Coleco Chameleon .... hardware speculations?

[PlaysWithWolves]

I'd be going over those accounting books with a fine tooth comb, a magnifying glass, and any other idioms one can recall.

[jaybird3rd]

i fail to see how the acquisition of retro could do anything but discredit carl's work, create a negative association, and potentially distance people from supporting the sum of the whole effort.

From my read of the situation (whatever that's worth), this isn't Carl joining forces with Mike, or a "merger" of the two magazines which will allow Mike and "his people" to save face and remain involved with it on an ongoing basis. It's more like Retro Gaming Magazine acquiring RETRO Magazine's ashes, inheriting their subscriber base and their distribution network (I believe RETRO Magazine is carried by Barnes & Noble, among other places), but continuing under the RGM banner. I can see that happening without any stigma or negative association from the old RETRO.

 

As SD&R says, Mike is at the point where he has to either speak up and come clean with his subscribers (which is highly unlikely given his history) or shut the whole enterprise down (which is also unlikely since it would put him in very hot water with his subscribers). An easy way out is to hand the whole thing off to somebody else fast. Carl simply seems to be taking advantage of an opportunity to take over the competition while increasing the profile of RGM. It's obviously important for him to do his due diligence to make sure that he isn't inheriting a nightmare from a business/financial perspective, but given how closely he's followed the story since the beginning, I'm sure Carl knows what he's doing.

 

(Besides, after all the taunting that Mike publicly subjected Carl to last year, gloating about the success of his Kickstarter campaigns for RETRO compared to those for RGM, I think it's a delicious bit of poetic justice that RGM is now taking over RETRO.)

[bretthorror]

I'll bet if Mike did turn it over to someone, there will be something in writing to never mention him or his bullshit in the publication in a negative light.

[shawnphase]

i didnt think it would be a merger, but in acquiring that ip, he would also be acquiring all the bad juju that comes along with it regardless of who is involved. he would be acquiring a name, a name with no credibility to it. the taunting makes it much worse and much more storied, given carl was just about the only person mike lashed out at in this whole debacle.

[PlaysWithWolves]

I believe there's another RETRO mag already finished. I guess it depends upon contractual obligations, the new owners' finances and ad revenue on whether or not to fulfill the remaining Kickstarter issues. If he can afford it, and even has that desire, it seems like a great chance to get his foot in the door with many subscribers and possibly Barnes&Noble.

 

Of course, no telling how much ad space for the upcoming issue is dedicated to a certain fake console.

 

 

retro magazine has a bad rep, one well earned based on failing to deliver what was paid for as well as being light on substance, its well documented. this is due to mismanagement that damaged that name over a protracted period of time. so by absorbing that, you'd basically be admitting there was worth to that ip when it has been proven by the community there is not. its the same mistake mike made many times. i think if this was gamester81 or somene else trying to take the reigns who wasnt as proficient of a writer and as thorough as carl is, maybe it would be a different story. perhaps through hype and acceptance after pleading with the public, someone with at least some sort of positive association to mike could get it back on track. otherwise, even putting deliberation toward possibly gaining ownership of the mag, i dont see how that would even be possible otherwise given how mike is. i fail to see how the acquisition of retro could do anything but discredit carl's work, create a negative association, and potentially distance people from supporting the sum of the whole effort.

[StopDrop&Retro]

Hahaha

 

I just thought, maybe RETRO magazine can be acquired by River West Brands and it'll be another forgotten brand they revitalize?

 

 

 

Edit: also, I don't know how Kickstarter sees the delivery obligation to the backers, but I helped a guy with a Kickstarter once and according to him Kickstarter does not let you transfer/sell off/pass your delivery obligation onto someone else. But maybe that guy was wrong. After all, Kickstarter is a paper tiger. They try to put protections in place but have very little reach after the creator gets the money.

[toiletunes]

Corner the market?

[RupanIII]

Post Shilling us to 300? hahahhaha

 

double post. Sorry.

 

 

Yeah, I still wonder if some of the people on the website were still even involved with the project.
Now it's all deleted, but i'm sure people made screenshots.

 

I wonder if that Angel.co page is something current for this Zenergy games.

 

Hopefully he takes a breather before venturing out again.

