How To Narrow Down The Number Of Systems You Collect For?

[Keatah]

Yup. Emulation for those that want the most sophisticated and elegant solution possible. Flashcarts for those that want some semblance of original hardware. And reality dictates the balance can be anywhere in between.

 

I did the garage thing at one time many years ago. And recently disposed of it all. And I DO NOT miss it one fucking iota. Not one. The space consumption, the maintenance, the uncomfortable off-season weather.. Good riddance to it all! And in exchange for going with emulation you get great configurability and incredible reliability and other subtle amenities.

 

Right now the wife is hard up to get the last of the junk garages cleaned up. This will reclaim extra space to be used for some other project or something.

[Schizophretard]

Classic video games are a mere conduit and memory aid for experiencing past happy times. But beware, they also work opposite that, too, and can make you recall a sense of dread.

I win both ways then because I was born a schizo full of dread. I didn't develop this charming depressed bastard personality. I always had it because I'm old school 80's screwed up. Anyway, for me it is kind of the opposite. When I was a kid I was looking forward to growing up to have my own money to buy the games my parents would say no to or to buy games I had to trade for other games. So, I would have to get rid of my collection to use as a conduit and memory aid for the past because then I would be back to looking forward to getting it back again someday.

[Skippy B. Coyote]

A lot of people seem to be recommending the flash cart route, but I don't know... Flash carts are just totally unappealing to me. Don't get me wrong, I'm really glad to hear that so many of you have found more enjoyment from your gaming and collecting by using flash carts, I just don't think they're for me.

 

To explain my dislike for using flash carts a little more properly, allow me to make an analogy. Imagine you're a music collector who likes collecting CDs. You enjoy going to the used disc shop, searching around for new treasures, and bringing them home to pop in your CD player and listen to while you flip through the booklet, admire the album art, and so on. Now imagine someone suggesting that you should ditch your CD collection and just download all the music you like from torrents online for free. Sure, you'd save some money and shelf space that way, but you'd be missing out on the whole experience of collecting. No more hunting around dusty old bins looking for hidden treasures, no more holding the real disc in your hands and feeling the paper booklet under your fingers while you flip though it and read the little tidbits of information about the band and song lyrics, and so on. The music still sounds the same, but the entire experience of being a collector is lost in the process.

 

That should give you a better idea of how I feel about flash carts and emulation. You do get to play the game, on the real console no less if you use a flash cart, but the more intangible experience of being a collector and the enjoyment that I personally get from it just isn't there.

 

At this point I'm sticking with my plan of just working on one or two collections every season, and over the past week I've picked up half a dozen new Game Boy Color games for $1 to $4 each and have been really enjoying playing them all. I feel fortunate that the systems I like to collect for the most are all pretty cheap to collect for in general, so that's another reason I'm not too interested in getting any flash carts. Let's face it, good flash carts are really expensive and when the overwhelming majority of the games you like playing cost a dollar or two to pick up and don't take up much space in your home to store there's not much incentive to shell out a hundred bucks or more for a flash cart; especially if you're not too fond of flash carts to begin with.

 

I hope that explained my reasoning a bit better. I'm still really glad to hear that so many of you have found greater enjoyment of your hobbies through flash carts and emulation, because the most important thing about any hobby is that it is something you find fun and satisfying to do, but I just don't think flash carts or emulation are for me.

[Schizophretard]

What about flash carts for portable systems? That gives them an extra practical use because it makes your portable collection truly portable. Then when you go back home your Game Boy games are still there in their cases. It is like having a stereo for home and an MP3 player for the road. Then as you are playing games on your flash cart you can decide which ones are the most worthy to have cases to go back home to.

[Skippy B. Coyote]

What about flash carts for portable systems? That gives them an extra practical use because it makes your portable collection truly portable. Then when you go back home your Game Boy games are still there in their cases. It is like having a stereo for home and an MP3 player for the road. Then as you are playing games on your flash cart you can decide which ones are the most worthy to have cases to go back home to.

A reasonable argument, but the case I carry my Game Boy Color around in holds 6 cartridges + 1 in the system and I don't travel (for medical reasons) so I can't see myself ever being in a situation where I'd really want to have more than 7 of the games in my library with me at a time. I generally only focus my attention on two or three games each week anyway, so the other 4 or 5 in the carrying case just sit there most of the time.

