Homebrews No Longer Obtainable?

[+Random Terrain]

Now that I'm back working on batari Basic programs again, just you wait. I'm going to make something great. Just you watch. Oh look, a butterfly. See you in another 5 years.

[Mr SQL]

 

I intended to remove the game after Jay's most recent blowup where he publicly (and rudely) attacked me (again), but I was out of town at the time. This thread reminded me that i had forgotten to do so upon my return.

 

As to why I added the game to the store, it is fairly unique amongst 2600 homebrews (and 2600 games in general). I know Jay put a lot of time into it, and that does show in many aspects of the game. And partly I wanted to encourage him to continue to develop his skills as a homebrew developer. I do agree it's difficult to learn the controls, and that can be off-putting. I don't think it deserves as much negative attention as it receives, putting aside for now the abrasiveness of the author. But it hasn't been well-received, and that is another good reason to ultimately pull it from the store.

 

..Al

 

Al I find this hard to believe because the programmer has always been polite and open minded; did you or someone else come at him with the 3rd grade insults first?

 

In the 80's fans would come up to us at expo's and line up for our autograph and everyone was always happy and smiling

 

Some of today's best programmers today have the worst behavior because they get really jealous - I work in parallel projects somtimes against a team of PhD's (none that have Andrew's background) and finish in a fraction of the time and they feel embarassed, come up with "idiot savant" (not a 3rd grade insult) and other personal insults; I see that in microcosm here when some of the best Assembly programmers got angry I created a BASIC that could scroll more smoothly than their Assembly games, angrier still when I added display lists like the 800 to support the video modes they were (not politely) demanding.

 

Feedback from gamers is consistently positive and I get it from all over the world just like bitd. The polarized reviews like the competitive programmer review of STARBLITZ compared to the German review above (google translate) illustrates that some of the programmers who follow me around posting ignore pictures (harassing not ignoring) while I'm having technical conversations are just jealous - silly because programming is individual, and I only choose to get inspired and keep learning when I see something cool. Close your mind, miss the fun.

 

I think folks should be friendly to programmers (and to everyone) like in the 80's:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJCZbXqbkBc

[StanJr]

As far as I am aware he just got very defensive any time anyone didn't gush over the game during development and the longer it went on the more and more the walls went up and he would only listen to positive feedback and would argue with anything that wasn't praise. It was very off-putting.

 

Then, apparently, he went completely off rails a couple of weeks ago, but I missed that.

 

 

RT, will your new batariBasic game feature lots of flashing? Because I like flashing. Lots of it.

[+KaeruYojimbo]

Jay (Papa) is certainly very enthusiastic and can be very pleasant, but he has a very high opinion of himself and a very low threshold for criticism, which is not a good combination. I missed the blowup here, but I suspect that there were no third grade insults, merely someone expressing the opinion that his games aren't as amazing as he thinks they are.

 

I did see the exchange that got him removed from the 2600 homebrew facebook group (which may have been removed, as I can't find it now). It started with someone asking the group who used batari basic. Jay posted a very long reply mostly dedicated to how awesome (in his opinion) Titan Axe is. Someone else responded that they didn't care for the game, which caused Jay to begin insulting and threatening people.

 

If you're going to share your creations with the public, you have to be open to the possibility that not everyone is going to love them.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Jay (Papa) is certainly very enthusiastic and can be very pleasant, but he has a very high opinion of himself and a very low threshold for criticism, which is not a good combination.

Everybody who puts a lot of effort into his work, hopes for positive feedback. And negative feedback may hurt. Sometimes a lot! But that's no problem, that's normal human behavior.

 

The problem starts when you ignore the feedback you don't like or twist it to your satisfaction. It gets worse when you get personal, when you insinuate base motives or outright insult the people who actually try to help you. The former will always result into less feedback and worse results, the latter will also isolate you.

 

Usually people learn those lessons when they grow up, eventually they start using all kind of feedback to improve. Those who haven't will never develop to their full capabilities. Then sometimes a lot of talent gets lost and to see it happen is always very sad.

[Mr SQL]

Jay (Papa) is certainly very enthusiastic and can be very pleasant, but he has a very high opinion of himself and a very low threshold for criticism, which is not a good combination. I missed the blowup here, but I suspect that there were no third grade insults, merely someone expressing the opinion that his games aren't as amazing as he thinks they are.

 

I did see the exchange that got him removed from the 2600 homebrew facebook group (which may have been removed, as I can't find it now). It started with someone asking the group who used batari basic. Jay posted a very long reply mostly dedicated to how awesome (in his opinion) Titan Axe is. Someone else responded that they didn't care for the game, which caused Jay to begin insulting and threatening people.

