can it be this simple?

[Wally1]

maybe some of you wizards out there will know...

 

this article:

 

http://www.8bit-micro.com/coverstory.htm

 

explains that all is needed for an 8bit computer to access

the internet is a UNIX account and VT100 emulation in term software.

 

can someone help me understand/actually DO this?

 

thanks a million,

Wally

[kenjennings]

and then you need some way of making the physical connection... I expect there should be dial-up gateways that you would call using a modem, but since I don't do this with my Atari 8-bits I'm not really sure.

 

There's a way of making an ethernet connection with special hardware and software... though, that's another thing I don't do with 8-bits.

 

When you get down to it most web sites are geared toward web browsers using hundreds of megabytes of memory needed to handle the insane amount of scripting and images on modern web pages. An 8-bit experience is sure to be disappointing. The practical limit of an Atari 8-bit on the internet may be text-based email, and file downloads. It's probably a fun technical challenge to say you've done it.

[Wally1]

right

 

the article says there are about 50% remaining dialup ISPs still use UNIX.

 

some of them are free!

 

I would like to implement this, exactly, for the challenge and bragging rights

 

 

the Ethernet setup for A8 is the Dragoncart, BTW

Edited January 4, 2015 by Wally1

[kenjennings]

That article is about 10 years old now. I'd expect a lot of the dial-ups to be defunct.

[danwinslow]

It doesn't matter whether the ISP's use unix or not, just that :

a) you can get connected to the internet via some method

b) you have a terminal program that can use that connection and a place to connect to.

 

There's lots of ways to get connected to the internet. There's PC programs that can simulate a serial connection to the atari that really is a bridge to an ethernet connection. You can then use dialup-style terminal programs to connect to text mode stuff on the internet. Check out the APE software from atariMAX, and Aspeqt I think can do it too, plus others that I may not be aware of. You can use a serial/ethernet adaptor like a lantronics to directly connect to the internet. The Dragoncart is also an excellent way of getting connected, but other than a driver and a telnet program there isn't much software available, so you'd have to write your own.

[ricortes]

Been so long...

 

If you mean with no crutch like a local machine running slip that does the translation for you? You just have to look for an ISP that lets you have a dial up shell account. As Ken mentioned, these are few and far between nowadays but you can still find them.

 

You also need a modem that will do the minimum speed they allow, typically at least 1200 BAUD but I think I used to sneak into my old netmagic account at 300 BAUD.

 

What happens is completely analogous to logging into a BBS. You are presented with a account and password prompt. From there it varies a bit depending on what you want to do. As soon as you are logged in, your Atari works quite similar to a dumb terminal and you access/perform any function you want to do by running the program on the remote server. For instance if you want to run an editor like Pico, it actually runs on the UNIX<Linux typically> box and your Atari works like a dumb terminal. Ditto for just about any other function like telenet or ftp.

 

What was crazy good with those systems is the amount of access they give you to system. For instance, I could use my Atari to run an editor, write programs in C, and have the remote terminal compile and run them. Unfortunately that is also one of the things that was wrong with shell accounts too. People took/take advantage of the feature for nefarious means. Let's say your Atari is connected and bandwidth is bottle necked to 1200 BAUD. You could run stuff on the server with access to a T1 line and spam millions of people with make money fast scams.

 

My son hosed my netmagic account that way. Had a bunch of bots, which were specifically prohibited by the ISP, running 24/7. He gave out my password to all his friends so they could get free internet access on my dime too. One of the techs said when he checked my account, there were five people logged into it simultaneously and I was not one of them. PIA to have an 16 year old high school dropout drug addicts making fun of your personal emails. My son was a complete idiot back then.

 

The only thing you can't do is probably the biggest which is use a graphical browser for the www. All other functions like text editing, email, et cetera, are available. I think there was one oddity, something like after an ftp get<file> from some place like the umich archive you had to UUENCODE it or something to get it on the local machine with the capture function of your terminal program. All in all, if you are a unix weenie and the ISP lets you get away with murder, it gives you *MUCH* more power then a normal account.

