FPGA Based Videogame System

[SubElement]

<p>

Whats in the box

• - Analogue Super Nt
• - Super Turrican - Director's Cut (digital)
• - Super Turrican 2 (digital)
• - STDC Original SNES-style box art
• - HDMI cable
• - USB cable
• - Worldwide USB Power Supply [100-240v, 50/60hz, USA/JPN plug-type]

Wait... does that mean it doesnt come with an Aus/UK/Euro plug?

[Andromeda Stardust]

Wait... does that mean it doesnt come with an Aus/UK/Euro plug?

 

you can use any generic usb wall-wort with your region plug on it.

[retro_fan]

There should be a setting to "auto-like" posts of a given author at AtariAge -- then we could all set it to "on" for Kevtris.

[Kismet]

But the newer versions would obviously have even better accuracy as bsnes has been updated multiple times since then... if anything that makes your point about minor graphical glitches even less relevant because of how accurate that emulator is now.

 

Byuu's SNES emulator's system requirements are also not something any desktop computer can hit (especially after Meltdown and Spectre patches shaved 10% to 50% of the CPU performance off just about everything.) Let alone rubbish arm boards. A few people with OC'd systems at 4Ghz might be able to run Yoshi's Island, but in general the point about needing a very expensive desktop hasn't changed. The FPGA console is still the better, and cheaper option. Higan is only an option for people who already made that very-expensive-gaming desktop rig to play games like FFXIV and Neir:Automata which cause CPU and GPU's to die.

 

Even if you can play Higan, you will still run into the latency issues on Windows, nobody installs linux just to play with emulators. The closest thing anyone can get to an off-the-shelf emulator box is an nVidia Shield (which has the same power as the Nintendo Switch) , and even that costs more than the Super NT, and requires a bunch of fiddling around, hence scammers selling fully-loaded kodi boxes configured that way on eBay.

 

All paths towards reasonably accurate software emulation inevitably cost more money than buying the actual equipment to play it accurately in the first place. If the SuperNT has a JB firmware at a later point that can replace every 8-bit and 16-bit console in someone's living room, that would probably be a net benefit. I no doubt believe that some people bought it with the intent of selling their collection of actual consoles/carts, but everyone else likely would rather stick that stuff in storage.

 

Disc based systems, I don't think there is any love lost over converting discs to images stored on a hard drive. Disc media was always cheap, and unlike rom carts, all well-used discs rot pretty quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if people's collections become mostly unplayable on the real hardware, as discs are unlikely to last 25 years unless they were never opened. Especially those in top-loaded consoles like the PS1, where you often had to bend the disc a little to remove it from the machine.

 

Inevitably we will see a repeat of this argument if and when Analogue pursues their next project. If Analogue wants to create something with broader mass-market appeal, they would need to seek a way to licence the firmware for old computer systems as well, because there is an entire market of "old DOS", "old C64", "old Amiga" and "old Apple II" that could be served by one device, and at present many of those DOS games can be purchased from GOG, thus negating the need for people to pirate anything.

[Sho]

8Bitdo's product support page was updated today to reflect the addition of the new SN30 pads. Each model of the pads will all use the same firmware that the older SN30/SF30 pads uses as well, version 4.02, while the accompanying receivers should be on version 1.30:

 

http://support.8bitdo.com/

 

I've had two of the older models for over a year now (one SN30, one SF30), and they feel and work great. However, at least for the SN30, the D-Pad wore away over the year of semi-moderate use. I simply removed the old pad and replaced it with a spare OEM pad taken from an old SNES controller and it was back in action.

[Andromeda Stardust]

8Bitdo's product support page was updated today to reflect the addition of the new SN30 pads. Each model of the pads will all use the same firmware that the older SN30/SF30 pads uses as well, version 4.02, while the accompanying receivers should be on version 1.30:

 

http://support.8bitdo.com/

 

I've had two of the older models for over a year now (one SN30, one SF30), and they feel and work great. However, at least for the SN30, the D-Pad wore away over the year of semi-moderate use. I simply removed the old pad and replaced it with a spare OEM pad taken from an old SNES controller and it was back in action.

 

so is it confirmed that the new snes receivers use the same bt connection as the old receivers, and not the proprietary 2.4ghz of the new snes mini wireless controllers?

[Atariboy]

Which confirms that we weren't being lied to. These are SN30 Bluetooth controllers with the expected range of compatibility. They're not mislabeled SNES 2.4G controllers designed for the NES/SNES Classic Editions that's being paired with a brand new style of SNES Retro Receiver capable of receiving the 2.4G signal, like a couple of people here swore was going to be the case.

