Can you live on emulation only 100% ?

[Keatah]

Do you think you could do all your classic gaming and retro computing via emulation? And never use the original hardware again?

 

Think about these points.

 

1- Some people here are selling what amounts to a good collection of carts and consoles. Something that if I had it I wouldn't be selling it. Which leads to the next point.

 

2- Perhaps you're being "coerced", somehow, into getting rid of your stuff.. Emulation could be the perfect replacement. Maybe even grander and bolder that what you had before! It worked for me.

 

3- There are distinct advantages to emulation such as:

a) Inherently compatible with modern displays.

b) Convenience. Play anytime anyplace. Takes up almost zero space

c) Availability. Replacement hardware can be brawt from Big-Box.

d) Reliability. Less cables, switches, connectors, and parts to go bad.

e) Versatility. Save games, speed ups, cheats, debuggers, pause, mods, hacks.

f) Cost of acquisition, maintenance, and showcasing.

g) Documentation management

 

4- A big disadvantage to many is that it appears as if the essence of classic computing and retrogaming is lost through emulation.

 

5- The wow factor is less with emulation. An old Atari VCS looks like an old Atari VCS! It has the potential to be a great conversation piece; whereas an emulator is just another program on a boring beige-box from big-box. The magic & wonder of running classic hardware and software on a modern PC is lost on most all of us.

 

6- Rebuilding a once-great collection can be overwhelming and beyond tedious. Perhaps even boring. Or worse, depressing.

 

7- Emulation is elegant and efficient; for all the reasons stated in #3. It's the new way to enjoy the old!

 

8- Emulation is the cure for OCD induced hoarding. Or at least the best way to mask the symptoms.

 

So in considering the above, what do you think about emulation as the one single method of classic gaming and computing?

[Omega-TI]

Hell no!

I got so tired of things not working properly, glitches, hangups, hiccups, sound issues, incompatible programs, etc. Programs like MESS are a mess, you'll spend so much time screwing with the program, you never get to enjoy the classic programs. Who needs the hassle and issues?

 

NOTHING BEATS THE REAL DEAL

[Keatah]

I agree that M.E.S.S. is a mess. One of the worst-organized programs I've ever used. To me it's a necessary evil I'm all to happy to replace. But right now (and in the future) it's the only way I can enjoy the Astrocade. Other emulators have treated me nicely, however, exhibiting high compatibility factors.

[akator]

I own a lot of original hardware. Not as much as I used to, but still more than I can possibly use each year.

 

However, these days I find myself using emulation much more than hardware. It's massively easier. More importantly, it's conventient by not being location specific, meaning I don't have to be where the hardware is setup to enjoy emulation.

 

The first emulator I used was in the 80s to run Apple II software on a Mac Plus. I loved emulation then and still do. It is entirely possible to experience the best of classic gaming and computing through emulation.

 

You won't get everything through emulation, but there's a lot of crap that comes with the 100% authentic experience. These days hardware is failing more frequently, requiring more maintenance and repairs than ever.

 

Here's how my pattern goes:

• November - February = In love with hardware. Look at it, use it, buy more of it.
• March - May = Disillusioned with breakdowns, maintenence, repairs, expenses, crappy sellers and resellers, frustration.
• June - August = Rediscover emulation and start enjoying retro computing and gaming again, having a great time.
• September - October = Good emulation experiences get me thinking about how much fun it would be to use real hardware again.
• Repeat.

But every year I'm less enthusiastic about the hardware. I want to enjoy things, not fight with them, and things have been shifting heavily in favor of emulation over the last few years.

 

Even so, I can't see getting rid of all the hardware. Even if I went 100% emulation, I would still want to keep original controlllers to use with adapters (I already do that). Even the broken machines are still fun to look at and touch. As long as I have room, I'm sure I'll keep a few or the things aroung because I like them.

[tep392]

These advantages that are important to you are not for me. The problem with emulation is that it doesn't give me any feelings of nastalgia, which is part of the reason I enjoy playing with these systems from my childhood. I get enjoyment from plugging that cartridge into the console and sitting back with a real joystick in hand for some retro game playing. And the realiability argument isn't important either. I'm an electronics guy and have just as much fun fixing these systems as playing them.

