Coleco Chameleon .... hardware speculations?

[Newsdee]

(Rpi3)

 

And it opens new avenues for emulation projects.

I'm so tempted to get one to see how much RetroPie improves the last iteration was really good in general, especially core functioms like Scratch for kids (so slow in v1). Edited February 29, 2016 by Newsdee

[jaybird3rd]

Damn that Raspberry Pi ... stealing Mike's thunder yet again! Now everybody is going to buy the Raspberry Pi 3, and then they'll start enjoying their precious emulators on a reasonably-priced platform, and they'll forget all about the Coleco Chameleon!

 

First the Internet haters, now this. Why can't the Coleco Chameleon team get a break?!

[Newsdee]

It's great news for the dragonshop.de guys and their Retropi project (RPi+Retrode in the same case).

 

One caveat though, the Retron 5 (and I believe the RetroFreak as well) have a 1.6 Ghz ARM chip that probably runs emulators better. Unless of course coders manage to optimize emus better for the RPi3.

[Hyperboy]

Where can I buy one right now for $35 from US based supplier? I read the article but no links on where to buy.

I just ordered from mcmelectronics for $35 with free shipping.

[PikoInteractive]

So here is my post with my insight; what I am worried about is that a lot of you will not like it. Mainly because it doesn't reveal Mike or anyone scamming or committing fraud.

 

Hopefully the community don't start claiming and speculating (like the love to do, seriously whats up with that?) that we are trying to cover up for someone or defending the CC team.

 

These are honest thoughts and what happen on the NY trip.

 

I went to NY to see the console up front; I wanted to check it out in person. I wanted to see it running and I wanted to see the insides. I arrived to NY on Wednesday, about 3 days before the show. I've never been so I took my wife to get to know the place. I loved it, really recommend it.

 

So Saturday morning arrives and we are an hour late; I wanted to arrive at 10 sharp, but at 10 am, my wife was still drying her hair. Anyways, we arrive a bit passed 11 am. We took a cab because it was freezing. It was something like below 15F with over 50Mph winds; if you stood out side without a beanie or something, your ears would get sliced by the wind. On the cab ride, my phone was going crazy with fb messages; but I really wanted to get there and get our badges. Anyways, we got our badges, and I decided I wanted to see the first floor first (Coleco was on the second), as I was looking for some Action Figure Vendors (unrelated to Piko). We walked the first floor for like an hour or so; my wife is one of those people that stops at every booth, and gets their flyer etc at expos or cons. I'm more of a hunter, my head router is scanning for what I want.

 

It was a bit after 12:00 Pm when I decided to run to the Coleco Booth and then come back and finish up the first floor. On the way there I started reading our messages and it was triverse and my programmer; they were saying that the console was a SNES Jr inside a Jag shell and what not. My initial thought was "Lol What". Anyways I got there and I met Mike, then I introduced my self to a couple of other people; Chris from Coleco, Stephem from Colecoaddict and some other people that I don't remember. It really seemed to me that Chris was the one that was going to the show and then the CC team tag along; I don't see anything wrong with that, I probably would have done it too. If you can save money on your project by tagging along to someone and re-invest it on other things on your project you should always do it.

 

Anyways, I see the system, and Mike tells me: "something happened, is resetting randomly"; I tried a couple of games, and yeah it wouldn't allow me to get passed the intro screen, or menu screen of the game. When it would reset, it would send you to a menu I had never seen before; the menu had the games names and you would pick them to play. So I asked Mike: "did you guys made this OS?" and Mike tells me: :I think Li did it, he is the one that made that cart. It has SD card an all!"- Now, I saw Mike's face when he told me this, and he truly believed what he was saying. So I paid more attention to the main OS, and I noticed a Copyright note of some sorts and then I realized it was a SD2SNES. Now I have never seen, touched, or used a SD2SNES ever; it was the first time. That thing is pricey, so the flashcart I use is the Super UFO 8, that thing does marvels; it has a cart dumper, SD card, and you can load games into the RAM through USB and play.

