Marius Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Hello, I use an SIO2USB with my laptop and APE. Mostly for OG hardware preservation. While I do use my drives sparingly to keep them running, I don't want to wear them out. Also don't want to put some of the harder to find disk games in jeopardy. My game collection is up there, so many times I am playing .atr files of games I own. (except that excellent Dr Mario port..I play that a lot.) Also nice to make "save disks" on my pc instead of having to continually find obsolete media. As far as "portability", huh? The laptop is the most portable part of my atari setups. I have an xegs with a keyboard extender hooked to a 27inch trinitron for couch gaming (except eastern front...damn start button on the console) The 800 is hooked to a commodore 1702 on my desk next to my desktop PC. I use that for basic tinkering and plan to write a book on it. Just seems more "atmospheric". I started outlining, and there is a definite appeal to typing on that keyboard than the steelseries. What portability do you need? Well I move from one place to another a lot. On both locations I have atari 8bit, but I don't want to carry a laptop all the time. And needing a laptop to be my diskdrive/harddisk sucks in my opinion. Yes it has benefits. But I do not want to need another computer system to use my atari. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yjzep Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Well I move from one place to another a lot. On both locations I have atari 8bit, but I don't want to carry a laptop all the time. And needing a laptop to be my diskdrive/harddisk sucks in my opinion. Yes it has benefits. But I do not want to need another computer system to use my atari. Fair enough. I also get a warm fuzzy feeling when I close the door on the 810 and flip the switch. I don't go anywhere, my basement is my sanctuary where my kids don't go and mess with my stuff. I have had working disks develop boot errors suddenly and don't want to risk it. Also haven't bought any blank floppies in quantity yet. Is there a good source? (I think best has them not sure) I have always been "retro" I like to drive older cars, prefer older games, listen to vinyl etc.. So I guess I see the "taint" that modern silicon could bring to the experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 If you can get it working then the "Ultimate1MB" & "SIDE2" combination is the best floppy replacement in my opinion. However that is a big if. It seems to come down to the individual CF cards. Do not buy the 'SanDisk Ultra' one Lotharek recommends. This is my opinion after a lot of extremely tedious experimentation and frustration. Instead use 'Transcend' units, specifically the 'Industrial' sub brand as this will allow you to define and access two primary partitions from within Windows formatted to FAT16 and FAT32 for 'FATFS.SYS' and 'SIDELoader' respectively. Most other brands - in particular 'SanDisk' - are set up in firmware as 'Removable' which means Windows will only allow you to access the first visible primary partition, which is a pain given 'FATFS.SYS' currently only reads 'FAT16', but it is nice to have long filenames for the 'SIDELoader'. The 'Industrial' units are defined as 'Fixed'. If you use Unix however, this does not matter. Again. I have spent maybe four weeks struggling with 'SIDELoader'. At one point last weekend I even thought it was down to a problem with my 800XL. It wasn't. It is the CF card. Your own experience may vary as much as mine did. 'Transcend' may not work for you while 'SanDisk' may work. However all my problems went away when I paid extra for a 'Transcend Industrial'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 It's not only the CF card. It's definitely also a SIDE2 issue. I have CF cards here that do fail on SIDE2, but on IDE+ and MyIDE 2 I have zero CF cards failing. And I have.... let met count.... over 40 CF cards to test, different brands, sizes etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 It's not only the CF card. It's definitely also a SIDE2 issue. I have CF cards here that do fail on SIDE2, but on IDE+ and MyIDE 2 I have zero CF cards failing. And I have.... let met count.... over 40 CF cards to test, different brands, sizes etc. It's hard to argue with that. It would seem SIDE2 could use a bit more debugging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Amen to that my friends, amen to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Odd, since I use Sandisk Ultra cards here exclusively with three different SIDE2 carts on half a dozen different machines and I've never had an issue with any of them, using the loader, SIDE soft-driver or PBI BIOS. Were it the crap-shoot it's being portrayed as, I'd expect at least some issues. In any case, IDE Plus 2.0 is different from SIDE2 in at least one important respect: the former will work with SD/CF and SD/IDE adapters which I have tried, while the latter will not. I have no idea why, but presumably this has some impact on card compatibility. Drivers are bug-free, so it's certainly a hardware issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Odd, since I use Sandisk Ultra cards here exclusively with three different SIDE2 carts on half a dozen different machines and I've never had an issue with any of them, using the loader, SIDE soft-driver or PBI BIOS. Were it the crap-shoot it's being portrayed as, I'd expect at least some issues. In any case, IDE Plus 2.0 is different from SIDE2 in at least one important respect: the former will work with SD/CF and SD/IDE adapters which I have tried, while the latter will not. I have no idea why, but presumably this has some impact on card compatibility. Drivers are bug-free, so it's certainly a hardware issue. The SanDisk doesn't work with my otherwise stable Rev1/A motherboard 800XL - it does work with my unstable Rev3/C unit. Last weekend I thought this signalled a problem with the older board. I believed that to the extent that I moved all my mods to the newer board before I discovered it's genuine and far more serious problems... And then moved them all back! However the next day I discovered the Transcend unit works with both. I cannot physically botch the "SIDE2" installation yet this same behaviour occurs with both it in *.XEX-only mode and the - slightly more botchable - "Ultimate1MB" in *.ATR+*.XEX mode. It must be a concatenation of factors - not a crapshoot. Its highly possible say, that Lotharek recently got in a new supply of SanDisks which while packed the same and visually the same are not the same under the bonnet. Couple this to slight differences in the characteristics of the older and newer motherboard and that would easily explain why I and some of the other chaps who bought their hardware recently are having problems. It may even be something as unpredictable as the "SIDE2" being affected by the variable wear on the motherboard's electrolytic capacitors or other components which the passing years and the disparate storage conditions in our various homes can each effect differently. I genuinely am glad you have not encountered it yourself though. Weird, semi-intermittant failures like this are always a bugger to track down!