 

It also confirms that some of the other 8BitDo products I've bought for the controller and receiver coming with my Super NT will be compatible with them, which caused so much befuddlement in this thread earlier in the year when I asked if the matching Super NT controller would work with a NES Retro Receiver.

 

I think it was misinterpreted in about a dozen different ways other than what was actually asked, even though I believe I only asked if the Super NT controller would work with an 8BitDo NES Retro Receiver, lol.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Atariboy

[Sho]

 

 

so is it confirmed that the new snes receivers use the same bt connection as the old receivers, and not the proprietary 2.4ghz of the new snes mini wireless controllers?

 

 

Yep! It's exactly the same BT receivers. Also means Chris Taber must be a hell of a deal maker and marketing man to get 8Bitdo to produce these controllers/receivers in tandem with Super NT's release. Not only that, but also what looks like at 8~10$ off what it would have cost to buy each controller and receiver seperately.

 

Not sure where all of the 2.4ghz controller rumors came from.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Sho

[haightc]

I just plan on using my wired SFC controllers for the SuperNT.

I have one other furture request for kevtris beyond 4:3 could the add on board also have a SDI or HD-SDI output. HDMI to HD-SDI converters vary a bit in ability and quality

[leods]

 

Yep! It's exactly the same BT receivers. Also means Chris Taber must be a hell of a deal maker and marketing man to get 8Bitdo to produce these controllers/receivers in tandem with Super NT's release. Not only that, but also what looks like at 8~10$ off what it would have cost to buy each controller and receiver seperately.

 

Not sure where all of the 2.4ghz controller rumors came from.

Chris Taber works for 8bitdo as CMO. Also, if you buy them off e-bay, you can get a controller and a receiver for about 40 bucks buying them separately. Of course sent from china, but still. Not to mention, the 2.4 ghz controllers that sell for even less are basically the same hardware minus a license, so the difference is price is still pretty big between those.

 

The prices practiced by 8bit do are actually nonsensical. Their SNES controllers were never 40 dollars worth of hardware. They sell that arcade stick for 80 bucks, and it's basically the same as the Mayflash f300 that sells for 60.

 

They were very smart as selling themselves off as premium, just because their competition is junk. Hitting the price point of 40 to capitalize on the Super NT sales was a no brainer, just like hitting that price point of 25 to sell their controllers (the SAME controllers at that) to the SNES mini croud.

 

I have to admit. Their pricing strategies are just brilliant. I bought my SNES30 for 18 dollars off e-bay. New. For that price? Sure. It's worth it. It's a pretty good controller. And yes, quite accurate to the original.

[Toth]

8Bitdo's product support page was updated today to reflect the addition of the new SN30 pads. Each model of the pads will all use the same firmware that the older SN30/SF30 pads uses as well, version 4.02, while the accompanying receivers should be on version 1.30:

 

http://support.8bitdo.com/

 

I've had two of the older models for over a year now (one SN30, one SF30), and they feel and work great. However, at least for the SN30, the D-Pad wore away over the year of semi-moderate use. I simply removed the old pad and replaced it with a spare OEM pad taken from an old SNES controller and it was back in action.

I didn't know you could replace the rubber that easily in these. I have always wanted them to feel more like a real SNES controller but the buttons and dpad aren't the same. I will have to swap one out.

[F34R]

My stealth controller came today and it looks and feels great.

 

 

 

Works really well.

[Wolf_]

 

Byuu's SNES emulator's system requirements are also not something any desktop computer can hit (especially after Meltdown and Spectre patches shaved 10% to 50% of the CPU performance off just about everything.) Let alone rubbish arm boards. A few people with OC'd systems at 4Ghz might be able to run Yoshi's Island, but in general the point about needing a very expensive desktop hasn't changed. The FPGA console is still the better, and cheaper option. Higan is only an option for people who already made that very-expensive-gaming desktop rig to play games like FFXIV and Neir:Automata which cause CPU and GPU's to die.

 

Even if you can play Higan, you will still run into the latency issues on Windows, nobody installs linux just to play with emulators. The closest thing anyone can get to an off-the-shelf emulator box is an nVidia Shield (which has the same power as the Nintendo Switch) , and even that costs more than the Super NT, and requires a bunch of fiddling around, hence scammers selling fully-loaded kodi boxes configured that way on eBay.

