kogden Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) What about these Atarimax flash carts? They seem inexpensive, but I'm not exactly sure how they work/what they can run vs. a SIO2SD. They are flashable bank-switched cartridges. Flashing them with games is a lot more complex than using the SIO2SD. You can play cart images straight from them though. There aren't many games that haven't been introduced as file versions or ATR disk images so I never had much use for them. And IIRC the software to create images to flash to them costs money as well. The SIO2SD is the cheapest mass storage option that's practical if you want independence from a PC yet want to transfer downloaded software and games easily. You can get an uncased one for $30 + a cable. I made an enclosure for mine out of an empty cigarette pack using an X-Acto knife. Board is a perfect fit. It appears to the Atari as floppy drive(s). Just dump ATR disk images and XEX files on an SD card and go pretty much. SIO2PC is very cheap but your Atari needs to be tethered to a modern machine to make use of it. Edited June 27, 2016 by kogden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nd2003grad Posted June 29, 2016 Author Share Posted June 29, 2016 I finally have a unit...if you have SIO2PC, can you transfer to floppy and then run from that? I think that's what I'd like to do if given the choice...this whole cord deal for the SIO2SD seems like a real pain as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kogden Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) I finally have a unit...if you have SIO2PC, can you transfer to floppy and then run from that? I think that's what I'd like to do if given the choice...this whole cord deal for the SIO2SD seems like a real pain as well. SIO2PC just lets you use your PC as a floppy emulator, if you put a real Atari floppy drive in the SIO chain you can duplicate from the SIO2PC emulated drives to the real one but it's a giant PITA and you need a real Atari floppy drive (preferably a Happy-upgraded 1050) and need to understand how to use an Atari sector copier. It requires a fair amount of disk juggling too. I wouldn't attempt this unless you know what your doing, understand Atari disk formats and how SIO actually works. It has nothing to do with your PC floppy drive. There would be more cables involved in that solution than simply tightening a few screw terminals on a cut SIO cable for the SIO2SD. If you just want "easy" and want something mostly compatible with no cable hackery, get a MyIDE II cartridge. Or spend the extra few bucks for a cased SIO2SD w/ integrated cable. SIO2PC = A USB cable plugged into a TTL serial adapter integrated into an SIO connector or cable. To use it, your Atari has to be connected to your PC at all times. It is combined with software on the PC to allow your PC to emulate drives and other Atari peripherals. It has nothing to do with your PC floppy drive however, it just feeds ATR disk images straight to the Atari. SIO2SD = A small board with an SD slot that emulates several Atari floppy drives and pulls disk images off of SD card. It plugs into the SIO port just like the SIO2PC cable/adapter or a real floppy drive. MyIDE II = A cartridge-based IDE interface that uses CompactFlash cards, no cables required. You sacrifice some software compatibility and authentic floppy-like operation (SIO beeping, etc) but they work well and are simple to use. Edited June 30, 2016 by kogden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kogden Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) Oh and avoid the Atarimax SIO2PC USB interface unless you want to buy a copy of APE and be married to Windows. AspeQT, RespeQT, SIO2OSX and various other free SIO2PC software is not compatible with it last time I checked. The other SIO2PC interfaces use a standard FTDI FT232RL chipset and appear to the PC as a serial port. The Atarimax one is "special". Think of SIO as pre-historic USB. Many devices can be on the same SIO chain. Edited June 30, 2016 by kogden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nd2003grad Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 I knew I could count on you. This helps a lot. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nd2003grad Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 All right, kogden, since you know a lot about this--where does "Side" fit into this? I'm guessing that's the last question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kogden Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 All right, kogden, since you know a lot about this--where does "Side" fit into this? I'm guessing that's the last question. SIDE 2 is a simple cartridge-based IDE interface as well. It's most useful in combination with the "Ultimate 1MB" internal add-on which will let you use it as a more or less standards-compliant PBI IDE interface that integrates properly with the OS without relying on a