Is it time? Flashback II

[+BBWW]

I meant if you trashed that Sears with a Raspberry Pi...LOL. I've got about 6 extras Intellivision II's.

 

huh? I got a sears model.

[pimpmaul69]

I meant if you trashed that Sears with a Raspberry Pi...LOL. I've got about 6 extras Intellivision II's.

 

i couldnt in good conscious do it. Im loving it too much. Now to hook the thing up...

[+BBWW]

I just I could have sent a cable....LOL

[pimpmaul69]

I just I could have sent a cable....LOL

i got a cable. I just havent taken the time to work on stuff.

[+DZ-Jay]

 

Essentially, yes. It's a custom interface. It's rather nicely done, actually, but there's no real support for anything other than keyboard controls unfortunately. On the apps I was testing there was no support for physical controls (controllers) on those either. (And yes, I've pointed that out as a negative to them multiple times.) On the plus side, the emulation was spot on.

 

I can imagine such complaints fall on deaf ears, like Mr. Robinson said about the makers of the original "Plug-to-Play" game packs: "Instead of recoding the games for a NES chip, would you be interested in a custom NES emulator?" "Who cares?! We've sold four million! KA-Ching!"

 

-dZ.

[Bill Loguidice]

 

I can imagine such complaints fall on deaf ears, like Mr. Robinson said about the makers of the original "Plug-to-Play" game packs: "Instead of recoding the games for a NES chip, would you be interested in a custom NES emulator?" "Who cares?! We've sold four million! KA-Ching!"

 

-dZ.

 

They're usually pretty good about accepting such feedback. Perhaps there's an unknown technical limitation (of which, I can't possibly imagine).

[Bill Loguidice]

On the bright side, there are ways to spoof the keyboard with a controller. Not something the average person is going to figure out, but it's doable. This looks to be Windows-only and DRM-laden, but I'm sure there are ways to do it even under those conditions.

 

I couldn't make it fully work with JoyToKey when I tried it, but I'm sure there's a way with SOMETHING. The point is, there shouldn't have to be a workaround, it should just support standard controllers (like the Xbox ones). Like I said, otherwise, the actual user interface is one of the better ones I've seen for an emulator (for improving that, they did listen to my feedback, moving several elements around in a more logical manner).

[+nurmix]

 

I can imagine such complaints fall on deaf ears, like Mr. Robinson said about the makers of the original "Plug-to-Play" game packs: "Instead of recoding the games for a NES chip, would you be interested in a custom NES emulator?" "Who cares?! We've sold four million! KA-Ching!"

 

-dZ.

From talking to Keith in the past, Intellivision Productions isn't involved in the 'digital distribution' projects of AT Games. But the next time I have him over to record something for the podcast, I'll bring it up and see if anything has changed in that regard.

[+Gemintronic]

Fixing the sound issues would be huge. Adding some new games would be enough to get me to buy future Intellivision FB's. This seems to be AtGames strategy for their Atari FB's.

 

Adding an SD card slot would be cool, but ultimately might hurt sales because there would be no reason to buy future versions with more games...

 

Actually, an SD card slot would be the primary reason for me to get this. Not only for homebrew but development.

[First Spear]

It appears to me that we are not the Flashback market. The Flashback market is someone who recognizes the Intellivision and wants to relive some of their old-school game time, or the spouse of someone who wants to give a unique Christmas gift. Not a person who actually has one connected to a living TV/display at this moment. There is somewhere near zero profit margin on mass-producing something that would appeal to folks that read the AA forums.

 

 

 

Actually, an SD card slot would be the primary reason for me to get this. Not only for homebrew but development.

[First Spear]

I like the classic "email flood pressure" idea. AtGames has no idea what (potential) customers are saying, unless they say it. It would probably take a campaign guided by the Intellivisionaries (an organization that is respected, has a track record of caring about the console, and not in it to compete with AtGames) or something similar to get the kind of PR pressure on AtGames for them to even notice.

 

 

I could imagine a Flashback II with the same form factor and controllers as the FB1, just with the IntyII color scheme. Definitely not spending the money/time to reproduce IntyII controllers that everyone hates.

 

 

Improved sound emulation - a low cost and appreciated update AtGames could do.

 

Controller wiring - leave it as it is now, let Nurmix sell more cable converters for people that really want 'em.* then AtGames doesn't have to spend money on that either.

 

 

But what games to add?

 

I think that is the main problem. There are thousands of FB1 units out there already, and I suspect that they will be back on US store shelves this Christmas, as I think the main FB market is the casual gamer that has nostalgia for the Intellivision or spouse who wants to give a unique gift. So the FB2 should have 30+ new ones with no overlap from the FB1 for the same price as the FB1, or maybe all of the FB1 games plus 20-30 for around $20 more.