 

If you're going to share your creations with the public, you have to be open to the possibility that not everyone is going to love them.

 

That's just it - I read the Titan Axe thread and didn't see anything like that either. I don't use Facebook, don't care for it and suggest anyone using it take a Facebook vacation; the whole concept of a Facebook "poke" isn't like coding in BASIC, it's like it sounds - poking someone to get a response; not exactly high level interaction. The twit site with it's tiny quips is even worse in that regard. I prefer sites like AtariAge forums that are more reminiscent of the BBS message boards bitd.

 

If there was a blow-up there it could be more related to the Facebook phenomena than real communication...

[+Random Terrain]

RT, will your new batariBasic game feature lots of flashing? Because I like flashing. Lots of it.

Feature flashing? Are you crazy? It will be nothing but flashing. The foreground, the background, the score, every sprite and every missile will constantly flash. You won't be able to tell one thing from the other and you won't know if you're winning or losing. It will be the greatest game ever! Jeff Minter's pants will explode!

[Thomas Jentzsch]

My next title: "Flashed!"

[+Random Terrain]

If there was a blow-up there it could be more related to the Facebook phenomena than real communication...

 

Just don't mention on ... goto around him.

[+Cafeman]

The blowup as it's being called was one of his blog entries. It was creepy and venomous and he attacked Albert in particular iirc. That entry got deleted and then he really seemed agitated, posting it again with threats and liberal use of F bombs. I'd never read any of his posts like that before. Concerning Titan Axe, it looks good in still pics but I haven't been following its development. Now I really want to try it out!

[Mr SQL]

 

Just don't mention on ... goto around him.

 

OK I read that thread and it was pretty interesting RT, you all had good points and interesting things to say and it was a good programmer discussion. Here's my feedback:

 

Papa didn't like that you told him he needed to "graduate"; I think he did not realize you did not mean that in a bad way or understand that you personally have to work harder than anyone else because of your disability or it wouldn't have bothered him - folks looking at your games like ChipOff (which is awesome and on my Harmony and AFP too since you provided a compatible version! ) just think you're a genius and have no idea (no kidding) unless they read all of your site and not just the bb coding reference.

 

The idea of maximizing the worst case cycle count is right on but sometimes the other solution can be better for that with short circuits thrown in because it starts out with such an edge; can short circuits drop the worst case cycle count below the always the same on goto structure? Something to think about, all the ideas are interesting.

 

The blowup as it's being called was one of his blog entries. It was creepy and venomous and he attacked Albert in particular iirc. That entry got deleted and then he really seemed agitated, posting it again with threats and liberal use of F bombs. I'd never read any of his posts like that before. Concerning Titan Axe, it looks good in still pics but I haven't been following its development. Now I really want to try it out!

 

Deleted blog entries... programmers getting upset... I can't see this ending well:

[CPUWIZ]

 

Al I find this hard to believe because the programmer has always been polite and open minded; did you or someone else come at him with the 3rd grade insults first?

 

WTF are you talking about? Are you accusing Al of throwing 3rd grade insults around? You must be out of your mind, the dude lost his marbles and what he wrote sounded dangerous. You continue to make a lot of friends.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Research helps, Google cache still has it.

 

It reads like he needs help.

[Keatah]

Ohh my!

[Keatah]

Feature flashing? Are you crazy? It will be nothing but flashing. The foreground, the background, the score, every sprite and every missile will constantly flash. You won't be able to tell one thing from the other and you won't know if you're winning or losing. It will be the greatest game ever! Jeff Minter's pants will explode!

 

Feature Request:

Can you make the overscan and blanking areas flash too?

[Mr SQL]

 

WTF are you talking about? Are you accusing Al of throwing 3rd grade insults around? You must be out of your mind, the dude lost his marbles and what he wrote sounded dangerous. You continue to make a lot of friends.

CPUWIZ,

I hope you heal and get healthy again; have only good wishes for you.

 

fwiw I think a lot of folk take themselves too seriously. I have read the posted links and gave my feedback on the material that was presented, why not share your perspective on that too instead of being facetious? The programming discussion was pretty interesting.

 

And now papa is dangerous? c'mon, I suspect you're exaggerating and I haven't seen any indication of that.

[alex_79]

Research helps,

That's a lost art, unfortunately.

[+KaeruYojimbo]

Research helps, Google cache still has it.

 

It reads like he needs help.

 

Oh, wow...