 

It is a good argument in favor of flash carts, just not one that would have much value to me personally. The only reason I could ever see myself potentially getting a flash cart is to play Shantae, since I already own every other game I could want for a portable system I collect for that is truly expensive, but even then I'd rather just save up the money to buy the real cart if I ever decided that it was a game I really wanted to play.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Jin

[SiLic0ne t0aD]

Why not both? I have flashcarts but I still collect the games too.. best of both worlds, nice to have options. I like mp3's but I still buy Cd's and Vinyl

[Keatah]

It's all about sensible balance.

[Skippy B. Coyote]

Why not both? I have flashcarts but I still collect the games too.. best of both worlds, nice to have options. I like mp3's but I still buy Cd's and Vinyl

 

 

It's an issue of cost really. For the price of a single Everdrive I could buy 10 or 20 games I'd really like to own and play, and I know I'd appreciate and enjoy owning the real cartridges a lot more than a way to play bootleg ROM images. I might be willing to try a flash cart (even though I still think I'd pretty much never use it) if good ones weren't prohibitively expensive, but for the cost of a single high quality flash cart I could buy a lot of other things that I'd rather own instead.

[SiLic0ne t0aD]

I can respect that.

[omegadot]

 

 

It's an issue of cost really. For the price of a single Everdrive I could buy 10 or 20 games I'd really like to own and play, and I know I'd appreciate and enjoy owning the real cartridges a lot more than a way to play bootleg ROM images. I might be willing to try a flash cart (even though I still think I'd pretty much never use it) if good ones weren't prohibitively expensive, but for the cost of a single high quality flash cart I could buy a lot of other things that I'd rather own instead.

 

I guess that depends on your system / games of choice. I know a few 16-bit era RPGs can knock the equation in favor of the flashcart real darn quick. Like I could buy Earthbound and Chrono Trigger carts or I could get a flash cart, a babysitter, a bottle of booze and a pizza.

[bretthorror]

Really, every collector literally owes it to himself to either have a flashcart and/or a PC/console dedicated to emulation just to play imports, fan translations, homebrews, prototypes and stupidly rare games. The fact that it will also play everything else is an added bonus, even to someone who doesn't really want to go that route and would prefer to play the real thing. I totally understand anyone wanting to collect real games, I do not understand how a well versed collector wouldn't want flashcarts or emulation for all the reasons above. If you'd rather spend the $100 from a flashcart on real carts, that's totally understandable. I myself really don't think a flashcart is worth the money over plain emulation. But if you have the homebrew channel already on your Wii, there's no reason not to fire all the classic libraries on there and give it a whirl to supplement your current collection. When you're in the middle of an intense game, believe me, you're not even going to remember you're not on original hardware.

[Ransom]

It's all about sensible balance.

 

Exactly. And we all have a different sensible balance, based on available time, money, and space.

 

For me, my collections need to fit (neatly!) into one spare bedroom and the attached walk-in closet, along with a couple of shelving units in the basement. Actually, I want to get rid of the basement stuff. I don't want to own anything that's stored away (even the spares for "just in case something breaks"). Everything should be right there, available to be used, without looking cluttered.

 

Edited to add: By "collections" I meant all of them -- video games, computers, novels, RPGs...everything I collect needs to fit neatly into the mentioned space.

[Keatah]

If I don't control the collection it gets out of hand and controls me. That's why I lean hard toward emulation. Everything is immediately available. And "new" games can be added in a flash! No pun intended.

 

We're just getting into cleaning out the 3rd pile of stuff. It's mainly all Apple III stuff. And the 4th and final pile is all ebay-bought Apple II material. Stuff I purchased and never played with.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

 

It's an issue of cost really. For the price of a single Everdrive I could buy 10 or 20 games I'd really like to own and play, and I know I'd appreciate and enjoy owning the real cartridges a lot more than a way to play bootleg ROM images. I might be willing to try a flash cart (even though I still think I'd pretty much never use it) if good ones weren't prohibitively expensive, but for the cost of a single high quality flash cart I could buy a lot of other things that I'd rather own instead.

Depends on the system. You'd be hard pressed to find 10 or 20 must have non-sports titles for the price of an NES or SNES Everdrive. Sad part with SNES is some of the best games for the system use expansion chips the flash carts can't emulate.

[tsquad]

I'm experiencing the same issues. I have 10 consoles including current gen ones and I just can't afford to collect for all 10 at the same time lol. Some of which I never play or don't even have hooked up or have no sentimental connection with. I just have them because I think they are cool or to say I have them. I'm thinking of ditching my Genesis as I have ps2/Dreamcast versions of almost all the Genesis games I have, and never use it.

