The Video Game Homebrew Crash of 2016

[Rev]

 

No, and it was one of those crap, limited edition, numbered games.

The game itself was crap? Or crappy in the fact that it was limited/serial numbered?

 

I vaguely remember it for sale but didn't get it at the time.

[SIO2]

The game itself was crap? Or crappy in the fact that it was limited/serial numbered?

I vaguely remember it for sale but didn't get it at the time.

According to the YouTube video summary, they worked on it for almost a decade then made a limited run of 250 carts for $75 each. I doubt that it sucked but with numbers like those I can see why they might not be anxious to repeat the project. Edited November 15, 2015 by SIO2

[Jinks]

I got a Boulder dash game in box. I actually played it several times.

I do hate limited edition ebay 20 times what they paid for it yesterday games. Kind of leads us to the repro scammer thread.

 

So then if this thread is to be any use can someone name the homebrew games of 2015 that needed improvement and were sold for 50 bucks or more and ALSO provide valuable constructive feedback on how they could have bèen improved?

You have 15 seconds...GO!!

[SIO2]

1. Don't spend ten years making a game. Then your expectations about how it will be received will be more realistic.

[Rick Dangerous]

Wait...please give me a list of what homebrew games are BAD and to avoid. Hopefully none are on the AA store..

[iesposta]

I understand what Andrew means.

For me it was seeing Desert Bus for the 2600 and seeing people wanting to buy it.

It is a game. It has a goal and a score. But it was a joke, literally comedy.

Whether it was bought to be shelved OR to actually show someone else and then having to explain the joke and the history of the joke to that someone... I was shocked.

 

I literally started artwork for a 2600 Virtual Pet Rock.

Can I make a list of those interested in purchasing the first virtual life form on the Atari 2600?

Then I realised how bad games and bad jokes aren't funny, even if sometimes successful.

[+Atarius Maximus]

According to the YouTube video summary, they worked on it for almost a decade then made a limited run of 250 carts for $75 each. I doubt that it sucked but with numbers like those I can see why they might not be anxious to repeat the project.

 

 

The game itself was crap? Or crappy in the fact that it was limited/serial numbered?

 

I vaguely remember it for sale but didn't get it at the time.

 

I'm pretty sure CPUWIZ was being sarcastic. While not everyone loves Boulder Dash, I don't think anyone would say it was a crap release. It was a limited release due to the agreement they made with FirstStar who owns the IP. That's also why the ROM is not available.

[+Andrew Davie]

Some guy picks up bB, learns how to program, makes a simple game and puts it on cartridge... pays for a limited production run and sells them for $20 a pop, I have no problem with that. We should all support the efforts of people living this dream. I think bB is a fantastic thing for the community, and an amazing achievement. However, if some guy writes his simple and blocky bB game that's not much fun to play and has bad graphics... with the express purpose of milking 50-100 people of $40+ and using someone else's IP to tie-in and create interest with the game, then I think people buying that game are doing themselves and the community a huge dis-service. A small market it is, but it is a market. If you flood the market with low quality Chinese stuff and people keep buying it... then ultimately those producers of higher quality but more expensive to produce (both in time and materials) tend to pack up and move on to other things. Ultimately people can write and try to sell anything they want... but if you support the above sort of release (poorly designed bB stuff churned out in a week or two) then you pretty much end up with the market full of that kind of stuff, and not much else.

[+thegoldenband]

I don't think bB is the "problem", but it's obvious that any tool that lowers the barrier to entry will lead to more crap, typically from people who are more interested in pumping out half-finished product than actually doing good, disciplined work.

 

Of course it does: it's that way in every field. Every tool that democratizes also enables the casual and clueless. Try using GarageBand, and then listening to the music on reality TV shows -- half of it is ripped straight from GarageBand loops. It used to be that even small-time TV shows would hire professional arrangers, musicians; now it's usually the cheapest and most mindless option available.

 

Lowering the bar also means opening the door to new talent that does have something to contribute -- including me. My own efforts in Atari 2600 music are mostly thanks to bB. I could probably have done them in assembly, but I'd have to learn how to build structures that are trivial to construct in BASIC, but tricky in assembly language. It'd be easy to get discouraged.

 

Anything that allows a non-programmer like me to knock out a crappy game demo in three hours is obviously opening doors to the less-skilled. I've got a couple incomplete game demos on my hard drive that are nowhere near release-quality, but I can imagine someone slapping on a label associated with some licensed property and selling them. I could never have done that in assembly, but bB makes it easy.

 

There are a bunch of excellent bB games, even some first-rate ones. But I have to admit I groan whenever I see a new bB game that uses the pre-fabricated score font and display. One of the great things about classic-era games is that they all have their own distinctive look and feel, and using the same bB templates for everything takes away from that.