[mickcris]

I guess if the magazine can be bought for super cheap it may be worth it. But there isn't really much of a market for it. They had to do another kickstarter for year 2 that seemed odd to me. Think if it was visble, it should have been able to continue on by itself. I didn't subscribe and probably never will though so I'm probably not the target audience anyway.

[jaybird3rd]

(Never mind; I thought they had taken down the Talk RETRO website, but it seems that I was looking at the wrong site.)

[Greg2600]

I guess if the magazine can be bought for super cheap it may be worth it. But there isn't really much of a market for it. They had to do another kickstarter for year 2 that seemed odd to me. Think if it was visble, it should have been able to continue on by itself. I didn't subscribe and probably never will though so I'm probably not the target audience anyway.

 

There's a market, but when you sign exclusivity with Play n Trade stores, and shut out all indie stores, probably not a good idea. Mike had the connections and names to make it happen. He made too many promises and largely left many new and old from the gaming sector behind.

[+madman]

I guess if the magazine can be bought for super cheap it may be worth it. But there isn't really much of a market for it. They had to do another kickstarter for year 2 that seemed odd to me. Think if it was visble, it should have been able to continue on by itself. I didn't subscribe and probably never will though so I'm probably not the target audience anyway.

I'm not sure I see the market here either, other than "RETRO! PRINTED ON PAPER! COLLECTIBLE!!" Before this saga I don't think I knew about any print retro mags and based on reviews of the content, I wasn't missing out on much. This isn't directed at these magazines because I have no experience with them, but it seems the majority of online articles/YT videos are just people rehashing Wikipedia entries and other existing information, regardless of their accuracy. I've seen so much misinformation that I've mostly given up on attempting to correct it. I don't want to see it for free and I certainly wouldn't pay for it. It may take a little more work to track down, but I find the best information from places like AA and other forums.

[Newsdee]

I only know Retro Gamer from the UK, which is pretty good although I'm more interested in their DVD compilations than the print version. I still buy it when I find one outside of the UK for travel reading, though. How is RGM?

[Andromeda Stardust]

I only know Retro Gamer from the UK, which is pretty good although I'm more interested in their DVD compilations than the print version. I still buy it when I find one outside of the UK for travel reading, though. How is RGM?

I'm honestly not sure. Retro Gamer as a UK publication, spends way too much focus on old computer games as opposed to consoles, something I and many Americans have little nostalgia for.

 

If Carl can take over the Retro Mag, that would be awesome!

[Shawn]

One thing that is known to happen in business is to acquire the competition just to shut them down. They take what they want from the purchase and burn the rest.

[Newsdee]

I'd imagine fullfilling the delivery of remaining issues to RETRO subscribers would be good advertisement.

[StopDrop&Retro]

lol, what would they call it so people know it's a different mag? "New RETRO!"

[dommie]

Unless MK is paying somebody to take the mag, I can't see how any sane businessperson would want to acquire it. It's got a ton of outstanding debt from what I've gleamed from staff speaking out, not to mention undelivered product that was paid for. There is literally no upside to an acquisition.

[shawnphase]

One thing that is known to happen in business is to acquire the competition just to shut them down. They take what they want from the purchase and burn the rest.

 

heh, with this, the only thing salvageable that carl would get would be, yep: the jag molds. and that would only be if the money was gleaned from the mag and not gamegavel, correct? i think thats reverse of what happened...

Edited March 15, 2016 by shawnphase

[triverse]

First of all, thank you to everyone for your comments, concern and warnings. I am reading them and appreciate each and every one of them. This is not a situation that I am taking lightly, or cheaply.

There is no malice behind my plans to take over RETRO Magazine. Just the opposite actually. For better or for worse, the magazine is viewed as the current leader for North American based retro publications (even though "retro" content was sparse at best). From my understanding, there is no staff left outside of Mr. Kennedy himself- everyone is gone, left or whatever. They still have a minimum of two issues left to fulfill their second Kickstarter promises. That is a huge undertaking for a new owner to assume.

I would like to address that first. I plan on assessing the situation when I know more as far as exactly how many subscribers there are total. How many were Year Two backers and how many "after Kickstarter subscribers" that are owed two or more issues.