 

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

[Keatah]

True. Collecting all carts, rare items, memorabilia, and documentation can cost a lot. Throw in mint consoles and mint everything else and you're in the 10's of thousands of dollars per system.

[Andromeda Stardust]

True. Collecting all carts, rare items, memorabilia, and documentation can cost a lot. Throw in mint consoles and mint everything else and you're in the 10's of thousands of dollars per system.

Tens of thousands??? Not if you settle for loose carts and common (but good) titles and don't buy every crappy rare game that exists...

[Keatah]

OK 10K might be high. agree.

[jfitzenr]

I think the biggest thing is deciding if you want to be a 'collector' or not, for each console or even entirely.

 

As far as earlier consoles/computers, I think we can all agree that we can get perhaps 90%+ of the experience through emulation (legal or otherwise), flash carts, modern equivalents, etc. So what it really comes down to is... are you a collector?

 

I looked back at my collection, which I accumulated almost entirely over the years through just... accumulation. Not collecting. And I realized... I'm not a collector. I did not get $500 worth of enjoyment out of owning Earthbound CIB; I got the same enjoyment from the VC release. I personally got rid of tons of stuff, and tbh I'm thankful for that.

 

That said, what I realized is that I am NOT a collector, and don't REALLY have that mindset. However, I will say the most important thing I ever have gone through whether it's video game collecting or just, general life (and I know it's been said earlier in this thread...)

 

pick a focus and dive in! I had a shotgun-spread of systems and games, and it was mostly because I enjoyed playing them (and having a ridiculous setup of fifteen consoles into two tvs) but it's much more satisfying to pick one thing you really love (one system, one year, one genre, whatever!) and dive in. As always ymmv, this is my own experience. But for instance - right now, I'd rather have say, a TG16 and a full TG16 collection than 15 systems and 50 games for each. (I don't have either, so)

 

Another thing I really asked myself was the 'original hardware' question. Especially pre-snes. I LOVE having original hardware but... original hardware sucks. I really loved playing Tapper on CV until I realized that the joysticks were always dodgy and broken, and I'd rather log 20 hours on Dragon Warrior 2 if I know for sure I can back up the SRM instead of hearing the horrifying 'your battery sucks!' noise when I power it on. Granted some stuff is worthless without original hardware or controllers but again that's a question to ask yourself.

 

I think the big thing is to ask yourself; why do I have this? Why do I want more? If it's because you love the system, the game, the nostalgia, or whatever, GO FOR IT! Do not pass Go, dive right in! However, if you don't have that slam dunk answer, maybe your best bet is to offload some stuff, and find the system/console/etc. that you DO have the slam-dunk for.

[Keatah]

Yup.

 

I just do Apple II, Ti-59, and TRS-80 Pocket Computers 1, 2, & 4. The rest of everything 70's, 80's, and 90's is done through emulation. A manageable state of affairs. And since it's controllable I can make the physical part of the stash rich and not full of filler material.

 

Even as we speak I'm offloading duplicates and Apple /// material. The wife just sold off her Vax stuff. And we're raking in the dough!

 

 

Another thing I really asked myself was the 'original hardware' question. Especially pre-snes. I LOVE having original hardware but... original hardware sucks. I really loved playing Tapper on CV until I realized that the joysticks were always dodgy and broken, and I'd rather log 20 hours on Dragon Warrior 2 if I know for sure I can back up the SRM instead of hearing the horrifying 'your battery sucks!' noise when I power it on. Granted some stuff is worthless without original hardware or controllers but again that's a question to ask yourself.

Original hardware is cool, sure, many people like it, I enjoy the historical aura and how they did things back then. Reminiscing how I played when videogames were a new thing. The warmth of family and friends camping out in wood paneled wall-to-wall carpeted basement on a blustery stormy winter day - with school out on winter break. Reading an Atari catalog, speculating what makes the VCS work. Studying and learning about space and astronomy. Eating frozen dinners.

But, let me tell you, I would never ever ever ever want to go back to original hardware for my gaming mainstay. Not in a million years. Let me tell you why.

If you use it regularly you need to either pamper it or have some sort of maintenance plan in place. Switches, connectors, controllers, rf cables, ac power adaptors, cart slots and chip slots, intermittent solder joints, capacitors, and other just slightly out of tolerance components. All of it will need attention at some point. And the CRT thing, I personally can't stand adjusting them and dealing with environmental changes which un-adjusts them. I hated that since day one. The effort of keeping it all clean, supreme, and pristine. That, too, is thorn I don't wanna deal with. Neither does the wife.

