Intellivisionaries Episode 17 Is Up!

[+cmart604]

 

Oh the shame... I've had the job of editing that down on my plate since CGE. I'm sorry folks! Other stuff has put that to the back-burner, plus there were comments made that were later asked to be "off the record" so I have to be careful.

 

As for Portland, I'm talking with my wife about the possibility of going. I've already been to one show (CORGS) and will be going to another here in Pittsburgh this summer (ReplayFX). From her perspective, enough might be enough. But I'm trying... I won't be able to have an Intellivisionaries booth (I don't think???) if I go, so it would just be hanging out and maybe recording some audio for the show.

Do it! You know you want to.

[+cmart604]

There was one woman, but she was just there to hold the camera.

Haha! Of course.

[+nurmix]

 

Joe Z is at the top of my list there! I'd also love to hear from Dave Akers. You can add David from Intelligentvision as someone who has a rich history with the system as well that I would love to hear stories from.

 

We want Joe to finish the LTO Flash before we bother him.

 

Dave Akers was interviewed in episode 8 (Sea Battle), of course he's always welcome on the show again.

 

David Harley has been asked, as has Groovy Bee. It's an open offer. That's all I can really say on that.

 

And as we've mentioned many times, if anyone here in the forums wants to be on the show, send a PM to me or to Rick and we'll set something up.

Edited June 18, 2015 by nurmix

[+nurmix]

 

I'd be happy to sit and yak from a "collector turned wannabe programmer" angle. It'd tax your editing skills as I tend to ramble on, especially without the body cues to know when people are bored of listening. You know how some people are very eloquent online, but when you get them in person they pretty much clam up? Not here. What you see in my posts is what you get in person, for better or worse

 

Cool. Send me a PM and we'll set it up.

[+nurmix]

I vote for the following people to be interviewed:

 

Freewheel (where is the weed?)

Tarzilla (tell us about all your games bro!)

Cmart (bacon and trannies, whats not to love)

Soulbuster (is selling games fun?)

Joe Z (next left turn only game?)

Voltron (where in the world voltron)

Catsfolly (dave akers) (have you interviewed him yet?)

 

Sounds good to me.

 

And yes, as I mentioned - Dave Akers was on episode 8 (Sea Battle).

[soporj]

Interview whoever thought Boulder Dash for the Intellivision was going to be a big money-maker.

[+DZ-Jay]

I have a question about this episode. In the interview with Kimo Yap, he alluded to some development tools that sounded different from what we've heard from other BSR's. For instance, he mentioned creating a C compiler and a linker for cross-compiling games from the VAX machine onto the Intellivision.

 

Then later, when told that all source codes were given to INTV Corp. and were used to create updated versions of the game, he seemed surprise and commented that it would be strange if they had access to the original tool-chain and the hardware for the cross-compilers for which the games were originally written.

 

I am confused. I thought that all games were written in CP-1610 Assembly Language using the assembler and linker created by APh and that INTV Corp. was able to use their own assembler to re-build the original games.

 

Could you guys get more information on this, please? I'm intrigued!

 

-dZ.

[+nurmix]

I have a question about this episode. In the interview with Kimo Yap, he alluded to some development tools that sounded different from what we've heard from other BSR's. For instance, he mentioned creating a C compiler and a linker for cross-compiling games from the VAX machine onto the Intellivision.

 

Then later, when told that all source codes were given to INTV Corp. and were used to create updated versions of the game, he seemed surprise and commented that it would be strange if they had access to the original tool-chain and the hardware for the cross-compilers for which the games were originally written.

 

I am confused. I thought that all games were written in CP-1610 Assembly Language using the assembler and linker created by APh and that INTV Corp. was able to use their own assembler to re-build the original games.

 

Could you guys get more information on this, please? I'm intrigued!

 

-dZ.

 

Hmm... I will contact Kimo and see if he can provide any more details on that.

[+intvsteve]

 

Hmm... I will contact Kimo and see if he can provide any more details on that.

Cross-linked neurons in the memory circuits?

[+DZ-Jay]

Cross-linked neurons in the memory circuits?

That's what I'm thinking: bad memory chip.

[+Lathe26]

From the interviews, I recall them saying that the C compiler was being developed but was not completed and never used for any games.

[+nurmix]

Ask and ye shall receive!

 

Here's Kimo's response:

 

I doubt I would have said a C compiler. Perhaps I mis-spoke (I'd have to go back and listen to exactly the part he's referring to to figure my exact wording.

 

He is correct that it was in the assembler. Also, VAX-en didn't exist in 1978 (or just barely hit the market if so). The development platform was a PDP-11 (LSI-11) I think running RT-11.

 

A pdp-11 runing RSX-11 might be considered a pre-VAX as VMS was a descendent of RSX-11, but I think they were running RT. At that point in time I may not have recognized the difference, though, but definitely a PDP-11, not a Vax.

 

As far as future development, I might have been presumptious. It is possible they bought the toolset from APh or did their own. They were originally cross-assembled (might be a more accurate term than cross-compile, I guess) on the RT-11 and downloaded to the game.

 

Mattel would have had to buy all the hardware, too to do it the same way, which is what I doubted they did, but I don't know for sure. If this doesn't clarify, let me know what else I'm being unclear about.

 

-kby

[freewheel]

nurmix, I hope you give the guy a huge high 5 for responding to stuff like this. It's super cool information that is literally priceless.

[+nurmix]

nurmix, I hope you give the guy a huge high 5 for responding to stuff like this. It's super cool information that is literally priceless.

 

Indeed I do.