I view these subscribers as valuable members of the family. I would not move forward on this if I had no intention of taking care of those subscribers. That would be wrong, it would be ignorant of their support and it would be plain stupid of anyone assuming this mess to ignore them. That is going to be a HUGE investment of money and time to make things right with them- it is something that is priority one for me.

Telling those subscribers I am not responsible for their lack of receiving issues would be beyond reprehensible. That is not an option to me.

This is not a merger of the magazines as in Mike with RETRO and me with Retro Gaming Magazine. This would be a hostile takeover and Mike would no longer be involved with the project in any way. He may receive a complimentary lifetime subscription though.

Now onto the comments, concerns etc.

Here is Carl's announcement from Facebook:


I can actually see this as being a good thing. The market is probably too small for two competing publications, and after the RVGS/Chameleon ordeal, it's clear that Mike Kennedy can no longer continue as the head of RETRO Magazine. It may not always be fair, but as Ian said in the most recent CUPodcast segment, when you screw up that badly, you bring everything else down with you. RETRO Magazine was clearly suffering while Mike was trying to build an empire, using the magazine as a loss leader for his other endeavors. Now that Carl and Retro Gaming Magazine will be taking it over, it has the opportunity to refocus on being the best magazine it can be.

So true. Mr. Kennedy has made a lot of public mistakes. I can only hope that what comes of this is what the fans want and will support. Without the fans, there is nothing.

the biggest question i have is this: why would anyone want to do business with mike at this point? given his track record, he seems to have invariably fucked up any business he's come into contact with. with that also comes damage to all who worked with him, as we've seen by people jumping ship off the magazine. put it this way, you dont see anyone jumping ship from gamegavel, and maybe its because noone else is involved. thats mike's mother business, so to speak. to associate with his brand or any branding would also be forever associating yourself with mike, and who wants to do that? maybe if those writers didnt jump ship, there'd be something to that ip.

retro magazine has a bad rep, one well earned based on failing to deliver what was paid for as well as being light on substance, its well documented. this is due to mismanagement that damaged that name over a protracted period of time. so by absorbing that, you'd basically be admitting there was worth to that ip when it has been proven by the community there is not. its the same mistake mike made many times. i think if this was gamester81 or somene else trying to take the reigns who wasnt as proficient of a writer and as thorough as carl is, maybe it would be a different story. perhaps through hype and acceptance after pleading with the public, someone with at least some sort of positive association to mike could get it back on track. otherwise, even putting deliberation toward possibly gaining ownership of the mag, i dont see how that would even be possible otherwise given how mike is. i fail to see how the acquisition of retro could do anything but discredit carl's work, create a negative association, and potentially distance people from supporting the sum of the whole effort.

First, burn on Mr. Kennedy. Next, content would be a big 180 turn around over what they were offering. Also timely content would be numero uno (no Star Wars coverage two to three months AFTER the hype for the movie for instance).

Thanks for the kudos there.

It could be damaging to RGM and what we have built but I don't think, with the right guidance, proper transparency and dedication to quality, that it will be all that bad of an affect. It can be turned around. Just going to be hard.

If someone were to purchase RETRO media or whatever it's called, the magazine part, as a going concern - how much do you think they'd need to put to one side for making good all those people who never saw their magazines? Or would it be a case of - that was them, not my problem and screw those guys?

I can't discuss specifics at this time but it is what some would classify as a "scary" amount to make good on outstanding debt.

It is not an option to screw over those that backed it, even if it was during the previous administration.

I believe there's another RETRO mag already finished. I guess it depends upon contractual obligations, the new owners' finances and ad revenue on whether or not to fulfill the remaining Kickstarter issues. If he can afford it, and even has that desire, it seems like a great chance to get his foot in the door with many subscribers and possibly Barnes&Noble.

Of course, no telling how much ad space for the upcoming issue is dedicated to a certain fake console.

Good points. Definitely some checks in the pluses column.

i didnt think it would be a merger, but in acquiring that ip, he would also be acquiring all the bad juju that comes along with it regardless of who is involved. he would be acquiring a name, a name with no credibility to it. the taunting makes it much worse and much more storied, given carl was just about the only person mike lashed out at in this whole debacle.

