Has the video game bubble started to crack?

[Trooper Galactus]

I dunno.

 

Do collectors collect just to collect because the boxes look pretty when they're all organized? I mean what really really drives the collector, and why videogames. Just some rhetorical questions and fodder for discussion.

I'd confess to being a bit guilty of this. I like having the full CIB for my games, and I aim for it with every system I collect, though I'm hardly a perfectionist when it comes to that. Every Jaguar game I own is CIB, and I have boxes for the system, CD expansion, controller, multi-tap, and Jag-Link, which does look nice on my shelf and in my display case. SNES is the only system I haven't really made too much of an effort to get the boxes for, and that's mostly because the prices are beyond extortion these days. Sad, because that's probably the system I'm most sentimental for. Cartridges only are cheaper, but disc only games are practically a dime a dozen.

 

As for the bubble, nah, I'd say rare games are still going up, though some of the more common/uncommon ones are hitting a bit of a plateau as demand goes down. Boxes are definitely harder to collect, though, as they double or even triple the price of buying the cartridge alone in many cases, and CIB games do seem to continue trickling upwards in price.

[Professor Gull]

 

As for the bubble, nah, I'd say rare games are still going up, though some of the more common/uncommon ones are hitting a bit of a plateau as demand goes down. Boxes are definitely harder to collect, though, as they double or even triple the price of buying the cartridge alone in many cases, and CIB games do seem to continue trickling upwards in price.

Is the rare stuff more for bragging rites though? Don't get me wrong I love having stuff that's rare but most of my stuff was not bought that way just kept and not traded in or gotten rid of. I do though like to have this in boxes with manuals and I have my local game store sometimes when they price stuff the same with or without boxes or manuals.

 

Are game stores ( not Game Plop...Stop I mean) helping with the demand and sale? I know my place here when they get in pricey stuff it usually ends up online immediately so local guys don't even get a chance to contend which I don't like.

[Rick Dangerous]

There's just no point spending that kind of coin. I've gone the Everdrive/flash route for a lot of consoles and the more I think about it, the more I want to sell off a lot of stuff I have sitting around collecting dust.

 

"I wish I'd paid $300 for that cart instead of playing this free rom on hardware instead"

 

Said no one...ever.

 

 

I enjoy having new homebrew releases on cart myself, but i'm sure even then some would like/prefer the rom option:

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/245797-just-sell-me-the-homebrew-rom-with-pdf-manual/page-4?hl=%2Bjust+%2Bsell+%2Bme+%2Brom+%2Band+%2Bpdf&do=findComment&comment=3476190

 

The other thing that occurs to me is that as the economy tightens and the middle class feels the squeeze, us or future generations are likely to have less space, not more, so the luxury of having a dedicated "game room" and/or oodles of shelf space is something to consider when thinking about how you collect.

[Keatah]

Having a complete collection is really a losing battle because of all the filler you will have, I have come close with Jaguar and can't pull the trigger on the last few games I know are terrible and I will never play.

 

The older I get and the less time I have, I realize that I want to spend it PLAYING games and not collecting endless shelves of stuff. I think when I move in a few months I'm going to use it as an opportunity to make my collection lean and mean, and shed MANY games that i don't need to have in my collection. That's where the flash/SD carts come in. If you want to play "Shaq Fu" just to laugh at it with some friends, load up the ROM from your SD Cart. But if you want to play NBA JAM, maybe it is nice to pop in the cart you've had since Christmas 94' and play with a friend for nostalgia's sake.

 

I am a gamer and a collector and I see myself continuing to do both going forward. Thinning the collection to be lean and mean good condition high quality items, and getting SD carts for each system so I can explore the library when needed. I do believe classic gaming is in a bubble right now, most people I talk to about gaming barely remember Sega let alone Atari. The demand is artificial and is a result of greedy eBay re-sellers, news hype articles "your old videogame could be worth 12k!!," and sentimental sellers. I think some items will stay up due to sheer notoriety, but as these systems become more obscure prices will continue to drift downwards. I will be curious to see if there is an outright "pop" of prices, but have been noticing a drift downward for some items even these last 6 months.

 

Righteously said. The internet is "dangerous" in how it can create things in your head. These things can clash with reality in unpleasant and subtle ways.

 

And I do strongly believe these prices are terribly artificially inflated. I was reviewing my ebay purchase emails and records from the dotcom era and found that I purchased 2x 3.5" floppy drives for the Apple II, these are special High Density drives and store 1.44MB per disk and need a special controller card. Special to the Apple II and MAC, because 400K and 800K were the norm for much of the 90's on those platforms.

