Thinking about getting back into the Atari 5200 after 30+ years (QUESTIONS)

[Omega-TI]

Yeah, it's true about the price. I'm asking $120 for mine in the marketplace, and then after shipping this excessively large and heavy unit (especially the power pack is about 5 lbs), factor in over $20-25 for shipping, Gabriel's estimate is right in line.

 

Thanks. At the moment, I've been contacted by another Atari Age member that has multiple units. I'll waiting to see what he has before I even consider other options.

[Keatah]

Something to keep in mind about the 5200 is that it's a system which requires you to be faithful. The 5200 isn't a system to casually mess with. It's a system you have to show a level of devotion to. If the 5200 is a major focus of your retrogaming, then you'll probably enjoy it. If the 5200 is just something you want to fiddle with on rare occasions, then you're going to get frustrated.

 

Why is that? And why does that make it different depending on frequency of usage?

 

I would guess that once you've modernized it and gave it a full dose of PM it should be like any other system.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Keatah

[Gabriel]

 

Why is that? And why does that make it different depending on frequency of usage?

 

I would guess that once you've modernized it and gave it a full dose of PM it should be like any other system.

 

It's a bit of a hangar queen.

As long as it's getting regular use, it's fine. But if it sits for an extended period of time, it's going to need a bit of maintenance before playing again.

It somewhat boils down to the controllers. I don't know why it is, but while they're being used regularly, they're fine. It's only after periods of disuse that they start to have problems. On original sticks the button contacts would fail, requiring cleaning or complete refurbishment. Even on gold sticks, the sticks have a tendency to drift and require adjustment.

Also, with the 5200 you're constantly changing controllers. For all the talk of the alternate digital solutions, there are some games those flatly won't work with, requiring the use of the original or a Wico analog. Then there are trackball games.

The Pokey chip drifts over time. That throws off the controllers too, and requires opening up the system every once in a while to do some readjustment. Also, there are certain games which don't auto adjust for the values the controllers can send to the system and instead just rely on absolute values. To get those to work you have to adjust the Pokey to values which allow left/right/up/down to work.

It's all very minor stuff, but compared to something like a 2600 which can sit unused for ages with no problem and played confidently with a joystick conroller like the day it was new, it's a bit of work.

[Keatah]

I had (among many other consoles) a 5200 back in the day. It was reliable as any other, including the funky powered switchbox configuration. I guess they did that strictly out of aesthetics. One wire. And it jibed with the style of the storage for the controllers. A clean look. I always thought Syd Mead designed the console. It would be right at home in many of his works. And it still looks modern today. In fact I wouldn't mind getting a couple of units (beyond repair) of course, and converting them into modern PC housings. Blasphemy? Eh.. They were non-working units to begin with.

 

Anyhow. The main attraction was the imposing styling. Big. Futuristic. Unfortunately my ownership the of the 5200 coincided directly with the Atari 400/800 and I was hard-pressed to find a difference between its games and the computer's games. I suppose that's what "non-plussed" me the most about it. As a kid I didn't fully understand re-purposing and re-using an existing design. It's like the difference between standard, LE, or SE for cars. Same design, same parts, badged differently. And thus my library of carts never went much beyond what Toys'R'Us and KayBee stocked. I couldn't afford to be getting the same identical games on two similar machines (800 & 5200).I really really wanted there to be something different about the 5200. Maybe find some special capability it alone had. Find something only it could do, something the computer lineup couldn't.

 

It's not so bad though. Today I call all the 400/800, 600xl, 800xl 1200xl, 1450xld, 65xe, 130xe, xegs, and 5200 units the "Atari 8-Bit" lineup and leave it at that. Since I game by emulation Altirra provides nice coverage of everything "Atari 8-bit".

 

But overall it is good to watch the 5200 re-gaining respect and desire among vintage gamers.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Keatah

[Keatah]

It's a bit of a hangar queen.

As long as it's getting regular use, it's fine. But if it sits for an extended period of time, it's going to need a bit of maintenance before playing again.

It somewhat boils down to the controllers. I don't know why it is, but while they're being used regularly, they're fine. It's only after periods of disuse that they start to have problems. On original sticks the button contacts would fail, requiring cleaning or complete refurbishment. Even on gold sticks, the sticks have a tendency to drift and require adjustment.

Also, with the 5200 you're constantly changing controllers. For all the talk of the alternate digital solutions, there are some games those flatly won't work with, requiring the use of the original or a Wico analog. Then there are trackball games.

The Pokey chip drifts over time. That throws off the controllers too, and requires opening up the system every once in a while to do some readjustment. Also, there are certain games which don't auto adjust for the values the controllers can send to the system and instead just rely on absolute values. To get those to work you have to adjust the Pokey to values which allow left/right/up/down to work.