 

All paths towards reasonably accurate software emulation inevitably cost more money than buying the actual equipment to play it accurately in the first place. If the SuperNT has a JB firmware at a later point that can replace every 8-bit and 16-bit console in someone's living room, that would probably be a net benefit. I no doubt believe that some people bought it with the intent of selling their collection of actual consoles/carts, but everyone else likely would rather stick that stuff in storage.

 

Disc based systems, I don't think there is any love lost over converting discs to images stored on a hard drive. Disc media was always cheap, and unlike rom carts, all well-used discs rot pretty quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if people's collections become mostly unplayable on the real hardware, as discs are unlikely to last 25 years unless they were never opened. Especially those in top-loaded consoles like the PS1, where you often had to bend the disc a little to remove it from the machine.

 

Inevitably we will see a repeat of this argument if and when Analogue pursues their next project. If Analogue wants to create something with broader mass-market appeal, they would need to seek a way to licence the firmware for old computer systems as well, because there is an entire market of "old DOS", "old C64", "old Amiga" and "old Apple II" that could be served by one device, and at present many of those DOS games can be purchased from GOG, thus negating the need for people to pirate anything.

lol plenty of chips can hit 4Ghz without a problem even after the update. And only a few older chips got hit anywhere near as bad as 30%. And besides the performance core for bsnes can be run on systems a lot lower end without issue. (No one is going to have their gameplay negatively impacted by one or two graphical glitches in some games they probably won't even notice).

 

I know several gamers that dual boot operating systems. (Although most of them use Linux whenever possible and only installed windows to play the games that don't work on Linux)

 

And I was talking about desktop emulation not emulator in a box garbage. I am excited about the Switch claiming it can emulate up to the Gamecube era though. If once hacked it can cover up to the ps1 and Dreamcast that will be a good day indeed.

 

And obviously fpgas are better than emulation, I've said that 3 times now.

 

And you are drastically overestimating the cost of having a "gaming" computer which is something most people want to own anyways. It isn't that hard to go on ebay and pick up a mobo ($50), 16gb ddr4 ram ($100), an i7 6700k cpu ($200), a gtx 1080 gpu ($600) (Complete overkill but excellent for modern games), and a bronze rated psu ($40) which will leave you with a computer that can play any modern game at ultra high settings and be complete overkill for emulation (and if you don't care about modern games as much just get a cheaper gpu). Assuming you already need a computer and don't only play pc games older than 10 years most of that is stuff you would buy anyways. And if you want to talk about properly shielded rgb cables, rgb mods, region free mods, everdrives, optical drive emulators, maintenance like recapping and disc replacements, upscalers/converters, switch boxes, ect it is farrrrrr more expensive to play on original hardware and keep it working than it is to have a decent computer to emulate on (which most people would want anyways).

 

You also highly exaggerate the aggressiveness of disc rot. Unless you live in a highly humid area (I'm talking rain forest, swampland, hurricane alley, tiny umbrellas in your drinks tropical) then discs shouldn't have any problem in 50 years or more. But that really doesn't have anything to do with what we were talking about.

 

The only downside to fpgas is that they are maxing out at 16 bit systems right now. But there is a clearly defined tier system when it comes to best gaming experiences:

Fpga - If a Kevtris designed core exists

> Emulation - If the system/game has 0 or only minor playback glitches

> Original hardware - only as a last resort if the game isn't covered well by the above

 

To say original hardware is always better because it is under 22ms more responsive (in most cases) when most people aren't even playing on a crt or using an ossc to even be able to experience the difference is just stupid when you could experience things like 60fps 4k graphics with a deblur filter on a system that used to run in 480i at 30fps.

[SubElement]

 

 

you can use any generic usb wall-wort with your region plug on it.

 

 

Ahh yes, I somehow glossed over the USB part. Although I am slightly disappointed it doesn't come with a worldwide kit like the Nt Mini. Super easy to rectify though.

[Sho]

Chris Taber works for 8bitdo as CMO. Also, if you buy them off e-bay, you can get a controller and a receiver for about 40 bucks buying them separately. Of course sent from china, but still. Not to mention, the 2.4 ghz controllers that sell for even less are basically the same hardware minus a license, so the difference is price is still pretty big between those.

 

The prices practiced by 8bit do are actually nonsensical. Their SNES controllers were never 40 dollars worth of hardware. They sell that arcade stick for 80 bucks, and it's basically the same as the Mayflash f300 that sells for 60.