 

Anyways, I asked Mike how it was going over the Internetz, because I had heard the rumors already (didn't mention I knew the rumors to him) and he tells me "People are saying it is an SNES mini inside, but is is just the back connections" - He didn't know actually that the pin connectors were also part of a SNES mini, and I will address this later into the story. I kept looking at how the SD2SNES kept messing up, and it seemed like only when you played a game it would reset quickly; and I thought it might have been the SD card, until after a while I noticed the SD2SNES OS also reset; So I realized the flashcart was the faulty one. I thought, may be I could use one of these carts I brought for LootCrate (and Actually Nerdblock too, but never found them). I had brought a NES game (Quest Forge) and a prototype Multicart we had done for Hyperkin to be bundled on the Retron 5 (thats why 5 in 1) but they flaked on us and cancelled the PO; so I brought it over to try to offer game carts to the box subscription places.

 

I then got the SNES multicart off the shell and told Mike, try this, plug this one and if it works, it means the SD2SNES was not working. I tried to explain Mike that the cart he had brought, you can buy it online; but the way he looked at me, I realized he didn't know what I was talking about. He tells me " No, I don't think so, this was made for me"; I tried to explain again what it was, but he couldn't really catch what I meant so I told him not to worry about and to plug my board. Then he proceeds to tell me "but our cart has pins on the sides, your board has less pins"; and I told him, don't worry about that, I think mine should work.

 

He plugs it in, (he had to lift the transparent cube, while someone held the controller extensions to plug it) He plug it once, and turn it one and black screen. I thought to myself " I guess they are running an emulator not really FGPA", but then I remembered about the SD2SNES, so I tell him to unplug and plug again carefully, and to turn off the console and turn it on again. And Bam! I see our 5 in 1 Menu; Mike yells: "Oh it worked!!" And I tell him, "well the important part is if it maps, if it doesn't map it is worthless". I press a button to pick a game, and It mapped. So I was impressed; they claim is an FGPA, and it is working. I then proceed to ask Mike to let me talk to this Li who was in charge, to see what he had stuffed in there and why it was using SNES parts.

 

He calls him and passes the phone over to me. I ask him and he tells me that they were really backed up, and they needed something for the Show because Mike really wanted to show the console. So he used their current proto board and used scrap parts from a SNES mini to get it working with carts and displaying for the Toy Show. I asked him if he would allow me to see the insides, so I could ethically say I saw it and it wasn't a SNES mini; He said that the way they put together the proto, he wasn't comfortable, because if we broke something, there wouldn't be a way for him to fix it over the phone.

 

I went back to the booth, talked to Chris about their Flashback Atgames console; then I was hungry so I told Mike I was leaving for lunch and he asked if he could keep the board, and I told him yeah no worries.

 

Came back, walked all first floor finally; it was time to go to the second floor. it was already around 3:30 or so. Go back to the booth, there were people still there, I think Mike was talking with someone from gizmondo or something like that; I left to walk the second floor. Came back around 5:30 or so to say good bye, Saturday was going to be my only day at the show. We flew in on Wednesday and NY is not the cheapest city in the US. Mike proceeds to invite us to dinner, as they all were going to a restaurant at night. Went to the hotel, and Showered, I walked too much and it was hot inside the show; and headed out to dinner. When we arrived, everybody was already there; we sat by Chris and Stephem and talk about plenty things, what we all did for job. Action figures, yada yada. We said goodbye, and then we met some friends that happened to be in NY also at this awesome bar call Spin, where you rent ping pong tables!! Best place in NY honestly.

 

Next day, our flight was leaving at 9 am local time, yada yada, connection flight to DC then to Houston. when I board the DC flight, I see AA going crazy, conspiracy theorist, speculation, Fraud, blah blah blah. I told Mike on a Text; Dude, you need to address this, If you want me to say that the proto was not an SNES mini, send me pictures and videos over the phone, I would know if it wasn't an SNES Mini board. He said he wanted to Wait; the show had still like 3 more days to go.