 

For me, the emulator is just a tool for testing/debuging games that I am working on. Or a convienient way to try out games and systems that I might be interested in buying. If there comes a day when I can no longer play on the original hardware, I will just have to find a new hobby.

[SIO2]

To answer the question: NO, I could not enjoy emulation only.

 

I agree with Tep392. Emulation is great for testing and debuging software.

 

Emulation is also nice when I want to play something made for that rare system tucked away at the back of the closet and I am just too lazy to dig the system out and hook it up.

 

For the games I have been enjoying for thirty plus years, the real hardware is always on my desk and backup hardware in storage.

 

A big part of the my interest in classic games is the fact that the hardware was there at the dawn of home gaming and that it still works.

[Andromeda Stardust]

My two cents: I downloaded an NES emulator and a bunch of ROMs to my 1999 PC and was playing them on a Logitech gamepad. It didn't wow me very much.

 

2002: After my dad passed away, we found an old CIB NES Action Set in my garage while cleaning house. The very same that I begged my mom for at Christmas every year as a child. It took like 20 minutes of huffing and puffing on the carts before I got game to load. But after that, it was magical. I went down to Game-x-Change and went berserk buying awesome games.

 

Having tried both, I can honestly say they are not the same thing. Nothing beats original hardware the way they were meant to be played: put the cart into the console and play it using authentic controllers and a CRT TV.

 

There is nothing nostalgic about emulators. Even a bit of the magic is lost using flash carts, although I do own several. ROM sorting and collecting is boring, tedious, and lame. Maintaining systems and collecting carts, while expensive, can be very fun and rewarding as a hobby.

 

Honestly sorting ROMs on a hard drive is more of a pain than getting a troublesome cart to load. Another thing about ROMs, is people tend to play a ROM for like two minutes, then swap it out for another. Doing so never really gives the gamer the opportunity to get a feel for a game and really learn how to play it.

 

For best of both worlds, you can use the internet to get help when your stuck or learn about new games, go shopping, etc, but do the actual gaming on a console, not a PC emulator. Also support your local used game shops. If you have game stores in your area, stop by and browse the local selection before you shop online or head to eBay/Amazon.

[TPA5]

Really good topic, and good points Keatah. It's something I have thought a lot about, and honestly I guess I'm still not sure where I stand. Personally, I really, really, prefer using original hardware. Whether it's computing or gaming, I like the feel and experience of the actual hardware. That's not to say I don't emulate, I most definitely use emulation relatively often. It's nice to be able to play classic DOS games on my Macbook, SNES games on my Raspberry Pi, and 2600 games on my DS Lite.

 

That being said, if I'm at home and I have a choice, I'll play PC games on one of my PC's, SNES games on my SNES, and 2600 games on my 2600. Emulation definitely has its place, and I think as the maker movement continues to explode in popularity we'll see more projects that look like the original hardware, but with emulation boards inside, like the Altair 8800 reproduction kit.

 

Eventually, I'm sure emulation will be the only practical way for people to experience the machines of yester-year. But in this moment I personally prefer the 'real steel' to emulation.

[VectorGamer]

The only time I play console games in emulation is if there is a game in development I will fire it up and test it out.

 

I play arcade games in MAME but only on cabinets using arcade controls.

 

I work in IT so I'm stuck at a computer all day messing around on AtariAge, Facebook, Twitter and other Internet forums. When I'm not working I like to be detached from a computer and gaming in emulation won't give me that. I know that technically a console is a computer, but gaming in a recliner in front of the TV is a nostalgic experience that I can't get with emulation.

 

Also, I enjoy collecting cartridges. If I switched to emulation entirely there would be no reason to attend a gaming expo as the main reason I go is for the marketplace and finding cartridges for my collection. I also like to hit up the thrift stores in my area and it's a thrill when you can find some cartridges at a good price for your collection.

[Cynicaster]

I understand the "real hardware or bust" mentality--I really do--but thankfully I don't subscribe to it, myself.

 

I just like playing the games, and emulation provides me that luxury, without the boxes of "stuff" to trip over. Another thing is that I have a hard time using the original controllers for most retro systems for more than a few minutes at a time, which severely detracts from the enjoyment.