 

But what games to add?

 

From what I gleaned from the Keith Robinson interviews, Intellivision Productions is not interested in pushing hard on the legal or financial front to get licensing for Activision or Imagic or Interphase or Sega or Parker Bros games; the IP return on investment is not good enough in his calculation. I think he is primarily interested in mass market strategies to make money. To throw out a bad analogy, the Android market strategy is to throw out as much tech as possible and make a thin margin but the iPhone market strategy is to tightly control a limited amount of tech and maximize margin-per unit with less units sold overall, but the dollars end up being the same.

 

But what games to add?

 

I also gleaned from the KR interviews that IP is skittish about doing business with anyone who has infringed (real or perceived, as perception can be the reality) on copyrights in the past. So that probably prevents something like Boulderdash from appearing on a FB2, because as awesome as it is the publisher once way back did not have a licensing deal with Nintendo of Japan when they got involved with DK1/2. If I surmise correctly, that leaves about 2-4 homebrew/independent games and maybe the following if KR has got a relationship with license holders for

• Championship Tennis
• Commando
• Diner
• Easter Eggs (if it was done, what was that game supposed to do/be?)
• Kool Aid Man (even though it is a bad looking game)

 

 

So... I don't see how there can be an FB2 unless there is a way to get all new games on it that won't cannibalize FB1 sales. And IP is not going to do that.

 

We're in a bind.

 

 

 

 

 

* I think Nurmix should do some Bing Ads and Adwords text ads for the cables so when people are searching for Intellivision or Flashback, his stuff would pop up. It's cost-per-click, so if no one clicks you don't pay, if someone clicks through to buy one from your site, you pay in my estimation about $.10 per click probably.

 

 

 

Is it time to put the blitz on AtGames?

 

Do we have a shot at pressuring/influencing atgames into releasing an Intellivision flashback 2?

 

Maybe 1.5 with corrected sound emulation and fixed wiring for the controllers.

 

Of course we all want additional games. It should be easy enough to get some homebrew games added.

 

We all want Tron, Bump n Jump etc. I don't know how that will go?

 

But maybe Activision/Imagic? Atari could reciprocate for the M-Network games. Do we even want the Coleco games?

 

Would it make sense to have a new look? Intellivision 2 Colors. Just so the wiring correction can be done and a distinct look would make it easy to support customers.

 

Of course, I LOVE the new controllers. So, please keep this level of quality, change colors and wiring to work with original hardware.

 

Just my ranting...

 

I want to start sending emails to service@atgames.net to get the ball rolling.

 

Edited September 10, 2015 by First Spear

[+Gemintronic]

Yeah. I've heard the no market agrument before. I'm not sure if I agree with it. I am sure we should be more vocal about better features.

[Bill Loguidice]

I like the classic "email flood pressure" idea. AtGames has no idea what (potential) customers are saying, unless they say it. It would probably take a campaign guided by the Intellivisionaries (an organization that is respected, has a track record of caring about the console, and not in it to compete with AtGames) or something similar to get the kind of PR pressure on AtGames for them to even notice.

 

AtGames knows what customers, potential or otherwise, are saying and think. There are very specific and practical reasons why they do what they do. An email or any other campaign from the community is not going to change the position AtGames was put in by the Intellivision and ColecoVision Flashbacks not selling as well as the "traditional" Atari and Sega units. That's why you're seeing new version of the latter and not new versions of the former. I can't get into all of the details, but obviously, this year is out. Next year is possible depending upon how well the existing inventory moves this holiday season and the reaction of retail buyers to successor systems. I know those were being shopped to retail buyers earlier this year, but they clearly weren't that interested.

 

Let's be frank, as well. All of the issues that those of us in this community were aware of and/or didn't care for, are not really something the general public - which this is targeted to - knew or cared about. Perhaps the weaker sales were due to there not being as strong nostalgia for Intellivision and ColecoVision stuff with the general public as expected, or perhaps it was down to the lack of super recognizable games (something the Atari, and, especially, the Sega products have no issue with).

[+Lathe26]

It was time for a FB II version the moment I found out the controllers weren't (out of the box) compatible with original hardware.

You probably already know this, but Nurmix does sell 2 types of adapter cables that let FB controllers plug in the Intellivision II, Sears, and the original.

 

Edit: oops, looks like other people already covered this topic. :-P

[+DZ-Jay]

Let's be frank, as well. All of the issues that those of us in this community were aware of and/or didn't care for, are not really something the general public - which this is targeted to - knew or cared about. Perhaps the weaker sales were due to there not being as strong nostalgia for Intellivision and ColecoVision stuff with the general public as expected, or perhaps it was down to the lack of super recognizable games (something the Atari, and, especially, the Sega products have no issue with).

