The "I'm surprised that XXXX wasn't at E3" thread.

[HuckleCat]

Awesome show (so far). Shenmue 3, FF7 Remake, backwards compatibility for the XOne, new Starfox. Good stuff all around.

 

But what about the other stuff?

 

I'm really surprised nothing was shown or mentioned about the next Gran Turismo game. I was also hoping to see more of that PS4 game "Wild" that was shown last year.

 

What about you guys?

[Lost Dragon]

I'm left assuming talk months back of Sony doing a PS4 Forbidden Siren game, sadly were just talk.

 

I'd still love Sony to annouce new installments of G-Police and Colony wars on PS4, the online play aspects for both are immense, but sadly doubt i'll ever see anything new on either :-(

 

And looks like internet speculation of MS buying the 80% complete then abandoned Silent Hills from Konami for a massive E3 reveal were just utter speculation as well then?.

[Metal Jesus]

I'm really disappointed Sony didn't even attempt to get people excited about the Vita. The handheld is still lightyears more powerful than the 3DS and they could try to bring around some new Triple-AAA games... but it appears they don't even care. Very disappointing.

[godsey1]

I would love to have seen a Red Dead Redemption 2, another Dead Island and maybe a new Left For Dead. I will keep my hopes up for any one of these. As far as I know none of these were announced.

 

Tony

[goldenegg]

I've been hoping for more news around Quantum Break and The Witness. There's been nothing new on either front.

[Austin]

I'm surprised Nintendo didn't bring more to the table than they did. Their showcase seemed somewhat underwhelming.

[Lost Dragon]

@Metal Jesus:It has been pretty horrific watching Sony pretty much abandon the Vita to it's fate.

 

Rather than adress the key issue that initally put a lot of us off purchasing one (those damn memory card prices) i've seen them basically say Triple-A games were no longer on the cards (and so much for the Vita Borderlands deal then), instead it'd be the device you streamed PS3/PS4 content to....and/or used for Indie games.

 

 

The use as a 2nd screen in PS3/PS4 games seemed to get as much support as the PS3/PSP link up had.

 

Crying shame as device had a lot of potential, but then so did PS3 Eyetoy, Move, PSP-link-up the tech where 2 players/1 3D TV Killzone was shown etc etc.

[Lost Dragon]

Grumble...suppose i oughta go with the expected here:

 

 

What? No Half Life 3 annoucement?

 

 

 

 

:-)

[Bill Loguidice]

I'm surprised Nintendo didn't bring more to the table than they did. Their showcase seemed somewhat underwhelming.

 

It's obvious they're starting to redirect resources to the NX. I suspect E3 2016 will be dedicated the NX for a holiday 2016 release, and both the Wii U and 3DS will start to be sunsetted.

[HuckleCat]

I'm really disappointed Sony didn't even attempt to get people excited about the Vita. The handheld is still lightyears more powerful than the 3DS and they could try to bring around some new Triple-AAA games... but it appears they don't even care. Very disappointing.

 

I think that the Vita is being phased out at Sony. I cant help but feel that the "higher-ups" there want out of the handheld market altogether. They really haven't aggressively tried to gather 3rd party support outside of a few titles, and like Lost Dragon said, the memory cards are crazy expensive. In fact, I was considering getting one of the PlayStation TV boxes just for Persona 4 Golden, but at this point the memory cards are more expensive than that console. This makes no sense.

 

 

 

It's obvious they're starting to redirect resources to the NX. I suspect E3 2016 will be dedicated the NX for a holiday 2016 release, and both the Wii U and 3DS will start to be sunsetted.

 

Possibly, however I'd be really surprised if it came out any earlier than Holiday 2017.

 

The "new" 3DS is less than a year old in the US and Europe, and the Wii U came out in 2012. It's not even 3 years old. If they release a new console after 4 years they run the risk of freaking out 3rd parties, the same way that Atari in the 80s, and then Sega in the 90s did.

 

If anything I think that next E3 Nintendo will instead just announce that they are working on a new console, and that this time around it will be comparable in horsepower to what MS and Sony will be releasing.

[Major Havoc 2049]

I wish Microsoft would have shown some more of Quantum Break, Phantom Dust and Scalebound.