It's all very minor stuff, but compared to something like a 2600 which can sit unused for ages with no problem and played confidently with a joystick conroller like the day it was new, it's a bit of work.

 

 

I see. I might attribute the fail-without-use situation of the controllers to be some sort of film build-up. A build-up because of Oxygen reacting and corroding the conductive coating on the elastomeric/rubber buttons. Same might happen with the meshwork contacts where the button shorts it closed. A few-uM-thick insulating layer forms. Regular use breaks it down and floats it away on whatever air currents are present in the controller. Seen this happen with remote controls and other rubber buttons.

 

What I didn't know is the POKEY chip drifting. I can understand it drifting and changing electrical characteristics with temperature as the unit warms up. But I didn't know it drifts enough over time to warrant adjusting. Is there a potentiometer adjustmet? Or does one swap out certain resistors..? And is it just the button values that needs a-fixin'?

[bohoki]

the analog only games are superbreakout,kaboom,gorf,missile command,star wars

 

other games use analog but are playable with digital sticks

 

just some info

[Gabriel]

 

What I didn't know is the POKEY chip drifting. I can understand it drifting and changing electrical characteristics with temperature as the unit warms up. But I didn't know it drifts enough over time to warrant adjusting. Is there a potentiometer adjustmet? Or does one swap out certain resistors..? And is it just the button values that needs a-fixin'?

 

Pot adjustment.

[Omega-TI]

Well, here is the starter system I'll be buying I purchased. It'll be fun to see how far the down the rabbit hole I go with the 5200 during 2017. I'm actually kind of stoked.

 

To start off I'll only have Missile Command, but it's all good, as an AtariMax cartridge will be in my future.

 

Thanks everyone for your help, information and suggestions!

 

Edited January 16, 2017 by --- Ω ---

[Tombstone]

I think if you are getting a multi-cart then the potential rabbit hole you're going down would be a short one, albeit enjoyable. Wanted to mention that if you indeed are looking into a Masterplay then be sure to get one with the additional button that came with it. I see many for sale that do not include it and it is likely that you will play some of the games that utilize that second button. I've attached a link with a picture of what the button looks like. It plugs into the Masterplay unit via wire. You can then tape or velcro it to whatever controller you are using, assuming said controller only has one button. I can't remember if you use a Genesis controller if it will recognize two buttons off of that, but others here would know. Good luck and enjoy!

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Atari-5200-Masterplay-Interface-Joystick-Adapter-Tested-COMPLETE-RARE-/332079941190?hash=item4d5181c646:g:2uIAAOSw241Ya5Vi

Edited January 16, 2017 by Tombstone

[+Cafeman]

I can't remember if you use a Genesis controller if it will recognize two buttons off of that, but others here would know.

 

Nope. I use the original Masterplay , and it only recognizes one Genesis controller button. I had to connect the 2nd "button on a wire" to the controller using tape and/or sticky Fun-Tak stuff for those 2-button games, which is not an ideal solution to be honest. For this reason I prefer the 5200 stock controller on 2-player games like Moon Patrol and Countermeasure.

 

It also has a Y-cable. Both the Genesis and the 5200 controller are simultaneously plugged-in to the 5200. You use the stock 5200 for Start / Pause / Reset / Keyboard functions.

[Cobra Kai]

I wonder if the trick of cutting the gray wire inside a Genesis controller would work. I've read people do this to get them working with a power base convertor.

[Tombstone]

Nope. I use the original Masterplay , and it only recognizes one Genesis controller button. I had to connect the 2nd "button on a wire" to the controller using tape and/or sticky Fun-Tak stuff for those 2-button games, which is not an ideal solution to be honest. For this reason I prefer the 5200 stock controller on 2-player games like Moon Patrol and Countermeasure.

 

It also has a Y-cable. Both the Genesis and the 5200 controller are simultaneously plugged-in to the 5200. You use the stock 5200 for Start / Pause / Reset / Keyboard functions.

 

Thanks for the clarification. That is good info to know.

[BIGHMW]

 

Nope. I use the original Masterplay , and it only recognizes one Genesis controller button. I had to connect the 2nd "button on a wire" to the controller using tape and/or sticky Fun-Tak stuff for those 2-button games, which is not an ideal solution to be honest. For this reason I prefer the 5200 stock controller on 2-player games like Moon Patrol and Countermeasure.

 

It also has a Y-cable. Both the Genesis and the 5200 controller are simultaneously plugged-in to the 5200. You use the stock 5200 for Start / Pause / Reset / Keyboard functions.

