Thinking of getting a NES. Which is the best option

[MaximRecoil]

The top-loader NES is junk. I have one (it was free) and I never use it. Not only are you limited to crappy RF video and sound, but the RF output on them is especially crappy, which results in vertical shadowy lines through the picture, like so. The only thing it has going for it is its reliability, which comes from it using a standard card-edge connector and having no lockout chip.

 

The original front-loader NES is reliable as long as the relevant electrical contact points are clean, plus it has better sound and much better picture quality, due to it having A/V outputs for video and sound (RCA jacks). If for whatever reason you want to use the RF outputs, its RF modulator is properly shielded, so you don't get the vertical lines that you get with the top-loader.

 

As for making a front-loader reliable, forget about aftermarket 72-pin connectors; they are junk. Also, don't bend or sand the pins on the original connector. They simply need to be cleaned properly (and the card-edge pins on the motherboard that the 72-pin connector slides onto should be cleaned as well, and of course, the cartridge pins need to be clean). I use a toothbrush and Bar Keepers Friend (BKF) to clean all of the relevant electrical contacts. Its active ingredient is oxalic acid, and it gets metal clean (unlike e.g. rubbing alcohol). Boiling the 72-pin connector in water seems to be popular lately, though that won't do anything for oxidation if there is any present. It will clean to a certain extent, water being the "universal solvent" afterall, and the heat of boiling water serving to loosen any oily substance which may be binding dust/dirt/crud to the pins. Boiling water also doesn't help you clean the motherboard card-edge pins, nor the cartridge pins, unless you don't mind submerging those things. On the other hand, a Q-tip dipped in a solution of BKF and water works great for cleaning cartridge pins (be sure to rinse the BKF residue off when done). Brasso is another product which works well for this (its active ingredient is also oxalic acid).

 

Here is a video of my front-loader with its original "zero insertion force" 72-pin connector (not a "tight" aftermarket one):

 

https://youtu.be/iZ6DFKHkY_A

 

As you can see, it starts the first time, every time.

 

As for the "Blinking Light Win", I like the concept. I've had the same idea for ages, i.e., a replacement tray which is just a fixed ramp with a standard card-edge connector at the bottom, but I have no way to manufacture such a thing. My only concern with it would be the quality. If it were manufactured by a company like Amp or Molex, I wouldn't worry about it, but I have no idea who manufactured the BLW; probably some generic factory in China. Reports of it having an overly tight grip on the cartridge pins suggests that it is not particularly high quality, or at least, wasn't spec'd properly. The tightness of a standard card-edge connector should be about the same as on a top-loader NES, SNES, or any other top-loading console from a major manufacturer.

[Keatah]

Boiling water, sandpaper, deathgrip slots. Things all bad for your cartridge collection for various reasons.

[MaximRecoil]

Get a multimeter and test the AC adapter before doing assuming the NES is dead. If you don't have a multimeter but have a high pain tolerance, you could always lick the tip with your tongue. If you feel a shock, the adapter is good...

 

NES can take any 9V adapter with a standard barrel tip, AC or CD. Make sure it's rated for at least 850mA though.

 

If the adapter is good and no power to the NES PCB at all, the prime suspect would be either the 7805 regulator or the fuse inside the NES 101. Those components are an easy fix if you're good with a soldering iron. If not, hand it over to an expert. I'd hate to see a great top loader get binned because of a single cheap component gone bad.

 

The NES AC adapter itself is pretty bulletproof. Because it delivers AC rather than DC, it is much less complicated than a typical DC power supply like most consoles use. It consists of nothing more than a step-down transformer inside (and what appears to be a diode inline between one of the conductors in the cable and one of the prongs that plug into the wall), and those rarely fail. I had one that was "dead", but the problem turned out to be a broken wire beneath the insulation near the plug (easy fix), and I suspect that's the usual cause of a "dead" NES AC adapter. The stranded copper wire they use in the cable is thin (two of them beneath the insulation; they appear to be 20 gauge), and the cable tends to get flexed a lot over the years, especially near the plug, which is a weak point in the wires due to being soldered to the plug there.

[MaximRecoil]

Boiling water, sandpaper, deathgrip slots. Things all bad for your cartridge collection for various reasons.

 

Boiling water doesn't hurt anything, though it isn't the most effective method of cleaning metal.

[Keatah]

Leaves deposits on the underside of the connector that flake and migrate around.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

The NES AC adapter itself is pretty bulletproof. Because it delivers AC rather than DC, it is much less complicated than a typical DC power supply like most consoles use. It consists of nothing more than a step-down transformer inside (and what appears to be a diode inline between one of the conductors in the cable and one of the prongs that plug into the wall), and those rarely fail. I had one that was "dead", but the problem turned out to be a broken wire beneath the insulation near the plug (easy fix), and I suspect that's the usual cause of a "dead" NES AC adapter. The stranded copper wire they use in the cable is thin (two of them beneath the insulation; they appear to be 20 gauge), and the cable tends to get flexed a lot over the years, especially near the plug, which is a weak point in the wires due to being soldered to the plug there.