 

Even though they weren't at E3 and Sega is almost dead these days, it would have been nice if they would have FINALLY announced a North American release date for Phantasy Star Online 2.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Major Havoc 2049

[Lost Dragon]

I'm with HuckleCat regarding the Vita.

 

Sadly i feel Sony really have put it out to pasture here and it'll be the last attempt they make to try and capture a slice of the mobile console market.

 

Vita will sadly go down as yet another 'brave experiment' from Sony and people like ourselves, will in future look back it and debate for hours what went wrong and why.

 

Crying shame as things could of been so much better for the Vita.

[xenomorpher]

I'm with HuckleCat regarding the Vita.

 

Sadly i feel Sony really have put it out to pasture here and it'll be the last attempt they make to try and capture a slice of the mobile console market.

 

Vita will sadly go down as yet another 'brave experiment' from Sony and people like ourselves, will in future look back it and debate for hours what went wrong and why.

 

Crying shame as things could of been so much better for the Vita.

It's very sad since they finally developed a portable that can play 3D games comfortably with two analog nubs. I bought mine to play the Earth Defense Force game on the go and it's so natural to play even with my big hands. I use mine every once in awhile to remote play my PS4, and it works great. If the data system wasn't so backwards today I'm sure it would make it an even bigger selling point since not every place has wifi. I've been playing Murasaki Baby and it's a shame we won't likely see more off the wall unique games like it on the system.

Edited June 18, 2015 by xenomorpher

[Lost Dragon]

For a while it seemed as if Sony had really started to learn from the PSP and were doing their best to deliver what the consumer and developer wanted with the Vita:

The hardware seemed fantastic, easy enough to code for and Sony also seemed very keen to be the indie developers friend, so i expected good mix of Indie and in-house stuff.

But even in the early days, there were still the warning signs of Sony failing to grasp where it was going wrong.

Consumers could'nt of been more vocal about memory card pricing, if they tried, yet Sony refused to budge...

Giving key franchise games like COD and Resistance to the seemingly most unsuitable developers just had me rolling my eyes in disbelief....

Annoucing games before deals had even been signed (i said Borderlands earlier, WTF i was thinking there i've no idea, i actually meant Vita Bioshock..which is like...where?).

[Bill Loguidice]

The "new" 3DS is less than a year old in the US and Europe, and the Wii U came out in 2012. It's not even 3 years old. If they release a new console after 4 years they run the risk of freaking out 3rd parties, the same way that Atari in the 80s, and then Sega in the 90s did.

 

If anything I think that next E3 Nintendo will instead just announce that they are working on a new console, and that this time around it will be comparable in horsepower to what MS and Sony will be releasing.

 

"Freaking out" what third parties? Nintendo has no notable third parties left supporting them, which is part of the Wii U's problem. The timeline doesn't matter, it's the continued viability of both the Wii U and 3DS/New 3DS. If the NX is indeed a portable that also functions as a console, that solves both problems in one shot for Nintendo, i.e., a stillborn console and an aging handheld. It would also be a way to woo back third party developers by having one platform to rally around.

[Bill Loguidice]

I'm just rehashing many of the thoughts I recently posted here: http://armchairarcade.com/perspectives/2015/06/18/some-post-e3-2015-thoughts-on-sony-microsoft-and-nintendo/ but in terms of the Vita, I'd argue there wasn't much Sony could do. The market just doesn't have room for a truly successful dedicated gaming handheld outside of Japan, the only territory that prefers them at this point to consoles. When the DS and PSP had their respective successes (the former blockbuster, the latter modest), the market was very different, with no smartphones or tablets to compete against.

 

As expected, the 3DS did well, but also as expected, nowhere near as well as its predecessor in light of a very different market. Even with a slight refresh with the New 3DS, it's only a matter of time before any renewed momentum/interest is lost again. The days of seeing kids walking around with GameBoy's/DS's are long gone; now you're more likely to see them using smartphones (either their own or their parent's) or tablets, as you are a 3DS/2DS.

 

In any case, I agree the Vita is an amazingly well built handheld with a generous library and many quality games (although I admit that even though I play it daily it's mostly for MLB 15). No one is buying it, though, and obviously Sony will only continue to promote it/support it as a streaming device until it no longer becomes financially viable to produce (I think PlayStation TV is getting there sooner rather than later).