I have a feeling it's both: Although the Intellivision was the #2 console during the 1980s, it actually occupied a very distant second place. Also, some of the most memorable games made for it were released by third-parties. Not including them could have affected its appeal.

 

Overall, it seems understandable that it would not command the same attraction of the Atari VCS or Sega, which defined their respective generations.

[+Lathe26]

At least from what I saw, part of the slow sales for the Intellivision FB might have to do with stores not putting them on the shelves. Last winter, I only saw 2 of the 4 possible models FBs at any given store location. Product doesn't sell if it isn't on the shelf.

 

Granted, I didn't go hunting for them. I only looked at stores I was going to anyways for other reasons (i.e. behaving like a casual shopper, not a collector). However, that kind of shopping is what AtGames was targeting and it seems the stores let them down.

 

Here's a summary of what FBs I saw on the shelf:

Atari: always

Sega: frequently

Coleco: rarely

Intellivision: never (not an exaggeration)

[+Gemintronic]

I was able to track down the Inty Flashbacks but the special variants that had a different version of a sports game were MIA. Me and family members would call the various stores and they would never know when their shipments would be in. Ugh.

[Bill Loguidice]

I have a feeling it's both: Although the Intellivision was the #2 console during the 1980s, it actually occupied a very distant second place. Also, some of the most memorable games made for it were released by third-parties. Not including them could have affected its appeal.

 

Overall, it seems understandable that it would not command the same attraction of the Atari VCS or Sega, which defined their respective generations.

 

Sales-wise, the ColecoVision was the number 2 pre-Crash console. I'd say mindshare is probably greater for Intellivision, though, thanks to more memorable advertising and being around for longer, and obviously post-Crash the Intellivision brand was far better leveraged than the ColecoVision one.

 

I think timing also was a factor with these. If they were released as-is a few years earlier, sales might have been better overall. I think mobile has really taken a lot of steam out of these "casual" TV game devices, and sales across the board for these types of devices are down.

[+Lathe26]

Actually, of the pre-crash consoles, Intellivision outsold the ColecoVision with ~50% more units. The Intellivision was #2 while ColecoVision was #3. I don't have any idea who #4 was.

[BydoEmpire]

I really dig my Flashback. I hate to admit it, but my Inty 2 isn't even plugged in right now. Maybe I'm in the minority on AA, but I'm not in any hurry to buy a new Flashback. I just spent $40 on it not that long ago, and even though I've been playing Intellivision for 35 years I didn't notice the sound differences. I never A/B'd, and most of the games I've been playing on the FB I either don't own or only played a little bit on original hardware. I don't know what would make me buy another Flashback except a LOT more games, or maybe a cartridge port so I could retire my crusty Inty 2 entirely. It'd probably have to have both to justify.

Edited September 10, 2015 by BydoEmpire

[Bill Loguidice]

Actually, of the pre-crash consoles, Intellivision outsold the ColecoVision with ~50% more units. The Intellivision was #2 while ColecoVision was #3. I don't have any idea who #4 was.

 

Not based on the numbers I've seen, where the Intellivision took much longer to reach the same numbers. In any case, the ColecoVision sold several million in a very compressed timeframe, whereas the Intellivision was more of a slow burn, lasting on the market a good decade.

[+wongojack]

You probably already know this, but Nurmix does sell 2 types of adapter cables that let FB controllers plug in the Intellivision II, Sears, and the original.

 

Edit: oops, looks like other people already covered this topic. :-P

 

Yes, I know how to connect wires, and I've built my own custom controller. I just want there to be more working Intellivision controllers in the world that work (out of the box). The FB ones are nice, but we need more.

[1980gamer]

 

Yes, I know how to connect wires, and I've built my own custom controller. I just want there to be more working Intellivision controllers in the world that work (out of the box). The FB ones are nice, but we need more.

 

Completely agree. And I own the DB9 Intellivision 2 and Intellivision 1 kits already.

[freewheel]

Actually, of the pre-crash consoles, Intellivision outsold the ColecoVision with ~50% more units. The Intellivision was #2 while ColecoVision was #3. I don't have any idea who #4 was.

 

The best numbers available (Wikipedia, of course!) have pre-crash systems thusly:

 

VCS/2600: 30 million

INTV: 3 million

Colecovision: 2+ million

Odyssey^2: 2 million

 

However I kinda distrust these numbers, because they also claim that the 7800 sold nearly 4 million. There is no way the 7800 outsold the Intellivison, unless damned near everyone threw out their 7800s and everyone kept their Intellivisions. In the wild I see the ratio at about 5 to 1.

 

[freewheel]

The FB ones are nice, but we need more.

 

I would love to stumble upon a stash of 1000 spare FB controllers, that AtGames can't figure out a use for. I'll gladly pay cash.