 

They were very smart as selling themselves off as premium, just because their competition is junk. Hitting the price point of 40 to capitalize on the Super NT sales was a no brainer, just like hitting that price point of 25 to sell their controllers (the SAME controllers at that) to the SNES mini croud.

 

I have to admit. Their pricing strategies are just brilliant. I bought my SNES30 for 18 dollars off e-bay. New. For that price? Sure. It's worth it. It's a pretty good controller. And yes, quite accurate to the original.

 

Oh wow, didn't know that about Taber at all -- makes sense now why they have a similar online marketing strategy. Can't blame the man to pass off his products as premium, especially if no one is stepping up to be a good competition. The retro Bluetooth/wireless controller market is a niche and small market, but obviously one that is wide open for the taking.

 

I cannot complain at all myself -- they work very well for me (sans D-Pad) and they feel great to hold, and almost 1:1 with an OEM Nintendo pad.

[DadsGlasses]

Im hoping that Atari Age will split this into three threads:

 

1 FPGA General discussion

2 Analogue NT Mini

3 Analogue Super NT

[cacophony]

Idk, I kind of like having it all in this thread. Often the discussion topics overlap multiple categories, plus this thread has only gotten an average of 6.75 posts per day since its inception. I've never found it overwhelming to keep up, and it's easy to just not read the posts that aren't of interest.

[kevtris]

Idk, I kind of like having it all in this thread. Often the discussion topics overlap multiple categories, plus this thread has only gotten an average of 6.75 posts per day since its inception. I've never found it overwhelming to keep up, and it's easy to just not read the posts that aren't of interest.

I like having it all in one thread.

[brentonius]

This is the only thread I follow. Don't make me follow 2 more

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

Not sure where all of the 2.4ghz controller rumors came from.

Newly manufactured SNES Mini wireless controllers only worked with the bundled receivers and not with existing bt devices. It was assumed by myself and others that 8bitdo was phasing out the old line of bt controllers, that new Super NT controllers were copies of the proprietary wireless Classic Mini controller pairs, and said new controllers would not function properly with older retro receivers. I am relieved to learn that this is not the case.

[SubElement]

Newly manufactured SNES Mini wireless controllers only worked with the bundled receivers and not with existing bt devices. It was assumed by myself and others that 8bitdo was phasing out the old line of bt controllers, that new Super NT controllers were copies of the proprietary wireless Classic Mini controller pairs, and said new controllers would not function properly with older retro receivers. I am relieved to learn that this is not the case.

 

But the images of the controllers have always had "Bluetooth Controller" on them since they were shown off?

[Atariboy]

The product page also specifically called them a SN30 Bluetooth controller with a SNES Retro Receiver.

 

There was never any indication in the slightest that these controllers were going to be the new SN30 2.4G model with a brand new style of SNES receiver.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Atariboy

[Sho]

I have to take back what I said earlier about the revisions on the controllers now that I've received mine. The controller I have is currently on version 4.10 and not 4.02. The receiver however is version 1.3 as expected.

 

Not sure why v4.10 isn't reflected on 8Bitdo's website.

 

---

 

The controller feels good as the others, but the D-Pad is slightly stiff. Should break in after a few rounds of use. What is interesting to note is that you need a torx T6 bit to unscrew the screws now instead of a basic phillips screw driver.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Sho

[Wolf_]

I have to take back what I said earlier about the revisions on the controllers now that I've received mine. The controller I have is currently on version 4.10 and not 4.02. The receiver however is version 1.3 as expected.

 

Not sure why v4.10 isn't reflected on 8Bitdo's website.

 

---

 

The controller feels good as the others, but the D-Pad is slightly stiff. Should break in after a few rounds of use. What is interesting to note is that you need a torx T6 bit to unscrew the screws now instead of a basic phillips screw driver.

Could you go into more detail on this? Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that there are two different versions of both the controller and the receiver and all 4 of the Super Nt themed ones are on a new bluetooth standard that has less latency and the receiver is also compatible with older bluetooth devices like the ds4 and switch pro controller?

 

So ideally you would want to get the newer controller for faster response times and the receiver as well for compatibility with everything? Afaik firmware shouldn't matter because it is updateable or at least the nes controllers and receivers could be updated.

[RadikusRLZ]

I would tell him to just order this: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=2509instead of using his own homemade cable, but it's out of stock.

Yes, but shipping cost is 80 US dollars to ship in Finland.