Split-Screen games on the ATARI 2600 ?

[Octavio Pinho Bokel]

I am resurrecting a 20 years old Thread!

I think I created the first true multiplayer split screen game on the Atari 2600.

 

Hellway 2 Players Edition probably the is the first true multiplayer split screen game where players have a fully consistent view of the world and interact with each other. I have seen some examples of split screens, but no direct interaction among players.

 

If this is indeed true, I would like to proclaim being the first!

The game is in a releasable state.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

There is Ballblazer which never went beyond WIP. But I cannot think of any finished game.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Thomas Jentzsch

[Mr SQL]

Very cool Split Screen idea and implementation Octavio!

 

I created a Split Screen two player version of my BASIC 10 liner Contest release Tron Light Cycles One Player in 2017, a fast reflex trainer survival game.

 

You were unaware of my program so I think we share credit for parallel development which is great fun!  

 

Tron Light Cycles Two Players is here with a link to the One Player survival contest:

Split Screen Two Player Tron - Atari 2600 - AtariAge Forums

 

The versions should be played in order as the Two Player version is more challenging requiring faster reaction time. Both Players should Master the One Player Trainer Edition first, with the sufficient dexterity to survive for 30 seconds to compete without immediately crashing.  

 

The online links on the threads got lost behind the pictures:

One Player Tron Light Cycles Survival Javatari 

Two Player Tron Light Cycles Split Screen Javatari

 

[Octavio Pinho Bokel]

1 hour ago, Mr SQL said:

I created a Split Screen two player version of my BASIC 10 liner Contest release Tron Light Cycles One Player in 2017, a fast reflex trainer survival game.

I could not understand much of what is going on, do you have a video of the two players gameplay?

And yes, I was completely unaware of your game. I hope a third person does not pop up  

Regardless, Stella reports your cart as using:

12K:
 -FA: Used only by CBS.  Similar to F8, except you have three 4K banks 
  instead of two.  You select the desired bank via 1FF8, 1FF9, and 1FFA.
  These carts also have 256 bytes of RAM mapped in at 1000-11FF.  1000-10FF
  is the write port while 1100-11FF is the read port.

@Mr SQL I would like to claim my game to be the first to accomplish it with no extra hardware or bank switch if you agree. While you should have the title of being the true first.

 

Please let me know.
 

[Octavio Pinho Bokel]

3 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

There is Ballblazer which never went beyond WIP. But I cannot think of any finished game.

Impressive! Do you plan to finish it?

[Thomas Jentzsch]

12 minutes ago, Octavio Pinho Bokel said:

Impressive! Do you plan to finish it?

I have no plans. And even if, I would have to get in contact with @roland p first before using his code.

[+Gemintronic]

@Octavio Pinho Bokel

 

Pretty sure by law you are now obligated to make a 2600 Spy vs Spy game as your next project!

 

 

[Mr SQL]

19 hours ago, Octavio Pinho Bokel said:

I could not understand much of what is going on, do you have a video of the two players gameplay?

And yes, I was completely unaware of your game. I hope a third person does not pop up  

Regardless, Stella reports your cart as using:

12K:
 -FA: Used only by CBS.  Similar to F8, except you have three 4K banks 
  instead of two.  You select the desired bank via 1FF8, 1FF9, and 1FFA.
  These carts also have 256 bytes of RAM mapped in at 1000-11FF.  1000-10FF
  is the write port while 1100-11FF is the read port.

@Mr SQL I would like to claim my game to be the first to accomplish it with no extra hardware or bank switch if you agree. While you should have the title of being the true first.

 

Please let me know.
 

 

Yes I agree you are the first to implement this innovative idea on the 2600 with no extra hardware and bank switching!

Your program is the more retro implementation for using only classic 1970's Atari Technology. 

 

But I think we share the title of being the true first, because of the parallel research and development model.  

 

We had a similar idea for this innovation on difficult hardware and we implemented it in parallel without knowing about each others research, so the implementation dates do not matter. 

 

I have a video playing the one player version of Tron here but not the split screen two player, I will ask a friend with fast reflexes to make a video playing the game with me I get a chance.

 

If anyone else wishes to try the two player after training sufficiently with the one player version I would like to see the maximum survival time before both players crash. This game may be limited to top players with Ultra fast twitch reflexes.

