Male Privelage in Gaming

[Metal Ghost]

http://www.polygon.com/2014/12/3/7326305/25-benefits-gaming-while-male-feminist-frequency

 

A highly recommended watch.

[TPA5]

Well, this oughta be a good topic.

 

 

*grabs popcorn*

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

Highly recommended? OK but I'll pass because the source video was "Created and hosted by Anita Sarkeesian" , it's from her Youtube channel and for those not aware she is a "feminist" who has proven time and again that she twists views and evidence as well as does and says things for shock value, while on the surface she tried to come off as being for woman's and equal rights in fact her own comments and views lean more towards the "ALL MEN ARE EVIL", "ALL MEN ARE MURDERER'S", "ALL MEN ARE RAPIST" mindset. IE: She is a radical that gives true feminists and those who truly want "equal" rights a bad name, because of this I cannot seriously comment on anything she has anything to do with.

 

http://youtu.be/QJeX6F-Q63I

 

http://youtu.be/WuRSaLZidWI

Edited December 3, 2014 by OldSchoolRetroGamer

[+Random Terrain]

My Firefox spell checker says that "Privelage" is spelled wrong. It's supposed to be "Privilege."

 

About the video, if we make gaming better, who will save the princess? Doesn't every game have to be about saving a helpless female in the hopes that she might touch it?

[cimerians]

lol....Seth is awesome.

 

I agree with some of the things that Anita Sarkeesian brings up though but not EVERYTHING she says. There's wacko's out there and even if someone doesn't like her she doesn't deserve death threats and some of the stuff I've seen directed at her.

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

lol....Seth is awesome.

 

I agree with some of the things that Anita Sarkeesian brings up though but not EVERYTHING she says. There's wacko's out there and even if someone doesn't like her she doesn't deserve death threats and some of the stuff I've seen directed at her.

 

http://youtu.be/UgHmTmUjFF0

[FastRobPlus]

Okay, Sarkesian may not have uttered a single truthful statement since she began poisoning gamers with her oddball religion. But maybe she’s leveled up from her usual tirade of subjective one-line assertions. Let’s watch a bit of this new video and find out…

Opening statement:
“Here is a list of some of the invisible yet concrete benefits imparted by being a male gamer:”

1. "I can choose to remain completely oblivious or indifferent to the harassment that many women face in gaming spaces.”
Verdict: Semi-true!

As a male playing in a gaming space (for example Xbox Live) I can ignore – or even mute! – trolls I hear calling the lone woman on the server “bitch”. I can also ignore or mute the trolls who call me a “noob” or a “faggot” because I elected to use a gender neutral gamertag and they can’t identify whether I’m male or female, so they have to resort to more generic slurs. I can also report the trolls using the built-in policing tools. Hmm… come to think of it, perhaps a better way to phrase statement number 1 would have been:
"Online trolls will use knowledge that you are female against you if they can, just as they will use any knowledge they can possibly glean about anyone against them if they can, because they suck as human beings.”

2. “I have never been told that videogames and the surrounding culture are not intended for me because I am male”
Verdict: Untrue.

The last two games I worked on were Adera and Disney Fairies: Secret of the Wings Both games were targeted at female gamers primarily. If a guy were to come up to me today and say “Hey I like Disney Fairies but I think it would be better if Tinkerbell showed a lot more cleavage.” I would tell them “I’m glad you like the game but I don’t feel that the majority of players - female gamers ages 8-14 - really agree that they want more cleavage in this game. Have you considered buying Bayonetta?”

3. “I can publicly post my username, gamertagg, or contact information online without fear of harassment or stalking.”
Verdict: Holy Shit! No! No! No!

You absolutely cannot and should not publicly post your real name online without fear of harassment (see my response to point #1 above). In fact even using your real name somewhere in your gamertag is a violation of Xbox Live terms of service for this very reason. The cases I have personally seen where police/FBI actually intervene in online stalking and harassment and ask questions have all involved minors, but they weren’t female.
This statement is so out of touch with reality that I can’t help but be reminded of the people who think reading Harry Potter books can be dangerous because they make you susceptible to demonic possession. It is that asinine.

