ATR Files to Real Disks?

[+DjayBee]

49 minutes ago, NewKillerAmerica said:

So, I’ve managed to load DOS3, and the duplicate disk option.

Neither Atari DOS 2 nor DOS 3 are capable to handle Double Density disks (see DD, 180k in RespeQt).

Also a stock 1050 is not capable to read or write this format.

 

If you retry with a 90k or 130k image it should work with your setup.

Edited June 14, 2022 by DjayBee

[NewKillerAmerica]

Thanks DJayBee

 

I tried this Disk Utilities 90k .atr, and got this error:

 

Please forgive my ignorance on this topic.  I’d love to figure this out though.

[+gnusto]

On 12/30/2020 at 3:47 PM, DrVenkman said:

I don't think the Infocom disks are copy-protected though, are they?

Don't believe they are, they used the physical materials distributed with the games as copy protection when they wanted that. Which were sometimes actually fun and clever (I'm looking at you, Leather Goddesses scratch and sniff).

[machf]

On 6/14/2022 at 4:48 PM, NewKillerAmerica said:

Thanks DJayBee

 

I tried this Disk Utilities 90k .atr, and got this error:

 

Please forgive my ignorance on this topic.  I’d love to figure this out though.

For DD disks, try TopDOS or MyDOS, which can handle that density... but you'll need a DD-capable FDD like the XF551.

 

Here you're using Atari DOS to duplicate the SD disk, right? But I think if the disk you're trying to copy wasn't formatted by the same version of DOS, it won't recognize it properly. The "Duplicate Disk" option in Atari DOS'es is not a sector copier... it basically reads the VTOC info to copy the contents. If you can use a sector copier, it may allow you to get the proper results.

What if you try the other way around? Boot from that .ATR image as D1: (if it's named "Disk utilities", I guess it may have a sector copier in it) and copy it to the physical disk in your 1050 FDD set up as D2:

[NewKillerAmerica]

4 minutes ago, machf said:

What if you try the other way around? Boot from that .ATR image as D1: (if it's named "Disk utilities", I guess it may have a sector copier in it) and copy it to the physical disk in your 1050 FDD set up as D2:

I'm going to head over and give this a try.  Will report back, thanks machf!

[NewKillerAmerica]

Well, I can't seem to get that to work either.  I have to be missing something simple, I just can't seem to figure it out.

Thanks everyone for your time replying, I'll give it a shot another time. ?️

Edited June 16, 2022 by NewKillerAmerica

[Chri O.]

In my experience with atr files - they don't follow the right size lots of times:

Single density images are 92,176 bytes long.

Enhanced density images are 133,136 bytes long.

Double density images are 183,952 bytes long.

+ 16-byte ATR header.

They might not even have any file directory structure (No way you can just use any DOS).

 

The only way to copy is sector to sector and even that might not work.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Chri O.

[Chri O.]

The first 3 sectors of an Atari disk ATR IMAGE must be 128 bytes long even if the rest of the sectors are 256 bytes or more.

Well guess what there are some ATR files with all 256 byte sectors ignoring the first 3 sectors must be 128 bytes long rule.

[+Larry]

Here are a couple of things that might help.

 

First, a previous thread, but note that this one is aimed at using a PC drive (not recommended), but still contains useful info:

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/168083-transferring-atr-images-to-actual-atari-disks-on-pc-drive/

 

Second, use this PC tool to correct the image size:

ATRImageCorrector.exe

[machf]

Ah, yes, WriteATR... I used that back then in the 90s on my PC. I found out that, although it could write DS/DD (360KB) .ATR images to disk, the second side would be reversed... I guess the Atari 8-bit and the PC count tracks on  the second side in the opposite direction (one from the inside outward, the other from the outside inwards, but I can't recall which is which). Or was that MyUtil when writing files to a 360KB disk?

[+kheller2]

On 6/15/2022 at 8:32 PM, NewKillerAmerica said:

Well, I can't seem to get that to work either.  I have to be missing something simple, I just can't seem to figure it out.

