FPGA Based Videogame System

[TPR]

I just want to clear up a couple of things before this devolves even further....

 

He deleted your post almost instantly but now acts like it was his decision to do just what you advised him to do . And having a custom chip built .

 

No post was deleted, in fact, it is right here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/280280-introducing-project-pegasus-at-prge-and-retroworldexpo-2018/?p=4110351

 

Eduardo doesn't even have moderator ability to delete posts in that thread.

 

All the hostility against people who brought up the inconvenient truth that it was 480p only was bad for the cause. Calling such people "trolls" was disingenuous at best.

 

All of the comments and opinions that were brought up about 480p are still there. None of those original posts from anyone voicing their concerns were ever deleted. The only "hostility" so-to-speak was a select few who refused to "let it go" and continued to create drama in the thread. Those people were absoultely trolling, including but not limited to abusive private messages, using the private messaging system to troll other people, posting in other threads linking to the drama, and stalking on social media that followed after they were removed from the thread. Without question - There was trolling going on.

 

Both Albert and I discussed the situation and I moderated that topic as I felt needed and while some people may not have agreed with my moderating of that thread, to be fair, once those select few people and their unsolicited drama was removed, everything was back on track and it became a very civil discussion once again, even with additional people who raised issue about the 480p, but were able to do it without trolling or being dramatic.

 

 

I bet if I was talking about the virtues of my 1080p HDMI Coleco core in the Phoenix thread, it would've been nuked from orbit in literally seconds.

 

Absolutely not because your discussion points are always constructive, well thought out, and helpful, not to mention have years of experience backing them up. I actually use your 1080p HDMI Coleco core quite often and comments in that thread from someone who has legitimate experience in the field would have been more than welcome, assuming of course you weren't there just to be a troll, which I cannot see you doing.

 

Hope that clears up a few things!

[opcode]

I just want to clear up a couple of things before this devolves even further....

 

 

No post was deleted, in fact, it is right here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/280280-introducing-project-pegasus-at-prge-and-retroworldexpo-2018/?p=4110351

 

Eduardo doesn't even have moderator ability to delete posts in that thread.

 

 

 

Neither ability or intention. In fact I took the advise and changed plans. And contacted Kevtris to discuss his suggestion.

[Reaperman]

I bet if I was talking about the virtues of my 1080p HDMI Coleco core in the Phoenix thread, it would've been nuked from orbit in literally seconds.

 

I saw you down in the browsing list a bunch, and was kind of hoping you'd chime in around page 10 or so.

 

I stayed well clear of being trolly. Still, no way I'm sticking my neck out in the coleco forum anymore.

koolaid-drinking posts only, just like with jaguar. Life's too short to swim against that kind of current.

[kevtris]

 

I saw you down in the browsing list a bunch, and was kind of hoping you'd chime in around page 10 or so.

 

I stayed well clear of being trolly. Still, no way I'm sticking my neck out in the coleco forum anymore.

koolaid-drinking posts only, just like with jaguar. Life's too short to swim against that kind of current.

I didn't post anything because I just assumed it would've been deleted with extreme prejudice. I had plenty I wanted to say, but I would've just been labelled a troll and a hater, and didn't want "competition" <cough>. Obviously none of that is true. I ended up talking to bmack on dischord and he was nice about it.

[spoonman]

I can see you really dislike doing some fact-checking before typing. First of all, the target was $230,000, and secondly, that amount was meant to cover ALL manufacturing aspects (electronic sourcing and assembly, as well as shipping fees IIRC) not just the injection molding. The metal mold for the casing is indeed very expensive to make, but not THAT expensive.

 

Pardon me.. I didn't know I was on the stand here.. OK it's $230K not $250K.... If $20K would have made a difference, it would have been important. Let's just call it "almost a quarter of a million dollars" and be done with it.

 

$30 shipping was mentioned on the Kickstarter comments section, and yes I fact check when it matters.

Either way.. $30 or FREE, it should have been posted on the main Kickstarter page.

 

And as far as development costs, injection molding, and more for an FPGA system. It's not really a complete mystery thanks to Brian being forthcoming with his development of the AVS.