 

At the time, I thought Sony should have made the Vita an Android handheld that also played games, but instead they chose to make it a proprietary gaming device that could also do tablet-like things. I think it's clear that the forseeable future for gaming handhelds belongs to Android-based devices (with or without physical controls onboard) that are also perfectly functional tablets. That's why I think Nintendo is going to release the NX at the end of next year, because they flat out need to establish a product category that will appeal to console fans that have crossed over to their competitors (and try and get third parties back) as well as mobile fans who no longer care about dedicated gaming devices. However, I do think it's incredibly stubborn of them (not surprising from Nintendo) to decide not to support Android, which would make many things for them easier, including producing an OS that was zippy for once.

[Lost Dragon]

Whilst it would'nt of saved it, as like Bill has said, the market was very different to when PSP lainched and even that struggled in it's own way....it might of helped Vita's fortunes if Sony had done something to deal with the proverbial Elephant in the room which was the Memory Card price issue.

Plus, not shutting down the very studios that were producing your flagship games (Zipper Int.etc) might of gone some way to give Vita more exclusive, designed for handheld play games.

Also giving a key Playstation franchise (Resistance) to what appeared to be the cheapest developer option, did'nt exactly inspire confidence, nor did how COD turned out after Sony hyped it.

[HuckleCat]

 

"Freaking out" what third parties? Nintendo has no notable third parties left supporting them, which is part of the Wii U's problem.

 

For the Wii U, yes. For the 3DS, no.

 

The timeline doesn't matter, it's the continued viability of both the Wii U and 3DS/New 3DS. If the NX is indeed a portable that also functions as a console, that solves both problems in one shot for Nintendo, i.e., a stillborn console and an aging handheld. It would also be a way to woo back third party developers by having one platform to rally around.

 

Once again, while this may be the case in terms of the Wii U, you're flat out wrong in the case of the New 3DS. You do know that the New 3DS is more than a cosmetic overhaul, right? It's a new system under the hood as well. It's barely been out half a year and has already sold about 5 million units. They're not going to screw with that this soon.

 

As far as "wooing back" third parties, unless it's OS is similar enough to the other 2 consoles to make porting easy, (The PS4 is "sort of" running Linux, the XOne is a crazy Windows 10) third parties will more than likely ignore the "hiccup" console and wait for the other 2. (See: Dreamcast)

 

Then again, Iwata, the president of Nintendo, has repeatedly said that they no longer view Sony or Microsoft as competition. Nintendo is actually making a profit on these systems that you seem to think are dead. Making a cheaper console and riding on their own first party licenses is actually working for them.

 

I'm just rehashing many of the thoughts I recently posted here: http://armchairarcade.com/perspectives/2015/06/18/some-post-e3-2015-thoughts-on-sony-microsoft-and-nintendo/ but in terms of the Vita, I'd argue there wasn't much Sony could do. The market just doesn't have room for a truly successful dedicated gaming handheld outside of Japan, the only territory that prefers them at this point to consoles. When the DS and PSP had their respective successes (the former blockbuster, the latter modest), the market was very different, with no smartphones or tablets to compete against.

 

I think it's clear that the forseeable future for gaming handhelds belongs to Android-based devices (with or without physical controls onboard) that are also perfectly functional tablets. That's why I think Nintendo is going to release the NX at the end of next year, because they flat out need to establish a product category that will appeal to console fans that have crossed over to their competitors (and try and get third parties back) as well as mobile fans who no longer care about dedicated gaming devices.

 

This is right though. The mobile gaming market has changed, but I think Nintendo may be seeing a bigger picture than we're assuming is there.

 

See, Iwata has also recently told Nintendo's investors that the NX "is a new concept, and is not a replacement for the 3DS or Wii U". Sure, he could be lying, but he could also be hinting at a different path altogether. I agree with you that the only competition Nintendo has on the handheld market is with smartphones, which got me thinking -

 

What if the Nintendo NX is a phone?

 

Think about it. They have the brand power. They have the funds to at least try it out. Since both the "usual" android phone and the iPhone are both suffering from a case of the "same but faster", now is a prefect time to try this move. Introducing a phone turned Apple from a multi-million dollar powerhouse to a multi-billion dollar empire.