 

I also think a lot of bB games have weak graphic design -- the best ASM games seem to have more graphical elegance than the best bB games. Whether that's a product of bB's limitations or of programmer skills, I don't know, but from what little I understand of VCS display hardware, I'd imagine it's tough to make great, multi-colored sprite and playfield graphics without programming close to the beam.

 

It's not that making art (and video games are a form of art) needs to be hard to be real, but there's something about the hard way that teaches us something, and gives us a level of control and thoughtfulness that isn't so easily had if you're used to tools that make everything easy. Dilettantism will only get you so far.

 

Anyway, I think posters like RevEng and AtariusMaximus nailed it: it's the unwillingness to polish games that's really the biggest problem. Why are some of the more prolific VCS developers in such a rush? Why not hold that game back until everything about it is awesome, and as good as it can possibly be?

 

And yeah, I think using other people's IP to give gravitas to a crappy, phoned-in game sucks.

[Omegamatrix]

To be honest, I don't mind if people really want to buy #19 of 20 of a really crapola of a release... as long as they know they are getting something to fill their shelf. However if they were expecting a decent game then they might be turned off from making purchases in the future. That does hurt homebrewers so I can concede a little to Andrew on that point. That really just brings us back to try before buy. No hard feelings that way. We will never get back to quantities that used to be sold before flash carts became popular, but hey some people will always like a quality box/cart/manual. I'm thinking of the amazing artwork that has gone into Star Castle Arcade here.

 

 

What I don't like though is when a great game is released in low numbers and you weren't on the forum that week. Too bad, sucks to be you.

[+Atarius Maximus]

Anyway, I think posters like RevEng nailed it: it's the unwillingness to polish games that's really the biggest problem. Why are some of the more prolific VCS developers in such a rush? Why not hold that game back until everything about it is awesome, and as good as it can possibly be?

 

That's the bottom line for me as well. There's no hard and fast rule as to how much time you should spend on making a game, but if you're really proud of it, take the time to polish it. I'm in no way pretending that I'm a prolific expert programmer, but my first game in the AA store was made with bB (Cave In), and love it or hate it I spent several years working on it. I must have play tested that game thousands of times. I wanted it to be as "perfect" as possible.

 

Edit: Ok, it was 99% bB. I did write the titlescreen in pure assembly.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

Exactly. I could make a game that does nothing but display the words "You're an @$$hole" on the screen (you being the buyer, not you the author of the post I'm quoting), have Albert or Hozer or whoever make me 25 copies, call it a Limited Edition (or better yet take it to an expo and call it a Show Exclusive) and sell out before noon.

It gets even more batsh** insane with the guys at NintendoAge and the NES homebrew market. I recently purchased a copy of this game, cornball c0cksuckers. Inspired by an NA thread that went south. No BS. Now I'm almost scared to play it...

 

NSFW!

 

 

I understand what Andrew means.

For me it was seeing Desert Bus for the 2600 and seeing people wanting to buy it.

It is a game. It has a goal and a score. But it was a joke, literally comedy.

Whether it was bought to be shelved OR to actually show someone else and then having to explain the joke and the history of the joke to that someone... I was shocked.

 

I literally started artwork for a 2600 Virtual Pet Rock.

Can I make a list of those interested in purchasing the first virtual life form on the Atari 2600?

Then I realised how bad games and bad jokes aren't funny, even if sometimes successful.

Yeah I never much saw the point in Desert Bus. Maybe create the most boringest game on the planet?

[+Random Terrain]

I also think a lot of bB games have weak graphic design -- the best ASM games seem to have more graphical elegance than the best bB games. Whether that's a product of bB's limitations or of programmer skills, I don't know, but from what little I understand of VCS display hardware, I'd imagine it's tough to make great, multi-colored sprite and playfield graphics without programming close to the beam.

 

If bB programmers want sprites that are as detailed as those by Activision and Imagic (single-height sprites), they have to use the DPC+ Kernel. Sprites using any of the other bB kernels have thicker rows (double-height sprites).

 

Using the DPC+ kernel automatically makes a game 32k and some people claim that anything over 4k is cheating, so that might discourage some bB programmers. That 'cheating' stuff doesn't bother me. I hope another great assembly language programmer will come along and give bB users an even more advanced version of the DPC+ kernel that will have more variables. Lack of extra variables is one of the things that has been keeping me from using the DPC+ kernel. I love having 10 multicolored single-height sprites and a multicolored playfield with simultaneous single line background and foreground colors, but to make the games I want to make with my limited skills, I need at least 48 more variables on top of the usual 26.

[SIO2]

Isn't the lack of variables do to the 2600 having almost no RAM?

[+Random Terrain]

Isn't the lack of variables do to the 2600 having almost no RAM?

 

A bB programmer can use Superchip RAM to get more variables, but the DPC+ kernel doesn't have anything like that so far. We need something like a Superchip DPC+ kernel.

[SIO2]

It is still easier to use a 7800 and you don't end up staring at a candle flickering in the wind.