 

 

 

Now CollectorVision is doing a regular pre-order process via their web site, where people can pre-pay via Paypal (something you can't do on Kickstarter) and this should get them enough money to at least cover the cost of injection molding, and reach the final revision of the electronics. Once the system is available for purchase, more people will come and buy it over time. So in the end it's just going to take longer than expected for them to reach their 1000 unit target milestone.

Their page says the Phoenix is IN STOCK , and you can place your order right no, but is it "in stock"? Or are we pre-ordering now and then waiting for them to ship it when they finish production.. Sort of like with Watermelon's Paprium then?

 

 

Someone who says he is a fan of the ColecoVision but turns his nose up at the ColecoVision homebrew scene is not a fan, he is simply a purist.

 

Um.. I'm not sure that's how it works. I'm not a fan of the ColecoVision because I don't buy overpriced, and illegal ports of MSX & Sega SG-1000 games, or homebrew for the CV. If you don't think someone who has owned a ColecoVision since 1982, playing it religiously as a kid, all the way until 2018, then I don't know what to tell you. Over the past 36 years I've purchased nearly 100 CV games, many CIB/mint, several CV consoles, 2 of each Expansion Module, an Adam, I've subscribed to, and have collected all of the ColecoVision Experience magazines, but I guess I'm not a fan.

 

 

Ah, so you're not only a purist, but you're a perfectionist as well? During the Kickstarter campaign, several people got vocal about the 720p thing, and guess what: The CollectorVision people were listening. Now I'm not saying I know that they intend to upgrade their ColecoVision core to output at 720p (I don't have any insider knowledge of the Phoenix project) but it can be reasonably assumed that they will at least look into it. Time will tell if 720p output will be offered down the line. But for now I'd like to point out that when you played the ColecoVision when you were a kid (or so I would assume) your TV was a CRT (probably with a slightly fuzzy picture) and you enjoyed playing ColecoVision games without complaining about the picture quality. Why can't you enjoy it now on a modern TV?

I've already stated why having a 480p signal on an HDTV might be a problem above...

"not all HD displays have decent built in upscalers. So that could be an issue."

and Kevtris has also chimed in, and his word is the final word here...so there is no reason to discuss that further. If they could do HD, they certainly should have had that worked out BEFORE starting the Kickstarter.

 

I also require my clones to handle basic accessories which the original can pull off. In this case, the official CV Expansion Modules, such as the Atari VCS, and Roller Controller.

Like I said, a purist, and a perfectionist.

Yes...if it can't even do what an original ColecoVision from 36 years ago can pull off, what are we doing here? I'm not a perfectionist, Analogue and Kevtris are however and that's what matters.

 

So like I was saying. I was very interested in the Phoenix and had it been more of what I was looking for (HD output, 100% compatibility with all Expansion Modules, scanlines option, a lower price $150 or so) I would have more than likely bought one.

 

Going back to my original point.. I'd love to get the ability to play one of my favorite video game systems, the ColecoVision, on an affordable Analogue system (Super NT or Mega Sg], I hope I get the chance to try out Kevin's awesome ColecoVision core.

[Pixelboy]

Pardon me.. I didn't know I was on the stand here.. OK it's $230K not $250K.... If $20K would have made a difference, it would have been important. Let's just call it "almost a quarter of a million dollars" and be done with it.

 

$30 shipping was mentioned on the Kickstarter comments section, and yes I fact check when it matters.

Either way.. $30 or FREE, it should have been posted on the main Kickstarter page.

You're probably right about that.

 

 

And as far as development costs, injection molding, and more for an FPGA system. It's not really a complete mystery thanks to Brian being forthcoming with his development of the AVS.

 

 

 

Their page says the Phoenix is IN STOCK , and you can place your order right no, but is it "in stock"? Or are we pre-ordering now and then waiting for them to ship it when they finish production.. Sort of like with Watermelon's Paprium then?

I could have sworn I saw a July 2019 ship date somewhere when I pre-ordered the Phoenix. Maybe it was during checkout...