 

I was disappointed I didn't see the insides; but I got to meet Chris from Coleco, and he seems like he really cares about the brand. He told me all this cool Ideas he wanted to do under the Coleco brand etc. We actually kept in contact, same with Stephem.

 

My gut never really told me that Mike was hiding something, or lying (and I have a pretty good gut!) To me was that Mike sometimes doesn't understand 100% what they tell him in technobabel, and tries his best to explain it in his words (what he understood, not necessarily what they were telling him), and it could be perceived as he was lying or not constant with other things he had said before. I tried to say it nicely on my blog post on the site (Mike is not a hardware guy, he has 110% of trust on his HW guy etc.)

 

At this moment, we haven't pull out of the project, nor are on it. We are just like everybody else waiting. If it is somehow successful, then well yeah we'll want to make games for it. It is sort of the point of doing business and games, selling as much of them as possible.

 

Now I really need to go back to work, I have wasted a lot of time reading this thread and the dozens of pointless posts.

 

Also, these is how I remember things right now; there might be unimportant details I'm missing.

Edited February 29, 2016 by PikoInteractive

[phoenixdownita]

...

Anyways, I see the system, and Mike tells me: "something happened, is resetting randomly"; I tried a couple of games, and yeah it wouldn't allow me to get passed the intro screen, or menu screen of the game. When it would reset, it would send you to a menu I had never seen before; the menu had the games names and you would pick them to play. So I asked Mike: "did you guys made this OS?" and Mike tells me: :I think Li did it, he is the one that made that cart. It has SD card an all!"- Now, I saw Mike's face when he told me this, and he truly believed what he was saying. So I paid more attention to the main OS, and I noticed a Copyright note of some sorts and then I realized it was a SD2SNES. Now I have never seen, touched, or used a SD2SNES ever; it was the first time. That thing is pricey, so the flashcart I use is the Super UFO 8, that thing does marvels; it has a cart dumper, SD card, and you can load games into the RAM through USB and play.

 

...

If I may this is critical. SD2SNES points to someone intent to deceive.

If they can claim to have a fully working SNES FPGA for sure they can make a multicart with 3 games on it and no need of SD2SNES.

The rest is "whatever happened".

 

He's the President HE NEEDS TO KNOW.

Edited February 29, 2016 by phoenixdownita

[jaybird3rd]

Thanks to PikoInteractive for the very interesting rundown of the events at Toy Fair. Since most of us couldn't be there, it's nice to get a firsthand account of what happened and what was said by whom.

 

He's the President HE NEEDS TO KNOW.

Agreed. If Piko's recollections are correct (and I have no reason to believe that they aren't), then Mike didn't practice due diligence in supervising and following up on the work of his "hardware guy." If he had, he would have known right away that the story about hacking the prototype together out of "scrap parts from an SNES" was highly suspicious, for all sorts of reasons. As I've said before, after his supposed experience with John Carlsen "going rogue" and designing a crazy expensive system, one would think he would know better than to give "110% trust" to anybody. If he wants to claim that he "isn't a hardware guy" and simply repeated what he was told because he didn't know any better, then I would submit that he isn't the right guy to be heading up this project, especially at the early stages when the hardware design is the project's primary concern.

[dj_convoy]

Mike seems to maintain a crunchy shell of plausible deniability.

[godslabrat]

Thanks to PikoInteractive for the very interesting rundown of the events at Toy Fair. Since most of us couldn't be there, it's nice to get a firsthand account of what happened and what was said by whom.

 

Agreed. If Piko's recollections are correct (and I have no reason to believe that they aren't), then Mike didn't practice due diligence in supervising and following up on the work of his "hardware guy." If he had, he would have known right away that the story about hacking the prototype together out of "scrap parts from an SNES" was highly suspicious, for all sorts of reasons. As I've said before, after his supposed experience with John Carlsen "going rogue" and designing a crazy expensive system, one would think he would know better than to give "110% trust" to anybody. If he wants to claim that he "isn't a hardware guy" and simply repeated what he was told because he didn't know any better, then I would submit that he isn't the right guy to be heading up this project, especially at the early stages when the hardware design is the project's primary concern.