4. “I’ll never be asked to prove my gaming cred simply because of my gender.”

Verdict: False (and also isn’t this the same as #2 above?)

A member of “PMS Clan” called me out for being male once. She said “I thought guys weren’t supposed to suck this bad at Halo!”*

*full disclosure: I kind of suck at Halo.

 

Actually thinking about this again, does this mean that next Retro Gaming event I go to I can play in any of the tournaments without bothering to qualify? After all, if statement #4 is correct shouldn't only girls have to first pass a qualifying round? Or at the very least, a special "girls only" qualifying round to make sure they can move on to the real qualifying round?

No? We'll then, false Q.E.D.

 

 

5. “If I’m expressing my fondness for videogames, nobody will accuse me of faking my interest in games just to get attention.”
Verdict: False. (and also isn’t this just a different way of sating #4 above?)

Male of female, I will totally accuse you of faking interest in games just to get attention (or more likely ‘credibility’) if I think that's what you are doing.

 

For example: Donna (not her real name) was Sr. Online engagement manager for Xbox Live for about 2 years. Walking from Millennium B to the cafeteria once she remarked that she felt she wasn’t taken seriously as a hardcore Xbox gamer by the other Xbox gamers on the team.

My response was “What’s your gamertag?”

She didn’t have one.

Also for #5 I must add that Sarkesian is probably projecting here a little bit. Many in the gaming community do call her out as a shill and a non-gamer.
There is video footage of her responding during Q&A to a small auditorium back when she was a "pop media critic" saying that she doesn’t like games (I think you can find the clip in the vids OldSchoolRetroGamer posted) but then a year later she’s made a whole new career exposing male privilege in gaming while saying she was always a lifelong gamer…

And you wonder why some people say that she’s faking it for attention or credibility...

Okay that’s the top 5 of her 25 easily dismissed as factually and demonstrably inaccurate.

Why does anyone still listen to her? Are we just starved because Jack Thompson seems to have faded away and we need a new villain? For now at least she seems to be employing some "sounds about right" style pop psychology to get a lot of people agreeing with her. It reminds me of that fable about the kid at a science fair who got all the parents to sign a petition banning the school's unregulated use of di-hydrogen monoxide... It sounds so reasonable until you actually do a tiny bit of fact-checking.

Edited December 4, 2014 by FastRobPlus

[WestofHouse]

If it weren't for the threats of rape and violence this whole thing would be amusing. It's funny how frightened some men are of an intelligent woman who speaks her mind. It's okay, kids. The scary women aren't going to take your toys away. Everything will be all right.

Edited December 4, 2014 by WestofHouse

[S1500]

You already lost me at "male privilege". Yeah, two words for you: selective service.

[FastRobPlus]

If it weren't for the threats of rape and violence this whole thing would be amusing.

 

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

-Christopher Hitchens

[WestofHouse]

 

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

-Christopher Hitchens

 

If you refuse to acknowledge the evidence that has been published by multiple sources then there is no point in discussing anything with you. It's like taking with a Holocaust denier.

 

Lack of evidence you agree with is does not equal lack of evidence.

Edited December 4, 2014 by WestofHouse

[FastRobPlus]

If you have evidence, why not show it? The video linked at the start of the topic was a long string of assertions without any evidence offered. The only evidence given in this thread has been mine and that contained in the rebuttal videos, which I doubt you have viewed, but are really quite ironclad.

 

And for the record, I and most others are absolutely holocaust deniers. I for example deny the holocaust said to have been caused by the great flood that wiped out all life on Earth as told in the Epic of Gilgamesh, because geologists have found no evidence for it.

 

 

Reminder:

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

-Christopher Hitchens

[roland p]

They all sound like Anita Sarkeesian

 

Most shocking about this video is that Tim Schafer is contributing.

 

#25 Because it was created by a straight white male, this checklist will likely be taken more seriously than if it had been written by virtually any female gamer.

I wish they did, the video would be more interesting if they interviewed some real female 'gamers' (I hate the word 'gamer', it's stereotypical thinking, that's not what we want, right? ).