 

Well, I paid $12.00 each, and about $50'ish for the controller card back then. Today the drives actually trade hands for $200 or more, and the controller card recently sold on ePay for $700. Fuck'n crazy man. It's great the my stuff has appreciated in value. But how the hell is an average enthusiast supposed to get into and enjoy this stuff.

 

A new-in-box 3.5 drive just moved for $1,300. Insane man!

 

And totally yes. I 100% agree that these, "Your videogame could be worth 12K!!!!" articles instigate the un-knowledgable non-gamers and non-collectors to set crazy ebay prices. Clickbait, you know..

 

I also get pissed that people put ridiculously high prices on Buy-It-Now and the material sits there for years. Why not lower it a little and make a sale that gets you money, and someone their desired article instead of this deadlock?

 

Some sellers slowly crank the price up at every re-listing. And the shit doesn't sell either. The artificial demand and scarcity you're trying to create isn't working.

 

And one time I forgot to bid on something. I asked the seller to re-list it, they did, at 5x the price, from $10 originally to $50. Yeh, ok, sorry, but no deal. It's still sitting there. And was sitting there even at $10.

 

And now there's a Parallel Interface card listed for $500, nib though. I bet it will sit there for years.

 

The only thing that happens when you squat with a stomach full of shit is..

[Keatah]

"I wish I'd paid $300 for that cart instead of playing this free rom on hardware instead"

 

Said no one...ever.

 

You got that straight Slim!

 

Flashcarts and Emulation are true enablers and equalizers in this fight against high prices. The battle is long, but we'll win in the end.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Keatah

[Keatah]

 

Those stupid articles saying your stuff is worth money is total crap. I give Craigs people here who are local to me the spiel of " Ebay values it for this but to me this is worth X. Sell it on Ebay if you want those prices." It was strange like 3 months ago there was a weird rush on Atari 2600 stuff for a bit but that has since calmed down.

 

I am with you on just playing the games though its the nostalgia for the stuff from the past and not the crap of a complete set that matters. No desire to play Spiderman Web of Fire for 32X so nope not going to spend 250 plus for that one thanks.

 

I am also pretty truthful with folks passing into my local retro game place when they try to cash in on a box found in a storage and such. No one needs 50 copies of Madden......ever.

 

Correct. If you want ebay prices then go trade on ebay. Whenever I deal with someone in person and they mention "ebay sells it for this" It almost inevitably ends in a no-deal. Again because of the $$$-in-the-eyes syndrome.

 

I'll ask what does the item actually trade hands for, and to that I can't ever get an answer. At least not an answer I can verify in the completed listings section.

[Keatah]

I also believe that the nostalgia lies within the playing of the game, not a wall of cartridges. Nostalgia also comes from having the same games you had as a kid (preferably the exact same originals you owned), not a wall of cartridges complete with each label variation. It's nice to see the different styles of labels and try to remember what you had as a kid and all that. And, here, the internet will suffice and perhaps even enlighten you and introduce you to NEW variations.. If you get into that sort of thing.

 

A complete "label-variant" collection is exotic, rare, and of importance to only a few people. It'll garner a few oohs and ahhhs and wows from time to time, but that's about it. Might even get you in the newspaper. But to what end?

 

But I'd rather sit on my beanbag with a can of coke, wet hair after a shower, sack of potato chips, in front of the old Zenith 25" Chromacolor II, with parents away doing something.. And just play Superman or Adventure for the VCS. Stopping occasionally to read the manual looking for a hint. Not fret over a wall of cartridges.

 

---

 

With emulation and electronically stored scans & PDF's - this is a point in time anyone can relive forever. If you're not into emulation then perhaps flashcarts can help enable such activities.

[Keatah]

[..]

There's nothing to be mad per se about inflated prices, that's the law of supply and demand. Once they can't sell the prices come down as you experienced, by the way that's the market working its way.

It may be frustrating having to wait until the 2 (supply and demand) meet but that has always been the case.

 

Also many sellers are in only for the speculation, they may well have a lot of time they can wait to sell their stuff, others instead need to move inventory and thus lower the prices.

[..]

 

Not so sure about not being mad about inflated prices. The stuff doesn't move at those inflated prices. The prices never come down, and the goods sit there for months and years.

 

No one benefits, no sale, no game-playing, no good times. Deadlock.