 

 

 

That's just it - I read the Titan Axe thread and didn't see anything like that either. I don't use Facebook, don't care for it and suggest anyone using it take a Facebook vacation; the whole concept of a Facebook "poke" isn't like coding in BASIC, it's like it sounds - poking someone to get a response; not exactly high level interaction. The twit site with it's tiny quips is even worse in that regard. I prefer sites like AtariAge forums that are more reminiscent of the BBS message boards bitd.

 

If there was a blow-up there it could be more related to the Facebook phenomena than real communication...

 

I think your negative view of facebook may have skewed your opinion of a discussion you didn't even see. No one "poked" anyone. Actual English words were used to have an exchange. And, not that it should matter, many of the participants in that exchange were active members of this forum.

 

 

 

Al I find this hard to believe because the programmer has always been polite and open minded; did you or someone else come at him with the 3rd grade insults first?

 

In the 80's fans would come up to us at expo's and line up for our autograph and everyone was always happy and smiling

 

Some of today's best programmers today have the worst behavior because they get really jealous - I work in parallel projects somtimes against a team of PhD's (none that have Andrew's background) and finish in a fraction of the time and they feel embarassed, come up with "idiot savant" (not a 3rd grade insult) and other personal insults; I see that in microcosm here when some of the best Assembly programmers got angry I created a BASIC that could scroll more smoothly than their Assembly games, angrier still when I added display lists like the 800 to support the video modes they were (not politely) demanding.

 

Feedback from gamers is consistently positive and I get it from all over the world just like bitd. The polarized reviews like the competitive programmer review of STARBLITZ compared to the German review above (google translate) illustrates that some of the programmers who follow me around posting ignore pictures (harassing not ignoring) while I'm having technical conversations are just jealous - silly because programming is individual, and I only choose to get inspired and keep learning when I see something cool. Close your mind, miss the fun.

 

I think folks should be friendly to programmers (and to everyone) like in the 80's:

 

No one was being unfriendly. They were simply offering up their experiences with your game in a polite and constructive manner.

 

Here's an example of being unfriendly: It is my experience that anyone who claims someone who doesn't like their work is just jealous of their talent isn't nearly as talented as they think.

 

 

And now papa is dangerous? c'mon, I suspect you're exaggerating and I haven't seen any indication of that.

 

Read the blog.

[Keatah]

I got scared reading through it. But at least I can hide behind my modem and play games.

[Mr SQL]

 

Oh, wow...

 

 

 

I think your negative view of facebook may have skewed your opinion of a discussion you didn't even see. No one "poked" anyone. Actual English words were used to have an exchange. And, not that it should matter, many of the participants in that exchange were active members of this forum.

 

 

 

No one was being unfriendly. They were simply offering up their experiences with your game in a polite and constructive manner.

 

Here's an example of being unfriendly: It is my experience that anyone who claims someone who doesn't like their work is just jealous of their talent isn't nearly as talented as they think.

 

 

 

Read the blog.

 

I posted the link to TJ's review a few pages back, it's a pretty polarized example; I don't mind the feedback but thought the personal insults were over the top, didn't need to be in the review. The threatening emails that followed were definitely unfriendly, so was following me around; not sure how you find that polite and constructive.

 

Where is the blog post you're referring to?

 

I got scared reading through it. But at least I can hide behind my modem and play games.

Now I really want to read it. Titan Axe is going to be worth a lot on ebay.

[CPUWIZ]

Please do not post the link here.

[Albert]

Papa was removed as a result of his own (repeated) actions, nobody else is to blame for it.

 

Please get back on topic.

 

..Al

[Thomas Jentzsch]

The threatening emails that followed were definitely unfriendly...

Thankfully someone told me about this post. Reported for outright lying, accusing me of a crime.

[Albert]

I posted the link to TJ's review a few pages back, it's a pretty polarized example; I don't mind the feedback but thought the personal insults were over the top, didn't need to be in the review. The threatening emails that followed were definitely unfriendly, so was following me around; not sure how you find that polite and constructive.

 

What threatening emails?

 

..Al

[Keatah]

I don't see it being worth a lot on ebay. Not because of the game or anything. I haven't played with it. The backlog of unplayed classic games is utterly overwhelming. I need to hire someone to play them for me.

 

It's my opinion that the more one-off (or low quantity) games that are put on cartridge, the less value future limited editions will exhibit.

 

It's one thing to have a library of 400 games on the market, with 5 being difficult to find. But to have 400 common games, and say 100 hard-to-finds, it's just part of the territory. There seems to be an inflection point where a collector suddenly devalues all the hard-to-finds and adopts an "if it comes my way, great" attitude. But no big deal.

 

At least that's how I see it.