weird loader or SpartaDOS X driver. Without Ultimate 1MB it's just as limited as MyIDE II when it comes to ATR support I'm pretty sure if not more so. That limits what you can run quite a bit. You can still play quite a few games with it. A cased SIO2SD or simple SIO2PC is really is your best bet as a plug-and-play device to run most anything. Oh, and if you bought a 16K machine like the 400 or 600XL, without RAM upgrades that require soldering you'll be VERY limited. Second-hand carts or cassettes would be your best bet at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizWor Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I sell completely restored ones..eightbitfix.com I take it you are single I'm trying to find an answer to this question, but not having much luck. I love the "look" of the 800, but I hear I need the 800XL. How much gaming ability is lost between these two? Trying to make an informed decision...Thanks! My everyday Atari is an XEGS with a couple MaxFlash carts and an SDrive. I managed to get compatible images for all the games I play or was able to use the MaxFlash builder software to make images compatible. The biggest advantages of the XEGS is out of the box graphics (composite) and out of the box compatibility. I'm not going to talk about reliability because all of these computers are 40ish and obviously reliable. I bought it because it was inexpensive. They are still relatively inexpensive. You should buy one because it is inexpensive and you can use it right out of the box. If you decide you are an Atari enthusiast and desire a more collectible console or want more ports or need specific compatibility, you can buy, restore, and upgrade your trophy machine at your leisure while playing with this one. (or just buy one of Paul's 1200xls.) Thank you all for this. I'm many years behind on this, as I started in the NES era due to my age (35) and only recently got a PS2. I have a Wii, but I use it almost exclusively for emulation. It's weird; my "gaming" passions straddle JRPG's mostly and dinosaur machines like 2600, Bally, Coleco, and INTV. The computer thing is new for me, I never had these machines but wished I did when compared to my parents' 8086 AT/T computer. I'm 100% decided I want to eventually go for Amiga, but for 8-bit I'm still thinking I guess. Like you guys have said, there's a lot to be said for both A8 and C64... I got through college with an Atari with an Epson LQ500 then an Epson Actionlaser II. In 1986, I began supporting MS DOS computers. We had three games -- King's Quest, NFL Challenge, and a golf game I cannot remember very well. It wasn't until 1991 that I thought a PC was competitive with my Atari (130XE at the time). Of course I paid $1500 for the 80286 computer then $200 for a sound card with a game port. I am interested in an Amiga. Right now, I find myself more interested in playing games than reliving history. Good luck and have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kogden Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 My everyday Atari is an XEGS with a couple MaxFlash carts and an SDrive. I managed to get compatible images for all the games I play or was able to use the MaxFlash builder software to make images compatible. The biggest advantages of the XEGS is out of the box graphics (composite) and out of the box compatibility. I'm not going to talk about reliability because all of these computers are 40ish and obviously reliable. Generally, complete XEGS machines are actually pretty expensive. And they had very cheap PCB construction and lack of socketed chips. They keyboard is nasty as well without replacement cups. I'll agree that composite looks good out of the box. As for reliability, I beg to differ. I have a 130XE that's needed RAM chips replaced, jumper wires installed in place of several SIO traces, caps had to be removed to make SIO reliable, etc. I'll take a good 800XL over a 130XE or XEGS any day. The XE was the cheap toy computer of the day, the ST was their main focus at that time and it shows. As far as being a toy to play retro games on, any of them will do really. If you want the actual "computing" experience, the XEGS is not a great choice. I wouldn't suggest an original 800 to anyone uncomfortable with contact cleaner, pencil erasers and basic hardware repair experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizWor Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Generally, complete XEGS machines are actually pretty expensive. And they had very cheap PCB construction and lack of socketed chips. They keyboard is nasty as well without replacement cups. I'll agree that composite looks good out of the box. As for reliability, I beg to differ. I have a 130XE that's needed RAM chips replaced, jumper wires installed in place of several SIO traces, caps had to be removed to make SIO reliable, etc. I'll take a good 800XL over a 130XE or XEGS any day. The XE was the cheap toy computer