TPR Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 ^ There is a HUGE difference between "pointing out flaws" and over-exaggerating something to fit into your agenda. End of the day we are all entitled to our own opinion and I respect that. Your opinion is the game has flaws and isn't worth $60. My opinion is you're a terrible video game reviewer and it doesn't surprise me at all you have virtually no audience after being on YouTube for more than three years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 ^ There is a HUGE difference between "pointing out flaws" and over-exaggerating something to fit into your agenda. End of the day we are all entitled to our own opinion and I respect that. Your opinion is the game has flaws and isn't worth $60. My opinion is you're a terrible video game reviewer and it doesn't surprise me at all you have virtually no audience after being on YouTube for more than three years. You are just hung up on this "over-exaggerating" crap. You don't know what you're talking about. My channel started out as a promo channel for Retrocade Magazine years ago. I only started regularly doing videos last fall. And I have fun doing it. And I'm going to keep on doing it for as long as I want to. Like I said, the majority don't like it when you pan a home brew. It's view by the majority as sacrilege and you prove that true. I'm honest with rating games and I'm fine with that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPR Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 the majority don't like it when you pan a home brew. It's view by the majority as sacrilege and you prove that true. This right here is your "agenda." You are purposely panning the game to prove a point. at times I struggled with the controls to connect with a ladder, or to move off a ladder into a horizontal space. I also pointed out the ladder issue in my original review, but the difference between your review and mine, which actually covers the same issue, is that I reported on it fairly and without being agenda-driven. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slab0meat Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Personally, I think that what has been called bugs, makes the games a little harder. Therefore it will take more time to finish the game Is that so bad? I don't think so! I still haven't had a chance to try it out, but keep reading this thread. When I got to this, I was dumbfounded. After comments and explanations about complexties, 4 and 8 way stuff, etc etc, now it's merely a "positive" that makes the games harder? That's top-notch spinning, there. I still eagerly await some playtime with Bagman, and thanks as always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 This right here is your "agenda." You are purposely panning the game to prove a point. I'm panning the game because it's flawed. It doesn't go any deeper than that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPR Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 I'm panning the game because it's flawed. It doesn't go any deeper than that. Keep telling yourself that. Your video and comments in this thread speak otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Keep telling yourself that. Your video and comments in this thread speak otherwise. I disagree. U mad? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 If VectorGamer feels the game is flawed, that is his opinion. Everyone has opinions, and others' opinions will often differ from yours. Let's please get back to discussing the game itself. Thank you, ..Al 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thevnaguy Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Well, I like it 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcks73 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I remember playing this game a while back now... was not sure until I saw a few vids... Not sure on what console or computer I might have played it but I remember enjoying it alot! Maybe was it the C-64? Anyhow, I would love to grab this title!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcks73 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 ^ There is a HUGE difference between "pointing out flaws" and over-exaggerating something to fit into your agenda. End of the day we are all entitled to our own opinion and I respect that. Your opinion is the game has flaws and isn't worth $60. My opinion is you're a terrible video game reviewer and it doesn't surprise me at all you have virtually no audience after being on YouTube for more than three years. No need to be rude and to start about YouTube views and stuff, he's just expressing his view on games and it's all ok. In fact his vids are really cool considering he's doing them for the fun of it with his kids. We should all be entitled to our opinion without having anyone bashing on them. Oh well, to each his own but let's keep it cool amongst our little community my friends! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaynz Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Beside, we always release rom files of our games on our website so people can enjoy our games on a Atarimax SD cart How do you order or download a rom from your site? I've been there many times and never, ever, have seen such an option. :S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPR Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 No need to be rude and to start about YouTube views and stuff, he's just expressing his view on games and it's all ok. In fact his vids are really cool considering he's doing them for the fun of it with his kids. We should all be entitled to our opinion without having anyone bashing on them. Oh well, to each his own but let's keep it cool amongst our little community my friends! I thought we were moving on per Albert's request? If VectorGamer feels the game is flawed, that is his opinion. Everyone has opinions, and others' opinions will often differ from yours. Let's please get back to discussing the game itself.Thank you,..Al 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcks73 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Right on! Go Coleco Vision crazy!