And now, seriously, genuinely.. After playing on real hardware recently, occasionally, this past year - I prefer that my Game Program ROMS stay in the "digital domain". From storage to playing & displaying them. The signal is 100% digital from the prodigious ROM code storage array - through the simulated virtual CPU - all the way to the dot-addressable LCD. Including the marvelous synthetic CRT & NTSC effects. The Hi-Fi sound, too, just breathtaking. That's nice. All coming together, working together, catapulting you on an unforgettable odyssey of classic gaming at its finest.

The biggest pluses are simple, yet provide far-reaching benefits. Phenomenal Convenience. Remarkable Consistency, and Astonishingly Versatile Configurability. Extraordinary Reliability and Stupendous Support Features. Furthermore you just can't beat segueing from one system to the next. A magnificent experience to be sure. It's refined elegance in a svelte and tight package. Potent.

Emulation will elevate your gaming to a new level. Transcendental. Awe. You'll be miraculously whisked away to a realm where stupendous things happen. Hi-Scores suddenly get blown out of this world. Unbelievable!

Emulation is so incredible it should be on That's Incredible!

[fiddlepaddle]

 

Yup... ...Emulation is so incredible it should be on That's Incredible!

 

I'd like to see John Davidson, Cathy Lee Crosby, and Fran Tarkenton try explaining emulation to middle america in 1980...

[bretthorror]

Yeah, not to be rude, but it's almost hard to not laugh in the face of emulation naysayers in this day and age. Fact of the matter is times are changing, physical media is really losing steam, the consoles are getting older and technology is getting newer. With that age, the old systems are breaking down more and these old systems don't look as good as they could video wise. Things have evolved to a point where everyone can be their own video game historian, the resources needed to buy 100 systems and thousands of games is gone in the blink of an eye with emulation.And call it laziness, call it what you will, it's annoying to switch out discs and carts when you don't have to, and it's terrible dealing with controller cables, especially since no one was rocking 50+" screens like we are today. We need long cables. It's just impractical unless you wanna focus on one little niche of collecting. I guess if you have a basement to yourself, you could make this work with 10 TVs or whatever, but if we're getting to the point where we need 20 TVs or 50 things hooked up to a single one just to be a cool retro gamer, I'm out.

 

I have my PC, Xbox One, Wii U, PS4, Ouya, Xbox 360 and would have my PS3 hooked up to my TV if I didn't have it on my projector for Blu-rays. That's 7 MODERN consoles to be hooked up, let alone retro shit.

[Keatah]

A great post. Almost as good mine!

 

Most emulation detractors center around the CRT experience, emulation's processing & display lag, and inserting a real cartridge that exists in the physical world.

 

Improperly set up emulators can indeed have too much lag. Improperly set up emulators can display harsh and sharp edges and make blocky old-school graphics look bad for lack of NTSC effects and artifacting, skipping and clipped sounds too. Again, emulators need to be correctly set up. In all my rants I never said it was easy. There is a learning curve. Consider it the equivalent of troubleshooting and PM for real consoles, but it gets less as time rolls on.

 

See? I previously said that older systems require PM. Yes. But they also need someone skilled in doing such work. Soldering, troubleshooting, measuring, reading schematics. Some of us had been doing such things while still in diapers. But others? Not so. With emulation you need to understand display technology, how it works, how file systems work, and nuances of each emulator's configuration options. And spend some time looking at and absorbing all the configuration options available to you and bring them together in a holistic manner.

 

Currently I think emulation gets us about 90% of the way there. And it's improving. But as a side benefit you get some nifty features not available on real hardware. Real world usable features.

[bretthorror]

A great post. Almost as good mine!

 

Most emulation detractors center around the CRT experience, emulation's processing & display lag, and inserting a real cartridge that exists in the physical world.

 

Improperly set up emulators can indeed have too much lag. Improperly set up emulators can display harsh and sharp edges and make blocky old-school graphics look bad for lack of NTSC effects and artifacting, skipping and clipped sounds too. Again, emulators need to be correctly set up. In all my rants I never said it was easy. There is a learning curve. Consider it the equivalent of troubleshooting and PM for real consoles, but it gets less as time rolls on.

 

See? I previously said that older systems require PM. Yes. But they also need someone skilled in doing such work. Soldering, troubleshooting, measuring, reading schematics. Some of us had been doing such things while still in diapers. But others? Not so. With emulation you need to understand display technology, how it works, how file systems work, and nuances of each emulator's configuration options. And spend some time looking at and absorbing all the configuration options available to you and bring them together in a holistic manner.