of the day, the ST was their main focus at that time and it shows. As far as being a toy to play retro games on, any of them will do really. If you want the actual "computing" experience, the XEGS is not a great choice. I wouldn't suggest an original 800 to anyone uncomfortable with contact cleaner, pencil erasers and basic hardware repair experience. As I said, I am not going to get into reliability. It's preposterous to debate the reliability of a working computer which was manufactured no later than 1992 when the XEGS was discontinued. I've never written a paper or typed a program on the XEGS, but I have used the keyboard for the types of things one uses a computer keyboard for and it's fine. I don't care if the chips are socketed because I do not plan to replace any of them. As for cost, I provided a link to a buy-it-now auction for a tested, working unit from a seller with very good feedback who has sold 44 units @$110 shipped. No gun, carts, or joystick, but a complete computer with keyboard. You can only use the light gun on a CRT, so a lot of people cannot use it anyway. The XEGM/S has composite out that looks fine on a modern television. As I said, it is the only Atari computer that will work with a modern television out of the box. You can get cables or video upgrade kits, but these add cost. As does additional memory. Never mind shipping. Never mind defective or incorrect parts or faulty installations. Any discussion of video grades begins with a take down of the XL video out... Although the s-video output on my Atari XEs always left a lot to be desired, when I finally got hold of an 800XL I was appalled by the quality of the display. Even after performing both of Ben Poehland’s SuperVideo Mods, I was still left with zigzag vertical stripes down the screen, grain, noise, and poor vertical definition. The fact I was still experiencing artifacting meant the luma and chroma signals still weren’t isolated, so more drastic action was required. I have been using an SIO2PC with an XEGS to flash carts for years. No problems. My storage is an SDrive -- which also uses that 'unreliable' SIO port. Not every Atari is a good game console. There are games that will not play on some consoles. Some carts will not play on every console. It took me a while to get Demon Attack on an XL/XE and I boucht an SDrive to allow saves in games like Seven Cities of Gold. M.U.L.E, Asteroids, and other games support four sticks. Except for the games requiring four game ports, I have had no problems running games on the XEGS. Not sure what a 'Computing Experience' is, but, for me, it does not include an Atari...not these days anyway. My first Atari was a 2600. My second was a 400. Even with its membrane keyboard, the 400 was an obviously superior game console -- unless you wanted to play Combat or some other 2600 game which never made it to the computers. (I have a Flashback just so I can play Combat. I'd have a Telstar Combat console if it came with composite out.) I learned BASIC on that 400's membrane keyboard and typed in many substantial Antic programs including Hookey. When I 'moved up' to an 800xl, I was able to play a lot of new games (Zaxxon, Bluemax) because it had 64k or memory and the keyboard was much better, but no more four player Asteroids. I stumbled across the XEGS sometime around 1991. I was waiting for a guy to sell me a pool table. It was in an adjacent store for $35. I wanted the light gun and the included games, so I bought it. The composite out was significantly better than the RF out I was accustomed to. Now the others sit in boxes while this thing sits on a table plugged into the composite in of a 15" lcd. Most of the games I play are on two Maxflash carts I made with my SIO2PC. I have an SDrive for the rest. When someone tells me they would like to play Atari games, I suggest the XEGS because they can plug it in and play (Missle Command is in the firmware). If they are shopping for specific games, I point them to cartridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kogden Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Like I said, if you want a toy to take out of the box, plug in and play retro games on the TV, the XEGS is perfectly fine but there's certainly nothing that will run on an XEGS that won't run on a stock 800XL or 64K 600XL. And most 400/800-only stuff has been patched since then. My late-model 130XE wouldn't drive the big stack of SIO gear without modification but single devices were fine. An XEGS is certainly no cheaper than most on the used/refurb market at this point. A 130XE is downright expensive. What I'm getting at is for "retrocomputing", the 800 or a nice 800XL are better machines. The 400 is neat, especially with 48K but the keyboard is brutal. For "retrogaming", an XEGS is pretty cool even if they are cheaply built. I enjoy coding, electronics work and restoring old gear including drives and printers that were around when I was