Retroblox

[xiaNaix]

No, you can clearly see that Tekken was listed as a "continue playing" which I guess means it was savestated. When you launch that 'tile' it'd have to tell you to insert the matching disc (which it couldn't efficiently positively confirm, thus permitting the possibility of later dysfunction). This isn't how I would have done the UI.. I'd prompt you to load the state (if there was one) when you launch the game, and the "now playing" (not yet playing) "tab" that they launch tekken from definitely doesn't offer that option. So I can fault them for poor choices in UI design, but this evidence isn't automatically damning.

 

Wrong! In the Retro Hi-Def video Tekken 3 is listed in the "favorites" section before he even inserts the disc. The person behind the camera asks "These are games backed up onto the system?" and the representative from Retroblox replies "Yeah, we previously backed these guys up."

[Tusecsy]

I agree this thing would have a market for those less inclined or uninformed, if it were merely a cd-based retron. But we all know this isn't the case. They are obviously using hijacked emulators to run an iso, while making glorious smoke filled claims.

 

I find it utterly hilarious that all the same big name youtubers are rushing to support this thing, obviously nobody learned their lesson with the CONeleon, and I find this a sad statement on the community. We'll see what Pat has to say about it today, he's usually appropriately skeptical on matters such as this.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Tusecsy

[Keatah]

It's about the tactile feel of a cherished possession. It's about showing your reverence in a ritual way (try to set aside any scoffing at reverence undergird by emulation. That's a theological subject.) Rituals are supposed to be inconvenient. It's the out-of-the-wayness that makes it special. It's about following the same steps youve stepped every day since you were a child, inserting the disc and reading the manual while the game spins up. All your talk of convenience amounts to "wouldn't it be more more convenient to look at pictures of mecca for a couple of hours"? or "hey punk rockers, you could sweat a lot less if you just put a tape in a boombox and let that play". Museums and TBs of isos preserve. These guys re-enact.

 

All that is a separate question from how he knows what the market is, which is a good question. That there's a demand is indisputable. The rest is questionable.

 

I understand and appreciate the rituals and procedures of working with old hardware we've grown up with. It isn't something I care to repeat every single gaming session though. Not today. The long nights of sitting on the floor playing ColecoVision or Atari VCS, reading the manual, fantasizing about what games will be like in 5 years. Dreaming up competitions, reading EGM, frozen dinners, imaginary Lunar Lander adventures.. all that. That's cool. And is even cooler with reliable modern hardware full of customizable options.

 

My wish is an all-in-one. Ever since I was a kid I dreamed of ridding myself of all the bulk and tediousness physical cartridges and systems create. Not forgetting the entourage of wires and accessories that seem to accumulate as one partakes in the hobby. In other posts I've talked at length about having an all-in-one system that is capable of playing every videogame ever made. Past. Present. Future.

 

And while the scope of this this RetroBlox project doesn't cover EVERY game. It's still a step in the right direction. The system that comes closest to handling every game is robust x86 emulator box - perhaps augmented with R-Pi and Z3K. All of which can be fitted into a set-top compact case. 1 rig to rule them all.

 

But I have yet to see these projects become more than a cover band. Get it together. Come out with a performance so stellar it outshines even the original it's based on.

[Keatah]

I grew up with instant load cartridges. And ISOs can provide much of that speed when read from modern-day PC hardware.

 

Maybe I'd think different if I was seriously into (and grew up with) a PS1. But I didn't. So slow CD access times are a major annoyance. Not to mention constant updating - but that's a whole other topic, the incessant updating..

[Keatah]

I see ZERO appeal in preserving physical CD playback, when they're easily duplicated or ripped using everyday consumer tech.

 

CD playback is really just the act of reading data at a slow rate, compared to SSD or even HDD.

 

Cartridges were adopted in the old days because it was how a consumer could change the program in a fixed-function computer without touching circuitry. Born of a need. Buffed and polished by marketing. It's this hi-gloss we like, and comes in several forms like the heft, the shape, the mmmmmnn-mmmmm smaacckk tssss of a wall of carts looking ohh so cool. The repeating pattern of colors of things on a shelf. The console interacting with the data in the cartridge ROM gates. The cartridge comes alive!

 

The same craftsmanship and care never ever went into CD-ROMS. Ohh there was glorified packaging and all that. And that helps a little. But CDs, sorry to say, are pretty soul-less for interactive gaming. Very utilitarian. Very much like a slow windows98 computer loading games. And I bought CDs back in the day, too.

 

Music, however, is different. Still have and fondly enjoy my first music CD.

Emulation is also different, having all the consoles and games virtualized into a small silicon crystal. Now that is pure magic!

[godslabrat]

We'll see what Pat has to say about it today, he's usually appropriately skeptical on matters such as this.

 

He did say before leaving for SoCal RGE that he was aware of the project and did not want to comment on it until he'd seen it firsthand. Hopefully that means he DID see it firsthand and is ready to comment.

[godslabrat]

How do you know there is demand for such a box?

 

 

 

How do you know what people would be willing to pay?