 

 

I will not doubt a word of Piko's post, and I thank him for it.

 

I've said elsewhere, that when someone puts themself in the position Mike has, the possibilities are reduced to two: they are either lying or stupid. So far, I've seen little evidence that Mike is stupid, however this could be a point in that column.

 

However, that doesn't change the outcome. If Mike didn't know what he had under that hood, or didn't even know what an SD2SNES is, then he has no business running this project. It'd be like a guy trying to make a revolutionary smartphone and not knowing what bluetooth was or who why people like that "iPhone" thingy so much.

[galax]

Thanks, very interesting to read this clear first hand account.

So I asked Mike: "did you guys made this OS?" and Mike tells me: :I think Li did it, he is the one that made that cart. It has SD card an all!"- Now, I saw Mike's face when he told me this, and he truly believed what he was saying. So I paid more attention to the main OS, and I noticed a Copyright note of some sorts and then I realized it was a SD2SNES. [...] I tried to explain Mike that the cart he had brought, you can buy it online; but the way he looked at me, I realized he didn't know what I was talking about. He tells me " No, I don't think so, this was made for me"; I tried to explain again what it was, but he couldn't really catch what I meant so I told him not to worry about and to plug my board.

The person who taped that SD2SNES PCB to the Jaguar shell had to know that it was a commercially available product, Copyright 2009-2012. Was this whole thing really provided to Mike fully electrical-taped up?

He calls him and passes the phone over to me. I ask him and he tells me that they were really backed up, and they needed something for the Show because Mike really wanted to show the console. So he used their current proto board and used scrap parts from a SNES mini to get it working with carts and displaying for the Toy Show. I asked him if he would allow me to see the insides, so I could ethically say I saw it and it wasn't a SNES mini; He said that the way they put together the proto, he wasn't comfortable, because if we broke something, there wouldn't be a way for him to fix it over the phone.

It's a shame you didn't think to ask ask 'Li' about the SD2SNES. At least one of these two people was lying to you, probably both.

 

I've said elsewhere, that when someone puts themself in the position Mike has, the possibilities are reduced to two: they are either lying or stupid. So far, I've seen little evidence that Mike is stupid, however this could be a point in that column.

 

A person who has been misled would have been very interested in Piko's revelation that his SD multicart was a commercial product. A person who is lying would probably just pretend not to understand.

[Flojomojo]

I believe this much:

 

1. they were really backed up,

2. they needed something for the Show because

3. Mike really wanted to show the console.

4. the way they put together the proto, he wasn't comfortable, because if we broke something, there wouldn't be a way for him to fix it over the phone.

[phoenixdownita]

I believe this much:

 

1. they were really backed up,

2. they needed something for the Show because

3. Mike really wanted to show the console.

4. the way they put together the proto, he wasn't comfortable, because if we broke something, there wouldn't be a way for him to fix it over the phone.

It still does NOT justify why the proto was NOT under the clear Jag shell that was available to Mike.

[S1500]

I think we're getting more enterainment out of this thread than we are the imagined final product.

[Flojomojo]

It still does NOT justify why the proto was NOT under the clear Jag shell that was available to Mike.

 

 

No, of course not. Best case for Mike is that he's a mushroom.

 

It's good that they stepped back from trying to take peoples' money. I see no need for us to go all "what did you know and when did you know it" at this point in time.

 

Thanks again Piko for taking the time to tell your side of the story.

[PlaysWithWolves]

I think Pipercub's Chameleon prototype uses spare SNES mini parts too.

 

Thanks for your insight, Eli. If Coleco and/or MK were self-funding I think the reaction would be completely different. Perhaps till some mocking, but less talk of scamming.