The NES adapter appears to have a round shielded cable design. Unlike the Atari adapters with brittle wires that break off inside the rubber sheath with the least but of yanking. My 2600 adapter cord broke inside the cable when the cord got yanked. I replaced it by splicing the tip onto an old Lynx adapter, which shortly thereafter suffered the same fate. Then I built my multitip frankendaptor that works with six consoles to save wear and tear on the original adapters:

 

Atari, AV Famicom, NES, SNES, Genesis, TG-16. Potentially 7 consoles whenever I decide to add a non-proprietary Atari VCS style minijack plug to my 7800...

Edited September 6, 2015 by stardust4ever

[MaximRecoil]

Leaves deposits on the underside of the connector that flake and migrate around.

 

Maybe if you boiled it every day, for months, like often happens with the inside of a tea kettle. In any event, H2O contains no deposits to leave behind, so if your tap water has a lot of ingredients beyond H2O (minerals, etc.), and if you're particularly worried about the negligable deposits of a single boiling session, use distilled or deionized water instead. Personally, I don't bother with water other than to rinse off the cleaning agent that actually works good (I use BKF, but there are plenty of acid-based substances that will work far better than boiling water, even white vinegar [acetic adid] or lemon juice [citric acid]).

 

The NES adapter appears to have a round shielded cable design.

 

It does, though it is being utilized the same as ordinary 2-conductor cable, such as "lamp cord" / "speaker wire" / "zip cord", etc., i.e., there is no shielding coming into play. I don't know why they decided to use shielded cable for a simple "lamp cord" application; maybe they got a good deal on the stuff. Nintendo likes round, shielded cable. For example, in their classic arcade machines (Punch-Out, Donkey Kong, etc.), they used thin, round shielded cable with Molex-type connectors on each end to connect the line-level audio outputs from the game board's edge connector to the audio amplifier, when coaxial cable with RCA connectors would have been a better choice (coaxial cable being a specialized form of shielded cable). In this application, it is actually being utilized as shielded cable, but coaxial with impedance-matched (75 ohm) RCA connectors is better (and is the industry standard) for analog audio and video signals.

 

In mine, I replaced the entire original shielded cable with some 18 AWG speaker wire I had laying around, which is a bit thicker than the wires in the original shielded cable, thus it is more durable (plus speaker wire is designed to be particularly flexible; it does so by using thinner individual strands, resulting in a higher strand count for any given gauge than general purpose wire). I reused the original plug, and used heat shrink tubing around it for a "boot" (no way to reuse the original boot):

 

 

 

[HoshiChiri]

mbd, do you have a good used media/game store in your area? Perhaps you could take your system in and see if they'll let you borrow some carts/cables to pinpoint the issue with your toploader. It could just be you have a really quirky system, like the SNES my sister had that wouldn't play Super Mario World- just Super Mario World. Anything else was fine.

[0078265317]

I got one from besbuy (insignua) and one from walmart (powerline). Both 1.3a. Both work great for my top loader. Try a universal first.

Edited September 6, 2015 by 0078265317

[CGQuarterly]

The Blinking Light Win sounds like a good fix to the blinking light problem but I know for me personally I would miss that satisfying feel & sound of pressing the cart down. I don't mind ripping the console apart on occassion to clean up the pins and board, but could see how this fix would appeal to many gamers.

 

I agree completely. I bought one only because I wanted to support the kickstarter campaign, as I think that the BLW is a superior alternative to other aftermarket 72-pin connectors. I installed it into a spare NES that I have sitting around, primarily because I wanted to document the process and post it on my website. For my "daily driver" NES, I will never have a problem with cleaning the original connector, when necessary.

[Andromeda Stardust]

The top-loader NES is junk. I have one (it was free) and I never use it. Not only are you limited to crappy RF video and sound, but the RF output on them is especially crappy, which results in vertical shadowy lines through the picture, like so. The only thing it has going for it is its reliability, which comes from it using a standard card-edge connector and having no lockout chip.

 

As for the "Blinking Light Win", I like the concept. I've had the same idea for ages, i.e., a replacement tray which is just a fixed ramp with a standard card-edge connector at the bottom, but I have no way to manufacture such a thing. My only concern with it would be the quality. If it were manufactured by a company like Amp or Molex, I wouldn't worry about it, but I have no idea who manufactured the BLW; probably some generic factory in China. Reports of it having an overly tight grip on the cartridge pins suggests that it is not particularly high quality, or at least, wasn't spec'd properly. The tightness of a standard card-edge connector should be about the same as on a top-loader NES, SNES, or any other top-loading console from a major manufacturer.