 

[+wongojack]

On 4/23/2022 at 7:52 AM, Octavio Pinho Bokel said:

I am resurrecting a 20 years old Thread!

I think I created the first true multiplayer split screen game on the Atari 2600.

 

Hellway 2 Players Edition probably the is the first true multiplayer split screen game where players have a fully consistent view of the world and interact with each other. I have seen some examples of split screens, but no direct interaction among players.

 

If this is indeed true, I would like to proclaim being the first!

This seems like a pretty big caveat.  Street Racer, Dragster, Motorodeo and the Summer Games events mentioned are all split screen games where you race against the player to your left or right (above or below).  Adding the ability to crash into the other player is pretty neato, but I don't think that makes this a new genre or anything like that.  I don't mean to discourage you (because Hellway is awesome), but I guess I would just be careful if you are explaining this to anyone who isn't already familiar with 2600 software, they may not understand this nuance.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

It is only a nuance, but nevertheless it is still a first.

 

BTW: All my games were firsts too.  

[Octavio Pinho Bokel]

2 hours ago, wongojack said:

Adding the ability to crash into the other player is pretty neato, but I don't think that makes this a new genre or anything like that. 

This is not just about crashing. This other game makes no difference if you are taking turns and competing for high score, or playing at the same time. I don't think this is a nuance.

 

It is not about crashing, it is about having interaction, otherwise split screen is just a convenience.

[Octavio Pinho Bokel]

2 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

BTW: All my games were firsts too.  

I am going to check your games. Is not claiming to be the first on something the polite way to behave on this district community?

Edited April 26, 2022 by Octavio Pinho Bokel
Typing on phone text for mixed up

[Octavio Pinho Bokel]

3 hours ago, Mr SQL said:

But I think we share the title of being the true first, because of the parallel research and development model.  

I think you can have, it is 5 years difference. My work is not based on yours, but it does not change the fact you are the first, and should be proud about it.

 

I am going to clarify this soon on my game thread, and keep the title of first on vannila hardware.

 

Please accept the title with pride!

 

 I will be waiting your gameplay videos.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Octavio Pinho Bokel

[Thomas Jentzsch]

9 minutes ago, Octavio Pinho Bokel said:

I am going to check your games. Is not claiming to be the first on something the polite way to behave on this district community?

No, you are totally fine. I just meant to say that almost each game is a first somehow. 

[+Andrew Davie]

My early versions of Boulder Dash had vertical-split screen two player mode... April 2005.

 

 

 

Just to clarify this; we see left/right players have a view of the same part of the playing area. Although the left player is not displayed in the right side here, when the left player moves left (at 0:29), the diamond to the left disappears on both players' views, and the diamond and rock fall down on both players' views, simultaneously. In other words, the players affect each others' playing area (because it is of course the same playing are, but each player has an independent view onto it that is different).  There are several options for displaying each player in each view; 1) combine to a single view when the players are within "sight" of each other, or 2) Draw another sprite for each player (in the other view) when required.  But in any case, I reckon this demonstrates basic "interactivity" with two players operating in the same playing area, and affecting each others' environment.

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Andrew Davie

[Octavio Pinho Bokel]

On 4/28/2022 at 7:58 PM, Andrew Davie said:

My early versions of Boulder Dash had vertical-split screen two player mode... April 2005.

4KB, no extra ram?

[Mr SQL]

On 4/28/2022 at 1:58 PM, Andrew Davie said:

 

Just to clarify this; we see left/right players have a view of the same part of the playing area. Although the left player is not displayed in the right side here, when the left player moves left (at 0:29), the diamond to the left disappears on both players' views, and the diamond and rock fall down on both players' views, simultaneously. In other words, the players affect each others' playing area (because it is of course the same playing are, but each player has an independent view onto it that is different). 

Cool split screen two player implementation.

This is very close to full split screen, but I think both players need to be able to see one another in their view when the CAM overlaps.

 

[Living Room Arcade]

2 years later

 

I just saw this now.  

 

@Octavio Pinho Bokel, I think your game, Hellway 2 Player Version, just might be the first split screen game (2k/4k and up) for Atari 2600 with direct player interaction!  (direct = my car appears on your split screen and your car appears on mine.)  If so, congrats!  

Edited April 28 by Living Room Arcade

[Living Room Arcade]

I have compiled all of the suggestions, above, into lists.  