[Bryan]

I remember back when home routers had RS-232 service ports. It would be cool to make firmware to use them as translators. Probably only worth it if you can easily get Linux hacked onto them.

[Kyle22]

Hook up a Lantronix UDS-10 to your 850 or P:R: Connection, and your router, then use any Atari term program. Here is ebay's listing. http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=lantronix%20uds-10&clk_rvr_id=759188139889&mfe=search

Edited January 4, 2015 by Kyle22

[thorfdbg]

It doesn't matter whether the ISP's use unix or not, just that :

a) you can get connected to the internet via some method

b) you have a terminal program that can use that connection and a place to connect to.

 

There's lots of ways to get connected to the internet. There's PC programs that can simulate a serial connection to the atari that really is a bridge to an ethernet connection. You can then use dialup-style terminal programs to connect to text mode stuff on the internet. Check out the APE software from atariMAX, and Aspeqt I think can do it too, plus others that I may not be aware of. You can use a serial/ethernet adaptor like a lantronics to directly connect to the internet. The Dragoncart is also an excellent way of getting connected, but other than a driver and a telnet program there isn't much software available, so you'd have to write your own.

 

But even then, I wonder what is on the other end. Most dialup-connections are dead now. SLIP and CSLIP connections are dead now either. TELNET is dead, too, due to secruity issues. If you want to log into a remote system nowadays, you most likely need a SSH (aka putty), and that's far to complex for the Atari to implement. So what remains is probably a SSH terminal on a PC, and a null-modem cable from there to the Atari. That's not what I would call "going into the internet", actually.

[danwinslow]

Well, when I was testing the dragoncart telnet, I found a bunch of places still running basic telnet. Mostly MUDs and message boards and stuff. It's true if you are looking for a place you can connect to with an atari and use a shell account to program, well, then those are indeed going to be few and far between. But really, if you did that via ISP to a shell account somewhere, or you did it to a home comp running linux through a null modem that's connected to the internet, what's the difference? I guess I don't know what you would call 'going into the internet', but if getting connected is what you want to start with, it's very doable.

[Wally1]

nyx.net still offers unix shells

 

I tried calling but it seems to be down for the moment..?

 

big thx to all you fellers for this responses thread

[ryanmercer]

People still have landlines?

[doctorclu]

Bragging rights... I understand that and well worth it. Check out this thread...

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/168660-intellivision-as-serial-terminal/page-2

 

Right here is where I got a 1979 Intellivision game system with computer module, dialed out to a BBS, telneted from there to a shell with a Lynx browser, logged into Atariage and posted a message on Atariage with my Intellivision. And here is that message:

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/168660-intellivision-as-serial-terminal/page-2?do=findComment&comment=2966367

 

Everything following that mesasge explains how it was done. The Prison Board BBS is still out there and you can telnet to other telnet locations (like other BBS's). The shell I used for that trick is currently down. However if you look hard enough you can find another site with a Lynx browser on it, and I am currently trying to talk the Prison Board into setting up such a service for retro enthusiasts.

 

In the meantime, check out the other Atari BBS's which I have as a link in my signature.

 

Also if you call the Prison Board BBS at 972-329-0781 or telnet://rdfig.net, get to the main menu, hit X for internet and A for Atari there is a list of Atari BBS's you can select to telnet out to from there.

 

Glad you have an interest in doing crazy telecommunications with your 8-bit Atari. It can be fun to be one of the few to get on the internet with a computer with less computing power than some calculators.

[Wally1]

thanks for your understanding, Doc

 

there is a webserver out there running on a Tandy model 100!

Edited January 6, 2015 by Wally1

[ricortes]

http://www.panix.com/

 

These guys still do it. Depending on how you want to do it, the $17.50/month account would let you dial in with an Atari using something like Bobterm and a SX212 modem or some flavor of 850 type serial interface with an after market modem. No intervention by anything else!

 

They apparently give you access to compilers. So just as a for instance, you want to use a Linux compiler to create a sio2Linux, you would login to your account, ftp the source code you need, and compile it on their server/your works space.