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfraMan Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Has anyone else run into "invisible walls" on occasion, or is my CV just being weird? I've had it happen a few times, but most frequently on the very first screen, in the tunnel that slopes down and to the left. If I'm carrying a money bag and running to the left (back down the slope towards the ladder), I'll sometimes hit a point near the bottom of the slope where I just can't go any further left. If I go back to the right for a bit and then left again a few times, I can eventually get past it, but it's weird and annoying. The game definitely has some quirks, but not all of them work against you. Due to the oversized hitboxes, you can drop a money bag, walk forward about half an inch or so, and then pick it back up again even though you've moved pretty far away from it. Doing this repeatedly lets you transport money bags way faster than you normally should be able to, and I feel no guilt whatsoever for abusing the crap out of this. A very fun conversion overall, though I'll admit to uttering my share of curses towards the ladders from time to time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phattyboombatty Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Getting stuck on ladders repeatedly, Bagman dies when there's a bad guy "in the neighborhood" and grabbing a nearby handle when trying to pick up a bag. Getting back to the facts (and attempting to avoid cultivating bitterness), I'll take the risk and back up some of VectorGamer's criticism. He makes a valid point, and I'm willing to corroborate his concerns (using only the quote above at this time). I'll admit it: I was thrilled that the game arrived super-timely (and I want to point out again that CollectorVision has made huge strides in shipping expectations). I "tore open" the box and popped in the game cart with great enthusiasm. Blown away by the spot-on graphics and its resemblance to the arcade game, I gave it a whirl, but quickly became disenchanted with the game. I played 3 times, and on the last time, I became frustrated. Really frustrated. So much so that I had visions of making a video and pointing out the flaws (to be honest, I swapped Pitfall II Arcade and TwinBee into the cart slot to get my gaming fix that day and blow off the frustration). But I exercised patience (and trust), and I remained quiet, and I had a look at this thread to see what other opinions would emerge. I give props to VectorGamer for showing some balls about this because he's being blunt honest. If you thought he was a little harsh, then say so, but please don't hide behind false sincerity and cite such and such about "opinions". He's attempting to point out some facts. And I'm pretty sure that we can all agree on them. Cut to the crash and screenshot needed (I'll provide one later if need be): My biggest frustration was due to the inability to go down the far, top-right ladder on screen 3. Tried, couldn't. Repositioned myself, couldn't. Repositioned myself again, couldn't, Again, couldn't. Micro-maneuver with the joystick to get pixels aligned, couldn't. Gendarme caught up with me after about 45 seconds and I'm dead. Every time. Short list of buggy behavior that I noticed: Bag gets dropped on Gendarme, Gendarme turns into blue Player 2 dead Bagman. Picked up money bag to get onto elevator at screen 2. Quickly released money bag, but instead got caught inside of dirt as elevator car continued down. Hey cool, I'm walking through dirt! Some weirdness with going toward screen 3 with wheelbarrow. Walked into screen 3, quickly walked bag into screen 2, and collided with another object (can't remember if it was Gendarme). Now I'm falling down right side of screen in a persistent state, falling, falling through the dirt! Getting on and off ladders is pretty tricky, to the point where if you're not precise, you'll be caught by the Gendarme. It may take several tries to align to the correct collision point (i.e. it's not forgiving). Money bag does not slide down slopes in screen 1. Bagman's arms "flash" or "flicker" instead of move smoothly from sprite-to-sprite when climbing. Music does not loop, but plays once only (this may be a "feature" to save memory, I don't know). Music does not seem optimized to the CV sound chip. I'm really trying to be objective here, and I got over my frustration once I noticed VectorGamer's post because he transparently pointed out some real issues. I felt kind of closeted about my reaction to the game, as I didn't want to piss anyone off. I know it's hard for most of us to provide negative feedback/criticism of any releases because we have so much appreciation for the revival of our beloved video game system. We have respect and admiration for those who've carried the torch, learned the programming language, and taken the time to carefully recreate special packaging and instruction manuals that look just like what we'd expect back in 1984. We love the big three, which are CollectorVision, Team Pixelboy, and Opcode Games, who've honestly and dedicatedly applied mega-professionalism to this craft and repeatedly delivered again and again. They've listened to our crap and our starry-eyed dreams, and they've delivered. Thank you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Getting back to the facts (and attempting to avoid cultivating bitterness), I'll take the risk and back up some of VectorGamer's criticism. He makes a valid point, and I'm willing to corroborate his concerns (using only the quote above at this time). I'll admit