108 Stars Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I can definitely say it does work to some degree. The Chameleon name is nice, and with so many sites, even core gamer sites like Siliconera reporting this was a legitimate return of Coleco, I know of several people who are long time retro gamers that are interested. I had not visited this thread after the IndieGOGO campaign failed, can somebody fill me in why John Carlsen left the team? Any details on that? And what do you think, is it a major roadblock for the system now that he is gone and they probably cannot use the genius concept of power going into the system to get high res digital and analogue video out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
privateers69 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 At Games probably wouldn't revisit the idea of another Colecovision flashback if this sours the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InnovaX5 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 There is no dispute that the marketing tactic worked. Buying the name of a loved, established brand for a company that isn't known at all outside of their Magazine fanbase was a brilliant move for them. Deception and misinformation being published that this is the return of COLECO to the console market is infuriating to me. Combine that with the events of the indiegogo and its just disgusting to me. However, this is how business works. Just sad that after months and months of harping on how great the RETRO VGS name was and how its branding with the magazine would be so great because, Mike. Now just slips off into obscurity because he paid for the COLECO name and wants to reel in as many suckers as he can under that guise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Originally, this sounded like a nice little console idea. Now it's just a cluster. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 At Games probably wouldn't revisit the idea of another Colecovision flashback if this sours the name. That was my point. Even before this, there wouldn't have been more physical product from AtGames related to the ColecoVision properties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Fact: Coleco is pronounced CUH-LECK-UH. Tell your friends. That's not really how you pronounce it, you big dummy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 OK so I got my Nostalgia SHIT video pretty quick, Here is hoping Pat has another chat about it on his podcast ASAP too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 OK so I got my Nostalgia SHIT video pretty quick, Here is hoping Pat has another chat about it on his podcast ASAP too. Did you see the video that I linked to a few pages back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (Coleco is pronounced co-le-co)Only the fact that RVGS keeps quiet shows that they have learned A LOT from first try. Only nerds talk all the time, a hunk stays quiet.Just let the Coleco Chameleon magic sink in. Let see if this HYPE here moves on to kickstarter. Depending on what goal they are trying to achieve and what a unit costs will decide this; CC is not a normal console, so "under the rule of odd" 5 - 7 ok games, and the promise of more to come will do the job, imo.I for one, think the pad is great and will do the job, all the buttons and stuff are there so what more is needed? Good looks? nerds - be quiet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (Coleco is pronounced co-le-co) Oh, I thought it was pronounced COE-LEE-COE. OK, I'll start pronouncing it your way: CAH-LAY-CAH. I wonder if one of the games below ever made the most annoying sound in the world? youtube.com/watch?v=93u6POODKQY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93u6POODKQY Look at the guy on the right above, then look at the guy in the middle below. Notice anything? youtube.com/watch?v=S4AmLcBLZWY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4AmLcBLZWY 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Oh, I thought it was pronounced COE-LEE-COE. OK, I'll start pronouncing it your way: CAH-LAY-CAH. Just kidding, I have no clue since I'm not 'merican. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Whether it was intentional marketing deception or not, from a press coverage standpoint, it seems to have worked perfectly. Whether that buzz translates to anything tangible sales-wise remains to be seen. Certainly based on sales of the relatively recent ColecoVision Flashback, for instance, the brand association held far less value than I personally anticipated. But most of the publicity generated has been negative. Did 180+ pages of drama in this forum help the IndieGoGo? All the likes on Facebook? No. Not by a country mile. There is no dispute that the marketing tactic worked. Buying the name of a loved, established brand for a company that isn't known at all outside of their Magazine fanbase was a brilliant move for them. Deception and misinformation being published that this is the return of COLECO to the console market is infuriating to me. Combine that with the events of the indiegogo and its just disgusting to me. However, this is how business works. Just sad that after months and months of harping on how great the RETRO VGS name was and how its branding with the magazine would be so great because, Mike. Now just slips off into obscurity because he paid for the COLECO name and wants to reel in as many suckers as he can under that guise. The only people who will be duped by the name are uninformed consumers with nostalgia for the Coleco name. If this thing ever gets funded, it will be a steaming pile of bovine excrement that drops harder than a ton of