+Allan Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I got this document from a bunch of stuff I got from eBay. I didn't know Atari had two versions of the Translator disk. Does anybody have an image of one or both of these? I always thought there was just one version. Allan Translator.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I got this document from a bunch of stuff I got from eBay. I didn't know Atari had two versions of the Translator disk. Does anybody have an image of one or both of these? I always thought there was just one version. Allan There are 'A' and 'B' versions, to load 800 OS A and 800 OS B. I think I have both. XLATOR-A.ATR XLATOR-B.ATR 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Thanks, Russg. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a8isa1 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 There are 'A' and 'B' versions, to load 800 OS A and 800 OS B. I think I have both. Are there any known programs that require OS A? I mean programs that not don't work with XL/XE OS but also don't work with OS B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Are there any known programs that require OS A? I mean programs that not don't work with XL/XE OS but also don't work with OS B. Yes, take a look here: http://a8.fandal.cz/search.php?search=OS-A&butt_details_x=x Afaik there are even some more programs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Are there any known programs that require OS A? I mean programs that not don't work with XL/XE OS but also don't work with OS B. I may be wrong about Translators A and B. Here's from the A8FAQ...... 'The Translator disk is a two-sided disk, providing two slightly different versions of the Translator. The Side A Translator provides a version of the 400/800 OS that is slightly modified to allow the [RESET] key to be pressed without reverting to the XL/XE OS on ROM. The Side B Translator provides an even higher degree of compatibility, including support for programs that boot the 850 interface, but the 400/800 OS in RAM would be disabled if the [RESET] key is pressed. Atari shipped two versions of the Translator disk: - Atari Translator DX5063 NTSC version: 400/800 OS Rev.B/NTSC - Atari Translator FK100807 PAL version: 400/800 OS Rev.A/PAL' I just tested XLATORA and XLATOR B in 800XL. Both return 0 in PEEK(58383), which means both are 800 OS B. I have a 800 OS A and it returns a 56 on PEEK(58383) in a real 800, like it should and has the 'A' after the 12499 chip. 800 OS 'A' is the older OS and has a few problems 'B' fixes. But the XLATOR disks, 'A' and 'B' are both 'B' OS ROM. The FAQ also lists programs that don't run on XL/XE and require the translator disk. There is no mention in the FAQ about A and B compatibility. The FAQ doesn't distinguish between A and B versions. I know there are A and B ROMs for the 800. It seems there may also be NTSC and PAL translators. I'm sure the XLATOR that I have are NTSC. Edited August 29, 2014 by russg 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a8isa1 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) I may be wrong about Translators A and B. Here's from the A8FAQ...... 'The Translator disk is a two-sided disk, providing two slightly different versions of the Translator. The Side A Translator provides a version of the 400/800 OS that is slightly modified to allow the [RESET] key to be pressed without reverting to the XL/XE OS on ROM. The Side B Translator provides an even higher degree of compatibility, including support for programs that boot the 850 interface, but the 400/800 OS in RAM would be disabled if the [RESET] key is pressed. Atari shipped two versions of the Translator disk: - Atari Translator DX5063 NTSC version: 400/800 OS Rev.B/NTSC - Atari Translator FK100807 PAL version: 400/800 OS Rev.A/PAL' I just tested XLATORA and XLATOR B in 800XL. Both return 0 in PEEK(58383), which means both are 800 OS B. I have a 800 OS A and it returns a 56 on PEEK(58383) in a real 800, like it should and has the 'A' after the 12499 chip. 800 OS 'A' is the older OS and has a few problems 'B' fixes. But the XLATOR disks, 'A' and 'B' are both 'B' OS ROM. The FAQ also lists programs that don't run on XL/XE and require the translator disk. There is no mention in the FAQ about A and B compatibility. The FAQ doesn't distinguish between A and B versions. I know there are A and B ROMs for the 800. It seems there may also be NTSC and PAL translators. I'm sure the XLATOR that I have are NTSC. Thanks Russg. I'm sure the OS A translator will show up again. In the meantime I know the OS A ROM image is available and I seem to recall a utility to make your own translator. It was called "Homemade Translator" or "Homebrew Translator" or something similar. Edited August 29, 2014 by a8isa1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Thanks Russg. I'm sure the OS A translator will show up again. In the meantime I know the OS A ROM image is available and I seem to recall a utility to make your own translator. It was called "Homemade Translator" or "Homebrew Translator" or something similar. Homemade translator available at: http://www.atarimax.com/flashcart/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1212 The poster mentions using it in the Atari++ emulator, so it should be easy to easy to use a version A ROM file to create a version A Translator disc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Thanks Russg. I'm sure the OS A translator will show up again. In the meantime I know the OS A ROM image is available and I seem to recall a utility to make your own translator. It was called "Homemade Translator" or "Homebrew Translator" or something similar. That 'Homemade Translator' is from ANALOG 32 I think. Angelo Giambra. It is apparently for OS B only, that's what the article says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) On a related note, I know one program which will only run with BASIC Rev. A. ESI Instedit (and probably the APX version too) boots up and looks like