[Keatah]

I actually prefer BIN's. Why go through the hassle of hanging around waiting for an auction to end when I'm perfectly happy with a BIN price that gets shipped almost immediately? I'll even pay a little more for the privelage. I don't care if you think I paid too much according to your standards you butthurt little snowflake! I'll be enjoying my game and you won't.

 

That's funny! Buy-it-now's for the win..

[Willard]

Since there seem to be more people arguing FOR the bubble than against it I'll add some thoughts against it And ftr my perception is more aligned with Nuclear Pacman's, as I've seen people complain for years all the while values have gone up. And I started buying when prices were low and kept buying as they rose because i like playing the games and owning the originals.

 

It's great the my stuff has appreciated in value. But how the hell is an average enthusiast supposed to get into and enjoy this stuff.

 

I have to wonder how much of the complaining about current prices is attributable to people who were early to retro gaming, saw prices fall and missed opportunities, and then saw them steadily rise to what they are today. At least in my case, I've been retro gaming long enough to feel a little sting when I pay today's prices for something I could've gotten for much less back then. But had I just started today, it'd be the expectation and maybe I wouldn't feel as apprehensive.

 

"I wish I'd paid $300 for that cart instead of playing this free rom on hardware instead"

 

Said no one...ever.

 

Of course, you don't actually lose anything by playing a free ROM. So logically it'd work the other way around and people would say "that free ROM was nice, I think I'd like to pay $300 for the game."

 

I think the most interesting question in this thread is why do people collect? Why do they like to have original physical games on their original platform? Even ones they don't even play? Especially when they exist as ROMs or are far cheaper on a digital platform like XBLA or Wiiware. That would explain if an alternative could ever quite eliminate the interest in the originals.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Willard

[Keatah]

The short version:

Collecting digital bit patterns can be the same as collecting cartridges.

 

The long version:

There's lots of theories as to why people collect. Animal instinct is probably top contender. Collecting cartridges and videogames is no different than knickknacks, baseball cards, electrical insulators, pottery.. whatever..

 

As time goes on there will continue to be a vocal minority screaming about purity, and that's alright. Let them maintain the heritage and roots for museums. I'm in it for the games.

 

I look at "the originals" as a state of affairs. A method of conveyance & distribution. The original cartridges and playback systems came about because of economics and technological limitations. Back in the 70's and 80's cartridges and masked roms were about the best we could do. The cartridge + console affair was merely a container for housing parts of a computer's internals in a consumer friendly way. A cartridge based console is nothing more than a castrated fixed-function computer. You essentially disconnect the stored program and place it on a shelf.

 

Fast forward to today. A HDD or other contemporary storage device can also store those same data bits. THE EXACT SAME BITS, the same size, shape, color, flavor, smell, you name it. And today's microprocessors can be made (by magic) to appear to behave like their early brothers and sisters. And once your modern-day microprocessor is following directions of an emulator, you can plug those cartridge data bits into it and enjoy the game just like back in the day. For all practical purposes the interplay between the data pathways and logic and memory array (in a PC) has become a VCS or Atari 800 or C-64. Like magic. Emulator magic. Not RetroVGS magic, mind you.

 

I don't believe emulation will 100% eliminate interest in the original hardware. But emulation is doing the heavy lifting today. More and more people are getting on the bandwagon. Some may not even realize it either! Look at all the console-based classic collections, the flashbacks, the PC-based emulators and dedicated rigs, the multi-game arcade machines, the R-Pi projects and installations..

 

So to transcend the physical realm of cartridges and consoles, one must understand that the essence formed out of the electrical patterns is what make the game the game. Only then can an emulator + rom gain importance for collecting.

 

Look at it this way. What about collecting cartridges do you like? Is it how they look lined up on a shelf? Is it that each one contains a program, an array of data bits? Both? Are they colorful? Do they lend physicality to a program?

 

It's all in the perspective. Once one learns to hoard digitally, the effect is the same. You're collecting tiny programs.

 

Well that's one way to look at it. I'm sure there are others.

[Professor Gull]

 

 

I think the most interesting question in this thread is why do people collect? Why do they like to have original physical games on their original platform? Even ones they don't even play? Especially when they exist as ROMs or are far cheaper on a digital platform like XBLA or Wiiware. That would explain if an alternative could ever quite eliminate the interest in the originals.

 

I had a friend who got back into collecting really wanted to complete his Xbox collection so nothing too impossible to get really. he also snagged up a Genesis and an N64 and was gifted,from his loyalist friends, a nice 7800 package. Now Atari loose carts are not so bad to come by typically but he was thinking of boxed and complete N64 and Genesis. Prices got to him so he dumped all the hardware and got to setting up MAME with everything he wants. I appreciate the change and its nice to have everything almost all in one machine.