 

Currently I think emulation gets us about 90% of the way there. And it's improving. But as a side benefit you get some nifty features not available on real hardware. Real world usable features.

 

I dunno, I don't really notice any lag in emulators, maybe a bit when I play Mario (only really noticeable because I insist on running at all times, always have for some reason). But I'm not breaking world records either, I'm just playing games. I've found myself just getting used to the lag in a few minutes if I do encounter it. I also don't understand the CRT shit, I love the way old games look on the new TVs where everything is so much more vibrant. Save states rule and that alone puts emulation above original for me. Whether purists like it or not, classic gaming has a lot of fundamental flaws that are fixed by save states. I think due to the internet, people are afraid to bash games considered classics. Case in point is Metroid, I was watching the AVGN do a let's play of it and at the end, he had to run around the planet for something like 35 minutes to regain his health to maximum since after you die you start with one health node. So then he fights the boss, loses, and he has to do it all over again. It's ridiculous to not just play on an emulator and use a save state so you can just restart your game at full health or continue on your Castlevania game on level 7 where you left off a week later. Better yet, if you're into arcade ports, you can save your high scores.

 

I do ponder how many hardcore anti-emulator people actually play their games. If I was playing games once a month, I wouldn't mind going out of my way to hook shit up, either. And if you just collect for one or two systems because you lost touch with gaming, that's easy to have your consoles ready to play. But if you're like me and into everything, you're just screwed and I had to take the path of least resistance. I am incredibly nostalgic towards NES games, but my childhood and teenage years were spent battling the fucking blinking light. Original hardware? That shit pissed me off then, I don't need it to piss me off now. I think the reason I get so riled about this topic is because it irritates the hell out of me when someone says points out specifically they beat a game or played a game on original hardware - it's basically a way of saying "I played Super Mario Bros. yesterday, and by the way, I'm also kind of a douche." The game is the game, no matter what you played it on.

[Skippy B. Coyote]

I do ponder how many hardcore anti-emulator people actually play their games.

 

I can't speak for everyone who only plays their games on original hardware, but personally I usually spend around 17 to 20 hours a week playing games. And yes, I do have way too much free time. I'm also finding it pretty amusing, as someone who has a pretty strong dislike for emulation, that a thread I started has pretty much turned into a "Emulators! F***k yeah!" thread.

 

It's alright though. I'm certainly not opposed to other people using emulators if that's the way they enjoy playing their games the most. The whole purpose of playing video games is to have fun, so as long as you're having fun then there's no right or wrong way to play your games. Personally I'm just kind of incompetent when it comes to trying to setup and configure things on computers so I appreciate the simplicity of "Just stick the cartridge in the system, flip the power switch on, and away you go." My consoles may require a little maintenance here and there (the Atari 2600 and NES mainly, I've never had problems with the other systems I play often) but I feel like it's a worthwhile tradeoff to not have to deal with the headache of trying to play games on a computer. I'm also one of those weirdos who loves the visuals from a good CRT TV set and analog video connections. There's just something about the pure digital signal from emulators and modern HDMI connected multi-consoles like the Retron 5 that just looks off to me. Yeah, the pixels are all sharper and cleaner, but there's always something in the back of my head going "That's not how that game is supposed to look!" And yes, I do know that there are artificial scan line filters and all that jazz for emulators to make the games look like they would on a CRT setup, but again, I'm kinda inept when it comes to computers so for me the path of least resistance and frustration is just using original hardware. I'm also a huge fan of light gun shooters, and (as far as I know) a CRT TV and original hardware is really the only way to play those kind of games.

 

Plus labels! There are few video game related things that bring me more joy than finding (or just pulling out of my cabinet and admiring) a game I enjoy with a beautifully clean label on it. I love holding the real physical cartridge in my hand, admiring the label artwork, reading the paper manual, and just… oh man, it's just this intangible kind of happiness that I can't put into words. I've got a lot of love for physical media in general, and I appreciate the fact that the original physical releases of games will always play perfectly with no lag, graphical or audio errors, or anything like that. You always get the real authentic game experience every time, with no setup or technical knowhow required.

 

But again, that's just me. And as I said earlier, everyone should play their games however they enjoy playing them the most. It doesn't really matter whether your playing them on original hardware or using an emulator, the only thing that matters is that you're having fun and enjoying your hobby to the fullest.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Jin