+Stephen Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I may download it. But to make Allan unhappy, here's the CRC32 of all the Translators I have collected over the past few days. I think part of it may not be that they are different when loaded, but maybe have slightly different .ATR headers. (Make Allan unhappy because there are almost no agreement of CRC32) TRAN_A.ATR ------------- 003CB47C TRAN_B.ATR ------------- 61AC5D7 Translator OS-A.atr ---- 39DC1BB2 Translator OS-B.atr ---- 54F2F5FC Translator Pal OSA.atr - 26292C79 Translator PAL.atr ----- E493F8FE Translators.atr -------- E137BE88 XLATOR-A.ATR ----------- 542A902E XLATOR-B.ATR ----------- 7786CF11 XLATORA.ATR ------------ 542A902E What did you use to generate the CRC32s? I have a double sided translator disk (non-original copy I've had since 1988). I do not know where it came from. I can post it, but I don't want to post duplicates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Come to think of it, it's possible that the label on that eBay disk is a replacement made by B&C, which is simply erroneous, and the disk might be in fact identical to the other ones, ie. no NTSC rev. A. It surely doesn't look like a typical Atari label. That's what I was thinking. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kr0tki Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 TRAN_A.ATR ------------- 003CB47C TRAN_B.ATR ------------- 61AC5D7 Translator OS-A.atr ---- 39DC1BB2 Translator OS-B.atr ---- 54F2F5FC Translator Pal OSA.atr - 26292C79 Translator PAL.atr ----- E493F8FE Translators.atr -------- E137BE88 XLATOR-A.ATR ----------- 542A902E XLATOR-B.ATR ----------- 7786CF11 XLATORA.ATR ------------ 542A902E You got them from Holmes, ain't you? :-) Out of this list, only TRAN_A.ATR, TRAN_B.ATR, Translator PAL.atr, XLATOR-A.ATR, XLATOR-B.ATR are Atari's Translators; the others are by other authors. Of these five, "Translator PAL.atr" has broken graphics, so it's definitely a bad version. The other four I've already compared earlier. What did you use to generate the CRC32s?If you're on Windows, I'd recommend HashCheck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 What did you use to generate the CRC32s? I have a double sided translator disk (non-original copy I've had since 1988). I do not know where it came from. I can post it, but I don't want to post duplicates. Mine is a simple crc32.exe for PC. It is command line only, you can't click on the desktop. Go to cmd and type crc32.exe filespec. (filespec like all the ones that start with crc would be crc32 crc*.*) I have one for the A8, called CRC32N2.COM. It is much slower than PC but it gives same result. crc32PCcmd.zip CRC32N2A8.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 You got them from Holmes, ain't you? :-) Out of this list, only TRAN_A.ATR, TRAN_B.ATR, Translator PAL.atr, XLATOR-A.ATR, XLATOR-B.ATR are Atari's Translators; the others are by other authors. Of these five, "Translator PAL.atr" has broken graphics, so it's definitely a bad version. The other four I've already compared earlier. If you're on Windows, I'd recommend HashCheck. Yes, probably from Holmes. I also check my CTH archive, I think both CTH and Holmes had the same ones. Or probably went to FTPpigwa.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandit Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Out of curiosity, bandit, what utility have you used to dump the disk? The old sector copy on floppy to Ape . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 TRAN_A.ATR ------------- 003CB47C TRAN_B.ATR ------------- 61AC5D7 Translator OS-A.atr ---- 39DC1BB2 Translator OS-B.atr ---- 54F2F5FC Translator Pal OSA.atr - 26292C79 Translator PAL.atr ----- E493F8FE Translators.atr -------- E137BE88 XLATOR-A.ATR ----------- 542A902E XLATOR-B.ATR ----------- 7786CF11 XLATORA.ATR ------------ 542A902E OK - my two versions have different CRCs. They are both boot disks, and cannot be read via DOS. Translator A: 125A - Translator A.atr - CRC32: 3CBAB810 $FCD8 = $A2 (162) $FFF8 = $F3 (243) $FFF9 = $F4 (230) Pressing reset gave the following values (XL/XE OS Rev C via my 32-in-1 with BASIC REV. C enabled) $FCD8 = $4C ( 76) $FFF8 = $75 (117) $FFF9 = $70 (112) Translator B: 125B - Translator B.atr - CRC32: 1F16E72F $FCD8 = $6E (110) $FFF8 = $F3 (243) $FFF9 = $F4 (230) Pressing reset caused a cold boot Also, these disks will both randomly choose between two different "images" when loading. They load in GTIA mode, but have standard text at the bottom, and indicate if a cart is present or not. Hope they are of use to someone. Translators.zip 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Hi together! O. K. let's make a knockout: 1st: CRC CRC32.atr from Abbuc software... 2nd: if I type in "Translator" for searching in my archive, I get the following: 3rd: If there is anyone out there in the galaxy, who has the Star Trek universal translator: please post it here. I prefer the Atari version of course. CU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 Bandit's version came from an official Atari un-notched disk so I think it's safe to assume it has not been altered. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 I scan and posted the four page manual that came with the translator below. http://www.atarimania.com/utility-atari-400-800-xl-xe-translator-_29943.html Allan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) Here is B & C's auction for an original translator disk and as you can see it's got both versions on the disk. Anybody have this actually disk? I want to put a copy on Atarimania but I want to make sure sure it's an original copy and not something that has been modified. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Atari-Translator-Disk-A-B-800XL-130XE-65XE-XEGM-810-1050-Atari-NEW-/141374485030?pt=US_Other_Video_Game_Accessories&hash=item20ea937226 russg, did your copy come from an original disk or something that you had on your computer from one of the large collections out on the Net? Allan OMG 15 dollars a disk? I have a Manilla envelope full of these! Edited October 16, 2014 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 Here is B & C's auction for an original translator disk and as you can see it's got both versions on the disk. Anybody have this actually disk? I want to put a copy on Atarimania but I want to make sure sure it's an original copy and not something that has been modified. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Atari-Translator-Disk-A-B-800XL-130XE-65XE-XEGM-810-1050-Atari-NEW-/141374485030?pt=US_Other_Video_Game_Accessories&hash=item20ea937226 russg, did your copy come from an original disk or something that you had on your computer from one of the large collections out on the Net? Allan OMG 15 dollars a disk? I have a Manilla envelope full of these! Not sure were you're from but if you're from Europe do you have the PAL version? I'm looking for a copy for Atarimania.com that comes directly from an official Atari disk since so many copies of the Translator have been altered. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Can I VAPI it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Sure: Atari PAL Translator Diskette Rev. 0-Side A, Serial #4, 1984 Atari.atr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Sure: Atari PAL Translator Diskette Rev. 0-Side A, Serial #4, 1984 Atari.atr PAL Translator Diskette Rev. 0-Side A, Serial #4, 1984 Atari.jpg Is there a side B? Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 Thanks, Luckybuck. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Anytime Allan! That is a great idea! As far as I know, there is no Translator-Disk of OS B PAL. But! As of 2014, we do have, thanks to our brightest guys, an OS B PAL ROM: atari_os_b_pal.rom So calling all people out there in the galaxy, is someone out there, who can create a "Side B" with the rom included and the atr-image above? That would close the Translator chapter with an Atari AMEN... The force is with Atari... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I have side A and B not sure if they are PAL though the entire pile has marker where it should say what is what. First disk is supposed to handle 95% of software Second disk is Suppose to handle the rest for whatever reason. All disks rev 0 all disks serial #4 all disks have an instruction sheet with descriptions on what you should see and how to use the disks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1050 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 luckybuck, here it is. Atari PAL Translator Diskette Rev. 0-Side B, Serial #4, 1984 Atari.zip But I don't think it's made right at least not with the current state of the art. Isn't the idea of side B to be the RESET proof version of the same OS as on side A? This is different OS altogether on the same disk so not the same thing at all. While I was at it also had the opportunity to make a rom file of pal A, so I did and included it in the zip as well. Test them both to be sure, but it was just copy and paste with hex editor, prompts should be identical with the ATR you posted since other than the rom swap code, I did nothing else with it but make a new file from the selected code segment in the ATR you posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Hi 1050! Thank you very much! Sure, it should be RESET proof. But as far as I remember from the 80s, that is just one "Poke" command... Have seen your rom file. Thanks again! Can you make a digital comparison with the original OS A PAL ROM: atariosa.rom ? That would be incredible! :-))) Have great weekend. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1050 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Comparing files C:\!LEE\ATARI\ATARI_AGE\WORK\atariosa.rom and C:\!LEE\ATARI\ATARI_AGE\WORK\ATARI_OS_A_PAL.ROM00000EDF: 8D EA00000EE0: 03 EA00000EE1: D3 EA00000EE7: 8D EA00000EE8: 01 EA00000EE9: D3 EA00001A8D: 9D EA00001A8E: 00 EA00001A8F: D3 EA Is there a prize? Looks like your last file posted has some stuff dealing with Port B and it was NOPed out in the ATR you posted. Don't know why though. EA is 6502 code for do nothing, so it's just a space filler. The other code (atariosa.rom on the left side) however is programming Port B for some nebulous reason, most likely for four joystick inputs. More than glad to help with your most noble project. OK, I got it now, they killed 4 joysticks in the XL/XE since we need Port B for OS and other controls on that platform, so what is really needed here is to