 

 

Um.. I'm not sure that's how it works. I'm not a fan of the ColecoVision because I don't buy overpriced, and illegal ports of MSX & Sega SG-1000 games, or homebrew for the CV. If you don't think someone who has owned a ColecoVision since 1982, playing it religiously as a kid, all the way until 2018, then I don't know what to tell you. Over the past 36 years I've purchased nearly 100 CV games, many CIB/mint, several CV consoles, 2 of each Expansion Module, an Adam, I've subscribed to, and have collected all of the ColecoVision Experience magazines, but I guess I'm not a fan.

Okay, I'm man enough to admit I was completely wrong about that. You're definitely a Colecovision fan. Sorry.

 

 

I've already stated why having a 480p signal on an HDTV might be a problem above...

"not all HD displays have decent built in upscalers. So that could be an issue."

and Kevtris has also chimed in, and his word is the final word here...so there is no reason to discuss that further. If they could do HD, they certainly should have had that worked out BEFORE starting the Kickstarter.

I wasn't aware just how much of an issue 480p was in relation to modern TVs until Kevtris came along and explained it clearly. I tend to ignore such issues when I play unless it's truly terrible (I just play the game, you know) but if it's really that bad, then I hope the CollectorVision team will look into it.

 

Yes...if it can't even do what an original ColecoVision from 36 years ago can pull off, what are we doing here? I'm not a perfectionist, Analogue and Kevtris are however and that's what matters.

I can't disagree with that, except that I would expect the Phoenix to be compatible with the Roller Controller and Expansion Module #2 via the two DB9 connectors on the front, and Atari 2600 game support is built in so the Expansion Module #1 is not really needed here, although the issue of a cartridge adaptor that plays all 2600 carts, even the "special" ones is still up in the air. I know Brian has done some schematic work on that cart adaptor...

 

 

So like I was saying. I was very interested in the Phoenix and had it been more of what I was looking for (HD output, 100% compatibility with all Expansion Modules, scanlines option, a lower price $150 or so) I would have more than likely bought one.

 

Going back to my original point.. I'd love to get the ability to play one of my favorite video game systems, the ColecoVision, on an affordable Analogue system (Super NT or Mega Sg], I hope I get the chance to try out Kevin's awesome ColecoVision core.

As it was mentioned by others before, the pin-out on the controller ports is not quite the same between the Genesis and the pre-NES consoles, so I'm not sure it's even possible to use ColecoVision controllers on the Mega SG. If not, we'd be limited to the six buttons on the Genesis controller, although it would be okay for most CV games that make minimal use of the keypad, I suppose.

[TPR]

Their page says the Phoenix is IN STOCK , and you can place your order right no, but is it "in stock"? Or are we pre-ordering now and then waiting for them to ship it when they finish production..

 

I think it's pretty clear...

 

[Bmack36]

I wasn't going to say anything about the system, but since people are talking about it here, I might as well.

 

I think 480p only was a mistake- TVs and monitors have poor scaling and when I am testing video, there's a really obvious difference between 720p, 1080p and 480p. The latter looks blurry, like your glasses are dirty. When you do a direct A/B compare, going from 480p to even 720p seems like you've cleared the fog off a window. All the hostility against people who brought up the inconvenient truth that it was 480p only was bad for the cause. Calling such people "trolls" was disingenuous at best.

 

It was fully reasonable to ask questions and raise concerns about it, and beating those people down for no reason other than their opinion was unprofessional and poor form.

 

Also, showing Atari 2600 running on it, but only in VGA form and not HDMI was sort of deceptive, because there's a whole frame buffer system that has to be created before 2600 can be displayed over HDMI (unless you stick to games that output a single scanline count, and/or try to get your monitor to accept different frame rates, and don't mind it blacking out every time it changes). The system has no VGA port (though technically one could be added via the expansion port) so showing it running on a video output the board doesn't have was as Dave Jones of eevblog says.. "a little how ya doin'".