 

Ohhhh, I wish you were around a few years back to the day when Albert himself manufactured his famous Redemption 5200 adapters (made out of old 5200 cartridge shells with both 9-pin and 5200 controller connectors and wiring and 5200 plug sticking out), I have 2 units each for the 2600/Sega and 7800 sticks (they also had Redemption units for PC controllers too), which also utilizes the 5200 controller keypad functions on it as well as the digital sticks themselves, but yes, even those won't work with the analog games (Gorf, Missile Command, Super Breakout, Kaboom! and Star Wars - The Arcade Game) but, they will work with all the others with the 2600/Sega, PC, or 7800 sticks depending on the unit you choose.

 

Sometimes what I use might be either the 7800 adapter with the CX24 and the CX52, or.... perhaps my Wico 2600 Ball-handled stick and the even-more-rare Wico 5200 keypad (this touch-tone telephone phone-quality keypad is AN ABSOLUTE MUST for any 5200 owner!!!), but, the 9-pin port onboard it only works with the Wico 5200 stick analog itself (usually the two are packaged together or the stick is also available sold separately with a Y-adapter for the 5200 CX52 stick's keypad).

[Omega-TI]

Good News!

I received my Atari 5200 in the mail today! I got it all hooked up and it works. At first I thought it didn't work because it was set to output on channel 2 and I was checking channels 3 & 4.

Anyway, I was fortunate enough to have an extra converter laying around to put on the RF cable so I could screw it into the back of the TV.

It's interesting how people remember things, I don't remember the picture being quite so dark. Even after adjusting everything on the TV, it's still not as bright and contrasty as I would like or remember. I guess I've been spoiled by VGA over the years.

Moved from another thread because of a mis-post

[Omega-TI]

After getting used to seeing prices on Ebay that I have no problem passing up, someone out there had a price so low that even I had click on it. $4.95 for Pole Position... with shipping included? Oh heck yes!

 

 

[Tombstone]

LOVE that you are having fun with this!

[Omega-TI]

LOVE that you are having fun with this!

 

Oh yeah, I'm having a blast and a half. I'll eventually get an AtariMax cartridge, but the price on this one was just calling out to me.

Now if I see a Pengo and a Qix for the same price I'll bite on them too!

[Keatah]

Dear god, how can you possibly have half a blast? That's like half of a hole!

Edited January 20, 2017 by Keatah

[Tombstone]

Dear god, how can you possibly have half a blast? That's like half of a hole!

Half a blast creates half a hole, everyone knows that

[Keatah]

It's interesting how people remember things, I don't remember the picture being quite so dark. Even after adjusting everything on the TV, it's still not as bright and contrasty as I would like or remember. I guess I've been spoiled by VGA over the years.

 

I'm sure it's a "little bit of everything" vs. how you remember it. Aged electronics and aged eyes VS optimistic memory, rose colored nostalgia goggles, excitement. It's all gonna be a little different.

[Omega-TI]

 

I'm sure it's a "little bit of everything" vs. how you remember it. Aged electronics and aged eyes VS optimistic memory, rose colored nostalgia goggles, excitement. It's all gonna be a little different.

 

So true! BTW - I recorded for posterity the first game of Missile Command I played in decades...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcueopTwp8o&feature=youtu.be

 

Please don't laugh too hard at the final score!

[Tombstone]

 

So true! BTW - I recorded for posterity the first game of Missile Command I played in decades...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcueopTwp8o&feature=youtu.be

 

Please don't laugh too hard at the final score!

Who cares about the score, look at the incredible responsiveness of that stock controller. Who cleaned and fixed that thing anyways?!?!?

 

[Omega-TI]

Who cares about the score, look at the incredible responsiveness of that stock controller. Who cleaned and fixed that thing anyways?!?!?

 

 

Yeah.... "the guy" did a great job!

Once I get the console cleaned up... the next phase(s) will start.

 

1) Considering the composite video upgrade.

2) AtariMax cartridge

3) Some kind of super joystick...

 

As of now, the stock unit is working fine and I'm happy as a bunny in a carrot patch. I'll be even happier when my Pole Position cartridge arrives.

[Tombstone]

Sounds like a great plan to me.

[+Cafeman]

 

Ohhhh, I wish you were around a few years back to the day when Albert himself manufactured his famous Redemption 5200 adapters

 

I was around back then, but I was satisfied with my stock controllers and my Masterplay so I ignored the redemption adapters. I figured I could always buy one later. I didn't count on them being discontinued. So oh well - you snooze, you lose.

 

Anybody who has paid attention to my posts since the early 2000's knows I was a big 5200 fan. But the system's controllers have caused me to raise the white flag of defeat. I have a trak-ball that doesn't work well (even after maintaining it with new roller switches years back), my stock controllers have problems even after cleaning them. I think my 5200 Pokey needs adjusted since I have trouble going left in many games, even after trying to adjust the sticks. So I emulate, and leave the OG equipment in my closet .