 

Just let some random guys say something Anita Sarkeesian has made up > fail.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

2. “I have never been told that videogames and the surrounding culture are not intended for me because I am male”

Verdict: Untrue.

The last two games I worked on were Adera and Disney Fairies: Secret of the Wings Both games were targeted at female gamers primarily. If a guy were to come up to me today and say “Hey I like Disney Fairies but I think it would be better if Tinkerbell showed a lot more cleavage.” I would tell them “I’m glad you like the game but I don’t feel that the majority of players - female gamers ages 8-14 - really agree that they want more cleavage in this game. Have you considered buying Bayonetta?”

"Have you considered buying Bayonetta?" Epic punchline. FTR, my fiance is getting me this game for Christmas...

 

As for Anita Sarkesian, sure getting a bunch of men to recite lines is all well and good, and I gotta give her props for this new strategy, but it comes off as half-assed in a way. These comments are toung and cheek because they're not from the heart. A better strategy would be guys explaining to other guys why it's wrong to trash women. At least I can say with honesty that as a man, I'm offended when other men treat women like dirt.

Edited December 5, 2014 by stardust4ever

[FastRobPlus]

Men treating women badly is a symptom of a much larger issue. For instance:

 

• There are groups of people who say mental illness isn't a real health issue, and anyone with an illness such as PTSD is "faking it."
• The hosts of a popular women's talk show called "The Talk" laughed and made fun of a recent news item about a man whose penis was cut off and blended in a blender by his wife.
• An NFL player was recently filmed in an elevator punching his fiancée.

 

While it’s true that all people are equal in the eyes of the law, and all people deserve equal rights, we live in a world containing some objectively, demonstrably worse human beings than ourselves.

 

This new kind of feminism attempts to shine a light on all the instances where one of these lower quality humans threatens to abuse a woman, and rightly so.

But they add in a new twist. They tell us that in all cases we created these people by our actions or inactions.

This is the very same sort of logic used by people that told us that rape and murder were coming from the new-fangled rock-and-roll music.

This is the same twisted logic as the parent who says: "Oh, you like beer. Well you know who else liked beer? Stalin!!"

 

 

Let's stop pretending that we as individuals are culpable for the behavior or actions of lower quality people we have never met, just because the person professes to like something that we also like.

[Tupin]

I find it funny Sarkeesian is so big on all of this stuff when not even five years ago she was a literal shill for a guy that was all about running seminars to teach men about messing with women's minds to get into their pants. Literally, what she did was basically stand near him and say "Yep, all women are this easy, we fold once you do these things to us, can confirm, am a woman"

 

Considering the person who wrote the article, too, yeah. Look up "Full McIntosh" and remind yourself never to go Full McIntosh.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Men treating women badly is a symptom of a much larger issue. For instance:

• The hosts of a popular women's talk show called "The Talk" laughed and made fun of a recent news item about a man whose penis was cut off and blended in a blender by his wife.

I've heard stories about this stuff. Most of the time, the women plead they acted in self defense and got away with it. No offense to anyone who may feel otherwise, but mutilating any person's genitals, male or female, regardless of the motive, is just grotesque and heinous. This is just another example of law enforcement almost unanimously siding with the female when there's any kind of domestic violence dispute. Ditto for child custody battles nearly always going in favor of the mother, barring any sort of substance abuse problem.

[Tupin]

They have a whole system of excuses about how "oh it's just the patriarchy backfiring" or "men have negative expectations of them because they think women are weaker" when in actuality neither of those are true. Women basically define what is masculine and men fall in line to that, just as men once did the inverse. The video in the OP is pretty freaking sad to me because it's an example of how ashamed this generation of men have become of themselves. It's pathetic and sad. They basically live for a woman to agree with them, to tell them that they're not like all those other men and if they have to throw the baby out with the bathwater they're okay with that.

 

What's tragically ironic about this generation of feminism at least in the West is that it couldn't exist without men. Specifically, men who were failed and see themselves as terrible inherently, and supporting people like this is their only way to alleviate guilt.

 

How this has to do with video games, no clue.