[+DZ-Jay]

Great! Thanks for following up, nurmix, and thanks to Mr. Yap for taking the time to entertain our questions.

 

Ask and ye shall receive!

Here's Kimo's response:

I doubt I would have said a C compiler. Perhaps I mis-spoke (I'd have to go back and listen to exactly the part he's referring to to figure my exact wording.

He is correct that it was in the assembler. Also, VAX-en didn't exist in 1978 (or just barely hit the market if so). The development platform was a PDP-11 (LSI-11) I think running RT-11.

A pdp-11 runing RSX-11 might be considered a pre-VAX as VMS was a descendent of RSX-11, but I think they were running RT. At that point in time I may not have recognized the difference, though, but definitely a PDP-11, not a Vax.

As far as future development, I might have been presumptious. It is possible they bought the toolset from APh or did their own. They were originally cross-assembled (might be a more accurate term than cross-compile, I guess) on the RT-11 and downloaded to the game.

Mattel would have had to buy all the hardware, too to do it the same way, which is what I doubted they did, but I don't know for sure. If this doesn't clarify, let me know what else I'm being unclear about.

-kby

 

That makes a lot of sense, and coincides with what we have heard before from others. (By the way, PDP-11 is what I've heard before as well, I don't know why I said VAX ).

 

As for future development, what I understand from Mr. Robinson's and others' comments about the INTV Corp.'s development environment, they didn't have APh's tools, and were forced to create their own. This wouldn't have impaired their development, since the source code they had was indeed CP-1610 Assembly Language, plus they were already familiar with the instruction set. (I think it was Dave Warhol that said he wrote the assembler for their later games.)

 

It is also my understanding that the source codes they got from Mattel included the macro libraries for the various EXEC data structures and symbols, so they didn't have to reverse-engineer anything at that point. (Although Dave Warhol commented in another episode that they created their own "EXEC" version in software that ran at 60 Hz, which they called "REX" for "Revised EXEC" or something like that.)

 

This is all very fascinating and I can't get enough of this! I love hearing about the tools and processes used during that time. In certain aspects, what APh used in 1978 was much more advanced than what we have today. For instance, they used a linker after assembling, which allowed them the flexibility of re-using assembled/compiled object code, among other things. Plus, most homebrew games nowadays have to roll out their own custom kernels and frameworks to take the place of what the EXEC used to do for free.

 

Loverly!

 

-dZ.

Edited September 26, 2015 by DZ-Jay

[+nurmix]

Some additional followup from Kimo, which makes sense, since he wouldn't have known what happened at Mattel and INTV Corp. after he left APh:

 

I was thinking after I wrote that that I suppose Mattel could have bought the source code (if they didn't get it as part of the deal anyway; that I wouldn't know) and perhaps at a later date they had their own development system to write the programs directly on the GC1600 (or whatever it was). That I could believe. But I doubt they had the same system APh used, which was derived/adapted from other stuff APh did before the Intellevision days. But that's pretty much speculation on my part.

 

-kby

Edited September 26, 2015 by nurmix

[First Spear]

Nurmix, you are smokin my head with your tenacity on this stuff. This is great! Thank you!

 

The only problem I have with this information is how it can/should be associated with the Podcast. Could the shownotes be updated with this in some way, so the data is preserved "forever"?

 

I think this is also a great reason to have the shows transcribed somehow, this is searchable gold.

 

 

Some additional followup from Kimo, which makes sense, since he wouldn't have known what happened at Mattel and INTV Corp. after he left APh:

 

I was thinking after I wrote that that I suppose Mattel could have bought the source code (if they didn't get it as part of the deal anyway; that I wouldn't know) and perhaps at a later date they had their own development system to write the programs directly on the GC1600 (or whatever it was). That I could believe. But I doubt they had the same system APh used, which was derived/adapted from other stuff APh did before the Intellevision days. But that's pretty much speculation on my part.

 

-kby

[+nurmix]

Nurmix, you are smokin my head with your tenacity on this stuff. This is great! Thank you!

 

The only problem I have with this information is how it can/should be associated with the Podcast. Could the shownotes be updated with this in some way, so the data is preserved "forever"?

 

I think this is also a great reason to have the shows transcribed somehow, this is searchable gold.

 

 

 

I intend to include Kimo Yap's updates in the next episode (along with Dz's questions) ... which will be episode 22, as episode 21 is ALREADY DONE! ...and will be live very soon.

 

 

I still like the transcription idea, but I simply don't have the time to do it, and I know it can get expensive to have it done, as the guys on ANTIC The Atari 8-bit Podcast have talked about it.

 

Now if someone wants to volunteer...

[+DZ-Jay]

Some additional followup from Kimo, which makes sense, since he wouldn't have known what happened at Mattel and INTV Corp. after he left APh:

 

I was thinking after I wrote that that I suppose Mattel could have bought the source code (if they didn't get it as part of the deal anyway; that I wouldn't know) and perhaps at a later date they had their own development system to write the programs directly on the GC1600 (or whatever it was). That I could believe. But I doubt they had the same system APh used, which was derived/adapted from other stuff APh did before the Intellevision days. But that's pretty much speculation on my part.

 

-kby

 

I believe that's exactly what happened. They didn't have the same system APh used, of course, but they did build their own. It would be interesting to ask Messrs. Robinson and Warhol about the differences in the development environments and tools.

 

-dZ.

[+nurmix]

 

I believe that's exactly what happened. They didn't have the same system APh used, of course, but they did build their own. It would be interesting to ask Messrs. Robinson and Warhol about the differences in the development environments and tools.

 

-dZ.

Consider it a future show segment.