 

Speaking of frame rate, I don't think the system outputs an exact 60.0Hz frame rate either since it's basically raw digital VGA f18a video being transcoded into HDMI, and I don't think this outputs an exact 60.0Hz frame. If you do not output 60.0 exactly, there are plenty of monitors and TVs that will choke on it and give a black screen or similar. When making a product that will be used on potentially thousands of different TV and monitor models, it must conform to the HDMI standard as closely as possible. You MUST borrow or buy an HDMI analyzer to ensure compatibility.

 

I am not knocking their system or the creators of it at all, and I would not have said anything but it was brought up here. This is all my opinion and everyone is free to disagree with it :-)

We are still evaluating 720p so nothing is final as far as resolution goes (we have also updated the store to reflect the current display resolution and potential future resolution and it has been that way since Nov 8th).

 

The video for the Atari 2600 was over VGA as the core it was ported from was VGA. The HDMI support is still being developed. Kevtris had mentioned the issue of framerate previously and we have been working to implement the necessary frame buffer to make sure this will work.

 

We also have sent the system to someone who has a HDMI analyzer, to make sure that our system does not have any issues.

[Bmack36]

Their page says the Phoenix is IN STOCK , and you can place your order right no, but is it "in stock"? Or are we pre-ordering now and then waiting for them to ship it when they finish production.. Sort of like with Watermelon's Paprium then?

 

 

 

As pointed out above it does say pre-order and gives the estimated shipping timeframe based on the options selected, as the early access systems ship before the rest. The timeframes are also listed in the product description as well. If you didn't select a product or look in the description, then I could see how this could be confusing, so I updated the product Name to include "Pre-order" as well.

[atm94404]

I am always happy to receive well thought out constructive criticism, and I do not need to be protected from wrongthink. There was a lot of mister talk in this thread awhile back but I didn't say anything or complain about it because people want to talk about it. It's like going to a Coke convention and then talking about how Pepsi is so much better, and you shouldn't drink Coke. I bet if I was talking about the virtues of my 1080p HDMI Coleco core in the Phoenix thread, it would've been nuked from orbit in literally seconds.

I was wondering how you felt about MiSTer. I own a SuperNT and pre-ordered a Mega SG, but I did recently decide to dabble with the MiSTer as sort of an entry DIY project. I don't think they are really competition because even though I do know how to solder and I am a software engineer, MiSTer is right at the edge of the "my time is worth more than this, I should just buy a premade thing". The thing that put me over the edge in terms of wanting to set one up was actually that I saw some nice 3D printed enclosures. I'm always looking for projects to justify my printer purchase. There's only so many hooks and controller stands you can print for friends and a sexy custom MiSTer case was the perfect Saturday project.

Anyway, I really feel your products don't compete with MiSTer the same way the Apple IIe (my first computer) really wasn't a competitor with say a Heath Kit. For MiSTer, I doubt I would bother with the Genesis and SNES cores and instead find the oddball, one-off cores more intriguing (like the Altair).

There was one possibility for the MiSTer though- the Sega CD. I realize that there are technical AND legal reasons why Sega CD support would be problematic for the Mega SG, but I wondered if the MiSTer with an IO board could act as a Sega CD attachment for the Mega SG. That way you'd get the best of both worlds and given how Sega CD prices keep going up on eBay and the hardware keeps failing (even the replacement lasers are getting pricey), it seems like a potential solution for the hardcore Sega fan who really wants Sega CD games on their Mega SG but with the convenience of say loading from an sd card. Just a thought.

[ijor]

Also, showing Atari 2600 running on it, but only in VGA form and not HDMI was sort of deceptive, because there's a whole frame buffer system that has to be created before 2600 can be displayed over HDMI (unless you stick to games that output a single scanline count, and/or try to get your monitor to accept different frame rates, and don't mind it blacking out every time it changes).

...

If you do not output 60.0 exactly, there are plenty of monitors and TVs that will choke on it and give a black screen or similar. When making a product that will be used on potentially thousands of different TV and monitor models, it must conform to the HDMI standard as closely as possible. You MUST borrow or buy an HDMI analyzer to ensure compatibility.