 

 

 

Well, I know I'd be interested in one, and it seems to be a popular request when clones are announced. It even made a mention on a CUPodcast episode, with Ian noting that he hears lots of requests for it. As for what they will pay, I can only assume that the price would stay below $200, since that appears to be the ceiling on clone cosoles, and it's also a price that's not really out of anyone's reach.

 

 

Help me understand the appeal of a fragile, spinning CD instead of an ISO file, in an age when storage is cheap and plentiful.

Is it about easy plug-n-play preservation for childhood memories? A way to replace busted old hardware that won't spin discs anymore? A way to hook up the same to HDMI displays?

 

Yes, yes, and yes. All of those are factors.

 

And it comes down to, I have the discs, I'd like to use them. I still have a lot of fun pulling out obscure, goofball titles with friends and family, and to be honest, having that physical disc always gets more "WOW"s than pulling out a ROM or ISO. Yes, the game is the same, and I'm glad the pure emulation option is there. And early CD titles especially were prone to a reaction of "What were they THINKING?". It's wild enough playing a game based on Marky Mark, but then to look at the box and disc and think Holy shit, someone actually took this idea seriously. It was someone's job to sell this as being awesome.

 

Yeah, I know I can whip up something with a $10 iBuffalo controller and an emulator I downloaded. Trust me, I do that too. But I'm not done using discs just yet.

Edited February 15, 2017 by godslabrat

[Keatah]

And it comes down to, I have the discs, I'd like to use them. I still have a lot of fun pulling out obscure, goofball titles with friends and family, and to be honest, having that physical disc always gets more "WOW"s than pulling out a ROM or ISO. Yes, the game is the same, and I'm glad the pure emulation option is there. And early CD titles especially were prone to a reaction of "What were they THINKING?". It's wild enough playing a game based on Marky Mark, but then to look at the box and disc and think Holy shit, someone actually took this idea seriously. It was someone's job to sell this as being awesome.

 

Yup. I always have to go through this preamble speech like routine when showing off the emulation rig. I have to begin with titles everyone is familiar with, otherwise it's just another dumb game.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Keatah

[godslabrat]

 

Yup. I always have to go through this preamble speech like routine when showing off the emulation rig. I have to begin with titles everyone is familiar with, otherwise it's just another dumb game.

 

And in this day and age, some people just don't believe something is "real" if you can't show them a physical disc. Something like Shaq-Fu or Plumbers Don't Wear Ties could likely be written off as an internet joke made by someone with too much free time (to be fair, it's happened before).

[zeromus]

 

Wrong! In the Retro Hi-Def video Tekken 3 is listed in the "favorites" section before he even inserts the disc. The person behind the camera asks "These are games backed up onto the system?" and the representative from Retroblox replies "Yeah, we previously backed these guys up."

Wrong! It's in the "Continue Playing" section. The "Favorites" section contains four entries only: Henshin engine, Caverns of Death, SM All Stars, SMW.

The person behind the camera asks, "these are backed up games onto the system?" while the cursor is on "favorites". The cursor now goes down to "continue playing" when the answerer replies "yeah, *these* ones are" with distinction. It's impossible to know exactly what he was referring to--perhaps what the questioner was effectively pointing at when he asked. But the retroblox guy hastens to add "there's a breadth of content here and something about the UI", perhaps distinguishing the backed up games from everything else which is the "breadth of content". So despite your poor ability to discern fine details, you might be right. I think everything in the top three categories has been backed up, and "continue playing" is just the same as "recently played".

 

However, we can't conclude anything from this. We know it does scan the disc to see what's in there (tekken 3 pops up after some time on 'Now Playing') so it may as well run from the disc (if it has that capability indeed) when you play the high-level conceptual "game" entry and it knows that disc is inserted. Honestly, I don't even see what's so amazing about running a PSX game from a disc drive through software which has already proven it's connected to said disc drive by virtue of responding when it's inserted, considering PSX emulators have been able to do that since always. Even the least charitable interpretation of what these guys are doing should include the possibility that they've gone through no more trouble than is required to connect a USB disc reader and use an emulator core capable of reading it.

[xiaNaix]

However, we can't conclude anything from this. We know it does scan the disc to see what's in there (tekken 3 pops up after some time on 'Now Playing') so it may as well run from the disc (if it has that capability indeed) when you play the high-level conceptual "game" entry and it knows that disc is inserted. Honestly, I don't even see what's so amazing about running a PSX game from a disc drive through software which has already proven it's connected to said disc drive by virtue of responding when it's inserted, considering PSX emulators have been able to do that since always. Even the least charitable interpretation of what these guys are doing should include the possibility that they've gone through no more trouble than is required to connect a USB disc reader and use an emulator core capable of reading it.

 

Hit the nail on the head there.