bricks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Whether it was intentional marketing deception or not, from a press coverage standpoint, it seems to have worked perfectly. Whether that buzz translates to anything tangible sales-wise remains to be seen. Certainly based on sales of the relatively recent ColecoVision Flashback, for instance, the brand association held far less value than I personally anticipated. I gather that the ColecoVision Flashback sales were a disappointment then. Interesting. Actually, it isn't especially surprising to me that the Coleco name doesn't have the same marketing value today as Atari or Intellivision: the ColecoVision's entire reason for being was to "bring the arcade experience home," to the point where relatively few ColecoVision releases were exclusive to the system. Now that we have many other alternative ways of enjoying the arcade originals, who needs the ColecoVision any longer? It's a system that didn't really have an identity of its own, in the same way that the Atari 2600 and the Mattel Intellivision did. I'm sure that's the reason Mike and the RVGS team went with the Coleco name: the licensor isn't very selective about who they license it to, it was probably relatively cheap, and at this point, nobody else wanted it. It seems to be working for them, though, in the sense that it's giving the RVGS some name recognition and a veneer of credibility. It's also allowing news of the project to reach people who somehow missed out on the IndieGoGo debacle. Judging from the comments I've seen on YouTube and elsewhere, newcomers to the project are really under the impression that the original creators of the ColecoVision are bringing out a new console, and some of them seem genuinely surprised by the harsh reception it's receiving: "But the ColecoVision was cool, and now they're trying to bring it back! Why all the hate, guys???" If they only knew ... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InnovaX5 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 We can only hope, Stardust. I really hope that anti-digital people take off the nostalgia goggles when they see a $50 game for this pile of refuse, that's $25 from Indiebox and $16 or less on Steam. Where I don't think the Alienware Steam Machines will take off to the casual console gamer, I do think its a step in the right direction in digital-based console gaming. In a few years when the price point drops and the tech in those boxes are better, we'll see a rise in casual gamers who don't want to shell out $65 for a PS or Xbox game and an influx of Steam rise from the dawn of the mainstream consolized PC. I love physical copies just as much as the next old school gamer. I have an indiebox subscription. I buy homebrews and rom hacks from AtariAge, Flashback Entertainment, KHAN Games, Bishop Bros, NintendoAge forums and a few other places. I'll even pay for a physical copy of a game to put on my shelf if I enjoyed it enough. What I won't do though, is pay current or close to current retail price for a physical copy of a game. Shovel Knight and Duck Tales Remastered had $19.99 price tags on them at launch. Indiebox costs me $17.99 a month with the subplan I have. I'd be borderline insane to pay $50+ for a game that IS available digitally on Steam for $20 or less. I'd much rather buy a $50 boxed title from Atari Age that doesn't exist on a digital service. There is a big difference between supporting a homebrew developer and a really awesome website than supporting a greedy company who will be controlling all production of their games. Maybe Mike can bring back the snack time cabbage patch dolls to go along with the launch of the coleco chameleon. I just hope the people who do end up backing this console or buying it when it launches end up with something that isn't going to break in a year or so. I also hope they don't get a bag of false promises and never see anything for it. If Mike loved retro gaming, we'd know this things specs, we'd see it in action, and we'd have a list of titles being ported or developed for it. Mike doesn't give a damn about retro gaming. Mike loves mike and just wants a quick buck on a very stupid investment that he made on jaguar molding. Should have just sold the molds to Ryan Cross from Stone Age Gamer. At least he would have been using them to make some amazing Jaguar shells for people who actually care about retro gaming. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 But most of the publicity generated has been negative. Did 180+ pages of drama in this forum help the IndieGoGo? All the likes on Facebook? No. Not by a country mile.Speaking of Facebook, is there a way to "follow" the exploits of RetroVGS without pressing the "Like" button? By the way, someone is definitely deleting negative comments on the Facebook page again. Some of the negative comments have been even meaner than this thread. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Should have just sold the molds to Ryan Cross from Stone Age Gamer. At least he would have been using them to make some amazing Jaguar shells for people who actually care about retro gaming. And perhaps someone could have made a custom Raspberry-Pi to go in such Jaguar shells. As a low-key, minimalist endeavour, putting a Pi (or some other miniature motherboard) in a Jaguar shell is not such a bad idea, especially if the cartridge and controller ports are used as intended, in some fashion. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I gather that the ColecoVision Flashback sales were a disappointment then. Interesting. Actually, it isn't especially surprising to me that the Coleco name doesn't have the same marketing value today as Atari or Intellivision: the ColecoVision's entire reason for being was to "bring the arcade experience home," to the point where relatively few ColecoVision releases were exclusive to the system. Now that we have many other alternative ways of enjoying the arcade originals, who needs the ColecoVision any longer? I'm sure that's the reason Mike and the RVGS team went with the Coleco name: the licensor isn't very selective about who they license it to, it was probably relatively cheap, and at this point, nobody else wanted it. It seems to be working for them, though, in the sense that it's giving the RVGS some name recognition and a veneer of credibility. It's also allowing news of the project to reach people who somehow missed out on the IndieGoGo debacle. Judging from the comments I've seen on YouTube and elsewhere, newcomers to the project are really under the impression that the original creators of the ColecoVision are bringing out a new console, and some of them seem genuinely surprised by the harsh reception it's receiving: "But the ColecoVision was cool, and now they're trying to bring it back! Why all the hate, guys???" If only they knew ... Actually, just to clarify, from the AtGames standpoint, they'll be sticking with Atari- and Sega-branded physical products going forward, and experimenting with some new classic brands that they haven't as of yet released product around. So, without me stating it explicitly, I think it's easy enough to infer something about the potential viability of ANY non-Atari and Sega stuff with the general public. With that said, just because the AtGames use of these other products didn't necessarily resonate, it doesn't mean that no other products outside of the Atari and Sega stuff will resonate. Far from it. I do think it's a good barometer though of the differences between a true mass market product and a niche of a particular size, the latter of which may not be sustainable if your ambitions or financial considerations require a minimum number of sales. One would hope that the threshold for success for the RVGS/Chameleon would be much lower than a comparative mass market product, but who really knows at this point? And yes, I'm not surprised about the YouTube and other comments you mentioned. While the "real" info is available on forums like these, it's not like the "real" info is the mass market (there's that term again) stuff. It's the stuff that confuses today's Coleco with Coleco from the 80s that's the mass market stuff. Again, though, that still doesn't mean it will translate to sales. I somehow doubt that audience will jump on board with something like this if they haven't already dipped their toes into the retrogaming waters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 @Bill, so there will never be a Coleco or Intelivision Flasback II? That's sad... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InnovaX5 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 And perhaps someone could have made a custom Raspberry-Pi to go in such Jaguar shells. As a low-key, minimalist endeavour, putting a Pi (or some other miniature motherboard) in a Jaguar shell is not such a bad idea, especially if the cartridge and controller ports are used as intended, in some fashion. Very true. Just look at what a huge success the kickstarters for the Mini-Emu and the GameKid were. The demand is out there, for sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Actually, just to clarify, from the AtGames standpoint, they'll be sticking with Atari- and Sega-branded physical products going forward, and experimenting with some new classic brands that they haven't as of yet released product around. So, without me stating it explicitly, I think it's easy enough to infer something about the potential viability of ANY non-Atari and Sega stuff with the general public. With that said, just because the AtGames use of these other products didn't necessarily resonate, it doesn't mean that no other products outside of the Atari and Sega stuff will resonate. Far from it. I do think it's a good barometer though of the differences between a true mass market product and a niche of a particular size, the latter of which may not be sustainable if your ambitions or financial considerations require a minimum number of sales. One would hope that the threshold for success for the RVGS/Chameleon would be much lower than a comparative mass market product, but who really knows at this point? And yes, I'm not surprised about the YouTube and other comments you mentioned. While the "real" info is available on forums like these, it's not like the "real" info is the mass market (there's that term again) stuff. It's the stuff that confuses today's Coleco with Coleco from the 80s that's the mass market stuff. Again, though, that still doesn't mean it will translate to sales. I somehow doubt that audience will jump on board with something like this if they haven't already dipped their toes into the retrogaming waters. Understood. (I certainly wouldn't ask you to name specifics such as sales figures or potential follow-up products.) I bought both the ColecoVision and Intellivision Flashback units, and I'll be curious to see what AtGames has in mind for the future. I agree that there isn't a likely market for a console like the RVGS/Chameleon outside of those who already follow the retrogaming hobby, and that the people involved should be realistic about how narrow their potential audience really is. Unfortunately ... to put it mildly, Mike doesn't exactly strike me as the kind of guy who sets his sights low and takes a realistically conservative approach to anything, especially where Jaguar injection molds are involved. The number of people in that niche who are aware of his first botched abortion of a launch attempt, and will thus avoid this one like the plague, can only narrow the audience further. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Hierophant Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Atgames having two fewer dead-end console replicas to continually disappoint everyone hoping for improvements with the yearly update is something to celebrate this Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 By the way, someone is definitely deleting negative comments on the Facebook page again. Some of the negative comments have been even meaner than this thread. I'll believe that, given that some of the comments they've NOT deleted are less than enthusiastic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