 

Many monitors are indeed very strict about the HDMI specifications, but I believe that nowadays most do not. We found that most monitors accept an almost arbitrary pixel clock rate (within a certain range, of course), and then will happily accept a wide range of refresh rates as a result of the different pixel clock. Also most monitors, actually almost all the ones we tested, accept small variations to the video frame format such one extra scanline or cycle per scanline. This allows you to keep the "virtual console" video output and the actual HDMI video output in step lock. As long as you are in step lock you don't need a frame buffer and can even implement a full fledged scaler with just a scan doubler, buffering a couple of scan lines in the worst case. And of course, an extra benefit of not using a frame buffer, is the reduced latency.

 

I can understand that a commercial product, especially if it carries the HDMI logo and have to be HDMI compliant, can't afford going out of specs. Homebrew products can afford that "luxury" without caring too much if this won't work on a small number of monitors. Ideally you can make this configurable, so that you can fall back (or even be the default) to output video at the strict HDMI standard; and then you can have the best of both worlds.

 

PS: I have no idea about which system you are referring and have no intention to involve myself in that debate. I am just replying to the technical side because I think it is really quite interesting.

Edited November 24, 2018 by ijor

[spoonman]

You're probably right about that. I could have sworn I saw a July 2019 ship date somewhere when I pre-ordered the Phoenix. Maybe it was during checkout... Okay, I'm man enough to admit I was completely wrong about that. You're definitely a Colecovision fan. Sorry.

No worries.

 

I would expect the Phoenix to be compatible with the Roller Controller and Expansion Module #2 via the two DB9 connectors on the front, and Atari 2600 game support is built in so the Expansion Module #1 is not really needed here, although the issue of a cartridge adaptor that plays all 2600 carts, even the "special" ones is still up in the air. I know Brian has done some schematic work on that cart adaptor...

 

The thing about the Colecovision Roller Controller is that it requires you to connect it to the original CV power supply. It actually piggybacks with that. So unless the Phoenix uses the exact same sized and style power port than it's not going to work.

 

 

If I'm spending $200+ on a ColecoVision clone, I would definitely like it to play everything that my '82 Colecovision system can handle.

Including being able to use original Atari VCS carts. The Expansion Module #1's are dirt cheap right now too. I picked up a couple extras for less than $20 each. Mint shape too.

 

 

As it was mentioned by others before, the pin-out on the controller ports is not quite the same between the Genesis and the pre-NES consoles, so I'm not sure it's even possible to use ColecoVision controllers on the Mega SG. If not, we'd be limited to the six buttons on the Genesis controller, although it would be okay for most CV games that make minimal use of the keypad, I suppose.

It would be based on the type of logic encoder. I honestly don't know how the FPGA systems interoperates this data, but I'm sure it's pretty versatile. At the very least we know the Genesis controller works great with the Colecovision encoder. Perhaps some of the other needed keys [1], [*], [#], etc could be triggered with a button combo. It's been a while since I've used a Gen controller on my CV, but I recall pressing a diagonal to start a single player game, and another diagonal to restart = [*] on the CV controller.

 

 

I think it's pretty clear...

 

phoenix preorder.jpg

No, not really. Or at least it wasn't on Thursday night. As I mentioned, it said IN STOCK next to the CollectorVision Phoenix order button when I was putting the order through last night. Now it has obviously been changed.

[Bmack36]

As pointed out above it does say pre-order and gives the estimated shipping timeframe based on the options selected, as the early access systems ship before the rest. The timeframes are also listed in the product description as well. If you didn't select a product or look in the description, then I could see how this could be confusing, so I updated the product Name to include "Pre-order" as well.

Spoonman: I'll requote this in case you didn't see it. The shipping times were listed in multiple locations. As I said above, since this apparently caused some confusion, I updated the product page to be more clear. The reason it says in stock is because there are limited quantity variations of the product like the Ultimate CollectorVision Phoenix and Limited Edition Adam case. Once those quantities run out, those variations will read out-of-stock.

Edited November 24, 2018 by Bmack36

[SegaSnatcher]

When you realize the Mega SG is still 5 months away.

At least its something to look forward to. I have Red Dead Redemption 2 to keep me occupied lol.

Gonna be glorious to see Genesis games running in crisp 1080p on my large Plasma.