 

Spoiler

Split Screen – Simultaneous - No Player Interaction 
1. Decathlon 
2. Dragster
3. Marble Craze
4. Moto Rodeo
5. Street Racer
6. Track & Field

7. Z-Blocks

 

Criteria:

• Each player plays in their half of the split screen.
• Simultaneous gameplay.  
• What one player does cannot affect what the other player does.
• The example is Street Racer.  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Psuedo Split Screen (Separate Lanes) – Simultaneous - No Player Interaction

1. Double Dragon
2. Freeway
3. VROOM!
4. Steeplechase (Sears)

 

Criteria:

• The screen is not split, but each player plays in their own separate lane, effectively creating a psuedo-split screen.   
• Simultaneous gameplay.  
• What one player does cannot affect what the other player does.
• The example is Double Dragon.  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Split Screen – Alternating - No Player Interaction 
1. Xenophobe

 

Criteria:

• Each player plays in their half of the split screen.
• Alternating gameplay.    
• What one player does cannot affect what the other player does.
• The example is Xenophobe.  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Split Screen – Simultaneous - Indirect Player Interaction 
1. Andrew Davies' split screen version of Boom!  

 

Criteria:

• Each player plays in their half of the split screen.
• Simultaneous gameplay.  
• What one player does can affect what the other player does.
• However, one player's avatar does not appear in the other player's split screen view.  This allows only indirect interactions between the two players.  The two players cannot directly interact with each other (e.g. collide).  
• The example is Andrew Davies' split screen version of Boom!    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

True Split Screen – Simultaneous - Direct Interaction
1. Hellway: 2 Players Edition

 

Criteria: 

• Each player plays in their half of the split screen.
• Simultaneous gameplay.  
• What one player does can affect what the other player does.
• Moreover, one player's avatar can appear in the other player's split screen view.  This allows for direct interactions between the two players (e.g. collisions).  
• The example is Hellway: 2 Players Edition.  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not Sure

• Edtris - Is there a 2 Player version?  
• Epyx Winter Games - speed skating 
• Epyx Summer Games - hurdles, running and rowing 
• Party Mix
• Sneak 'n' Peak

Not Split Screen

• Entombed – Clearly, no.  The screen is not split.  There are not even lanes like in Double Dragon.  

Not Finished

• Ballblazer WIP – 

Too Small

• Tron Light Cycles Two Players – a 10 line BASIC competition entry

 

What do you guys think of these lists?  Anything you would add or remove?  Please post your comments, below.  

Edited April 29 by Living Room Arcade

[Octavio Pinho Bokel]

@Mr SQL and @Living Room Arcade

 

Quote

This is very close to full split screen, but I think both players need to be able to see one another in their view when the CAM overlaps.

 

Sorry for such delay to reply. Hellway 2PE is exacly that. You can see the other player car on your own screen. They even colide (one player can block another). There is also rubberbading that can be enabled and disabled (changes the invicibility time). In that sense is a full 2 players game. It can be also asymetrical, since each player can select a different car.

 

Original Post: 

 

 

Thanks for the recognition. I hope now I am the first, but regardless, it was a lot of fun to code it... At least I hope Hellway 2PE can be considered a hardware pusher.

 

[Living Room Arcade]

5 hours ago, Octavio Pinho Bokel said:

@Mr SQL and @Living Room Arcade

 

 

Sorry for such delay to reply. Hellway 2PE is exacly that. You can see the other player car on your own screen. They even colide (one player can block another). There is also rubberbading that can be enabled and disabled (changes the invicibility time). In that sense is a full 2 players game. It can be also asymetrical, since each player can select a different car.

 

Original Post: 

 

 

Thanks for the recognition. I hope now I am the first, but regardless, it was a lot of fun to code it... At least I hope Hellway 2PE can be considered a hardware pusher.

 

@Octavio Pinho Bokel I say let us give time for the members of the Atari community to respond to this thread.  Perhaps someone will think of another game that is 2k/4k or more and is a true split screen.  If no one can name another one, then, sir, I think your game, Hellway 2 Players Edition, is the first!  

[Mr SQL]

On 4/29/2024 at 10:16 AM, Living Room Arcade said:

@Octavio Pinho Bokel I say let us give time for the members of the Atari community to respond to this thread.  Perhaps someone will think of another game that is 2k/4k or more and is a true split screen.  If no one can name another one, then, sir, I think your game, Hellway 2 Players Edition, is the first!  

