Anybody have Syzygy controllers that won't work in Stella?

[orion1052003]

Tried Linux, mac, doesn't work. Most Windows it doesn't work. Finally got some action when I downloaded those extra Direct X files on one Windows system anyway. But I have a Mac.

Edited September 2, 2014 by orion1052003

[Forrest]

You mentioned an intermittent connection when you touched the joystick cable. This leads me to believe the connector on the joystick needs investigation, or the USB cable should be replaced. Is there any debris in the connector? Does the USB cable fit tightly in the USB connector on the joystick? It should fit tightly, and does on my black Legacy Engineering USB Atari Joystick.

[orion1052003]

Yes, I replaced the cable, but still have similar problems. When using a new cable, it stopped the problem of the icon flashing on and off, I'm presuming it now has a stable connection. It still will not work in mac and linux, but it did work technically on one Windows system with the additional drivers that were linked to in this thread. So that was very cool, but the joystick had problems working, not centering, and sluggish. However, windows recognized it, and it could finally do something, when you press fire it fires. The directions are right, but after you go a direction, you can't go back the other way without going to the opposite plane first. Left- up-right, rather than left-right, to make it go right in a hurry. Otherwise, two or 3 times back and forth to go right after going left initially. I'm thinking there must be some drivers for mac and linux that would help make the controllers work. As for Windows, I do not know if it will work on other Windows machines or if the directional problems are hardware or software. I can't leave good feedback until they work, although at this point, I'm starting to seriously doubt that will ever happen. Still trying though. Any help appreciated. And needed. Ha.

[orion1052003]

Also, after Stella 4.0, the 2600-daptor suddenly doesn't work as before also. Anyone else have this problem?

[dualcam]

Also, after Stella 4.0, the 2600-daptor suddenly doesn't work as before also. Anyone else have this problem?

 

Can you be more specific? What game, what controller?

 

Tom

[+stephena]

Also, after Stella 4.0, the 2600-daptor suddenly doesn't work as before also. Anyone else have this problem?

 

I am testing this as we speak, in Windows and OSX. Also, more detail (as asked for by Dualcam) would be useful.

[orion1052003]

Paddle Controllers with 2600daptor in Astroblast. Stella 4.0. The guy at Hafner Enterprises i emailed said he had the same problem, and that he was using an earlier version of Stella, in the 3.x variety. Maybe this is just an isolated problem, and I have to try other games to see if the 2600daptor usually doesn't work with Stella 4.0. If so, it could be caused by new additions and changes to the program of course, if not, it could be that the emulator didn't know how to handle the option of joystick or paddle for this one game, Astroblast.

 

As for the Syzygy controllers, no luck in mac or linux, but it does partially work in Windows after those drivers are installed. That was the most progress so far. The thing that seems to be wrong in Windows using this controller, is that it doesn't respond to your directions well. For example, you can go left, but must must move the stick up before moving right. As if it doesn't center. So you can't really play a game normally. If there is a fix for that, the controllers would probably be good to go.

 

I replaced the usb cable, and the intermittent flashing controller icon stabilized when testing in Windows. However, there did not feel like a loose connection from the wire to the unit. I'm guessing the cable was bad, but the joystick mapping or recognizing movement part is probably driving as the same problems described before happened after the new cable was used, except that the controller stayed "recognized" instead of disappearing and reappearing on the computer USB bus.

 

I can't use the controllers yet, but I will still leave good feedback after all these months if anyone can figure out how to make them work.

[Trebor]

Paddle Controllers with 2600daptor in Astroblast. Stella 4.0. The guy at Hafner Enterprises i emailed said he had the same problem, and that he was using an earlier version of Stella, in the 3.x variety. Maybe this is just an isolated problem, and I have to try other games to see if the 2600daptor usually doesn't work with Stella 4.0. If so, it could be caused by new additions and changes to the program of course, if not, it could be that the emulator didn't know how to handle the option of joystick or paddle for this one game, Astroblast.

 

Try both these ROMs and see if either (or both) provides better results for you:

 

Astroblast (Paddle) (1982) (M Network, Hal Finney - INTV) (MT5666) ~.zip

Astroblast (Paddle) (1982) (M Network, Hal Finney - INTV) (MT5666) fixed ~.zip

[+stephena]

OK, now that you have a specific game I can test, I will look into that one further later this evening.