108 Stars Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) Not everyone is hoping for improvement with every update. That is the point; ATGames has a different target audience than us. They deliver the quick retro fix for people who are not really into the hobby, but just want to revisit some childhood memories. That audience does not mind or even notice the imperfections. Their stuff is even sold in Europe, even though few real fans would buy a clone hardware that does not even offer RGB. RetroVGS will have to aim at a very different crowd. No nostalgia for Tiny Knight. And even the Coleco nostalgia is probably very limited in general audiences, let alone with no Colecovision games built in. Edited December 21, 2015 by 108 Stars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leods Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I find it funny how we completely lose perspective on things. Why was the colecovision a great System again? For the great ports of arcade games? Wow, I'd like to have a System able to do that. The Controller seems to be pretty crappy, and even the SNES that's the base Level of what we usually look for is a more powerful System. Damn, isn't the Atari 7800 more powerful? I just wrote the following comment on a YouTube Video, and it kinda took me away from this mindset I was in that considered that this could be a cool Thing if done properly: "Licensing doesn't matter. People can make a clone game if they want to, they don't Need to license anything. Or better yet, devs can make their own game, without imitating, much less licensing something from someone else. I actually don't understand why people want to see the same games being remade. Oniken, Shovel Kinght, Super Meat Boy, Cave Story. Are all great oldschool games that don't Imitate anything directly. The games are out there. We don't Need any of this crap. Shovel Knight even has a physical release, with high Quality clammshell case and a Color Manual. And I didn't have to install any patches for it. Also, I was able to make backups of the file, and even got a Steam code thrown in there. I didin't bother using the Steam code, but still a decent Bonus. Oh, but no cartridge. I could still copy the file to an SD Card. But that would be pointless. But it isn't enough to develop something no one actually Needs. They have to suck at the execution, lie in the press material and be dicks to the People who complain about the Problems. This whole Thing takes incompetence to a whole new Level, and now they want to drag COLECO through the mud to try and save the stupid idea they fucked up first time around. Seriously. Some People, me amongst them, are questioning Mike's mental health at this Point. I would certainy not be surprised if the guy is going through some serious issues." After reading my post if kinda struck me: This is a stupid idea to begin with. Even if well executed. I already have a gaming PC. I have 0 interest that any developers make games for this Retro garbage. I want devs to make games for Linux. Or at least for Windows 7. If they want to make a game to run on an Emulator I'm also fine with that. Seriously. People who even considered this in the first place are already Ultra hardcore unreasonable People who like cartridges and oldschool System so much they'll pay more for less for that cool factor of owning a plastic Shell. This is hardcore unreasonable and Mike shat on the couple dozen crazy old farts who were crazy enough to give a damn. (I'm not even one of them). I'm tired of pretendin this Thing was ever a Thing. Is it a cool idea? Yeah sure, sounds fun. It's just that Thing you laugh about, how cool it would be and go on with life, cause you just know it's actually stupid. I know you guys aready know all that from the start. But I wanted to give this a Chance so much, I lost perspective. Now I'm back into the real world. Cartridges are great for portables. Want to sell a game for a tabletop console or PC? Just use a damned optical disc. I'll Keep my fight: DRM free games for PC. Mike and his troop can try to pretend that's not fun. All they're doing is getting in the way of letting more People know how gaming is already in a great spot. We don't Need any of this garbage to Support developers and platforms. They're seriously not only wasting their time, but trying to convice People tha the best Options we have out there are bad, spreading misinformation. This thread here isn't toxic. It's being too nice, taking this as a joke. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Very true. Just look at what a huge success the kickstarters for the Mini-Emu and the GameKid were. The demand is out there, for sure. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/681890174/indiego-all-in-one-retro-game-console-raspberry-pi?ref=nav_search Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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