Yes the top loader is junk AV as you say. I've never seen one in person but the complaints about the RF and photos of the dreaded "jailbars" make it less appealing. Weird how the AV Famicom that Japan got is perfect in every way.

 

As for the blinking light win, yes, the cartridge grip is extra tight and I struggle to remove the carts. I wish I could fabricate an eject mechanism for it, but I have zero fabrication skills plus an ejector sticking out above the NES would destroy the smooth top case. An eject tab like the SNES would have been awesome though. I am thinking about cramming the Game Genie in there for a while and simply leaving it to see if that loosens it's death grip. Be aware the tongue on the Game Genie needs to be modified to fit the BLW.

 

Still, it gives you the reliability of the top loader with excellent AV and RF output so I'll take the additional effort of removing the cart over the endless fiddling to get a successful read.

Edited September 6, 2015 by stardust4ever

[MaximRecoil]

As for the blinking light win, yes, the cartridge grip is extra tight and I struggle to remove the carts. I wish I could fabricate an eject mechanism for it, but I have zero fabrication skills plus an ejector sticking out above the NES would destroy the smooth top case. An eject tab like the SNES would have been awesome though. I am thinking about cramming the Game Genie in there for a while and simply leaving it to see if that loosens it's death grip. Be aware the tongue on the Game Genie needs to be modified to fit the BLW.

 

Still, it gives you the reliability of the top loader with excellent AV and RF output so I'll take the additional effort of removing the cart over the endless fiddling to get a successful read.

 

I might buy one. I have 3 front-loaders, and one of them is a "parts" one that actually works, but is missing the tray mechanism. It would be perfect for that. Also, I looked at pictures of the BLW, and it is just a PCB with two 72-pin card-edge connectors soldered to it. That means I could easily desolder them (or just the one for the cartridge; the one for the motherboard only has to slide on once so if it is overly tight it doesn't matter) and replace it with a new card-edge connector that I know is high quality, such as once made by Molex or Amp.

 

I replaced the original card edge connector in my Atari Missile Command arcade machine with a new one from Molex about 7 years ago and it is a very nice fit (not too loose, not too tight), and has been completely reliable. I also wired an additional card-edge connector into my Ikari Warriors arcade machine, a 56-pin (the JAMMA standard) one made by Molex, so I could play other rotary joystick games in it, such as Heavy Barrel and Victory Road (which are JAMMA games). Molex and Amp both make top quality connectors.

[mbd30]

So "Ninja Gaiden II" came in the mail. I tried that game.............. and ONCE AGAIN NOTHING HAPPENS WHEN I TURN ON THE @#$#%#$%$%$ CONSOLE.

 

This was listed as "very good condition... clean, tested and working great" by the Amazon seller. I'm still not sure whether I just want to return this lemon I've been sold or try a few more things first. Is it most likely an AC adapter issue when a console doesn't power on at all? Too bad there is no light on the top loader model. I don't know whether the system is even getting power or not, and I don't have a multimeter to test the adapter.

 

I am so pissed off right now.

[7800fan]

Got a friend or any relative nearby with working NES console? Go to their place and offer them a nice cold beer to play on their NES. If you games are working, try their power supply. If you still get nothing, your NES is dead. If you get something with the substitute power supply, the original supply is likely bad. If the game doesn't work at all, you got shit seller passing "tested" games to make quick buck.

[mikey.shake]

So "Ninja Gaiden II" came in the mail. I tried that game.............. and ONCE AGAIN NOTHING HAPPENS WHEN I TURN ON THE @#$#%#$%$%$ CONSOLE.

 

This was listed as "very good condition... clean, tested and working great" by the Amazon seller. I'm still not sure whether I just want to return this lemon I've been sold or try a few more things first. Is it most likely an AC adapter issue when a console doesn't power on at all? Too bad there is no light on the top loader model. I don't know whether the system is even getting power or not, and I don't have a multimeter to test the adapter.

 

I am so pissed off right now.

My sympathies. I had a similar thing happen with my very first VCS. It was such a f'in letdown. I contacted the seller (a few days after the eBum warranty period, *facepalm*), and he was super-cool and swapped me for another Sixer, and it had Heavy guts. But I was so pissed and frustrated until it got sorted out, I didn't even wanna LOOK at the damn thing.

 

If another AC adapter doesn't work, maybe return it and say "That wasn't the one..."? But definitely make the power line your next stop. The nearest gaming store that sells NES stuff would help you out. Especially if they could just sell you a power adapter on the spot. I'm just saying that sometimes things work themselves out. And good luck with it all.

Edited September 8, 2015 by mikey.shake

[MaximRecoil]

Is it most likely an AC adapter issue when a console doesn't power on at all?

