar and play it quite often, but I must have missed the turnoff to the Dreamcast highway.  I can't imagine what I was thinking when I bought Towers 2 and Iron Soldier the other day.  Must be because I'm a Jaguar basher.  Sorry fanboys...

 

Sincerely,

 

Tactless  

 

And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon!!!

 

Trollboys, sheesh!

[t.skid]

 

And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon!!!

 

Trollboys, sheesh!

 

You know, in Italy we say "...she'd be a wheelbarrow"

[jaysmith2000]

Sorry, T-Bird, no psych job going here.  Like I said, I've been gaming for thirty years now and seen about everything happen.  I think you might want to leave the Atari-only forums a little more often and quit breathing the vapors here.  My experience is that hardcore Jag fans have developed a bunker mentality with a healthy dose of paranoia when it comes to their favorite system.

 

I know nobody can tell me anything bad about my favorite system ... the Vectrex.  

 

30 Years? Ok, I'm trying to figure this out. Are you referering to the first arcade games or a home system like PONG? Just curious what were you playing in '73? I guess I need to read a history of video games book. My video game life started with the 2600 in the late 70's.

Jason

 

Race In Space in a dark arcade in 1973 that a young teenager probably should not have been in. Never forget that first game. Was hooked from then on.

 

Very cool...that's one I have never played. I think my first serious arcade machine was Space Invaders....Ahh....the good 'ole days!

[Jayson]

Race In Space in a dark arcade in 1973 that a young teenager probably should not have been in. Never forget that first game. Was hooked from then on.

 

Very cool...that's one I have never played. I think my first serious arcade machine was Space Invaders....Ahh....the good 'ole days!

 

It was actually an Atari arcade game. Think of an early version of Activision Freeway with space ships replacing the chickens and small asteroids (dots really) replacing the cars, trucks, etc. ANALOG Computing magazine actually did a version of the game for the Atari 8-bit computers. One of those type-it-in things. Was actually a pretty good version though. Still love that game. Set the asteroid count high and it made the hardest varients of Freeway look like a walk across a country dirt road.

[+Saturn]

Holy crap! I knew this thing was going to be awesome, but I had no idea...

 

*runs back to kiosk, smashes knee on coffee table- limps* lol