Bmack36 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 First time i saw a "SGM" was around 1993-94 it was on a compuserve board . A canadian guy with a French name (but i don't remember the name ) made what he called at this time the "Msx Module Project". the board had extra RAM and AY sound chip. His goal was to build an full MSX module . But first version of his board did not have additional cartridge port and was extremely similar to the SGM . I guess he never reached the final goal. Does this mean you also copied the SGM? just checking .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Also to clarify.. I doubt our project will make a ton of money. We are pricing the system at a low enough point where it will be available to a large group of people, but we don't know if we will sell 100 or 2000. With the costs of tooling a new case there is not a lot of money to be made unless you are making SuperNT kind of volume (which i can almost guarantee we will have anywhere near that amount of sales). The real goal of this project has always been to make the coleco accessible to those who want to play colecovision games on modern screens at a reasonable price without having to worry about 30 year old hardware failing. The more systems we can get out there the more potential customers for all of the homebrew publishers, which is good for everyone. Once again this project is about passion and the community not money. CollectorVision is a formal business. You were offered the license. Instead of even trying to negotiate, you prefer to copy my device, a clear demonstration of your “passion and the community not money” commitment, giving me a big fuck you. And I am the one running the party because I don’t quietly agree with your terms. Good luck Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmack36 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 I am still having trouble trying to understand what exactly we would we be licensing as there is nothing to license as NIAD pointed out other then maybe the name or the physical hardware or your code on your hardware. And we are not using any of that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted May 28, 2018 Author Share Posted May 28, 2018 CollectorVision is a formal business. You were offered the license. Instead of even trying to negotiate, you prefer to copy my device, a clear demonstration of your “passion and the community not money” commitment, giving me a big fuck you. And I am the one running the party because I don’t quietly agree with your terms. Good luck Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Seems like you know more than me on how CollectorVision is working.... $20 per unit sold is not what I call a friendly liscence I'm calling this: You want it, pay or go fuck yourself Anyway..... keep saying shit about us to try to make us look bad.....just like you always did when things doesn't work your way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Seems like you know more than me on how CollectorVision is working.... $20 per unit sold is not what I call a friendly liscence I'm calling this: You want it, pay or go fuck yourself Anyway..... keep saying shit about us to try to make us look bad.....just like you always did when things doesn't work your way I am not obligated to anything J-F, if that is what you call "friendly". I made you my offer, you said forget it, end of conversation. How about you let your customers decide if they want the SGM in their system or not. If they want, they pay the $20, get the module, everybody is happy. If they don't want, they don't pay, everybody is still happy. I just don't like your attitude that I ruined something that wasn't yours to start with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted May 28, 2018 Author Share Posted May 28, 2018 I am not obligated to anything J-F, if that is what you call "friendly". I made you my offer, you said forget it, end of conversation. How about you let your customers decide if they want the SGM in their system or not. If they want, they pay the $20, get the module, everybody is happy. If they don't want, they don't pay, everybody is still happy. I just don't like your attitude that I ruined something that wasn't yours to start with. What I don't like is the way you speak about CollectorVision without really knowing how we're working here I'm not even angry, but rather disapointed on how you handle this 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 What I don't like is the way you speak about CollectorVision without really knowing how we're working here I'm not even angry, but rather disapointed on how you handle this Be professional, cut the threats and melodrama. License it or don’t use. I am open to offers. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmack36 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 I am still having trouble trying to understand what exactly we would we be licensing as there is nothing to license as NIAD pointed out other then maybe the name or the physical hardware or your code on your hardware. And we are not using any of that. Repeated for clarification. You say we need a license, what would we be licensing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDTV1080P Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) There are ColecoVision software emulators like CoolCV for Windows, MAC OS X, Linux, and Raspberry Pi that already emulate the sound chip used in the OPCODE SGM. Did CoolCV developers pay licensing fees to OPCODE games to emulate SGM compatibility? I doubt it since CoolCV is being offered as a free donwload. From a consumer point of view its good to know that the CollectorVision game system well support the same sound chip