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Could it be an (slightly) incorrect installation issue, and therefore shows up for some people but others? I'm sure that's been gone over... but... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Could it be an (slightly) incorrect installation issue, and therefore shows up for some people but others? I'm sure that's been gone over... but... Its a totally fair point fujidude and it could well be the case - when I am doing the installation at least!!! Humour aside though, I am all but 100% sure I have it wired in properly. The chips are simple to remove and replace and I soldered the four wires directly to the numbered legs of the 6502, uncomfortable as that made me initially. I think if I had the wrong legs or, say the chip-leads socketed the wrong way around then nothing would work - probably spectacularly!!! As it is, in my case it is only the SanDisk CF that doesn't work. The Transcend is perfect - which again I honestly don't think would be the case if I had ham-fisted the soldering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Pics or it didn't happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Pics or it didn't happen. Will do!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Pics or it didn't happen. Lol that's what mrs. fjc said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 IDE interfaces (including CF cards) use edge triggering to transfer data. This makes them susceptible to noise on the motherboard. One m/b will be under threshold and the next will be above it - one works, one does not. Some CF cards work, some do not on these systems. Bob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Thanks to Prowizard I think the solution to the FAT16 problem, at least, is far more mundane than supposed: the XEX loader not recognizing the rather arcane MBR partition IDs that FDISK places in the partition table. I'll change FDISK so that it uses ID $0E for FAT16 and release it tomorrow: this will hopefully fix some issues. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Thanks to Prowizard I think the solution to the FAT16 problem, at least, is far more mundane than supposed: the XEX loader not recognizing the rather arcane MBR partition IDs that FDISK places in the partition table. I'll change FDISK so that it uses ID $0E for FAT16 and release it tomorrow: this will hopefully fix some issues. Excellent FJC!!! This is real progress!!! 'Rannish Partition Manager' under DOS allows you very granular control of partitioning - more so than any windows tool I have used. With a USB driver this can be used to format SD cards as well. I will try it with the SanDisk and make sure the partition ID is exactly as you specify. That might finally get the card working. In regards the underlying question of floppy replacement, with "Ultimate1MB" and "SIDE2" - when working! - you can simulate floppy drives by mounting an ATR with the 'SIDELoader'. Is there any way to make empty *.ATR's inside SDX - or at least without taking the CF card somewhere else - so you can then mount them and write to them as if they were actual disks? Currently if I wanted to do that I would have to make the ATR in windows, copy it to the FAT32 partition and only then be able to mount and use on the A8. If not then the ability to make *.ATR images would be an extremely useful thing for candle'o'sin and you to add to 'SIDELoader'/PBI BIOS combination. With that I think you really wouldn't need any other floppy replacement at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 IDE interfaces (including CF cards) use edge triggering to transfer data. This makes them susceptible to noise on the motherboard. One m/b will be under threshold and the next will be above it - one works, one does not. Some CF cards work, some do not on these systems. Bob Without knowing the electronic specifics you mention bob1200xl this is exactly the kind of situation i was clumsily trying to imagine and describe. I think this may well be what is happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Is there any way to make empty *.ATR's inside SDX - or at least without taking the CF card somewhere else - so you can then mount them and write to them as if they were actual disks? Have a look on the SDX or IDE Plus toolkit disk: I'm sure there's a command line tool for making ATRs which may be compatible with SIDE/Ultimate. Regarding additional features: there's a software update in the pipeline which will take everything you like about this hardware combo and double it. Stay tuned. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Have a look on the SDX or IDE Plus toolkit disk: I'm sure there's a command line tool for making ATRs which may be compatible with SIDE/Ultimate. Regarding additional features: there's a software update in the pipeline which will take everything you like about this hardware combo and double it. Stay tuned. Although I suddenly realize the flaw in my logic; making the *.ATR is only half the problem. You have to then get them on to the FAT32 partition - from inside SDX - so 'SIDELoader' can see and mount them... 'FATFS.SYS' not only doesn't work with anything except FAT16, but is read-only anyway. Bugger!!! Nonetheless, I am actually more excited about your putative update than I was the 'Elite - Dangerous' patch the other day!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Good point: IDE Plus mounts ATRs inside SDFS partitions, so those tools aren't much use in this situation. Here's test version of FDISK which should write out partition type $0E for FAT16: fdisk.xex Haven't had time to try initialising a disk with it yet, but if it works I'll bump the version number and add it to the toolkit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Good point: IDE Plus mounts ATRs inside SDFS partitions, so those tools aren't much use in this situation. Here's test version of FDISK which should write out partition type $0E for FAT16: fdisk.xex Haven't had time to try initialising a disk with it yet, but if it works I'll bump the version number and add it to the toolkit. When I try to update the SDX rom with the new FDisk - after deleting the old one - I am told '*.com file too large'. Should I delete the FDisk *.ovl files as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 When I try to update the SDX rom with the new FDisk - after deleting the old one - I am told '*.com file too large'. Should I delete the FDisk *.ovl files as well? You can not update FDISK that way. The FDISK on CAR is a small file, using overlay files. This is due to limitations of file size on CAR: But isn't the FDISK on the SIDE2 distribution the latest version of FDISK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 You can not update FDISK that way. The FDISK on CAR is a small file, using overlay files. This is due to limitations of file size on CAR: That explains it. But isn't the FDISK on the SIDE2 distribution the latest version of FDISK? It was the latest until FJC released the new *.XEX three posts up!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Yes: once I hear the XEX fixed the issue, I'll propagate this build to the ROMs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 OH perfect. I missed that post. Going to try that tonight... when I have time aargh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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