 

I had to give it some thought to why collect. Besides wanting to play it and have my kids play stuff on original hardware I can't think of too many valid reasons beyond those and stuff collecting dust on shelves looking neat. I suppose if I ever move to a remote island the old stuff wont need internet connection as well so could we classify that as a "Doomsday Gamer Prepper?"

[Trooper Galactus]

I collect partly because I like the look, I like the nostalgia of having shelves full of games, I love history in all forms (and these games are living history at my fingertips), and I guess, yes, there's some bragging rights involved. It's not for everybody, and yes, it's more than a bit wasteful, but I have fun with it.

 

And Gull, whoever your friend is that wants the entire XBox collection, good luck to him. It's probably one of the more attainable collections to get these days, as not many of the games are exorbitantly expensive and the collection is just under 1,000 games total (unless he's trying to collect all the original and platinum editions and all that...then it starts getting silly). The PS2 collection is almost three times the size, and with a lot of pretty pricy games...possibly the worst one to try to complete. In the grand scheme of things, the Jaguar is probably one of the easier collections to complete overall.

[Professor Gull]

 

And Gull, whoever your friend is that wants the entire XBox collection, good luck to him. It's probably one of the more attainable collections to get these days, as not many of the games are exorbitantly expensive and the collection is just under 1,000 games total (unless he's trying to collect all the original and platinum editions and all that...then it starts getting silly). The PS2 collection is almost three times the size, and with a lot of pretty pricy games...possibly the worst one to try to complete. In the grand scheme of things, the Jaguar is probably one of the easier collections to complete overall.

 

Yeah he was gong to a Original issue collection complete. No platinum hits or variants but he wants them all CIB. I would love to do a JAG collection myself but some titles will be tough to bite to buy like stupid Atari Karts.

[Trooper Galactus]

T

 

 

Yeah he was gong to a Original issue collection complete. No platinum hits or variants but he wants them all CIB. I would love to do a JAG collection myself but some titles will be tough to bite to buy like stupid Atari Karts.

Even with the few really hard to find games, the Jag collection is the easiest one I've seen to really complete or come close to it. Battlesphere, BS Gold, and the original Air Cars are the only ones that might fetch a significant sum of money, and I think BS Gold probably tops out around $1200-1500. Compare that to the TurboGrafx-16/CD, which has a similar size library, but includes games like Magical Chase ($10-20,000 complete), Soldier Blade (over $2,000 complete), Legend of Hero Tonma (no idea, never even seen one sold), and many others that exceed $500 in a typical sale. Most other libraries are several times larger in addition to having hard-to-get games. Trust me, the Jag is a good system for those with a penchant for retro gaming, especially given the continuing commercial releases.

[Professor Gull]

So back to the topic (note to self get Jaguar collection rolling). Let me ask this since I know there are folks out there of all ages. When it comes to retire the collection will there be a flood? Generational meaning like 2040 lots of Atari stuff 2050 NES and so forth?

[Trooper Galactus]

So back to the topic (note to self get Jaguar collection rolling). Let me ask this since I know there are folks out there of all ages. When it comes to retire the collection will there be a flood? Generational meaning like 2040 lots of Atari stuff 2050 NES and so forth?

Hard to say. Depends on how much later generations value vintage games to keep demand up. From what I've seen, the average kid today barely even grasps how to operate an NES or even play first to fourth generation games.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Trooper Galactus

[+madman]

I really can't see future generations caring about Atari stuff in 20+ years, NES is about the earliest console I think that might still be somewhat relevant to future generations. I guess it also depends on if people sell off collections or their kids inherit them and dump them at thrift stores. It's amazing that even with readily available flash carts prices are still rising, who knows what'll happen in the future.

 

As for why people collect, the Lynx was the first system I set out to really collect the entire library and it's simply because I am a huge fan of the Lynx and the library is relatively small and, at the time, pretty cheap to acquire them all. Same with Vectrex, though I'm still working on that and prices have gotten crazy, then it was the 32X and Jag. Everything is stored in plastic bins in the closet, so it's not about things looking nice on a shelf.

[Keatah]

The average kid is into smartphones and tablets. Cartridges are irrelevant, and even a hassle to be avoided.

[Austin]

The pricing bubble is not about to burst. Prices keep going up and people keep willingly paying them.

[Professor Gull]

The pricing bubble is not about to burst. Prices keep going up and people keep willingly paying them.