 

It's a huge amount of learning to use these accounts to their fullest. I mentioned Pico as a text editor but it goes much farther then that. Programs like Pine for email, ftp, et cetera. I think there is even a bit of web space available for that price so if you know HTML, you can actually program the web page on your Atari. Ancient history but that is how much of my work on my old web site was done.

[Wally1]

thanks Ricortes

[kogden]

This was the classic way most of us mortals accessed the internet before SLIP and PPP became popular. A "shell account". Dialing in isn't the best way anymore IMHO. I don't know many dialup shell providers these days.

 

There's a couple ways you can pull this off.

 

- "Internet Modem" using Atari 850 (or similar) and a serial->ethernet box like a Lantronix UDS or Precidia iPocket232 and then just "dial" IP addresses.

 

- "Internet Modem" using SIO2PC adapter and APE or SIO2OSX.

 

- A real modem dialing into a UNIX box connected to the internet as was common in the shell account days. You dial in and use telnet, gopher/WAIS, lynx, ftp, etc to get around on the Internet. Basically, you just get non-root command line access to a UNIX box.

 

- Null modem cable using Atari 850 or similar to a real UNIX box nearby. This could be a machine running MacOS X, Linux, BSD, etc. You simply tell the UNIX box it has a terminal on that serial port by editing /etc/ttys (on my BSD box at least) and either reboot or kill -HUP appropriate processes. Then you fire up term software on Atari and login.

 

No matter how you do it, you'll need term software like ICE-T and either an SIO2PC interface, SIO modem or RS232 interface.

[Wally1]

I am trying to understand what you wrote.

 

is a VT100 emulator absolutely necessary?

 

thanks

 

 

im also wondering if there exist any service like CompuServe or the source anymore

 

something like that

Edited January 9, 2015 by Wally1

[kogden]

I am trying to understand what you wrote.

 

is a VT100 emulator absolutely necessary?

 

thanks

 

 

im also wondering if there exist any service like CompuServe or the source anymore

 

something like that

 

You'll need some kind of terminal software at least. VT100 is just something that has broad support. VT52 would work too. I recommend ICE-T if you can run it as it has good 80-column text and ANSI support, with limited color even!

 

There might be a big dialup BBS somewhere in existence still but I have my doubts. I think CompuServe pretty much switched to being an ISP and content provider. I never bothered with CompuServe or GENIE, I stuck to local BBS's. I moved from that to a UNIX NetCom shell account.

 

The easiest thing to do is connect to a UNIX box and use internet-based resources or you can get a serial->ethernet adapter like the iPocket232 or Lantronix UDS and connect to BBS's over the internet using telnet with no UNIX system in between. Connecting to a UNIX box also gives you the benefit of things of FTP, a text-based web browser, e-mail, newsgroups, etc all from a command line session.

[Wally1]

thanks

[Wally1]

I am desperately looking for a dialup that will accept 300 baud

and has UNIX shell accounts. for free

 

anybody?

[Kyle22]

A quick Google of 300 baud dialup shell account doesn't give much hope. Unless you know someone at a university or some other facility that still provides this, I'm afraid you're out of luck.

 

There are quite a few telnet BBS's that are very good. I suggest you go that route with the Lantronix device. You need only your Atari hardware, the UDS-10, and an internet connected router. No PC, Mac or other stuff required.

 

Look here for free shell account accessible with telnet from your Atari through the 'net. http://www.arbornet.org/free_shell_accounts.php

[Wally1]

@doctorclu

 

that was a cool hack, by the way, with the Intellivision!

[thorfdbg]

I am trying to understand what you wrote.

is a VT100 emulator absolutely necessary?

 

im also wondering if there exist any service like CompuServe or the source anymore

 

A VT100 emulator is only required if you want to run something more interactive than a shell. VT100 offers additional control sequences to move the cursor, insert or remove lines, scroll and so on. Such sequences are required for line editing or running an editor in the console (such as vim or emacs). I don't think many dial-up services exist anymore, even less those offering 300baud access. I remember that my university turned off dial-in services like ten years ago because nobody was using it anymore.

[Wally1]

thank you thor