 

For some reason, Atari 2600 is the only system I can't enjoy on emulation, so I have 3 of those kicking around, plus a Harmony Cart. For the rest, emulation is a true gift that I'm very thankful to have available.

[Flojomojo]

I definitely headed towards emulation only, apart from pigging out on all 4 AtGames Flashback consoles, which don't count as old systems. I haven't seen an Atari cartridge in the wild for almost a decade, and I no longer have a CRT TV in the house. When the Intellivision Flashback came out, I thought I'd get a cheap thrift store television for playing the old games, but I just couldn't do it. I couldn't bring a nasty old boxy TV into the house. Not when everything works on the big wallmount plasma screen, and looks amazing, too. Not when I can play the same Intellivision games on a Nintendo DS.

 

My favorite retro activity these days is to kick back with the digital edition of Retro Gamer magazine on my iPad with Nvidia Shield or OUYA nearby for trying things out, especially games I have never played. The Shield is like having the contents of a whole mid-1990s Electronic Boutique store in the palm of my hand. My second favorite retro activity is running old GOG games on my tiny Asus T100 laptop. It was $200 on ebay and runs all the stuff I always wanted to play when I could not afford a nice PC.

 

I still have many (though not all) of my old systems, but they're all in tupperware boxes in my basement. Cartridges, especially those that hold 2K of data, seem as stupid as rocking a big beige PC with serial ports and floppy drives. I've ripped all my music CDs and stashed them. I know it's extremely unlikely that I'd ever take them out again, but I feel I should "keep it legal" by not disposing of them while keeping the digital files.

 

Modern tech is so cheap, powerful, and efficient nowadays. I'm seriously wondering if I even need to keep my iMac, since so much of my stuff is in the cloud and I don't use the desktop so much. It takes a lot of space and uses a fair bit of electricity.

 

Similarly, handheld devices are way more easy to find time and space to play than the big TV consoles. Vita, 3DS, DS, PSP, all the mobile games ... more stuff than time!

 

Even my dreams of making a honking big MAME cabinet are fading away. It just seems like a wacky waste of space, considering I can get more than 80% of the essence from emulation. Games with unique controls (Spy Hunter and Star Wars are my favorites) are missed, but there's no easy way to replicate single-purpose things.

[+Gemintronic]

Hell no!

I got so tired of things not working properly, glitches, hangups, hiccups, sound issues, incompatible programs, etc. Programs like MESS are a mess, you'll spend so much time screwing with the program, you never get to enjoy the classic programs. Who needs the hassle and issues?

 

 

I've had an equal (if not more) amount of problems with the "real thing". Awful signals from my Ataris. Playstations and Dreamcasts that instantly wear out the CD drives. Intellivisions that cook themselves. Tandy and Odyssey systems with easily breakable joysticks. Those problems you cite aren't a rallying cry for me. Just recognition that sheet happens.

 

Nevertheless, I do respect your opinion and recognize why you feel that way.

[roland p]

I could live with emulation only. It's all about playing games.

 

That said, I'm not sure what the best way to emulate is. I now have a PSP which is great but not perfect (resolution is not very compatible and blurs). There is a gcw-zero handheld but it's hard to get. A 'pyra' handheld is in the makings, not available yet. I'm trying my xperia play (android), but it feels a bit clumsy to me (keyboard mappings for uae4droid don't work, genesis emulator is full of ads. Haven't tried more but I'm already tired of it).

[Emehr]

Both serve different needs. I love what emulation is doing for software preservation. It's absolutely fantastic. On the other hand, the experience is a constant rat race in terms of maintaining and upgrading hardware to keep up with the latest releases that provide better emulation or user experience. The console will always play the games perfectly and originally as intended. It will never have to be upgraded.

 

A good set-up for me would be having original consoles with Everdrive cartridges. I could then lean out my already-lean collection of cartridges and still try out new homebrews as they come out. I could never go full-on emulation only simply because I like the tactile feel of gaming. I like handling the cartridges and looking at the artwork on the labels. I enjoy flipping through print manuals and maps. It's all part of the original experience. Emulation only captures a part of that.

[+wongojack]

Emulation is probably a better solution for actually playing the games. I like the additional options for non-standard controllers and some of the emulation features like save state as well as hacks and cheats. However, playing the games is only part of the hobby. I also enjoy learning about and collecting the original hardware as well as tinkering around with it and improving or hacking it.