 

But there are folks who delight in doing the programming equivalent of stuffing 27 clowns into a 5 person econo box. It is fun to watch and I clap when they can pull it off but most people won't put that much effort into it and I don't think everyone should have to.

Edited November 15, 2015 by SIO2

[Omegamatrix]

It is still easier to use a 7800 and you don't end up staring at a candle flickering in the wind.

 

But there are folks who delight in doing the programming equivalent of stuffing 27 clowns into a 5 person econo box. It is fun to watch and I clap when they can pull it off but most people won't put that much effort into it and I don't think everyone should have to or be shamed if they don't.

Why stop at 27?

 

This is my latest game, "Simple Quest". Objective is to brave the forest and get the treasure before the evil spirit appears. Oh, and the only button that works is reset (did I say it's simple???).

 

It's hours and hours of fun, promise. Programmed in assembly too. I am setting up a limited edition run shorty. Expect details soon, and no matter what there will never be another run. Snooze you lose, sorry.

 

 

Simple Quest.bin

 

 

Ooops, I accidently released the rom. I was supposed to hoard that too, damn it!!

Edited November 15, 2015 by Omegamatrix

[+Nathan Strum]

This is my latest game, "Simple Quest". Objective is to brave the forest and get the treasure before the evil spirit appears. Oh, and the only button that works is reset (did I say it's simple???).

 

It's hours and hours of fun, promise. Programmed in assembly too. I am setting up a limited edition run shorty. Expect details soon, and no matter what there will never be another run. Snooze you lose, sorry.

 

It's "teh awesome" as the kids say.

 

Music could be better though.

[roland p]

It's hours and hours of fun, promise. Programmed in assembly too. I am setting up a limited edition run shorty. Expect details soon, and no matter what there will never be another run.

 

Boxed?

[Omegamatrix]

 

It's "teh awesome" as the kids say.

 

Music could be better though.

If you can help me organize a kickstarter, we will have ze music. Think Beethoven in 1 key.

[Omegamatrix]

 

Boxed?

I was originally going to use some left over cereal boxes, but I like your idea much better. Of course I will need a team of designers willing to work long hours for free.

[CDS Games]

Didn't we sorta go through this already with hacks, about ten years ago? For bBasic substitute any number of hacking tools that let anyone change sprites. So we got umpteen versions of Space Invaders and the vector craze. It was all fun but it got less interesting as time went on. But on the other hand look at the stuff Nukey and others did...adding functionality, levels, expanding memory, improving graphics and game play.

 

In many ways, this seems like a second "golden age" of Atari. Step back a bit. 10 years ago we had people clamoring for the missing levels in Donkey Kong, a slightly more accurate version of Pac-Man. We now have two amazing Donkey Kong translations. Such unbelievably accurate Pac-Man ports that people are actually discussing the minutiae of monster pursuit logic. Ports from more advanced consoles (!!) like Princess Rescue and Zippy. Star Castle, Bosconian, Scramble.

 

Amidst all this, yes, we have collectors paying thousands for bad games.

 

But that's a story as old as the hills. It's the traditional aristocracy watching the nouveau riche throw money all over the place with very little taste or refinement to back it up. It's the artisan or composer who spent decades minutely honing his craft and now gets stuck churning out whatever his patron wants.

 

We need to take the long view. Once the mania for tulips, or beaver skin hats, or boxed copies of Air Raid dies down, the people that were only in it for the money will go off and chase something else. And the hobbyists will be, once again, alone with the hobby they enjoy and will remember what made game X great.

[+Random Terrain]

It is still easier to use a 7800 . . .

 

I thought the Atari 7800 was basically an advanced version of the Atari 2600 since it could play Atari 2600 games. I didn't know how different everything was until I started looking at 7800basic. There are so many differences that I'd be lucky if I could get used to it if 7800basic had an IDE similar to Visual batari Basic (VbB). If it wasn't for the useful tools and features that VbB has, I couldn't make anything for the Atari 2600 using batari Basic. 7800basic doesn't have an IDE like VbB at this time, so I'll have to stick with the Atari 2600 until a good IDE comes along for 7800basic.

[Andromeda Stardust]

7800 is vastly different from 2600. For starters there is a damn sprite table so that you don't have to "race the beam" by spending 75% of CPU time adjusting and updating the display on every scanline. In fact I believe the VCS is the only console that works line by line without any kind of display buffer. So Maria can handle a metric ton of sprites onscreen unlike the TIA had two players, two missiles, a ball, and some blocky playfield backgrounds.

[Matthew]

step 1) Make crappy game with huge playfield graphics as title screen and single coloured sprites

step 2) Make Limited Edition run,and tie in with some random sh1tty art house movie.

step 3) Get Holywood B lister to sign dog turds.

step 4) Profit.

 

Would love to see the BANNING of this stuff at AtariAge. If it's not good enough for the AtariAge store, try harder.