 

I think two player Tron is the first true split screen game.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "too small" as it uses 100% of the screen.

The game could certainly be considered "too fast" making it difficult for anyone without quick reflexes. 

 

It runs on the SuperCharger which allows 6K but still occupies less than 4K.

 

Two Player Tron could be made easier to play by slowing the game down. One Player Tron is more fun at that speed since it does not split the screen allowing more twice the reaction time:

 

 

[Living Room Arcade]

@Mr SQL  I want to treat you right.  Please check your PM's. 

Edited April 30 by Living Room Arcade

[Living Room Arcade]

UPDATED: Tron 2 Player Light Cycles is 12k and currently listed as 'Not Sure' pending learning more about it.  

 

Spoiler

Split Screen – Simultaneous - No Player Interaction 
1. Decathlon 
2. Dragster
3. Edtris
4. Marble Craze
5. Moto Rodeo
6. Street Racer
7. Track & Field 
 
Criteria:

• Each player plays in their half of the split screen.
• Simultaneous gameplay.  
• What one player does cannot affect what the other player does.
• The example is Street Racer.  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Psuedo Split Screen (Separate Lanes) – Simultaneous - No Player Interaction
1. Double Dragon
2. Freeway
3. VROOM!
4. Steeplechase (Sears)
 
Criteria:

• The screen is not split, but each player plays in their own separate lane, effectively creating a psuedo-split screen.   
• Simultaneous gameplay.  
• What one player does cannot affect what the other player does.
• The example is Double Dragon.  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Split Screen – Alternating - No Player Interaction 
1. Xenophobe
 
Criteria:

• Each player plays in their half of the split screen.
• Alternating gameplay.    
• What one player does cannot affect what the other player does.
• The example is Xenophobe.  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Split Screen – Simultaneous - Indirect Player Interaction 
1. Andrew Davies' split screen version of Boom!  
 
Criteria:

• Each player plays in their half of the split screen.
• Simultaneous gameplay.  
• What one player does can affect what the other player does.
• However, one player's avatar does not appear in the other player's split screen view.  This allows only indirect interactions between the two players.  The two players cannot directly interact with each other (e.g. collide).  
• The example is Andrew Davies' split screen version of Boom!    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
True Split Screen – Simultaneous - Direct Interaction
1. Hellway: 2 Players Edition
 
Criteria: 

• Each player plays in their half of the split screen.
• Simultaneous gameplay.  
• What one player does can affect what the other player does.
• Moreover, one player's avatar can appear in the other player's split screen view.  This allows for direct interactions between the two players (e.g. collisions).  
• The example is Hellway: 2 Players Edition.  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not Sure

1. Epyx Summer Games - hurdles, running and rowing 
2. Epyx Winter Games - speed skating 
3. Party Mix
4. Sneak 'n' Peak
5. Tron Light Cycles Two Players (12k)

Not Split Screen

1. Entombed – Clearly, no.  The screen is not split.  There are not even lanes like in Double Dragon.  

Not Finished

1. Ballblazer WIP

Edited April 30 by Living Room Arcade

[Octavio Pinho Bokel]

I think the 4KB is not the only statement. It has no addons at all. Hellway 2PE runs 2 fully consistent games at the same time, with the 128 bytes of ram provided by the hardware.

 

Running on a supercharger gives you 6KB of RAM (according to wikipedia at least). Making much more memory available for the game state.

 

I was away from the forum for a while and the last thing I want to do is ignite a discussion. But I think the question statement is simple.

 

Is Hellway 2PE the first full game to do true split screen on vanilla hardware (regular Atari 2600 and a single ROM chip without bank switching, extra RAM or CPU)?

 

The first Hellway had a physical release besides the digital one. The 2PE is free and open source, but has no physical media release (but was tested and works on real hardware). Maybe the lack of a physical release might disqualify it for this discussion. In my opinion a physical copy is irrelevant since the game is completed and most likely would be released on a cartridge as is.

 

If people agree it is the first considering the criteria presented, I am happy.

 

If you don't agree, I am happy as well, I did it for the journey, and had a lot of fun pushing Hellway to the limits and making a 2 player version.

 

I wish a nice day to you all!