Andromeda Stardust Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 There are some available: http://harbaum.org/till/mist/index.shtml http://www.fpgaarcade.com http://mcc-home.com/2.html Altough all version seem to miss something in terms of number of target systems they emulate. It would be cool to have a portable version: http://www.benheck.com/port-your-games-around-with-the-gameport/ Looks promising, but until they get a lot of mainstream consoles under their belt (VCS, NES/FC, SNES, Genny/MD, etc...). Also, cart slot or bust for me, even if I just plug a flash card into it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Also, cart slot or bust for me, even if I just plug a flash card into it. It would be infeasible to create a cart slot for every console possible. I don't see the added value of using a flash card instead of an SD-Card directly into the fpga thingy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Ironically due to mapper hell, it is far simpler to build an FPGA NES with an actual cart slot, than with an SD slot. It's a similar senario with SNES if you wanna support expansion chips. For other consoles, it varies. An all-in-one FPGA that runs multiple consoles from an SD card would be cool, but so is an FPGA that runs real carts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I have the MiST and to me it's the hands down winner for consumer level FPGA right now. https://code.google.com/p/mist-board/ Ironically due to mapper hell, it is far simpler to build an FPGA NES with an actual cart slot, than with an SD slot. Well the MiST has a very nice NES core right now... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercylon Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 You know... there are times where I feel like ditching all of the console stuff and just hook up my Mac Mini to the TV, get a bluetooth key board and mouse, and have a hub in place for any controllers and adapters I need (e.g., http://home.comcast.net/~tjhafner/Vision-daptor.htm). Between Open EMU and Steam, I would still have more than enough. Any physical games can just go in storage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandmountainslim Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I used to be against emulation and compared it to phone sex....BUT my mind has changed. When I played Pong or Atari or NES back years ago it was the GAMES I enjoyed not the plastic that made them spin. I love emulation and although I have real hardware also I love love love my Stella emulator and my VCS, NES and Gameboy emulators I have on my phone and tablet. Playing adventure on my VCS and CRT TV and playing it on my laptop are pretty much the same to me. Count me in as pro emu 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 There are some available: http://harbaum.org/till/mist/index.shtml http://www.fpgaarcade.com http://mcc-home.com/2.html Altough all version seem to miss something in terms of number of target systems they emulate. It would be cool to have a portable version: http://www.benheck.com/port-your-games-around-with-the-gameport/ Cool idea but the button layout on that thing is just awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 (edited) I'm thinking that some of us are attached more to the c4 experience, Cartridge-Console-Controller-CRT, than the actual game playing itself. It is a "flavor" of nostalgia surrounding the physical experience and ambiance. It stems from what you/they got into at that time, and why. Collecting or playing.. But in any case I'm willing to bet the gameplay and mechanics were second, a close second perhaps - to some of us. All that is absolutely perfectly fine. Whatever works. There is no right or wrong answer to the question of emulation or real thing. And I suspect many of us enjoy the hobby through a mixture of the two. Back in the day I transitioned into emulation out of need. I didn't have money (for game consoles) and was desperate, absolutely desperate to play and collect once again. I discovered Activision's ActionPacks, DASArcade, Sparcade, Microsoft Arcade (MSA is a re-write, not emulation), and some other experiments like Mike Cuddy's Gyruss sound emulator. Edited November 30, 2014 by Keatah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I'm thinking that some of us are attached more to the c4 experience, Cartridge-Console-Controller-CRT, than the actual game playing itself. It is a "flavor" of nostalgia surrounding the physical experience and ambiance. It stems from what you/they got into at that time, and why. Collecting or playing.. But in any case I'm willing to bet the gameplay and mechanics were second, a close second perhaps - to some of us. All that is absolutely perfectly fine. Whatever works. There is no right or wrong answer to the question of emulation or real thing. And I suspect many of us enjoy the hobby through a mixture of the two. Back in the day I transitioned into emulation out of need. I didn't have money (for game consoles) and was desperate, absolutely desperate to play and collect once again. I discovered Activision's ActionPacks, DASArcade, Sparcade, Microsoft Arcade (MSA is a re-write, not emulation), and some other experiments like Mike Cuddy's Gyruss sound emulator. Your four C's argument pretty much sums up the way I feel about it. It has to be real hardware, with a cart bus. If I preload a flash cart with ROMs, then so what? It's still authentic hardware. If the hardware isn't authentic, I'm willing to try it anyway, provided it doesn't suck. Most clones suck. Super Retro Trio is the best currently. I'm willing to pay $$$ for the AVS (HDMI FPGA NES that runs FC and NES) when it comes out at RetroUSB because I know it will be quality tech and run the games 100%. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrownd Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 I don't have any legacy hardware, nor any interest in sinking money and space into it, so I'm 100% emulation. When I want to use clunky hardware I break out the slot cars. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wongojack Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 You know... there are times where I feel like ditching all of the console stuff and just hook up my Mac Mini to the TV, get a bluetooth key board and mouse, and have a hub in place for any controllers and adapters I need (e.g., http://home.comcast.net/~tjhafner/Vision-daptor.htm). Between Open EMU and Steam, I would still have more than enough. Any physical games can just go in storage. I do this with an old PC - works great. But I also have lots of retro hardware. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 You know... there are times where I feel like ditching all of the console stuff and just hook up my Mac Mini to the TV, get a bluetooth key board and mouse, and have a hub in place for any controllers and adapters I need (e.g., http://home.comcast.net/~tjhafner/Vision-daptor.htm). Between Open EMU and Steam, I would still have more than enough. Any physical games can just go in storage. Link is broken. Go ahead and sell your hardware. More retro stuff for us old school collectors to hoard! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamchevy Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 While were on the topic of emulation. Has anyone ever seen or used a vectrex emulator for the Xbox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Dart Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Have one on my Wii (that and xbox are my go-to emu boxes), never got it working. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercylon Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Link is broken. Go ahead and sell your hardware. More retro stuff for us old school collectors to hoard! I didn't say I would... comes to mind as I trip over something. The link was supposed to be for some USB controller adapters for the real controllers. There is thread on the forums somewhere.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Just thought I'd throw this out there: Everdrive 64 v3 has a built-in NES emulator. Play NES games on an N64 Flash Cart. I guess that's one more console I can get rid of now... LOL, just kidding! I could never sell my beloved NES! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Dart Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 It would be infeasible to create a cart slot for every console possible. I don't see the added value of using a flash card instead of an SD-Card directly into the fpga thingy. The value of the flash cart is that it'll run on the actual console, and the actual carts will play on the new hardware. If it won't run on a real console, then why bother with any specialized hardware over the PC you already own? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland p Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 If it won't run on a real console, then why bother with any specialized hardware over the PC you already own?- No overhead of an operating system - Accuracy of emulation - Plug and Play factor - Video output in native resolution. There was a thread about fpga vs emulation (Also Keatah's ): http://atariage.com/forums/topic/214898-fpga-vs-emulation-what-is-your-choice/?mode=show 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 - No overhead of an operating system - Accuracy of emulation - Plug and Play factor - Video output in native resolution. There was a thread about fpga vs emulation (Also Keatah's ): http://atariage.com/forums/topic/214898-fpga-vs-emulation-what-is-your-choice/?mode=show What a nice little debate. I do see a number of "boutique" consoles coming out for various systems in the coming years. AVS (aka HDMI NES) from RetroUSB will likely be the first. Certainly a vast improvement over the Retron5 for sure. I believe the holy grail of FPGA hardware emulation as hardware gets faster would be a fully functional N64. I believe we will see it someday! One quick question though regarding the FPGA vs emulation issue: Sure real hardware have multiple chips going on in tandem. Why is it nearly every console emulator still runs single core? Put the CPU on one thread, the PPU on another thread, the RAM on another, the cart bus, etc... There's typically way more than enough CPU cache (typically 8Mbytes or more) in modern processors to hold the entire emulator plus whatever background processes exist on the host OS. Eight core processors are a reality so why not use them? Can modern x86-64 CPU cores not communicate in realtime? If the latency is shorter than one system clock on a retro system, it should be doable. So multi-thread those emus already... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Eight core processors are a reality so why not use them? Can modern x86-64 CPU cores not communicate in realtime? 1- I believe it is a matter of the programmers getting used to doing things a new way. Emulation has been single core for so long, and so many techniques were developed toward that end. Parallel programming isn't easy either. There's a load of untapped potential here. Anyways, it's high time they upped their game. 2- I don't see why not.. Inter-core, inter-die, cache-snooping, cache coherency, all sorts of goodness regarding core communications happens in X86-64. And software can augment what they don't do out of the box. They're so crazy-nuts fast compared to classic computers, too. Spare cycles to burn! The theory of ops and data sheets from intel are great reads for the semi-technical layperson. Like so: nehalemPaper.pdf ..there are more up-to-date ones describing today's parts, but this is what I had on hand at the moment. Edited December 2, 2014 by Keatah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamchevy Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Have one on my Wii (that and xbox are my go-to emu boxes), never got it working.I'll give it a shot on the Wii, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercylon Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) 1- I believe it is a matter of the programmers getting used to doing things a new way. Emulation has been single core for so long, and so many techniques were developed toward that end. Parallel programming isn't easy either. There's a load of untapped potential here. Anyways, it's high time they upped their game. 2- I don't see why not.. Inter-core, inter-die, cache-snooping, cache coherency, all sorts of goodness regarding core communications happens in X86-64. And software can augment what they don't do out of the box. They're so crazy-nuts fast compared to classic computers, too. Spare cycles to burn! The theory of ops and data sheets from intel are great reads for the semi-technical layperson. Like so: nehalemPaper.pdf ..there are more up-to-date ones describing today's parts, but this is what I had on hand at the moment. I guess one could ask former Sega Saturn developers how hard it is to code for more than one processor, though I suspect things are a bit easier now. Surely... the games made for the last and current generation must be able to use multiple cores since PS3/PS4 Xbox360/XBox One are built that way, but I don't know. Over my head. If they can't do it for the AI of a game, that explains a lot..... Edited December 2, 2014 by cybercylon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 As far as AI taking advantage of multiple cores, if there's multiple opponents, then it is by default a massively parallel operation. Suppose you have an army of Orcs in a tactical battle MMORPG. Each Orc has it's own AI and reacts slightly differently to it's surroundings. Such a game would only work on a multi-threaded CPU/Game Engine. Well, a CPU has instructions and a GPU has instructions. To well defined characters with vastly different "brains". Set each to a different core and let them exchange information a million times per second. That's a thousand cycles on a Gigahertz CPU. Even if the latency of the CPU cache between cores is dozens of cycles (which would be terribly slow for CPU cache), there will be hundreds of CPU cycles left over to spare between when the emulated chips need to sync up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 As far as AI taking advantage of multiple cores, if there's multiple opponents, then it is by default a massively parallel operation. Suppose you have an army of Orcs in a tactical battle MMORPG. Each Orc has it's own AI and reacts slightly differently to it's surroundings. Such a game would only work on a multi-threaded CPU/Game Engine. Well, a CPU has instructions and a GPU has instructions. To well defined characters with vastly different "brains". Set each to a different core and let them exchange information a million times per second. That's a thousand cycles on a Gigahertz CPU. Even if the latency of the CPU cache between cores is dozens of cycles (which would be terribly slow for CPU cache), there will be hundreds of CPU cycles left over to spare between when the emulated chips need to sync up again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 X-Plane uses as many cores as you have. Tasks divided among the multiple-cores are: 1- scenery loading 2- AI aircraft behavior 3- flight models 4- user input 5- main window view All that is separate from whatever GPU configuration you're running, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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