little. I enjoy playing with designing hardware. I enjoy computing history and old software. If I just wanted the games, I'd get a USB Atari joystick adapter and a Raspberry pi, hook it up to the TV and run an emulator. The XE series was basically the machine you bought your kids to shut them up when you got yourself an ST, Amiga, Mac or even a PC (ick). As a general purpose computing platform, the Atari 8-bit was nearly dead when the XE came around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nd2003grad Posted July 5, 2016 Author Share Posted July 5, 2016 OK, quick other question...I know someone who is selling 5 1/4 disks. Is there anything specific for blank discs that will work on 800xl? For instance: 10-packs of NEW 5.25" DSDD Fuji disks. Color coded. Unformatted. Ideal for early IBM compatible systems (up to 360k), Commodore 64, 128, Atari 8-bit, Apple 2 and other computers. Does anyone know if these will work with 800XL and/or C64? I need some for both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentarian Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 DS/DD is exactly what you need. ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nd2003grad Posted July 5, 2016 Author Share Posted July 5, 2016 Cool! I was wondering about size but I think it's answered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nd2003grad Posted July 5, 2016 Author Share Posted July 5, 2016 Can you reformat/erase an old disc for this system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoSch Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Yes, you should. I have formatted loads of Netware disks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kogden Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Can you reformat/erase an old disc for this system? Yeah, if you have the right floppes.... single or double density.... just format them using your DOS of choice. Typical 1050 drives support single and "enhanced" density which gives you ~90K and 130K respectively. "Happy" 1050 drives and other real DD-capable drives give you about ~180K per side. With a notcher or creative use of an X-Acto knife you can use both sides of the disk. Avoid newer HD floppy disks (720K and 1.2MB floppies) as they can be unreliable in the old Atari drives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nd2003grad Posted July 5, 2016 Author Share Posted July 5, 2016 Thanks, all...I think I'm ready to roll. Ordered SIO2SD today as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Both Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Ordered SIO2SD today as well.A very good choice! If you're addicted enough, you can buy even more hardware without loosing the advantage of the Sio2SD. Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 There's never enough hardware....You just never know when you might need a bit... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kogden Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 A very good choice! If you're addicted enough, you can buy even more hardware without loosing the advantage of the Sio2SD. Stefan SIO2SD is very handy. My only complaint is the Atari-side image selection program doesn't work on a 400/800 and you have to struggle with the on-device menu. Mine stays connected to the 48K 400 in the living room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Didn't Phaeron patch the SIO2SD software to work on the 800? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kogden Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Didn't Phaeron patch the SIO2SD software to work on the 800? I didn't realize that, thanks for pointing it out. Will make things much more pleasant. I'm surprised it's not part of the official firmware distro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariGeezer Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) Here's the patch... http://atariage.com/forums/topic/237177-sio2sdxex-on-an-800/?do=findComment&comment=3219659 Edited July 8, 2016 by AtariGeezer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynxHandyCaster Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 I know it was touched on briefly in this topic earlier, but one factor in deciding which retro system to get might be "is it compatible with a modern HD TV?" I have a 130XE that I acquired about 15 years ago for less than $20 at a church bazaar. I had long ago gotten rid of my original 800XL so this was a fair replacement. A few years ago when the retro computer bug bit me, I considered dumping the still-working 130XE to go with an 800XL, which I consider a better looking system. But I discovered something: the 800XL does not support an S-video out (without a mod), but the 130XE does. I bought the S-video cable for less than $15 and my output from the 130XE to a fairly modern HD TV is perfect. Just something to consider for anyone in the market for a vintage Atari 8-bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.