 

Just a note that the controller(s) that a ROM will used depend on what is listed in the internal properties database in Stella. So if the properties for some ROM specify a joystick, then Stella will interpret any input from the 2600-daptor as joystick input, even if you plug in the paddles. So you need to make sure both 'sides of the cable' are matching. That is, the real controller plugged into the 'daptor, and the virtual controller seen by Stella must be the same type.

 

Both of the ROMs provided above from Trebor are recognized the Stella database as being paddle games, so they will interpret any input from the 'daptor as paddle information. If you plug in a joystick, then of course it won't work as you expect.

 

EDIT: I suppose we should probably test on a clean system in a VM or something, to make sure no other software is interfering with this. And in the long run, I probably can't test anything further without having an actual Syzygy controller in my hand, to see first-hand how it (doesn't) work.

 

EDIT2: Also, make sure you don't have an obsolete stella.pro file on your system. This is an external properties database, that may be interfering with the internal properties in Stella. And finally, make sure you're using the latest release (4.1.1) for all testing.

[dualcam]

Astroblast is an unusual case as I believe it's the only game that can be played with either of two different controllers (Star Raiders uses two different controllers but it's joystick must plugged into one specific side and keypad the other) . This is a problem for emulators as they can not reliably tell which controller (joystick or paddles) is plugged into the 2600-daptor - both show up on the X & Y axis. This is also true for the Stelladaptor.

 

Maybe it is possible to have two entries in the ROM list for Astroblast, one for "Astroblast (joystick)" and one "Astroblast (paddles)" with the virtual controller set according, though I suspect the ROM list is expecting a unique ROM image checksum for each entry. Or have a way to manually select the virtual controller.

 

Anyway, this is not a Stella V4.x issue.

 

Tom - 2600-daptor.com (guy at Hafner Enterprises)

 

EDIT: tried above ROM marked "fixed", and it works with paddles in 3.4. So you just need to use the ROM marked with the controller you want to use.

Edited September 18, 2014 by dualcam

[dualcam]

Sorry Stephena - forgot the ability to select the controller is already there.

 

In Stella 4.1.1 on WinXP 32-bit, Astroblast is working with paddles and 2600-daptor. Also works with joystick after changing the Controller type in Game Properties. Not finding a problem here.

 

orion1052003 - have you double checked the controller type in game properties?

 

One minor thing, on the original hardware it plays with Player #2 paddle, but in Stella game properties "swap paddles" is defaulted to yes so it then plays with Player #1 paddle.

 

Tom

Edited September 18, 2014 by dualcam

[orion1052003]

The games I tested the USB controllers with were Pac-man, Space Invaders, and a few random games. I will try some more and list them here. I will check the Stella.pro file.

 

Thanks for all the feedback, no net at home, will get back to you.

[orion1052003]

I was in such a hurry last time, I forgot to say thank you for the ROMS. Thanks! I actually did have the paddle fixed ROM, but didn't realize what it was. The long file names don't always show up on screen unless you click into it. The Astroblast fixed rom works fine with the paddles, when connected to the 2600daptor using Stella 4.0. I may have found a strange bug when I changed both Difficulty settings to A. The normally black screen turned grey. There are some screenshots here. One is the normal screen from another Astroblast rom. The others are the fixed rom version after changing the settings from B to A. The screen changes from black to grey in Stella. I still have to figure out the STELLA.pro file.

[Trebor]

I may have found a strange bug when I changed both Difficulty settings to A. The normally black screen turned grey. There are some screenshots here. One is the normal screen from another Astroblast rom. The others are the fixed rom version after changing the settings from B to A. The screen changes from black to grey in Stella. I still have to figure out the STELLA.pro file.

"DIFFICULTY SWITCHES

RIGHT SWITCH: Set at "B" to play game at regular skill level. Set at "A" to play at accelerated speed (same pace and targets as if score were over 50,000).

LEFT SWITCH: Set at "B" for manual firing mode. Set at "A" for automatic firing. NOTE: Switches can be changed during the game."

http://atariage.com/manual_html_page.html?SoftwareLabelID=985

If you play the game set to "B", regular skill level, and achieve 50,000 points, the screen will turn grey.