It is not a merger. Mr. Kennedy would vacate any ownership/involvement whatsoever. Bad juju is what you make of it, I like to cook it and see what is for dinner myself.

You guys noticed the public lashing Mr. Kennedy tried to hand me? I mean, he did learn the fine art of "copy and paste" when I was using screen caps. Good on him.

I'll bet if Mike did turn it over to someone, there will be something in writing to never mention him or his bullshit in the publication in a negative light.

Would he really have to put that in writing at this point?

From my read of the situation (whatever that's worth), this isn't Carl joining forces with Mike, or a "merger" of the two magazines which will allow Mike and "his people" to save face and remain involved with it on an ongoing basis. It's more like Retro Gaming Magazine acquiring RETRO Magazine's ashes, inheriting their subscriber base and their distribution network (I believe RETRO Magazine is carried by Barnes & Noble, among other places), but continuing under the RGM banner. I can see that happening without any stigma or negative association from the old RETRO.

As SD&R says, Mike is at the point where he has to either speak up and come clean with his subscribers (which is highly unlikely given his history) or shut the whole enterprise down (which is also unlikely since it would put him in very hot water with his subscribers). An easy way out is to hand the whole thing off to somebody else fast. Carl simply seems to be taking advantage of an opportunity to take over the competition while increasing the profile of RGM. It's obviously important for him to do his due diligence to make sure that he isn't inheriting a nightmare from a business/financial perspective, but given how closely he's followed the story since the beginning, I'm sure Carl knows what he's doing.

(Besides, after all the taunting that Mike publicly subjected Carl to last year, gloating about the success of his Kickstarter campaigns for RETRO compared to those for RGM, I think it's a delicious bit of poetic justice that RGM is now taking over RETRO.)

Ding ding. This is the plan. Acquire the ashes, make an ashen snowman or two, take some selfies and then go about knocking it down for fun.

Yes, the two publications would continue under the RETRO Gaming Magazine banner and be one entity.

I am an opportunist, as they say. Nothing wrong with it, just being honest. It is going to be a nightmare of a situation to traverse and there will be lawyers and accountants involved making sure everything is disclosed and accounted for.

Is there any better justice than "poetic"?

heh, with this, the only thing salvageable that carl would get would be, yep: the jag molds. and that would only be if the money was gleaned from the mag and not gamegavel, correct? i think thats reverse of what happened...

I am open to those being added to add value to this deal. As many have stated already, there is not much left after the mismanagement that has occurred.

Unless MK is paying somebody to take the mag, I can't see how any sane businessperson would want to acquire it. It's got a ton of outstanding debt from what I've gleamed from staff speaking out, not to mention undelivered product that was paid for. There is literally no upside to an acquisition.

Who said it is not going down like that?

lol, what would they call it so people know it's a different mag? "New RETRO!"

While that has a certain ring to it, I prefer to capitalize the word RETRO and just add Gaming Magazine afterward. It seems fitting to combine them that way. Though "New" RETRO has a ring ot it too...

I'd imagine fullfilling the delivery of remaining issues to RETRO subscribers would be good advertisement.

Or just being a decent human being. Either one works.

One thing that is known to happen in business is to acquire the competition just to shut them down. They take what they want from the purchase and burn the rest.

I think Mr. Kennedy has already burned the rest.

I only know Retro Gamer from the UK, which is pretty good although I'm more interested in their DVD compilations than the print version. I still buy it when I find one outside of the UK for travel reading, though. How is RGM?

Pardon me for being biased but, the content of Retro Gaming Magazine was pretty solid- though those layouts. Man, they should fire the guy that laid those out (it was me). He shouldn't be allowed to lay anything else out (I am not) and he should stick to writing (I am) and taking screenshots (if I have to).

Here, grab the free PDFs and decide for yourself. That interview about Policenauts in issue #2 actually earned me a C&D (i.e., please don't run it or we will look at you sternly) from Konami too bad you can't retract print.

http://downloads.ziddu.com/download/23823205/rgm1printproof.pdf.html

http://downloads.ziddu.com/download/23823184/RGM-2-Final.pdf.html

I guess if the magazine can be bought for super cheap it may be worth it. But there isn't really much of a market for it. They had to do another kickstarter for year 2 that seemed odd to me. Think if it was visble, it should have been able to continue on by itself. I didn't subscribe and probably never will though so I'm probably not the target audience anyway.