 

Everyone under the age of 30 would line up to buy a Nintendo phone. Shit, once my contract expires on my Samsung, I'd at least consider getting one. Nintendo fans are the only other fans that seem as rabid as Apple fans. Imagine if they released a phone that came with a Nintendo-branded "Fitbit" that worked with it. The rumors were there that Nintendo was considering a health-oriented device.

 

This could be a pretty big deal.

[Bill Loguidice]

 

This is right though. The mobile gaming market has changed, but I think Nintendo may be seeing a bigger picture than we're assuming is there.

 

See, Iwata has also recently told Nintendo's investors that the NX "is a new concept, and is not a replacement for the 3DS or Wii U". Sure, he could be lying, but he could also be hinting at a different path altogether. I agree with you that the only competition Nintendo has on the handheld market is with smartphones, which got me thinking -

 

What if the Nintendo NX is a phone?

 

Think about it. They have the brand power. They have the funds to at least try it out. Since both the "usual" android phone and the iPhone are both suffering from a case of the "same but faster", now is a prefect time to try this move. Introducing a phone turned Apple from a multi-million dollar powerhouse to a multi-billion dollar empire.

 

Everyone under the age of 30 would line up to buy a Nintendo phone. Shit, once my contract expires on my Samsung, I'd at least consider getting one. Nintendo fans are the only other fans that seem as rabid as Apple fans. Imagine if they released a phone that came with a Nintendo-branded "Fitbit" that worked with it. The rumors were there that Nintendo was considering a health-oriented device.

 

This could be a pretty big deal.

 

We'll just disagree then on our respective assessments of the situation, but one thing I can guarantee is that Nintendo will never ever come out with a phone. Besides a litany of other reasons, including a virtually impenetrable duopoly, Nintendo has never proven particularly skillful in creating a decent OS or the type of hardware manufacturing it would take to make a proper phone, i.e., build quality. Their strongpoint is creating games, which is why the long awaited move into mobile for others' platforms is so smart (I talked about that previously).

 

In any case, I'm all for "what ifs?" but if you think for a second anyone would buy a Nintendo-branded phone over an Android- or iOS-based device, there are some Jaguar topics here on AtariAge I think you'd enjoy participating in.

 

In any case, we're both on record. Let's see how it plays out at E3 2016.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Bill Loguidice

[HuckleCat]

True, these are what-ifs, and nobody really knows what will happen, we will see.

 

I can guarantee is that Nintendo will never ever come out with a phone.

 

It's unlikely, but I wouldn't say never.

 

 

In any case, I'm all for "what ifs?" but if you think for a second anyone would buy a Nintendo-branded phone over an Android- or iOS-based device, there are some Jaguar topics here on AtariAge I think you'd enjoy participating in.

 

 

Hopefully in one of those topics somebody had the sense to point out that neither Android or iOS is even ten years old yet. (Android 2006, iOS 2007) Both Google and Apple took a chance that people would be willing to try something new - Google with a well made OS, and Apple with a strong brand name - and it paid off. Nintendo has at least one of those things.

 

Not everybody fears change.

[Bill Loguidice]

If you guys really think there would be people lining up - or even considering - to give up their Android- or iOS-based phones for a proprietary Nintendo phone, I just don't know what else there is to say. So Nintendo is having trouble standing out in the cut-throat videogame business these days, so they're going to enter the even more competitive smartphone market and instead upend that? I'd love to know how a company who can't make a snappy OS, has trouble with online services, and has thus far only produced devices with lower end build quality can possibly compete in such a market, but again, feel free to think that this is even remotely an option.

 

Also, Hucklecat, iOS came out in 2007 and Android in 2008. iPhone was first, followed by the HTC Dream on the Android side. The time on the market is irrelevant at this point. It's like people saying Facebook can be supplanted, because look at what happened with MySpace. The problem is, the MySpace era was completely different than the Facebook era and a lot of things will have to start happening before Facebook even starts to slip a little versus another competitor. It's the same thing with iOS and Android. Nintendo is simply not the company to do it, but of course they're not even going to try, so the point is moot.

 

The only genuine questions that remain are will the NX be a hybrid device replacing both the Wii U and 3DS, and when will it be released.

[HuckleCat]

If you guys really think there would be people lining up - or even considering - to give up their Android- or iOS-based phones for a proprietary Nintendo phone, I just don't know what else there is to say.

 

 

You're underestimating Nintendo's grasp on the youth of today. I'm old too, don't take it too hard. Just go with the flow.

