PlaysWithWolves Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) http://i.imgur.com/QDZWkKa.png This excerpt from the above screenshot (referring to kevtris' FPGA) is just surreal. Certainly a big focus of RVGS was always to put modern games on cartridges. But, Kennedy also has been promoting how important FPGA is to RVGS and how it's so much better than software emulation for months. Surreal: Edited to add the part about modern carts. Edited September 21, 2015 by PlaysWithWolves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algus Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 See now there are glimpses of vision in that post. "Ahh, I see that many people are making 8-bit/16-bit style retro games. What if we actually had a console that used cartridges to play them on?!" is a great question to ask. If his team could build a working proto that did just that and wasn't promising the moon, they might have something. I can't imagine it would be a huge product (really most people are going to download Shovel Knight) but it would definitely have a market in the hobbyist community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariTexas Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Just to give Mike some credit I do listen to his Retro Arcade Radio channel on Live365.com at night I sleep like a baby!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 This excerpt from the above screenshot (referring to kevtris' FPGA) is just surreal. Certainly a big focus of RVGS was always to put modern games on cartridges. But, Kennedy also has been promoting how important FPGA is to RVGS and how it's so much better than software emulation for months. Surreal: surreal.PNG Edited to add the part about modern carts. It's more back pedaling and double talk. Three weeks ago Mike announced the cartridge adapters for the Atari 2600, INTV, Colecovision and NES and they were the greatest thing in the world. Now that they're not working with him, Kevin's work can't compete and is a failed model. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PikoInteractive Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Another thing that I want to point out is that they failed to provide any written agreement to developers and potential team members/contractors (Kevtris). They could have easily provided an agreement to Kevtris that would pay him for a proto (1200 bucks plus assembling time), but if the campaign failed both parties would shake hands and part their ways. If the campaign would fund, then they move forward with a new agreement open to negotiations. Seems like they have never really done any contract work, or hired someone contract based. Heck you can even do stuff like that when buying a home (amendments and whatnot). This could have been so easy for everyone if they would have relaxed for a second instead of hyping it up and take care of official business, partnerships etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algus Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I actually won't question Mike's intentions. I don't think he is trying to scam anyone but he's a marketer (and honestly, a good one because the only thing separating Retro VGS from an idea peddler with a non-starter thread on a forum IS Mike's marketing) and this whole affair smacks of one of those Dilbert comic strips where the marketer is busying promising the moon to his client and Dilbert's stuck in his cubicle going "How the hell am I supposed to do that?! With my corbomite device?!" The whole thing's falling apart now because all they have is the idea, not an actual proto or even a clue as to how to build it. They say they have the expertise to build one but they can't even answer simple questions about technical specifications. It really is a shame because it is a cool idea. But so was the Phantom. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariTexas Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I guess their advertising on Craigslist now: https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/vgm/5231582589.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) FROM FACEBOOK COMMENTS: ..... Nico Nillo Most of this probably won't be necessary if Kevtris makes his own console. He's measuring public interest now: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/6 hours ago Hey! That's MEEEEEE!!!! also... *ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED!* my post was deleted by Mike! YAY!!! EDIT: HOLY SHIT!!! LOL!!!!! I'm banned from commenting on their Facebook page now!! Mike... you have made a powerful enemy. This is a declaration of war now. Edited September 21, 2015 by StopDrop&Retro 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giltygear Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 crybaby.jpg Hah. How is Mike supposed to respond to this question? With the truth. Like a man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I actually won't question Mike's intentions. I don't think he is trying to scam anyone but he's a marketer (and honestly, a good one because the only thing separating Retro VGS from an idea peddler with a non-starter thread on a forum IS Mike's marketing) and this whole affair smacks of one of those Dilbert comic strips where the marketer is busying promising the moon to his client and Dilbert's stuck in his cubicle going "How the hell am I supposed to do that?! With my corbomite device?!" The whole thing's falling apart now because all they have is the idea, not an actual proto or even a clue as to how to build it. They say they have the expertise to build one but they can't even answer simple questions about technical specifications. It really is a shame because it is a cool idea. But so was the Phantom. From an outsiders' point of view, it doesn't matter much whether they proceeded blindly or with deliberate dishonesty; the result is largely the same. If anything, they were dishonest with themselves, because they did not recognize their limitations and tried to go it alone before they had a plan, instead of teaming up with someone who could help them make their ideas a success, or at least rework them into something that would have had a greater chance of success. Instead, they were arrogant and belligerent and thought they had all the answers, blew off the feedback they received from more qualified people like Kevtris, and have treated their potential customers disgracefully throughout the campaign. The backlash they've received is nobody's fault except their own. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Not only that the Jaguar mold is jinxed, cursed, I took out my calculator, after seeing they 174 backers, how many units they would need to sell to reach the goal.Lets see:2 000 000 / 300 per unit = 6666,66666666666 units need to be backed ! ! ! ! !Satanic forces - dubble cursed!!!No wonder why I'm possessed by this story...Poor guys.And next to that, now we have this "Kevin guy", who almost has taken the role of the savior in this epic drama!!Just some big thoughts to a little crowdfunding among lots of them. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I guess their advertising on Craigslist now: https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/vgm/5231582589.html hehehehe 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 It's really 1950/299 = 6521 but whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thevnaguy Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I guess their advertising on Craigslist now: https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/vgm/5231582589.html its a good way to reach more people to help promote the campaign. nothing wrong with it, its marketing . and yes i am a backer . what will be will be, i have faith in the team which are good friends of mine, i want to see this succeed and will do all i can to assist them. either way it goes, my faith in them will remain unbroken. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariTexas Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) its a good way to reach more people to help promote the campaign. nothing wrong with it, its marketing . and yes i am a backer . what will be will be, i have faith in the team which are good friends of mine, i want to see this succeed and will do all i can to assist them. either way it goes, my faith in them will remain unbroken. No, nothing wrong with it Just noticed it when I was doing my usual search for prostitutes (I jest , I jest) Edited September 21, 2015 by BadHornet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 its a good way to reach more people to help promote the campaign. nothing wrong with it, its marketing . and yes i am a backer . what will be will be, i have faith in the team which are good friends of mine, i want to see this succeed and will do all i can to assist them. either way it goes, my faith in them will remain unbroken. If only they had another 6,521 friends like you. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGQuarterly Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) Well this often becomes the norm with retro gaming crowdfunding....200 project designers, developers, and business experts all think they can do a better job. I also don't understand how a back has been turned? Does not creating a device Atari Age approves of constitute "turning his back?" As for deleting the comment, again, I would have as well. How is Mike supposed to respond to this question? I think that your logic is a bit flawed here. First of all, a number of RetroVGS' detractors are in fact designers and developers, and their opinions should have been taken more seriously by Mike & Co. before things got to where they are now. Secondly, I don't have to be a chef to know that food tastes bad. As to how he's supposed to answer that question? I guess he isn't. He shouldn't have been in a position to have it asked in the first place. Mike spent a lot of years building up a lot of good will here at AtariAge. In the span of about 2 weeks he's blown through about 90% of it, and after this venture fails, it's going to taint anything else that he tries to do in the future. He turned his back on us because he incorrectly thought that there was this huge pool of causal retrogaming enthusiasts out there who were going to buy his product, so that he no longer needed the "hardcore" community to make that happen. And this is not the "norm" when it comes to retrogaming crowdfunding at all. The community just has a highly-tuned bullshit detector. He got his magazine funded through crowdfunding. The Blinking Light Win was funded, garnering double or triple what they had initially asked for. We as a community will enthusiastically get behind worthy projects, but we will also readily call "bullshit" when things don't add up. From an outsiders' point of view, it doesn't matter much whether they proceeded blindly or with deliberate dishonesty; the result is largely the same. If anything, they were dishonest with themselves, because they did not recognize their limitations and tried to go it alone before they had a plan, instead of teaming up with someone who could help them make their ideas a success, or at least rework them into something that would have had a greater chance of success. Instead, they were arrogant and belligerent and thought they had all the answers, blew off the feedback they received from more qualified people like Kevtris, and have treated their potential customers disgracefully throughout the campaign. The backlash they've received is nobody's fault except their own. This is an excellent post. Anyone who calls Mike a "scammer" or "snake-oil salesman" obviously hasn't been a long-time member of this community. Mike is a good guy. I don't know if the mild success that he's achieved thus far with his other ventures has gone to his head, because he is certainly not conducting himself in a wise manner in this situation. But to call his honesty into question is foolishly over-the-line. Edited September 21, 2015 by Jibbajaba 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenegg Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Why is this thread still going? Everyone knows at this point, that there is no hardware, why keep piling on them? I do not know the third gentlemen, but I know Mike and Steve and they are very nice people. This thread needs to be visible through to the end of their IGG campaign. It's important that people know what their money is going towards. I don't think the RetroVGS team is out to scam anyone, but their ignorance will cause the project to fail and backers (should the IGG campaign somehow be successful) will lose their money. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg2600 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I think that your logic is a bit flawed here. First of all, a number of RetroVGS' detractors are in fact designers and developers, and their opinions should have been taken more seriously by Mike & Co. before things got to where they are now. Secondly, I don't have to be a chef to know that food tastes bad. As to how he's supposed to answer that question? I guess he isn't. He shouldn't have been in a position to have it asked in the first place. Mike spent a lot of years building up a lot of good will here at AtariAge. In the span of about 2 weeks he's blown through about 90% of it, and after this venture fails, it's going to taint anything else that he tries to do in the future. He turned his back on us because he incorrectly thought that there was this huge pool of causal retrogaming enthusiasts out there who were going to buy his product, so that he no longer needed the "hardcore" community to make that happen. And this is not the "norm" when it comes to retrogaming crowdfunding at all. The community just has a highly-tuned bullshit detector. He got his magazine funded through crowdfunding. The Blinking Light Win was funded, garnering double or triple what they had initially asked for. We as a community will enthusiastically get behind worthy projects, but we will also readily call "bullshit" when things don't add up. I see your point. My position has been that it's been difficult to separate the true expert opinions with those who are being trollish. You say Mike has built up good will, but there's still a contingent who never liked him. When RETRO magazine was offered, there was a vocal minority to bashed it, and said it would never see the light of day. Also, I wasn't saying that RVGS are ignoring experts, my point was more that people were criticizing without knowing the underlying facts. Clearly KevTris and RVGS are offering fairly different takes on what led to their breakup, so right there who do you believe before knocking one or the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGQuarterly Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) Also, I wasn't saying that RVGS are ignoring experts, my point was more that people were criticizing without knowing the underlying facts. Clearly KevTris and RVGS are offering fairly different takes on what led to their breakup, so right there who do you believe before knocking one or the other? Only they know what really happened, and it isn't for me to take sides on various underlying issues with the RetroVGS because who the hell am I? All I am is a potential customer who is keeping his wallet in his pocket based on the totality of the circumstances surrounding the RetroVGS. But for me it's sad to see the apparent downfall of a guy who I think was a positive presence in the community. Edit: But he is doing that to himself while blaming it on external forces "infesting" his project with "negativity". And as has already been stated, it seems like he is already setting the stage for the blame game that's most certainly going to happen in the not-too-distant future. If he's acting like this on the third day of his campaign when he is still trying to attract thousands of backers, what's his behavior going to be like when he no longer has anything to gain? Edited September 21, 2015 by Jibbajaba 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazball Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 @thevnaguy - friend of the RVGS team or not, the hardware guy didn't know that classic consoles output 240p/60. That's Retro 101 and he failed! It makes me really worry, and I'll be keeping my wallet in my pocket as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGQuarterly Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I don't really care that the guy didn't know that retro consoles output 240p. I care that he thought that the RetroVGS was going to output 480i through HDMI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Retro Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 They really should have: Started with a Prototype Launched on a weekday on Kickstarter Pulled the plug after 24 hours of the Indiegogo and started at bullet point #1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg2600 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Only they know what really happened, and it isn't for me to take sides on various underlying issues with the RetroVGS because who the hell am I? All I am is a potential customer who is keeping his wallet in his pocket based on the totality of the circumstances surrounding the RetroVGS. But for me it's sad to see the apparent downfall of a guy who I think was a positive presence in the community. Edit: But he is doing that to himself while blaming it on external forces "infesting" his project with "negativity". And as has already been stated, it seems like he is already setting the stage for the blame game that's most certainly going to happen in the not-too-distant future. If he's acting like this on the third day of his campaign when he is still trying to attract thousands of backers, what's his behavior going to be like when he no longer has anything to gain? I've agreed all along, RVGS public statements have been horrendous. Oh well, this won't get 1/2 funded, and will I guess disappear into the ethos. All I care is that RETRO magazine keeps coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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