 

Sadly I find that so true. I like to keep a tab on certain items just to see where they are going. Pricecharting and Rarity Guide are not always current but when I want something I tend to check them both for what seems an average price then scope Ebay for the lowest sells. Sadly many games on the wanted list are climbing and that is just not a good feeling.

 

I am gravitating to doing more active trades and sales on forums in the near future not saying that's an untapped resource but it seems to be a better possible way to get some stuff than hoped up prices.

[Trooper Galactus]

I really can't see future generations caring about Atari stuff in 20+ years, NES is about the earliest console I think that might still be somewhat relevant to future generations. I guess it also depends on if people sell off collections or their kids inherit them and dump them at thrift stores. It's amazing that even with readily available flash carts prices are still rising, who knows what'll happen in the future.

 

As for why people collect, the Lynx was the first system I set out to really collect the entire library and it's simply because I am a huge fan of the Lynx and the library is relatively small and, at the time, pretty cheap to acquire them all. Same with Vectrex, though I'm still working on that and prices have gotten crazy, then it was the 32X and Jag. Everything is stored in plastic bins in the closet, so it's not about things looking nice on a shelf.

I agree that NES is likely to be the only system to maintain some kind of value simply because the brand is such an institution its presence might cross generations as far as interest. I got the entire 32X collection in one fell swoop. For a system that was as non-prolific as it was, I was surprised that there's only two or three games for it that are really worth some scratch (Spider Man: Web of Fire and World Series Baseball starring Deion Sanders). Pretty easy one to complete, though there's pretty much nothing on it I'd deem a must have game.

[Professor Gull]

I agree that NES is likely to be the only system to maintain some kind of value simply because the brand is such an institution its presence might cross generations as far as interest. I got the entire 32X collection in one fell swoop. For a system that was as non-prolific as it was, I was surprised that there's only two or three games for it that are really worth some scratch (Spider Man: Web of Fire and World Series Baseball starring Deion Sanders). Pretty easy one to complete, though there's pretty much nothing on it I'd deem a must have game.

 

Its weird but i tend to think of the 32X and Jaguar to be more of a niche market deal. The newer Retrons for people who don't want bunches of consoles make it easy to go and get SNES,Genesis,Super Famicom,NES, Famicom stuff.

 

For the NES though lots of folks had them back in the day and pretty much everywhere I go I can find those carts out and about. But for the value of them some go up some go down. Some get ridiculous when You Tubers post videos on them (Sky Kid).

 

So what happens when the nostalgia craze goes down? I dont see it happening anytime soon sadly but I wonder if it will.

[+madman]

I got the entire 32X collection in one fell swoop. For a system that was as non-prolific as it was, I was surprised that there's only two or three games for it that are really worth some scratch (Spider Man: Web of Fire and World Series Baseball starring Deion Sanders). Pretty easy one to complete, though there's pretty much nothing on it I'd deem a must have game.

 

There are obviously better racers now, but I think Virtua Racing is worth picking up a 32X and the MK2 version is the best home port. But, without having been an active gamer at the time the 32X was out I can see the games largely being redundant. I mean, just load up MK2 on MAME and there you go.

 

 

Its weird but i tend to think of the 32X and Jaguar to be more of a niche market deal. The newer Retrons for people who don't want bunches of consoles make it easy to go and get SNES,Genesis,Super Famicom,NES, Famicom stuff.

Yeah, I'm honestly surprised at the Jag's popularity, as I mentioned elsewhere on here not too long ago the Jag is more popular now than it was in the mid-90's. It's a great little oddity in the video gaming world, as is the 32X but I'd definitely give the Jag the nod since it had many games not available on other platforms whereas the 32X contained a lot of barely better than Genesis games and games available on other platforms. There's certainly less oddity around the 32X's library than that of the Jag. Although to be fair the 32X doesn't seem to give off any fumes that cause conspiracy theories so that's a plus. Or a minus depending on your viewpoint I suppose.

[Rick Dangerous]

I got the entire 32X collection in one fell swoop., though there's pretty much nothing on it I'd deem a must have game.

 

Really? I'm more of a Jag guy myself but my 32x get plenty of play time. Must haves:

 

-Afterburner

-Blackthorne

-Darxide

-Doom

-Fred Couples Golf

-Metal Head

-Mortal Kombat II

-NBA Jam TE

-Shadow Squadron

-Space Harrier

-Star Wars Arcade

-T-Mek

-VIrtua Fighter

-Virtua Racing

 

Just the definitive versions of the Sega Arcade titles is worth the price of admission IMO