everything is fine under Revs B and C, until you start to edit a character. Then, as you click to change pixels, it starts to mangle your character. I don't think the OS version matters though. Edited August 30, 2014 by MrFish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) That 'Homemade Translator' is from ANALOG 32 I think. Angelo Giambra. It is apparently for OS B only, that's what the article says. It is tough to tell if the translators I've been working with are correct. I only know OS B is supposed to give a 0 at 58383 and OS A a 56. I'm assuming the XLATOR-A and XLATOR-B I posted here of OS B translators are correct, just slight difference in code to protect erasure from a RESET. However Translator OS-A returns a 249 at 58383, both in emulator and on a real 800XL. Atari800winplus, selecting OS A machine type gives a 56, as does a real 800 with OS A 10K card. I can't find a 800 OS A translator that is correct using a real or emulated 800XL. That Translator OS-A .ATR has DOS.SYS, DUP.SYS, ANDRU.BAS, BACKUP.OBJ and QB.OBJ files. I dumped the OS A from my 800 to a file and CRC32 agrees with the ATARIOSA ROM that comes with A800WP and is used in Altirra, so I'm sure the OSA ROM I have is correct. I can't find a program to make a Translator disk from a real 800, the HOME program in issue 32 ANALOG is only for OS B. No big problem, I just wanted to complete the translators with a good OS A one. If I can find where the ROM is in Translator OS-A.ATR, I could substitute a correct one. Edited August 30, 2014 by russg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a8isa1 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 It is tough to tell if the translators I've been working with are correct. I only know OS B is supposed to give a 0 at 58383 and OS A a 56. I'm assuming the XLATOR-A and XLATOR-B I posted here of OS B translators are correct, just slight difference in code to protect erasure from a RESET. However Translator OS-A returns a 249 at 58383, both in emulator and on a real 800XL. Atari800winplus, selecting OS A machine type gives a 56, as does a real 800 with OS A 10K card. I can't find a 800 OS A translator that is correct using a real or emulated 800XL. That Translator OS-A .ATR has DOS.SYS, DUP.SYS, ANDRU.BAS, BACKUP.OBJ and QB.OBJ files. I dumped the OS A from my 800 to a file and CRC32 agrees with the ATARIOSA ROM that comes with A800WP and is used in Altirra, so I'm sure the OSA ROM I have is correct. I can't find a program to make a Translator disk from a real 800, the HOME program in issue 32 ANALOG is only for OS B. No big problem, I just wanted to complete the translators with a good OS A one. If I can find where the ROM is in Translator OS-A.ATR, I could substitute a correct one. I found an OS A translator. It's titled, "Atari OS-A Disk & Cassette Translator", and it was created by Witold Trenkler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I found an OS A translator. It's titled, "Atari OS-A Disk & Cassette Translator", and it was created by Witold Trenkler. That's great! Thanks. It gives a 249 at PEEK 58383 like the Translator OS=A I have, I guess that's the way it is supposed to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kr0tki Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) Some clarification: PEEK(58383) returns 0 on an NTSC rev. B, 56 on an NTSC rev. A, and 249 on PAL rev. A. Therefore, This Witold Trenkler's translator contains a modified PAL OS-A ROM. (Nb. checking 58383 is a bad way to determine OS revision, as all XL OS-es also have 0 there; the correct way is to check values at $FCD8, $FFF8, $FFF9 as described in the Atari OS Manual - XL Addendum p. 28.) I doubt that Atari manufactured an rev. A Translator for NTSC systems. The OS-B was available in the US fairly early, so the chances of commercial software requiring rev. A OS are practically none in that region. On the other hand, OS-A was everything we got in Europe, as there was no PAL rev. B released. So there's a higher chance that European software would work on OS-A only. Note that all software that requires OS-A from the link provided by CharlieChaplin, originates from the UK or Germany. The PAL version of Atari Translator (only side A) is downloadable here - choose "Translator.xfd". It contains a PAL rev. A OS. Edited September 2, 2014 by Kr0tki 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Here is B & C's auction for an original translator disk and as you can see it's got both versions on the disk. Anybody have this actually disk? I want to put a copy on Atarimania but I want to make sure sure it's an original copy and not something that has been modified. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Atari-Translator-Disk-A-B-800XL-130XE-65XE-XEGM-810-1050-Atari-NEW-/141374485030?pt=US_Other_Video_Game_Accessories&hash=item20ea937226 russg, did your copy come from an original disk or something that you had on your computer from one of the large collections out on the Net? Allan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandit Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) This is the disk Atari mailed me way back, I have a couple of them . two sides. Picture of disk TRANSAB.ZIP Edited September 2, 2014 by bandit 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Thanks, Bandit. Can you get a more strait on picture of the disk or better yet a scan of it so I can put a picture of it on Atarimania.com? Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) Here is B & C's auction for an original translator disk and as you can see it's got both versions on the disk. Anybody have this actually disk? I want to put a copy on Atarimania but I want to make sure sure it's an original copy and not something that has been modified. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Atari-Translator-Disk-A-B-800XL-130XE-65XE-XEGM-810-1050-Atari-NEW-/141374485030?pt=US_Other_Video_Game_Accessories&hash=item20ea937226 russg, did your copy come from an original disk or something that you had on your computer from one of the large collections out on the Net? Allan The original .ATRs I posted (XLATOR-A.ATR and XLATOR-B.ATR) give the same loading 'TRANSLATOR' and Fuji on a gold screen that my floppy copies gave. I don't think I actually dumped my floppy, side A and B, so it did probably come from Holmes, CTH or other source. Back when the translator originally came out, I got a copy from a lady in the Atari user group, so my original floppy isn't an original direct from Atari, but I don't believe it has been modified..... ..... I found my original floppy with translator on it. I was like you, Allan, I didn't know there were A and B versions. I only had one translator disk. So, definitely, the translator A and B I posted are from someone's collection (CTH, Holmes most likely). I learned about the A and B versions by reading the A8 FAQ about them just recently. Edited September 2, 2014 by russg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Here's a new entry on Atarimania.com http://www.atarimania.com/utility-atari-400-800-xl-xe-translator-_29943.html There was one up for the PAL version but not even an entry for the NTSC version (until now.) I need to get the year though. I think I see a copyright year on Bandits pic but it is to blurry to see which one. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kr0tki Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Here is B & C's auction for an original translator disk and as you can see it's got both versions on the disk. Anybody have this actually disk? I want to put a copy on Atarimania but I want to make sure sure it's an original copy and not something that has been modified. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Atari-Translator-Disk-A-B-800XL-130XE-65XE-XEGM-810-1050-Atari-NEW-/141374485030?pt=US_Other_Video_Game_Accessories&hash=item20ea937226 Fascinating, so there actually exists a Translator with NTSC OS-A! Summing things up, there seem to be three different releases of the Atari Translator: #1. The one with NTSC rev. A and NTSC rev. B on different sides of the disk (as seen on eBay, not yet dumped); #2. The one with both sides being NTSC rev. B, but differing in Side A being reset-proof (as posted by russg and bandit; the disk images posted by both of them are virtually identical, apart from the empty sectors, which are filled with $1a bytes in bandit's dump and $00 in russg's dump); #3. The PAL equivalent of #2, with PAL rev. A on both sides instead (only Side A dumped). Out of curiosity, bandit, what utility have you used to dump the disk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 The original .ATRs I posted (XLATOR-A.ATR and XLATOR-B.ATR) give the same loading 'TRANSLATOR' and Fuji on a gold screen that my floppy copies gave. I don't think I actually dumped my floppy, side A and B, so it did probably come from Holmes, CTH or other source. Back when the translator originally came out, I got a copy from a lady in the Atari user group, so my original floppy isn't an original direct from Atari, but I don't believe it has been modified..... ..... I found my original floppy with translator on it. I was like you, Allan, I didn't know there were A and B versions. I only had one translator disk. So, definitely, the translator A and B I posted are from someone's collection (CTH, Holmes most likely). I learned about the A and B versions by reading the A8 FAQ about them just recently. I tested XLATOR-A.ATR and XLATOR-B.ATR that I first posted. The main difference I see is that A stays the same after RESET and B re-boots. Both A and B are the OS B of the 800. I didn't read the OS manual, but I did read $FCD8, $FFF8 and $FFF9. The results were: Stock 800XL no translator first, second, third locations 76,140,108. with XLATOR-A, it reads 162,243,230 and stays the same after reset with XLATOR-B the same as A, but re-boots with RESET. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandit Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Thanks, Bandit. Can you get a more strait on picture of the disk or better yet a scan of it so I can put a picture of it on Atarimania.com? Allan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kr0tki Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I didn't read the OS manual, but I did read $FCD8, $FFF8 and $FFF9.The XL Addendum I mentioned is downloadable, if you're interested. I didn't mean to suggest that you made any mistake. Your results definitely prove that both your images are NTSC rev. B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kr0tki Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) #1. The one with NTSC rev. A and NTSC rev. B on different sides of the disk (as seen on eBay, not yet dumped);Come to think of it, it's possible that the label on that eBay disk is a replacement made by B&C, which is simply erroneous, and the disk might be in fact identical to the other ones, ie. no NTSC rev. A. It surely doesn't look like a typical Atari label. Edited September 2, 2014 by Kr0tki 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 The XL Addendum I mentioned is downloadable, if you're interested. I didn't mean to suggest that you made any mistake. Your results definitely prove that both your images are NTSC rev. B. I may download it. But to make Allan unhappy, here's the CRC32 of all the Translators I have collected over the past few days. I think part of it may not be that they are different when loaded, but maybe have slightly different .ATR headers. (Make Allan unhappy because there are almost no agreement of CRC32) TRAN_A.ATR ------------- 003CB47C TRAN_B.ATR ------------- 61AC5D7 Translator OS-A.atr ---- 39DC1BB2 Translator OS-B.atr ---- 54F2F5FC Translator Pal OSA.atr - 26292C79 Translator PAL.atr ----- E493F8FE Translators.atr -------- E137BE88 XLATOR-A.ATR ----------- 542A902E XLATOR-B.ATR ----------- 7786CF11 XLATORA.ATR ------------ 542A902E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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