it: I was thrilled that the game arrived super-timely (and I want to point out again that CollectorVision has made huge strides in shipping expectations). I "tore open" the box and popped in the game cart with great enthusiasm. Blown away by the spot-on graphics and its resemblance to the arcade game, I gave it a whirl, but quickly became disenchanted with the game. I played 3 times, and on the last time, I became frustrated. Really frustrated. So much so that I had visions of making a video and pointing out the flaws (to be honest, I swapped Pitfall II Arcade and TwinBee into the cart slot to get my gaming fix that day and blow off the frustration). But I exercised patience (and trust), and I remained quiet, and I had a look at this thread to see what other opinions would emerge. I give props to VectorGamer for showing some balls about this because he's being blunt honest. If you thought he was a little harsh, then say so, but please don't hide behind false sincerity and cite such and such about "opinions". He's attempting to point out some facts. And I'm pretty sure that we can all agree on them. Cut to the crash and screenshot needed (I'll provide one later if need be): My biggest frustration was due to the inability to go down the far, top-right ladder on screen 3. Tried, couldn't. Repositioned myself, couldn't. Repositioned myself again, couldn't, Again, couldn't. Micro-maneuver with the joystick to get pixels aligned, couldn't. Gendarme caught up with me after about 45 seconds and I'm dead. Every time. Short list of buggy behavior that I noticed: Bag gets dropped on Gendarme, Gendarme turns into blue Player 2 dead Bagman. Picked up money bag to get onto elevator at screen 2. Quickly released money bag, but instead got caught inside of dirt as elevator car continued down. Hey cool, I'm walking through dirt! Some weirdness with going toward screen 3 with wheelbarrow. Walked into screen 3, quickly walked bag into screen 2, and collided with another object (can't remember if it was Gendarme). Now I'm falling down right side of screen in a persistent state, falling, falling through the dirt! Getting on and off ladders is pretty tricky, to the point where if you're not precise, you'll be caught by the Gendarme. It may take several tries to align to the correct collision point (i.e. it's not forgiving). Money bag does not slide down slopes in screen 1. Bagman's arms "flash" or "flicker" instead of move smoothly from sprite-to-sprite when climbing. Music does not loop, but plays once only (this may be a "feature" to save memory, I don't know). Music does not seem optimized to the CV sound chip. I'm really trying to be objective here, and I got over my frustration once I noticed VectorGamer's post because he transparently pointed out some real issues. I felt kind of closeted about my reaction to the game, as I didn't want to piss anyone off. I know it's hard for most of us to provide negative feedback/criticism of any releases because we have so much appreciation for the revival of our beloved video game system. We have respect and admiration for those who've carried the torch, learned the programming language, and taken the time to carefully recreate special packaging and instruction manuals that look just like what we'd expect back in 1984. We love the big three, which are CollectorVision, Team Pixelboy, and Opcode Games, who've honestly and dedicatedly applied mega-professionalism to this craft and repeatedly delivered again and again. They've listened to our crap and our starry-eyed dreams, and they've delivered. Thank you. Thanks for your feedbacks, I appreciate you did it in a good manner I take note of everything said in this thread Don't get me wrong, I like to hear criticisms even if those are bad This's how we learn through our mistakes 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+grips03 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Has anyone else run into "invisible walls" on occasion, or is my CV just being weird? I've had it happen a few times, but most frequently on the very first screen, in the tunnel that slopes down and to the left. If I'm carrying a money bag and running to the left (back down the slope towards the ladder), I'll sometimes hit a point near the bottom of the slope where I just can't go any further left. If I go back to the right for a bit and then left again a few times, I can eventually get past it, but it's weird and annoying. The game definitely has some quirks, but not all of them work against you. Due to the oversized hitboxes, you can drop a money bag, walk forward about half an inch or so, and then pick it back up again even though you've moved pretty far away from it. Doing this repeatedly lets you transport money bags way faster than you normally should be able to, and I feel no guilt whatsoever for abusing the crap out of this. A very fun conversion overall, though I'll admit to uttering my share of curses towards the ladders from time to time. I have run into the Invisible wall there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIAD Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Well, I guess it's not good to be the first one to point out bugs or flaws in a game. You didn't deserve the abuse, VectorGamer, that was heaped upon you as I could feel your passion and excitement over receiving Bagman and then the big disappointment when one issue after another reared their ugly heads. I also hope that all of this does not discourage alekmaul from programming future ColecoVision games because obviously the talent and skill is there, but the final beta testing needs to be more carefully performed and/or that feedback of the testers paid attention to and corrections made. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPR Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 Since apparently we're not respecting Albert's wishes to move on, I'll chime in.... I give props to VectorGamer for showing some balls about this because he's being blunt honest. If you thought he was a little harsh, then say so, but please don't hide behind false sincerity and cite such and such about "opinions". He's attempting to point out some facts. And I'm pretty sure that we can all agree on them. I'm pretty sure I said that I thought he was being harsh and going about presenting his gripes the wrong way. I even pointed out some of the same issues with the game in my initial review, but I didn't need to do it in such a manner where I would be over-exaggerating them. But then again, it's clearly just a different style of presenting something. And my "opinion" is that I don't particularly think that's helpful or constructive. But again, that is my "opinion" and we're all supposed to be allowed to express them, right? Short list of buggy behavior that I noticed: Bag gets dropped on Gendarme, Gendarme turns into blue Player 2 dead Bagman. Picked up money bag to get onto elevator at screen 2. Quickly released money bag, but instead got caught inside of dirt as elevator car continued down. Hey cool, I'm walking through dirt! Some weirdness with going toward screen 3 with wheelbarrow. Walked into screen 3, quickly walked bag into screen 2, and collided with another object (can't remember if it was Gendarme). Now I'm falling down right side of screen in a persistent state, falling, falling through the dirt! Getting on and off ladders is pretty tricky, to the point where if you're not precise, you'll be caught by the Gendarme. It may take several tries to align to the correct collision point (i.e. it's not forgiving). Money bag does not slide down slopes in screen 1. Bagman's arms "flash" or "flicker" instead of move smoothly from sprite-to-sprite when climbing. Music does not loop, but plays once only (this may be a "feature" to save memory, I don't know). Music does not seem optimized to the CV sound chip. I feel like some of these "bugs" you listed are less about being bugs in the game and more about restrictions developing on a Colecovision. Things like sprite flicker, swapping out the dead character sprite, sounds not looping, or bags not going down the slope I chalk up to changes that had to be made in order to fit the game into a 32k cart, which I feel there is a LOT of game in that small space. But at least you were able to present your issues in a very respectable, constructive manner, and as a reader I appreciate that. I dunno, I guess part of me is still so new to this that I'm not jaded enough to be overly complaining about games still in development for a system I thought was dead 30 years ago. Up until a few months ago, I had no idea there were still legit looking boxed copies of arcade ports that I wish I would have had when I was 12. Bagman is not perfect, but neither were a lot of the arcade conversions of 1983 either. And had this exact game come out in 1983, I think a lot of people today would have it on our "top arcade conversion" lists of that period. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Since apparently we're not respecting Albert's wishes to move on, I'll chime in.... I'm fine with discussions of reviews as long as it's done respectfully. ..Al 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaynz Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Okay, I'll throw my hat into the right. I'll write up a few professional-grade (though not properly edited) reviews of the Collectorvision games that I can get a hold of, including this one, and see just what is what. No dog in the fight, no money to worry about, no biases to push forward. Sound fair to everyone? (Okay, now that I've said that, I realize that Bagman itself isn't available as a rom just yet... I would trade a review for a rom, of course... but that may seem a little unfairly greedy of me. ) Edited June 3, 2015 by Jaynz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariBrian Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Maybe the programmer could fix the collision detection and not being able to climb down that ladder and see about making climbing ladders easier . And any other gameplay issues like getting stuck and invisible walls and if any other gameplay issues pop up . Then send cart only back to Toby and since most people will buy atleast one game from the next batch of games . And if so he could just add it in with them instead of of shipping it back by itself when they ship a couple months from now which wouldn't cost anything extra just to slip one cart in the box with any of the cib's . I would imagine only a small handful of people would send their cart in anyways . To me that sounds like a good resolution perhaps . But ... the next batch of games may need to best retested before being called complete . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColecoDan Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 TPR, I think since you are so new that might be why you are also not understanding the frustration. We have been here so long and have gotten so many awesome games from CollectorVision that I think we have gotten spoiled by the high end products that they have produced. Those high end products cause everyone's expectations of perfection to be very high. That very high expectation gets crushed when you see so many bugs or problems in one game. It may seem like picking on people but I think it is just frustration from playing and from expecting such perfection. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPR Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 ^ Thanks Dan. It's kind of one of the reasons why I just posted my "Homebrew expectations" thread. Would love to get some feedback on that as I think it could be really helpful to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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