[omegadot]

For MAME -> yes in my cab. But unless I'm traveling I want to sit in front of a console and a TV. I work on PCs all day and do a lot of work at home as well. Being on a computer means work to me and the point is lost.

 

I like the nostalgia but it's not a major driving force for me.

[Nebulon]

No.

 

 

After about a year I'd start getting the itch to get my hands on real hardware (at least for certain systems).

[0078265317]

_{Emulation is good for some things like beating old games but nothing beats the feel of the original hardware and accessories.}

[wolfy62]

No! For me it is still about that feeling of getting something cool for the old hardware complete in a pretty box.

 

That is just me, and for anyone else your opinion and choice is great too!

[Rex Dart]

Live? Of course. It's just games.

But I'd know in my mind that it's inferior, an imitation, a wanna-be. I did the emulation thing through the late 90s and early 00s, had my fill of it when it was a neat trick for the Dreamcast to do. It's a convenient way to try out systems you don't own, for sure, but it'll never be the same as wiggling the controller plug into place, feeling the cart snap into position & the *thunk* of the power switch.

[+remowilliams]

Emulation only, probably not. Simulation (FPGA) only - definite maybe...

[Andromeda Stardust]

Just though of something. Instead of carts, special write-protected SD cards. Produce a "Console" preferably FPGA based with HDMI output, that takes SD "carts" and controller ports for a variety of classic 8-bit and 16-bit systems.

 

Because the SD cards have their write-protect tabs permanently glued, you can't overwrite the game. A forum member in on the scheme could buy the SD cards wholesale and "burn" the ROMs on, with a dot of superglue on the write protect tab to make it permanent.

 

You get the benefit of emulation as well as a physical "collection" of ROMs, as well you can rebuy all your favorite classic games on physical media without the clutter of dozens of systems and hundreds or thousands of carts and bulky TVs to play them on.

 

Of course, you could buy a stock SD card yourself and preload it with all the ROMs you want and not buy into the nickle-and-diming BS, but that takes the fun out of collecting, doesn't it?

 

[dashv]

Great topic.

 

Emulation all the way? Not me. For many of the reasons mentioned by stardust4ever and many of the others above.

 

Some things I want to play I can only experience right now via emulation.

 

Arcadia-2001

3DO

Sega CD (via my XBox)

 

Until I happen upon sane deals for the above in good working condition. Emulation is the best I got.

 

Other things I can only experience at all through the real hardware.

 

Phillips CDi (there are 2 emus but they are still quite primitive in what's actually supported)

 

People give this system a lot of flak but I'm enjoying my experience with it so far.

 

I'm also really enjoying hybrid approaches like what's offered by the Retron 5.

 

I can play my Mega Man cartridge using my NES controller but have all the benefits of an emulator.

 

For playing my games on the go I tend to go back and forth between my PSP with emus and a Retro Duo Portable V2 with real carts. It depends on how much stuff I want to carry around with me.

 

I can tell you though. Being out in public gaming on a PSP no one notices or cares. Sit on a park bench playing Star Fox or Super Mario/Duck Hunt from the Cart on an RDP and people will come right up to you and start up a conversation.

 

The hardware garners respect. A pile of roms running on commodity computers/cell phones... not so much.

Edited November 21, 2014 by dashv

[skosh]

My answer would be no as the experience is just not the same and not for the nostalgic sense but from a timing standpoint. Even the very best emulators suffer from it and if you where to play the same game(system vs. original) the difference becomes obvious. With that said... if I wanted to write some code and experiment with older systems then yes it is fine much like virtual systems are used today. Is it really that hard to have a CRT and systems to enjoy the originals? I'd say that each has its purpose.

[adamchevy]

Retro gaming to me is a hobby, just like golfing might be for someone else. Try telling a golfer that we can just emulate your experience here in this super amazing simulator. You don't even need to use real clubs, just hold this fancy simulated golf grip and it will behave like the real thing. You don't need to go out on a real course ever again or have any of that golf equipment.

I can see there being a time and a place for something like that, and maybe that's a poor comparison but I think you get my point. I think something is lost that you can never experience in exactly the same way.