Thanks everyone for your time replying, I'll give it a shot another time. ?️

What I see missing by looking at your pics is that you are trying to copy a DD 180K image to a disk drive that can’t handle that.  
let’s start with some basics:  

find a Dos 2.x atr in SD 90K boot that with the 1050 set as drive 2.  
Place disk in the 1050 and use the format command to D2.  
then write out the dos files to D2:

 

Stop the Pc software, set the 1050 to D1 and see if you can boot the disk.  
 

once you got that, we’ll move on to sector copies.  

[NewKillerAmerica]

Thanks everyone for the replies.  Larry has also given me some assistance and food for thought which has been awesome-  I am entering my busy time of my week with work in about an hour here, but by mid-Saturday I'll be back on this project.  ?  It's interesting how much there is to learn on this topic, existing in mostly modern computing myself! 

 

Thanks all-

[Tempest]

Reviving this topic because I actually have time to screw around with it now.  Re-reading everything I have several questions:

 

1. Where can I find this ATR2DSK software?  I've searched but I can't seem to find it.

 

2. Failing that, @ijor had mentioned something called a 10502PC.  I found a page that sells this device but I wonder if I already have one. Is this a 10502PC?  Is there a way to tell if it's a 10502PC or just a regular SIO2PC device?

 

3. If my device is not a 10502PC, can someone explain how to use a regular SIO2PC device to make real disks from ATR images?

 

4. Is there a better way to do this now?

 

 

 

[flashjazzcat]

12 hours ago, Tempest said:

Is there a better way to do this now?

Since you have Incognito, a fast way to duplicate ATRs is to mount the disk image using the Incognito Loader on one drive, and your real floppy on another drive number, and run a sector copier to duplicate the ATR on the actual floppy. The FAT-hosted ATRs read rather fast and you do away with the need for a second SIO device in the chain. I was proposing to implement a built-in means of doing Floppy->ATR and vice versa in the SIDE3 loader (there isn't room on the Incognito, unfortunately).

[Tempest]

1 hour ago, flashjazzcat said:

Since you have Incognito, a fast way to duplicate ATRs is to mount the disk image using the Incognito Loader on one drive, and your real floppy on another drive number, and run a sector copier to duplicate the ATR on the actual floppy. The FAT-hosted ATRs read rather fast and you do away with the need for a second SIO device in the chain. I was proposing to implement a built-in means of doing Floppy->ATR and vice versa in the SIDE3 loader (there isn't room on the Incognito, unfortunately).

What sector copier do you recommend?  

 

I have a modified 1050 with a speed loader (it's not Happy, it's the other really popular one that I honestly can't recall the name of at the moment).  I assume that will work just fine.  If not I may have an unmodified 810 around here somewhere.

[flashjazzcat]

I generally just use the HDSC tool that comes with SpartaDOS X (on its toolkit disk). I'm sure others will be able to recommend menu-driven floppy duplicators.

[scitari]

Here are step by step instructions on how to copy ATR files from your PC to a real floppy disk. This uses RespeQT, SIO2PC, and Copymate. I just went through this, and it works great!

 

Write Atari 8-Bit Computer ATR Files from Your PC to a Real Floppy Disk Using the RespeQT Peripheral Emulator Software and an SIO2PC Adapter (15-30 minutes) – Atari Projects

[+Larry]

6 minutes ago, scitari said:

Here are step by step instructions on how to copy ATR files from your PC to a real floppy disk. This uses RespeQT, SIO2PC, and Copymate. I just went through this, and it works great!

 

Write Atari 8-Bit Computer ATR Files from Your PC to a Real Floppy Disk Using the RespeQT Peripheral Emulator Software and an SIO2PC Adapter (15-30 minutes) – Atari Projects

That's a nice tutorial!  I prefer APE, but for this it's pretty much same as.  An issue that I've always had with RespeQt is that the drag-and-drop does not work reliably.  In fact, it mostly doesn't work at all. 

[+DjayBee]

5 hours ago, Larry said:

That's a nice tutorial!  I prefer APE, but for this it's pretty much same as.  An issue that I've always had with RespeQt is that the drag-and-drop does not work reliably.  In fact, it mostly doesn't work at all. 

This has been fixed in RC1. 

Latest release is RC4