Edited November 24, 2018 by SegaSnatcher

[NE146]

When you realize the Mega SG is still 5 months away.

 

Gonna be glorious to see Genesis games running in crisp 1080p on my large Plasma.

 

Yeah I was just thinking that as a launch buyer for the Genesis and a consistent buyer of its games, I really have barely revisited its game library since they faded from their heyday. I still have a Genesis and also an X7 Everdrive, but I've probably put a few minutes into it max. Looking forward to touching base again this Spring.

[retro_fan]

@kevtris Do you think there might be any potential use for the Field-Programmable Analog Array (FPAA) technology when it comes to retrohardware projects (such as yours) in the future?

[phoenixdownita]

Meanwhile it seems our SuperNt/SD2SNES combo will be pleased with S-DD1:

http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=8357.msg64962#msg64962

http://retrorgb.com/sd2snes-gets-s-dd1-special-chip-support.html

(not officially released yet)

 

EDIT: link to "beta" build

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/422902949157535764/516766203121893387/sd2snes.rar

[spoonman]

Meanwhile it seems our SuperNt/SD2SNES combo will be pleased with S-DD1:

http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=8357.msg64962#msg64962

http://retrorgb.com/sd2snes-gets-s-dd1-special-chip-support.html

(not officially released yet)

 

EDIT: link to "beta" build

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/422902949157535764/516766203121893387/sd2snes.rar

Nice to see this make it out.

 

Any idea if the fpga_sdd1.bit, fpga_gsu.bit, fpga_sa1.bit, fpga_obc1.bit, fpga_cx4.bit files can be added to the savestate build?

[Andromeda Stardust]

A purist? Hardly. What gives you that idea? I own dozens of system clones, including the RetroUSB AVS, Super NT, SNS-101, the Sg on the way, and more.

SNS-101 is hardly a clone. It is based on the same 1-chip design as late release original snes systems. I have a 1-chip snes model 1, and it's great. I wouldn't classify the Genesis 3 as a "clone" either, despite not being compatible with SMS games, Genie, Virtua Racing, or 32x.

 

I have also preordered the trifecta of fpga consoles (avs, super nt, mega sg).

[vanfanel]

Hey guys, what cable do you use for Super NT audio? My HDMI's audio output is not that good, so I need a way to get audio directly from the console without passing though the TV.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Many monitors are indeed very strict about the HDMI specifications, but I believe that nowadays most do not. We found that most monitors accept an almost arbitrary pixel clock rate (within a certain range, of course), and then will happily accept a wide range of refresh rates as a result of the different pixel clock. Also most monitors, actually almost all the ones we tested, accept small variations to the video frame format such one extra scanline or cycle per scanline. This allows you to keep the "virtual console" video output and the actual HDMI video output in step lock. As long as you are in step lock you don't need a frame buffer and can even implement a full fledged scaler with just a scan doubler, buffering a couple of scan lines in the worst case. And of course, an extra benefit of not using a frame buffer, is the reduced latency.

 

I can understand that a commercial product, especially if it carries the HDMI logo and have to be HDMI compliant, can't afford going out of specs. Homebrew products can afford that "luxury" without caring too much if this won't work on a small number of monitors. Ideally you can make this configurable, so that you can fall back (or even be the default) to output video at the strict HDMI standard; and then you can have the best of both worlds.

 

PS: I have no idea about which system you are referring and have no intention to involve myself in that debate. I am just replying to the technical side because I think it is really quite interesting.

Ijor, feel free to do what you like, and accept the consequences when paying customers initiate returns and/or post angry rants to social media / youtube about black screens and "unusable signal" warnings.