put these NOPs into the B version I just made - here that is. Part Deux.zip Same name unzipped so just overwrite the first attempt as bad code should be dealt with. And my attempt at making a rom file was only useful in putting these NOP bytes into the ATR so it should be tossed too, you a clever guy. Wasn't so easy this time, three groups of three NOPs, with two groups in identical spots but the last group was shifted some due to code differences so it's a best guess, but still pretty sure it's right for an XL to run this now. Both segments were doing the same thing before and after these last three NOP bytes, they were just in different spots by only a handful of bytes. Now it should fly right Orville said Wilbur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Well done 1050! You are from France? Indeed, the atariosa.rom file is from my Atari 800 from the 80s. The Translator Disk I have bought from Bradley, so it's an original one. In those days, as far as I remember, Atari used the Translator Disk for the XLs or XEs. You are right, they only had two joystick ports. So M.U.L.E. was something difficult to play with 4... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1050 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 No, not from France, just a smart alecky MURICAN with a grin as I type this. Used to be a TV show spoofing itself that said that after a pregnant pause for full effect, making fun of themselves and Hot Shots! Part Deux at the same time and I think they were trying to make fun of apocalypse now redux, guess it just got stuck in my brain. So just for information's sake here is a compare of atr files. Comparing files C:\!LEE\ATARI\ATARI_AGE\WORK\bad_first_try.atr and C:\!LEE\ATARI\ATARI_AGE\WORK\ATARI PAL TRANSLATOR DISKETTE REV. 0-SIDE B, SERIAL #4, 1984 ATARI.ATR000048EF: 8D EA000048F0: 03 EA000048F1: D3 EA000048F7: 8D EA000048F8: 01 EA000048F9: D3 EA00005493: 9D EA00005494: 00 EA00005495: D3 EA One odd thing I noticed was that the powerup vector at FFFC on your a rom points to the coldstart vector E477 directly. I've never seen that done before, it's usually some Fxxx address, and then these two roms seem to be different from what anybody else has. Haven't dug too far into that issue, but I'm happy as is. After a bit of thought, I wasn't all that happy with comparing atr check sums so I started ripping rom code out of them for a real check of what's what. XLATOR-A.rom crc32 070C7CB9 Russg atr crc32 542A902EXLATOR-B.rom crc32 070C7CB9 Russg atr crc32 7786CF11 !TRAN_A.rom crc32 070C7CB9 TransAB.zip atr crc32 003CB47C !!TRAN_B.rom crc32 070C7CB9 TransAB.zip atr crc32 861AC5D7 !!!(-)(Side A).rom crc32 070C7CB9 Atarionline.pl atr crc32 8DB59B42(-)(Side B).rom crc32 070C7CB9 Atarionline.pl atr crc32 7786CF11 !Translator_Side_A_OS_B.rom crc32 070C7CB9 Atarimania (USA) atr crc32 003CB47C !!Translator_Side_B_OS_A.rom crc32 070C7CB9 Atarimania (USA) atr crc32 861AC5D7 !!!125A - Translator A.rom crc32 070C7CB9 Translators.zip atr crc32 3CBAB810125B - Translator B.rom crc32 070C7CB9 Translators.zip atr crc32 1F16E72FConclusion - NTSC B rom ^^^^^^^^ all of the abovethey all have the three EA groups shutting off joysticks 3 and 4 for inputs and leave portb for control of XL/XE hardwareSide A, Serial #4, 1984 Atari.rom crc32 04183900 luckybuck atr crc32 A754904F !!!!(GB)(PAL).rom crc32 04183900 Atarionline.pl atr crc32 A754904F !!!!Atari_PAL_Translator_Diskette.rom crc32 04183900 Atarimania (UK) atr crc32 A754904F !!!!atariosa.rom crc32 72B3FED4 luckybuck but sub three groups of three EA and we have crc32 04183900 for a win(GB)(PAL)[a].rom crc32 04183900 Atarionline.pl xfd made into atr crc32 4C1BF434Conclusion - PAL A rom as advertised ^^^^^all these have E477 vector at FFFC address, so unusual for me to see that thereatari_os_b_pal.rom crc32 0C913DFC luckybuck custom made atr crc32 D5EB9732Atari OS-A Disk & Cassette Translator.rom crc32 EF6D7C36 Witold Trenkler.xex 60+ differences from A PAL.rom with 9 EAs included in that count but NONE of these concern Port B, how can this possibly work on an XL/XE - conclusion ????E477 vector at FFFC so did compare to pal a romATARIOSB.ROM crc32 3E28A1FE NOT from Atari800Win site, but a google search instead - among a bunch of OS files 36 differences between B PAL.rom with 2 out of 3 Port B triple EA substitutes included actually has b PAL vector at FFFC same as luckybuck's b PAL romSTILL missing NTSC A rom? Doesn't seem to be among these anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 That is an outstanding WOW! Please give me some time to go through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Hi 1050! There are those who deserve the title: Atari man of the decade. 2 of them have created the OS B PAL ROM, not me, please see below: atariosa_NTSC.rom atariosa_PAL.rom atariosb_NTSC.rom atariosb_PAL_JAC!.rom atariosb_PAL_Kr0tki.rom oldrunner.rom Further, in my opinion work of 2014(!): http://www.wudsn.com/productions/atari800/atariromchecker/help/AtariROMChecker.html Further, post #19 from here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/217772-atari-400800-os-b-pal-the-real-mccoy/ Hope, this will help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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