[FastRobPlus]

I'd have to think carefully about whether I agree with you on all your points, but one point I agree on completely is that this whole "Culture of Hating Women" does not actually exist in video gaming. The most you can really say is that men who actively dislike women are very possibly gamers, since in western culture nearly 70% of adults play games.

 

Sarkesian and the other feminists would be better served by framing the issue as an epidemic among liquid drinkers, since that would even snag the last 30%

[Jess Ragan]

Remember when people thought retro gamers were smart? Yeah, those were the days.

 

Russ Perry, come back! Whatever we did, we're sorry!

[Tupin]

I could swear at least one of these people have said that retro games continuing to be popular/re-released is bad because people are still playing the games that "started" the "problems" and thus not changing their views.

[Jess Ragan]

1. Video games have been crass for a really long time. There's been a push against the cute and harmless and toward the violent and anti-social, to the point where most games are that way. I don't think it's wrong to expect better or at least different every once in a while.

 

2. Sarkeesian is viewed as this ogre who's hellbent on making games bland and inoffensive, but she really doesn't have the power to do anything beyond speaking her mind. There's this paranoid fantasy that she's going to take everyone's toys away, but that's not what she's doing here. She's just offering feminist criticism, which is common in a lot of other forms of media. I haven't watched any of her work, but I've heard what she does is pretty basic and even fairly mild. It's no threat to anyone, although the humongous overreaction to what she does certainly doesn't make the industry or any of us look any better. C'mon, threats of violence? Harassment? Rape threats? It's just a little out of hand here.

[WestofHouse]

Remember when people thought retro gamers were smart? Yeah, those were the days.

 

Russ Perry, come back! Whatever we did, we're sorry!

 

Yeah, it's somewhat depressing to find that people of the ilk who were kicked out of 4chan (!) are hanging around here.

[Pixelboy]

You already lost me at "male privilege". Yeah, two words for you: selective service.

I haven't watched the videos to really get into the subject matter of this thread (sorry, kinda busy right now) but isn't the word "prevalence" the word that should actually be used instead of "privelage" or "privilege"?

[FastRobPlus]

Video games have been crass for a really long time. There's been a push against the cute and harmless and toward the violent and anti-social, to the point where most games are that way.

 

Really? Most games?

 

This sounds like yet another assertion without evidence. What's your source for this?

Are you saying that Candy Crush is crass and uncute? It's moved more than 200 million copies across just iOS and Android. That's more than any single game title has sold for Wii/360/X1/PS3 and PS4 combined.

 

Or were you just referring to AAA console games?

I wonder, when you think about media, do you only think about blockbuster movies?

 

And where were you when Adera: The Shifting Sands and Disney Fairies: Hidden Treasures came out? I worked for over a year on these two games as the gameplay and usability researcher, making sure they were as fun and inclusive as possible. Have you even bothered to try the free version in the Win 8 app store? They were both in the top 10 there for most of 2013-14. Adera was first bumped from the top spot by Tap Tiles. Was TapTiles crass and anti-social?

 

Do you think assertions without evidence are in some way helping your "Video games have been crass for a really long time" problem statement? Is this all you are doing? I can count on my fingers the number of folks here who have rolled up their sleeves and produced games, but the number of people complaining that things were better in the good old days is countless.

 

There's this paranoid fantasy that she's going to take everyone's toys away, but that's not what she's doing here.

 

Yes. People are saying that sarkesian wants to take video gamer's toys away. And who are these people? You! And the others like you on this very thread. I certainly have never even hinted at this. Like so many things your side says, it's a nonsense statement crafted primarily to troll.

 

 

It's no threat to anyone, although the humongous overreaction to what she does certainly doesn't make the industry or any of us look any better. C'mon, threats of violence? Harassment? Rape threats? It's just a little out of hand here.

 

Another baseless accusation with no supporting evidence. Who in the games industry is making threats? Show your evidence!

 

Or failing that, just use your common sense. The gamer community is well established online with a number of open forums such as these here on Atari Age. Show us the serious threats here on AA.

 

In fact, show us rape threats here on AA, Digital Press, or any other forum where the primary focus of discussion is around gaming. And show us how the culture of rape on these forums meant that the person was not only not banned, but was embraced by the gamer community.