[prince_david]

I believe you Piko but i think yet again RetroVGS/Coleco is handling the PR really badly. They need to address people's concerns and come clean. This is the same problem they had last time..

[toiletunes]

Thank you Piko. Real, firsthand info is hard to get, hence the speculation.

 

Assuming Kennedy didn't think is was a SNES, all he had to do was check and see. If it wasn't, show us. If it was, confess.

[prince_david]

This is the kind of problem when you don't have a technically oriented person at the tech show. Still they really need to be handling this better, without giving any information, potential fans have lost all faith. The retro gaming community is not as big as they think over there, and they need to extend some community good will buy opening up on information.

[cimerians]

Thank you, these are exactly the types of Kickstarters I avoid.

[toiletunes]

also, could someone post pics of the sd2snes copyright screen?

[Cybermario]

 

also, could someone post pics of the sd2snes copyright screen?

 

How? was Eli noticing the copyright screen, doubt he thought in taking photos of that.

 

Anyway... Li, who is this "tech guy" mister Li, i would like to know the full name now. Also if Mike is not a tech guy and cant explain the basics of how his console works, why was not "Li" in there to explain to people how this console works and the specs of said console? All i can think of is people in the industry asking Mike "so what are the specs, what can your product do" while he is there with a blank stare and a homer face "think brain, think!"

 

Cant believe Mike is so gullible to believe everything "Li" told him without making any questions at all, especially after John Carlsen. Or is Li just slapping random boards in jaguar shells as he takes Mike's money "trust me bruh, im an expert, handle with care or you'll break it, dont show it to anyone!", if that's the case i pity Mike for being that gullible and let Li rip off money from him.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Cybermario

[godslabrat]

...Okay, so the cover couldn't be removed because it was "too delicate", but carts were swapped freely without issue?

[Cybermario]

...Okay, so the cover couldn't be removed because it was "too delicate", but carts were swapped freely without issue?

if they removed the cover the magic leprechaun powering the console was going to escape, you silly.

[leods]

Uncorrelated but Pi3 on sale:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-3-on-sale/

 

64bit quad core A53 at 1.2Ghz, 50-60% perf increase for 32bit apps, not sure about 64bits apps (you'd want more memory at that point).

Integrated WiFi and BT 4.0.

 

Same 35US$ price ..... sweeeeeeeeeeeet.

Raspi released TWO new products in the time it took The Retro VGS to hook up an SNES and Play some pre existing games. By the time Retro VGS Comes out with a product Raspberry will be releasing a PC the size of a grains of sand that can emulate all System all the way up to the playtation 5... And it will cost 1/10 of the Price of the Retro VGS final console, that will be named the "Segintendo graphicstation 360" It will bring cartridges to the Forefront of gaming by sticking a Game.com into an Atari Linx Shell.

[Pipercub]

The last time I talked to Mike was very shortly after the Indigogo started and right after the video of the first fake prototype was posted. I already knew about the new company and the assets being moved and I was angry but when you know someone for as long and as well as that there is still a compelling urge to help the person you knew so I rang him and told him that this is going to be a catastrophic disaster because it took me seconds to realize that was no prototype and that others would as well. I told him you have to kill this thing now before any more damage is done. He replied that they were probably going to do so over the weekend but that they were confident in the prototype, the next day people had everything on that table identified and the topic exploded, then came the parody videos etc. At each change of the" hardware guy" from me through #5 he picks up a little terminology and passes that along to the next guy, and while you could put a Raspberry Pi running Emulation Station on it and tell him it was an FPGA custom board and he would believe you he sure as heck knows what a multicart is and we even reviewed the SD2SNES on RetroGaming Roundup when he was still part of the show. From Eli's post I certainly learned allot about his trip to NYC but that is about it. That SNESinaJAG is about as obvious as that cart shell taped to the SD2SNES and I think Eli knows what he saw, but that said I understand what he meant about people being upset because it wasn't direct enough, we got some negative feedback for our discussion on the topic being factual and not a personal bash fest, sorry it wasn't going to be that.