used in the SGM with a software emulation. Another advantage of the CollectorVision game system is that it has a SDXC wafer drive slot that well handle future SDXC cards up to 2TB in size. A game developer can release ColecoVision games on low cost SD wafer cards for a fraction of the price of a real game cartridge. In addition when the game is released on a SD wafer card it can be played on a Windows PC, MAC, or portable device that runs a ColecoVision emulator (Several billions of people worldwide well have the potential to play ColecoVision games from SD wafer cards). Edited May 28, 2018 by HDTV1080P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Repeated for clarification. You say we need a license, what would we be licensing? Paying a fee as we discussed previously. Again, you are selling this. I invented the damn module, and now you want to copy it for profit. Not ok, especially considering that I still sell them. We discussed this a million times every time you asked me to use it Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 There are ColecoVision software emulators like CoolCV for Windows, MAC OS X, Linux, and Raspberry Pi that already emulate the sound chip used in the OPCODE SGM. Did CoolCV developers pay licensing fees to OPCODE games to emulate SGM compatibility? I doubt it since CoolCV is being offered as a free donwload. From a consumer point of view its good to know that the CollectorVision game system well support the same sound chip used in the SGM with a software emulation. Another advantage of the CollectorVision game system is that it has a SDXC wafer drive slot that well handle future SDXC cards up to 2TB in size. A game developer can release ColecoVision games on low cost SD wafer cards for a fraction of the price of a real game cartridge. In addition when the game is released on a SD card it can be played on a Windows PC, MAC, or portable device that runs a ColecoVision emulator (Several billions of people worldwide well have the potential to play ColecoVision games from SD wafer cards). Exactly, CoolCV is free! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted May 28, 2018 Author Share Posted May 28, 2018 Be professional, cut the threats and melodrama. License it or don’t use. I am open to offers. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Because of course, I'm the one being not professional here Threats? .... cause I said I won't be making more SGM games if we don't have the built-in SGM compatibility with our system? Why would I make games that are not supported by our system!? Melodrama!? LOL You're the one always involved in drama here, always! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmack36 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) Paying a fee as we discussed previously. Again, you are selling this. I invented the damn module, and now you want to copy it for profit. Not ok, especially considering that I still sell them. We discussed this a million times every time you asked me to use it Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk We never agreed to paying a license fee, we agreed we would be able to have SGM compatibility built in return for waiting until you shipped your last run of SGMs (which was considerable amount of time). Once again you didn't answer my question in what we would actually be licensing. An hypethetical example of an appropriate license situation would be if we wanted to make our own version of the SGM that plugged into an actual colecovision. We would then need to pay licensing to have access to the schematics, board files and programming information so that we could recreate the module for sale (not that we have any intention of doing this). In our situation we are using no intellectual property or claiming any trademarks. Edited May 28, 2018 by Bmack36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDTV1080P Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) Exactly, CoolCV is free! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk So since CoolCV is being offered for free, you are OK with no licensing being required for that product. Its only if someone charges a fee for a product that you would want licensing of your SGM to occur? If I understand that correctly, then if the CoolCV programmers were to come out with a free SGM software emualtion for the CollectorVision system then that might be ok. Edited May 28, 2018 by HDTV1080P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted May 28, 2018 Author Share Posted May 28, 2018 Repeated for clarification. You say we need a license, what would we be licensing? Basically, for using the SuperGame name/logo since everything else was not invented by him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted May 28, 2018 Author Share Posted May 28, 2018 With this attitude, I'm wondering who will make games for your Prometheus console? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmack36 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Basically, for using the SuperGame name/logo since everything else was not invented by him But in this scenario we are not claiming the trademark. If SuperGame Module is mentioned for compatability reasons it will be attributed to Opcode Games. And we don't have to use the SuperGame Logo if there is one. The difference is shown with how the SuperGame Module was licensed from Coleco Industries. They paid a license for the ability to use the Colecovision/coleco logo. When they stopped using the logo they no longer needed the license. We have no intention of claiming the trademark or using the logo for Supergame module. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 But in this scenario we are not claiming the trademark. If SuperGame Module is mentioned for compatability reasons it will be attributed to Opcode Games. And we don't have to use the SuperGame Logo if there is one. The difference is shown with how the SuperGame Module was licensed from Coleco Industries. They paid a license for the ability to use the Colecovision/coleco logo. When they stopped using the logo they no longer needed the license. We have no intention of claiming the trademark or using the logo for Supergame module. All of this to use my invention for profit without paying me anything, something that I still actively sell. Again, bad PR. Remember what happened to the last guy who tried to copy the SGM? This community is now a place where anything you create and share will become immediately public domain, like it or not. Nice incentive But I guess I have better things to do. Good luck Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmack36 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Once again, we are not copying your product The last guy actually copied your product. He was actually praised by many on this site until it turned out he was rude and made a subpar product that he wouldn't stand behind. Which was the real reason why he was eventually kicked off. We are creating a system that will give you a larger userbase to sell your games to which in itself is a benefit to you. You are still making a product geared to a slightly different userbase. There are still a lot of people who want an authentic colecovision that they can plug a SGM into and there will still be a market for that for you to sell into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted May 28, 2018 Author Share Posted May 28, 2018 All of this to use my invention for profit without paying me anything, something that I still actively sell. Again, bad PR. Remember what happened to the last guy who tried to copy the SGM? This community is now a place where anything you create and share will become immediately public domain, like it or not. Nice incentive But I guess I have better things to do. Good luck Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk So now you're saying I'm going to be banned from here? And you're the one saying I'm using threats? Wow! I never said I didn't want to pay you a liscence fee (even we don't have to!) But at $20 per system sold, it's just a big joke! ....a big fuckin joke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDTV1080P Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) All of this to use my invention for profit without paying me anything, something that I still actively sell. Again, bad PR. Remember what happened to the last guy who tried to copy the SGM? This community is now a place where anything you create and share will become immediately public domain, like it or not. Nice incentive But I guess I have better things to do. Good luck Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Just come out with a official OPCODE SGM firmware update on your website for $50. Many people well pay for a software version of the SGM. No one is planning on copying your hardware design. People have thought about making software emulation of the sound chip used in the SGM just like the CoolCV software currently does for dektop and portable devices. The real money is made in selling the videogames as long as people do not pirate your videogames. Edited May 28, 2018 by HDTV1080P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Once again, we are not copying your product The last guy actually copied your product. He was actually praised by many on this site until it turned out he was rude and made a subpar product that he wouldn't stand behind. Which was the real reason why he was eventually kicked off. We are creating a system that will give you a larger userbase to sell your games to which in itself is a benefit to you. You are still making a product geared to a slightly different userbase. There are still a lot of people who want an authentic colecovision that they can plug a SGM into and there will still be a market for that for you to sell into. A FPGA system is hardly an authentic CV, but that is just me. Anyways, you belief that someone is good for me doesn’t give you the right to copy my device, it doesn’t matter how you spin it. Act professionally and come to the table. Just don’t wait it to be free. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmack36 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 You are still talking about licensing and we still have not heard what we are actually supposed to be licensing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 So now you're saying I'm going to be banned from here? And you're the one saying I'm using threats? Wow! I never said I didn't want to pay you a liscence fee (even we don't have to!) But at $20 per system sold, it's just a big joke! ....a big fuckin joke! Ferraris are also a big f joke, still I don’t have one... because I can’t pay for it... unfortunately you just can’t have anything we want in life Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmack36 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 A FPGA system is hardly an authentic CV, but that is just me. Anyways, you belief that someone is good for me doesn’t give you the right to copy my device, it doesn’t matter how you spin it. Act professionally and come to the table. Just don’t wait it to be free. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk If you re-read my quote I was saying that there are still people using a real colecovision that need a SGM and they would be where you would still sell your SGM. Not that The FPGA was "authentic". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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