 

I think what you will find is that while many displays can and do accept "off spec" analog signals to a degree, they become much less fault tolerant over digital. We have standards for a reason. Those standards are as follows:

 

Standard:

60.00 Hz p/i (all displays)

59.94 Hz p/i (all displays)

50.00 Hz p/i (all pal compatible and some ntsc displays)

 

Less common:

24.00 Hz p (film)

23.976 Hz p (Bluray / DVD NTSC native progressive scan)s

 

Rarely used:

48.00 Hz p

47.952 Hz p (Some films such as Hobbit were mastered at double speed 48 Hz frame rate; rarely available in home video applications)

 

Additionally, most "widescreen" displays accept the following resolutions:

 

640x480 (vga), 720x480 i/p (dvd)

1280x720p (standard hd)

1920x1080 i/p (full hd)

 

And uhd or "4k" displays accept the additional resolutions:

 

2560x1440

3840x2160 (uhd)

 

As well pc monitors accept most any resolution thrown at them including legacy 4:3 display modes. Here's some commonly encountered ones:

 

320x200 (cga, depreciated)

320x240 (qvga, depreciated)

 

640x480 (ntsc vga)

720x480 (ntsc dvd)

720x576 (pal dvd)

768x576 (pal vga)

800x600 (svga)

1024x768 (xga)

1152x864

1280x800 (wxga; 16:10 budget notebook pcs)

1280x1024 (sxga; 5:4 flat panel monitors predating widescreen era)

1366x768 (16:9 native resolution of most mid-2000s era "720p" tv sets)

1400x1050

1600x1200 (uxga; 4:3 large lcd monitors)

1680x1050 (wsxga+; 16:10 common notebook pcs)

1920x1080 (16:9 full hd)

1920x1200 (wuxga; 16:10 large lcd monitors)

2560x1080 (64:27 ultra wide or "21x9")

 

Try bending the clock sync speed beyond .1%, skipping clock cycles, scanlines, etc over a digital hdmi connection and very quickly you will find most displays will go black. Just because analog scan upscalers put up with off spec 240p / 480i signals, and vga monitors will sync to about anything, doesn't mean the same holds true over hdmi.

[vanfanel]

Another question I would like to ask you guys: I am thinking about getting an SD2SNES for my much much loved Super NT, since it's possible that SuperFX is not implemented on the console firmware itself, but I'd like to get the cheaper chineese clone by Jackdiy. Do you know it it could somehow damage the console? I am talking about the Jackdiy model (http://www.jackdiy.cn/). Is it safe for my Super NT?

 

Thanks!

[Kaide]

Ijor, feel free to do what you like, and accept the consequences when paying customers initiate returns and/or post angry rants to social media / youtube about black screens and "unusable signal" warnings.

 

I think what you will find is that while many displays can and do accept "off spec" analog signals to a degree, they become much less fault tolerant over digital. We have standards for a reason.

I’ll just add that in my case, I use my Super NT over the original now because of the issues with HDMI. The OSSC output from an SNES isn’t compatible with my TV/AVR setup that are both about a year old, and the Framemeister I have seems to also not be working, but I don’t know if it broke in the move or is outputting an odd signal.

 

So I agree that if you go this route, you will get complaints. And those complaints will also turn to lost sales as folks don’t know if their TV/AVR is compatible or not and skip out entirely.

[spoonman]

SNS-101 is hardly a clone. It is based on the same 1-chip design as late release original snes systems. I have a 1-chip snes model 1, and it's great. I wouldn't classify the Genesis 3 as a "clone" either, despite not being compatible with SMS games, Genie, Virtua Racing, or 32x.

 

I have also preordered the trifecta of fpga consoles (avs, super nt, mega sg).

 

I consider the SNS-101 to be an "Official Clone" of the SNS-001. A cost saving measure for Nintendo, which obviously cuts corners. It causes glitching with several games. Demon's Crest, Super Ghouls N Ghosts, Soul Blazer, Aladdin, which all have some on-screen garbage, while Air Strike Patrol is missing the ground shadow. The SNS-101 also lacks RGB & Svideo output, as well as having white levels which are washed out.

I barely consider the Genesis 3 to be a Sega product, but I won't get started on that.

[RupanIII]

At this point all I really want is one large fpga in a nice box with say a PCI Express 4X slot or whatever it would take as a cartridge port with cartridge Port connector adapters for each of the classic systems that plug into that I do not want to have 7 classic system-specific boxes laying around all with roughly the same Hardware inside I rather just have one bit of hardware and all these separate cores and adapters