Edited February 15, 2017 by xiaNaix

[godslabrat]

The new episode of CUPodcast covers the Retroblox, although the relevant clip hasn't yet been posted to Youtube. Pat covers it very objectively, and tries to give the project the benefit of the doubt whenever possible, saying multiple times that it hasn't reached the kickstarter yet. I think this is a good approach for him, because as someone who makes his living doing game commentary, he has a responsibility to give the developers every opportunity to deliver before challenging them, and anytime between now and when the kickstarter launches is fair game for them. He did say that some of their goals "would be challenging" but also seemed to be on board with the concept. Which is all well and good, I'm just glad he covered the topic and will swing back when the kickstarter begins.

One quick blurb I feel compelled to point out is that he says the console shell on display at SoCal was just a mockup, and not the actual production prototype. Which, to me, says that there's no value in seeing someone supposedly feeding a Tekken disc into it and playing it off there, and that proves nothing.

[Tusecsy]

The new episode of CUPodcast covers the Retroblox, although the relevant clip hasn't yet been posted to Youtube. Pat covers it very objectively, and tries to give the project the benefit of the doubt whenever possible, saying multiple times that it hasn't reached the kickstarter yet. I think this is a good approach for him, because as someone who makes his living doing game commentary, he has a responsibility to give the developers every opportunity to deliver before challenging them, and anytime between now and when the kickstarter launches is fair game for them. He did say that some of their goals "would be challenging" but also seemed to be on board with the concept. Which is all well and good, I'm just glad he covered the topic and will swing back when the kickstarter begins.

One quick blurb I feel compelled to point out is that he says the console shell on display at SoCal was just a mockup, and not the actual production prototype. Which, to me, says that there's no value in seeing someone supposedly feeding a Tekken disc into it and playing it off there, and that proves nothing.

That last part has me cringing, this is CONeleon 2.0 folks, no doubt about it. They have no proof of concept, a fake shell, and the most lofty claims about emulation possible, completely debunked by the smartest man in the game Kevtris. While I appreciate his objectivity (have yet to listen will do so now), it's pretty damn obvious where this thing is headed. If they actually kickstart this thing without a shred of proof of "hybrid emulation", it's borderilne criminal.

 

Or you could believe the guy who at one point worked on a sequel to a PS2 game.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Tusecsy

[xiaNaix]

One quick blurb I feel compelled to point out is that he says the console shell on display at SoCal was just a mockup, and not the actual production prototype. Which, to me, says that there's no value in seeing someone supposedly feeding a Tekken disc into it and playing it off there, and that proves nothing.

 

They stated numerous times before the show that the prototype would be there and be playable. The amount of double talk and backtracking being done shows that these guys are nothing but liards, charlatans and frauds.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Anybody notice the Retroblox dude is eerily silent right now? Cover blown? Magician's sleight-of-hand demystified?

[Tusecsy]

Anybody notice the Retroblox dude is eerily silent right now? Cover blown? Magician's sleight-of-hand demystified?

 

He's probably frantically calling Mike Kennedy to see what his next move should be.

[HardZero]

 

He's probably frantically calling Mike Kennedy to see what his next move should be.

 

"Quick! Install a SNES Mini into the shell! They won't suspect the same trick twice!"

[Flojomojo]

Delay the Kickstarter to make it even better

[cybercylon]

They didn't need the SNES mini or the capture card. They had a CD reader built in. Simple as that.

 

Sheesh... we aren't going to get another 300+ page thread going, are we......

[shawnphase]

we are. except this dude's a lil more tightlipped than the yogi bear of videogames, so it might take a bit longer, ahahha

[Keatah]

I think both Lythium and Retroblox have learned not to go flapping their traps around like MK. OR are just plain sensible from the get go. Less trouble..

 

Either way it'll all shake out in the end, we'll either praise or condemn the systems when they're released.

[Keatah]

On their site/forum they say their console can handle the N64 just fine. But won't because of legal and patent reasons. What to make of that?

[xiaNaix]

On their site/forum they say their console can handle the N64 just fine. But won't because of legal and patent reasons. What to make of that?

 

<sarcasm> I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the two systems not 100% in current emulators like RetroArch (N64 and Saturn) are the same two Retroblox can't handle. </sarcasm>

[Andromeda Stardust]

They didn't need the SNES mini or the capture card. They had a CD reader built in. Simple as that.

 

Sheesh... we aren't going to get another 300+ page thread going, are we......

That would be epic. But I'm not ready to trash the creators just yet. Gotta give them plenty of rope, but it's up to them what they ultimately do with it.

 

Also lots of "me too" projects going on simultaneously in a crowded market. Two dumper/emu clonesalready exist, two FPGA NES consoles as well, one of which was hacked wide open by a co-creator who plans on delivering an all-in-one device which will put any newcomers to shame.

 

Now two brand new "RetroVGS" 2.0 clowns on the horizon with modular cart bays so they can nickle and dime us with add-ons. I guess there's still room for more on the bandwagon before it breaks a wagon wheel...

[cybercylon]

Yea.. probably should completely not be grumpy yet... the mention of just having a mock up at that show just gave bad reminders. So what was running things. Just about anything could have run those games. They could have said the plastic parts where just mock ups and here is real board running the software, even if that real board isn't in the final design phase to fit the console.