In fact, you'll find throughout the game that passing certain points thresholds causes the background color to change.

From the manual linked above:

Score                Big         Small        Spinner        Pulsar        UFO
Range                Rock        Rock
     0- 1,000         10           20            40            80           *
 1,000- 5,000         20           40            80           160           *
 5,000-20,000         30           60           120           240           *
20,000-50,000         40           80           160           320          400
  over 50,000         50          100           200           400          500

Screen background color changes when score goes from one range to another.

[orion1052003]

Right, but this happened when I pressed the buttons and began to play from the beginning. On the screenshots the scores are very low. On a real Atari 2600 I don't think I got a screen change yet, and haven't reached 20,000. I believe I got close or over 5,000, but only noticed a blacks screen so far. On the emulation I can start from reset, change the diffculties from B B to A A, and get the screen change.

[Trebor]

Right, but this happened when I pressed the buttons and began to play from the beginning. On the screenshots the scores are very low. On a real Atari 2600 I don't think I got a screen change yet, and haven't reached 20,000. I believe I got close or over 5,000, but only noticed a blacks screen so far. On the emulation I can start from reset, change the diffculties from B B to A A, and get the screen change.

On a real 2600 (Just tried it on my Woody):

 

The difficulty switch on the left side (closest to Player 1) joystick controls the auto/manual fire.

 

The difficulty switch on the right side (closest to Player 2) controls starting beginner = Black screen, or starting advanced [A] = Grey screen.

 

The chart with points thresholds and color screen changes is applicable to those who start in the beginner mode with a Black screen. Having the advanced [A] mode with a Grey screen set, you are beginning the game at the difficulty level of someone who reached 50,000 in a beginner mode game. You're starting at that 50,000 (Grey screen) game difficulty without the points; your score starts at zero.

[orion1052003]

Well, when I have been playing the last couple of days I used a 7800 with the Harmony Cart and started out at difficulty A A. To me it looks like a static black screen throughout. When I tried the same thing on emulation at the same difficulties, the screen was noticeably grey. Compare the two screenshots. I wonder if I used a real 2600 with a real cartridge, how would it turn out. Perhaps since 50,000 is the last score range mentioned in the manual, perhaps there are no more color changes after that point. So that could be why I never saw any color changes, making it seem not there, by most of the time playing on difficulty A A. Maybe emulator 'grey' is not the same as 2600 grey and the shade is off? I dunno.

 

 

[orion1052003]

Good news on the controllers. As of Stella 4.1.1, they work. I also tried the old cable the controllers came with that had problems mentioned previously, and the new USB cable I bought. The controllers still worked in mac with both cables. I haven't tried it in Windows, on the box that the joystick icon kept flashing or mounting and unmounting on, when I had the old cable plugged in. Or Linux. I will try to test those and let you know. Anyway, I will leave good feedack, even if the controllers no longer work in the next release. I can still save this version and use it if that happened. I tried Pac-man, Space Invaders, H.E.R.O., and a few others. When using the old cable in Pac-man, control was noticeably worse. Pac-man seems like a bad ROM to test with, because the pac seems to slip corners and not control all that good in the first place. I don't remember it being like that on the real thing, but in Stella the control does not seem as good whenever you try to turn a corner. Sometimes he slips in the wrong direction and travels pretty far fast.

 

In the other ROMS, the controls seemed normal. Except I noticed there is a difference between the two controllers, and so I am glad to have both. The old one is much more stiff and stable, and precise. I could play H.E.R.O. with it fine, but not with the new revision 2 which is way too loose and jittery for precise control. People that use the new revision 2 have said it feels much better too use, and feels less likely for the top to snap off. Maybe each controller is better suited to certain kinds of games, and it might be better to have both to choose from. Overall, I like the revision 1 better, at least the one I have. The look of them is great, and is great for retrogaming. Maybe a company could pick them up for mass production. I tried the revision one on Atari 800 MacX, and this time it worked! I tried H.E.R.O. again and it worked fine. This game seems slightly easier on the Atari 800 than on the 2600. I assume the Atari Astroblast on AA is harder than the Astrosmash on Intellivision, from trying Astrosmash a few times recently.

 

Anyway, I am glad to be able to use the Syzygy controllers and play some games with them.