That boggled my mind too. It was a "what the hell are they doing?" type event when I saw them announce Year 2 on Kickstarter. The magazine, if it had been properly managed, should have been sustainable based on the success of the first Kickstarter- it certainly earned enough money.

Hahaha

I just thought, maybe RETRO magazine can be acquired by River West Brands and it'll be another forgotten brand they revitalize?



Edit: also, I don't know how Kickstarter sees the delivery obligation to the backers, but I helped a guy with a Kickstarter once and according to him Kickstarter does not let you transfer/sell off/pass your delivery obligation onto someone else. But maybe that guy was wrong. After all, Kickstarter is a paper tiger. They try to put protections in place but have very little reach after the creator gets the money.

That would be funny. If River West Brands were to swoop in and buy it. Hilarious. Seriously, don't give them ideas. I don't need competition on this.

Kickstarter, at worse, could probably only stop Mr. Kennedy from doing another Kickstarter of any kind. Though, he has proven plenty of proficiency at starting new companies and covering up his involvement. No proof he would not simply do that in the future if Kickstarter did attempt to impose some kind of sanction on him.

I think I got them all. Fire away, as long as I am not blindfolded and my back against a wall. I have thick skin, if you don't believe me, you should read some of the comments about my layout work in RGM #1 and #2 (they are still on our Facebook wall- I didn't delete them).

[dommie]

Question: Is your magazine currently in print? If so, I'd like to carry it in my store.

 

Although I've been following this whole chameleon debacle thread, I didn't put 2 & 2 together that RGM was your mag.

[triverse]

Question: Is your magazine currently in print? If so, I'd like to carry it in my store.

 

Although I've been following this whole chameleon debacle thread, I didn't put 2 & 2 together that RGM was your mag.

We are not currently printing. We are looking for additional staff after finding a much more affordable method of printing (costs are much lower). What is your store, if I may ask?

 

Believe me, you are not the only person to not make the connection. I have close to 100 e-mails from subscribers to RETRO that have confused my site/magazine with theirs over the last year or so. I don't do nearly a good enough job promoting RGM on forums such as AtariAge (I feel all spammy when I do mention it).

[elmer]

I'm honestly not sure. Retro Gamer as a UK publication, spends way too much focus on old computer games as opposed to consoles, something I and many Americans have little nostalgia for.

And as an crusty old ex-pat Brit, I have absolutely zero interest in the the Atari 2600, the ColecoVision, or the NES.

 

They had no significant presence in the UK except as rare grey-imports.

 

The myriad of different home-computer systems in the UK, and the ability for anyone-with-an-interest to program them, led to a huge talent-pool of highly-skilled programmers that were then recruited by American companies for developing games for the 4th generation (and later) consoles.

 

So ... Retro Gamer is much more my cup-of-tea than Mike Kennedy's RETRO, or Carl's Retro Gaming.

 

Different folks, different interests!

[triverse]

And as an crusty old ex-pat Brit, I have absolutely zero interest in the the Atari 2600, the ColecoVision, or the NES.

 

They had no significant presence in the UK except as rare grey-imports.

 

The myriad of different home-computer systems in the UK, and the ability for anyone-with-an-interest to program them, led to a huge talent-pool of highly-skilled programmers that were then recruited by American companies for developing games for the 4th generation (and later) consoles.

 

So ... Retro Gamer is much more my cup-of-tea than Mike Kennedy's RETRO, or Carl's Retro Gaming.

 

Different folks, different interests!

In issue #2 of RGM we began doing features on import computers and consoles (the Sharp X68000 was first). Future plans that may now see fruition may touch on platforms that are more your cup of tea (judging by the response we have gotten, there is plenty of interest for well crafted/presented pieces on import platforms).

[Andromeda Stardust]

First of all, thank you to everyone for your comments, concern and warnings. I am reading them and appreciate each and every one of them. This is not a situation that I am taking lightly, or cheaply.

Awesome that you are doig this Triverse. Where do I sign up. Also you owe me two back issues...