 

Yes, and you should buy yourself a multimeter. They cost $6 at Harbor Freight, and it is one of the most useful tools to have if you plan on owning vintage electronics. With a multimeter, soldering equipment, knowing how to use them, and help from the internet, there is almost nothing in the realm of video games that you can't fix. In the 10 years that I've owned arcade machines (I have 4 of them), I've managed to fix every problem that has come along (and there have been a lot of them; old arcade machines are far more problematic than old consoles) using only those tools/resources.

 

Actually, the first issue I fixed with my first arcade machine involved help from somewhere other than the internet. It was an audio issue with my Super Punch-Out!! machine, and after not finding help on the internet, I wrote a letter to Nintendo of Japan, in care of Genyo Takeda (the head of R&D3, which designed Punch-Out!! and Super Punch-Out!! in the first place), and he assigned an engineer to help me, who sent me the following email:

 

 

I am an engineer working for Mr. Takeda at Nintendo. Generally speaking,

the manufacturing companies are not able to support technically and do the

maintenance of too old products out of warranty, because there would be no

spare components to replace or fix, even if we locate the problems. Anyway

Mr. Takeda assigned me to help you, as much as possible, fix the problem of

your Super Punch-Out hardware. However please keep it in your mind that I

do my best to locate the problem, but you should not expect excessively,

because I would not like to make you be disappointed finally.

 

For your information, I found the pdf file of the Punch-Out’s circuit

schematic at

http://arcadeconnection.serverbox.org/arcade%20machines/english/Punch-Out!!%20[Operation]%20(EN).pdf.

I attached the file here for you.

 

So I have a question about your CPU Printed Circuit Board, at the location

of 4F and 4H, Do you find a pair of the same sound processors of 2A03s?

These 2A03s are the processors with sound frequency-modulation features,

which are the derivative version of Nintendo Entertainment System’s chip.

One 2A03 generates two channels of sounds, so totally four channels of the

sound sources are to be mixed through tie-up by ohmic-resistors. Anyway

could you check two processors of 2A03 (4F and 4H) ? Thank you.

 

_________________________________________________________________

無料でメールボックス250MBの 「MSN Hotmail」 http://www.hotmail.com/ いますぐ

サインアップ

 

 

After a few emails back and forth he pinpointed the problem (a bad TTL logic chip on the CPU board), which was an easy and cheap fix once I knew which part to replace.

[mbd30]

Okay, I got a multimeter from Wal-Mart. I tested the AC adapter for my NES and the voltage varies from 0.0 to very low. I tested my SNES AC adapter and it gives a strong consistent reading, so it seems that the multimeter works properly.

 

I guess I have a bad AC adapter after all. Can I replace it with a store bought universal AC adapter or should I get Nintendo brand?

[CatPix]

You can use your SNES adaptor. Aside from the label, they are the same. It's even written on the label "for use with the (Super) Nintendo Entertainment System"

 

If you want to get another one for saving on plugging and unplugging from your NES to your SNES, any 9V AC or DC power supply will do, as long as it delivers at least 850 mA. Like a Megadrive 1 power supply if you have one.

 

Keep in mind that while the NES and SNES accept AC and DC currents, you should never use their power supplies in any other console or electronics than a NES or SNES.

 

the NES and SNES are fine accepting AC or DC currents, as the AC current is turned into the system as DC. But AC current feed into a DC system will damage them.

Edited September 8, 2015 by CatPix

[mbd30]

My SNES adapter won't even fit the hole in the back of ny NES toploader. It's too big. (That's what she said).

[mbd30]

Oops, my multimeter settings were wrong. I had it set to measure DC output rather than AC and NES adapter outputs AC. Once I set it to measure AC, the adapter tested fine. So it's not that after all.

 

I'll probably send this system back.

[0078265317]

Nes is dc not ac. Just to be sure goto bestbuy and get the insignia 1300 mah for 20 dollars. Set it to 9v-. And try again. Works for me. The powerline from walmart also works for me. Just be sure to get the 1300 version. Not 600 mah.

[CatPix]

I have PAL and US NES, and I can tell you for sure that both labels says "AC9V". Now maybe the top loader take DC, and that might be why it cannot accept the power supply of the standard NES?

[0078265317]

I may have been wrong abbout the dc. I thought I read it here.

 

But the top loader indeed works with the regular toaster supply. Mine does at least.

[mbd30]

Nes is dc not ac.

 

 

Are you sure? The back of the adapter says "Output AC 9V" and my multimeter correctly measures around 9 volts when I set it to AC. I don't think that it's the adapter.

[0078265317]

Asi said i may have been wrong. I read it here I thought. Anyhow just get a universal from bestbuy or walmart at least 1300mah. Both I got work.