 

 

Also, Hucklecat, iOS came out in 2007 and Android in 2008. iPhone was first, followed by the HTC Dream on the Android side.

 

So Android is only 6 years old. You realize this correction helps my argument more than yours, right?

 

 

The time on the market is irrelevant at this point. It's like people saying Facebook can be supplanted, because look at what happened with MySpace. The problem is, the MySpace era was completely different than the Facebook era and a lot of things will have to start happening before Facebook even starts to slip a little versus another competitor. It's the same thing with iOS and Android. Nintendo is simply not the company to do it, but of course they're not even going to try, so the point is moot.

 

 

It is relevant. It shows that the things that you claim will never se supplanted, like iOS, Android, and Facebook, were at one time new, and supplanted something before it.

 

You do understand that your argument is that those 2 phone OSs are all that anyone would use, and nobody would try something new, and nothing new will ever come along, right?

 

Surely you can see the flaws in your thinking, right?

 

 

 

The only genuine questions that remain are will the NX be a hybrid device replacing both the Wii U and 3DS, and when will it be released.

 

Then again, maybe you can't.

[Bill Loguidice]

I can only assume that you don't have kids if you somehow think the Nintendo name still carries anything near the same weight it did in the past. I also have to question your thought process thinking anyone would be clamoring for a Nintendo-branded smartphone that doesn't have all of the apps people expect, among the many other issues with the very concept. That worked out so well for Blackberry and Microsoft. In any case, of course, eventually anyone can be supplanted, but it's orders of magnitude more difficult in a mature market. It sure as hell won't be Nintendo doing the supplanting, but of course they already know that, which is why they're not doing anything other than producing some content for the entrenched players in the mobile space.

[HuckleCat]

I can only assume that you don't have kids if you somehow think the Nintendo name still carries anything near the same weight it did in the past.

 

No, I do. Those fucking Amiibos dude. Her mother is actually a millennial, part of a generation that thinks Nintendo invented everything video games, and Apple was always a success. These are the ones that will be in line for a Nintendo phone.

 

 

I also have to question your thought process thinking anyone would be clamoring for a Nintendo-branded smartphone that doesn't have all of the apps people expect, among the many other issues with the very concept.

 

There, there, Bill. I can feel your heart rate rising. Look, I know that you wrote some books and have a blog, and it's rendered you incapable of being able to handle it when someone tells you you're wrong, but you're just going to have to accept it, especially on a forum you don't have any control over.

 

I have a similar issue. I love, LOVE to argue. Especially when someone doesn't seem to know what they're talking about (and you crossed that line when you pulled out the "no change ever possible" stuff) You've tripped over your own words enough that I can do this all day.

 

Will Nintendo make a phone? Probably not. I posed it as a "what if". Will Nintendo replace 2 consoles at the same time, with both of them creating a profit, and one of them being less than 2 years old? Probably not. You posed it as the likely scenario.

 

Fair enough. All we can do is wait and see.

[Bill Loguidice]

Your ability to argue in such a mature manner is incredibly impressive! I'm especially impressed by you trying to bring up my public credentials and implying that I might ever censor someone who disagrees with me, which has never happened and never will.

 

Regardless, all I know is that my kids (my two oldest girls are 10 and and many of their classmates already have smartphones and use them in lieu of 3DS's and the like. Anecdotes like that usually don't mean much, but when backed up by the actual sales figures (and Nintendo's relative performance in the market these days), it's pretty clear where loyalties, present and future, even in the youngest of children, lie. That's how reasonable forecasts are made. Amiibo figures, Skylanders, Disney Infinity, etc., are all popular and profitable, but that doesn't translate to the type of technology we're talking about.

 

And I don't think I can make any clearer for you the difference in creating a new market or entering a nascent market versus entering a deeply entrenched and settled market. That's not a short term proposition, and that's why the Androids, iOS's, Facebooks, Microsoft's, etc., of the world are so difficult to compete against in their respective strongholds. I don't see how you can fail to grasp that and acknowledge how there's no scenario where a weakened Nintendo can hope to compete in a market so foreign to their core strengths, which again is why they're producing mobile games for the established smartphone players. That's smart on their part and they wouldn't be doing that if they were making sufficient profit doing business as usual.

 

Anyway, fun chat. Feel free to have the last words.