the atari Jaguar theory

[+Sauron]

what is a good tool for jag development... that doesn't use c scripting

 

Um, pretty much every development tool created for Jag development.

[+madman]

what is a good tool for jag development... that doesn't use c scripting

C is a compiled language, not interpreted like a script. There is also this in basic: http://atariage.com/forums/forum/161-raptor-basic/

[SoulBlazer]

I've always thought the Jag was a great system to do 2D games (on paper, at least). In that respect it could have done very well against the SNES and Genesis. Problem was when Atari tried to get into 3D gaming to compete with the upcoming PlayStation and Saturn, along with a CD unit that was too little, too late.

 

Just my thoughts on the failure of the system looking at it from the outside:

 

1) Hardware issues such as three processors making it difficult to program for, bugs in the hardware, etc.

2) Controller only having three buttons and a keypad that was given up after the early 80s's
3) The 3D and CD decision as mentioned above

4) Marketing, for numerous reasons

5) The Atari name itself had a bad taste in people's and retailer's mouths by this point, again for numerous reasons

6) The company was overstretched trying to support this, the Lynx, and the computer line.

7) Timing didn't help either. No one talks about this, but there was a 'mini crash' of gaming consoles in the mid 90's like what happened in 83-84. Too many systems on the market and only the big boys made it through.

Due to the 68000 processor a lot of games were just slightly enhanced ports, like what the 7800 suffered from. The original and really good games -- and there were some -- weren't enough to get kids to want to get a Jag when they already had (and probably were very happy with) playing those games on their SNES or Genesis or PC.

[2600problems]

what really amazes me is the slow speed of most of the games. blood bowl (I think its blood bowl) runs as if on dial up. there's stuttering everywhere.

[+madman]

What is blood bowl? Never heard of it.

[Keatah]

The way I see it is the Jag had too many custom functions spread among too many custom chips/blocks. Too many conditions had to be met to get maximum usage. Too much internal communication going on. I felt it was overly complex for its own good. This is something the Amiga barely escaped from by the way.

 

---

 

It was also at the beginning of the PC's golden age of gaming, what with the 486 and Pentium era upon us. And while I eyed the Jag, once the PC grabbed my interest I all but forgot about it.

Id games, Apogee Games, GT Interactive (distributor of shareware).. And more. Many people were seeing the PC as viable gaming platform for the first time. So game consoles of the era took a hit.

PC gaming was also hitting its stride when it came to making add-ons and level packs and dealing with saved games. Storage capacity and the file system was very compelling for the sophisticated gamer.

Then there was 3D. At the time you needed to have X amount of power to transition into 3D gaming. Anything less, you got a mess. And I believe the Jag made it half-way across before sinking.

At first I wasn't into the PC as a game machine, so I'm un-biased in that respect. When Doom and Raptor came out I had already had my rig configured for word processing and scientific usage. It just happened to be powerful enough for good 3D gaming, if all in software at first.

---

Not saying the PC killed the Jag, no, they were two different markets. Jag was trying to do too much with too little. And while I never played around inside the environment, from the block diagram it looks to be rather complex. I can't imagine a developer not getting headaches in there.

Edited June 19, 2017 by Keatah

[Felyx]

Already 3 pages in this topic but still no mention of illuminatis, chemtrails , 40 feet tall giants or nazi basis on the moon to explain the lack of success og the Jaguar

 

Coincidence? hmmm I don't think so...

[Welshworrier]

I heard that the fumeshooms in plants vs zombies were based on the Jaguar, but I might have been asleep when that happened.

[keepdreamin]

zerosquare, you do NOT have to participate. you chose too, you do not have to do so if you do not want. so respectfully, shut the fuck up

 

[leech]

I've always thought the Jag was a great system to do 2D games (on paper, at least). In that respect it could have done very well against the SNES and Genesis. Problem was when Atari tried to get into 3D gaming to compete with the upcoming PlayStation and Saturn, along with a CD unit that was too little, too late.

 

Just my thoughts on the failure of the system looking at it from the outside:

 

1) Hardware issues such as three processors making it difficult to program for, bugs in the hardware, etc.

2) Controller only having three buttons and a keypad that was given up after the early 80s's

3) The 3D and CD decision as mentioned above

4) Marketing, for numerous reasons

5) The Atari name itself had a bad taste in people's and retailer's mouths by this point, again for numerous reasons

6) The company was overstretched trying to support this, the Lynx, and the computer line.

7) Timing didn't help either. No one talks about this, but there was a 'mini crash' of gaming consoles in the mid 90's like what happened in 83-84. Too many systems on the market and only the big boys made it through.

Due to the 68000 processor a lot of games were just slightly enhanced ports, like what the 7800 suffered from. The original and really good games -- and there were some -- weren't enough to get kids to want to get a Jag when they already had (and probably were very happy with) playing those games on their SNES or Genesis or PC.

1) From what I had read, this was added to with terrible development documentation.

2) The reasoning for this is simple, they already had developed a 3 button controller+keypad for the STe. The Atari PowerPad was created before the Jaguar, from what I've seen. https://atariage.com/forums/topic/252546-wtb-atari-stjaguar-bluegray-power-pad-controller/

3) Seems some of the 3D games looked much better early on than the ones on the PSX. Compare something like AvP with some of the launch titles for PSX. CD would have been a better decision if it'd been released with the system.

4) Wow, marketing for the Jag was terrible... from the style to the lack of seeing it outside of infomercial times.

5) Don't forget that they'd pissed off developers as well.

6) I think by the time the Jag launched, they had dropped support for Lynx and the computers, which literally meant they'd had the Falcon supported for less than a year.

7) completely agree.

 

Last note about the 68000, I just recently read that a lot of the Jaguar releases were initially created for the Panther then 'forward' ported to the Jag, which also explains the lack of utilizing the hardware.

 

This really left the Jaguar and Falcon to be horribly underutilized.

[+madman]

The real question is, what exactly was in the plastic that causes the fumes that cause the Jag conspiracy theories? Or maybe it's something in the molds themselves, look what happened after one person acquired the original molds. These are the real unanswered questions.

[JagChris]

Screw all you people who naysay the keypad. That things awesome.

[Austin]

Screw all you people who naysay the keypad. That things awesome.

 

Agreed. Used properly it was definitely a worthwhile feature of the Jag controller.

 

what really amazes me is the slow speed of most of the games. blood bowl (I think its blood bowl) runs as if on dial up. there's stuttering everywhere.

 

You are thinking of Brutal Sports Football. It certainly has performance issues, mainly in a choppy framerate. Surprisingly though, the game is still a lot of fun.

 

The Jaguar definitely has some stinkers when it comes to performance issues, but every platform does. Doing the math in my head however, I don't think "most" of the library is "slow". There are obviously standouts that are (Checkered Flag, Supercross 3D, Hoverstrike cart, etc), but there are also dozens of games that are not.

[LianneJaguar64]

What is blood bowl? Never heard of it.

Blood Bowl is a fantasy American Football game, where humans, orcs, dark elves etc. play a hard-and-fast version (no downs etc) and smash the everyloving sh*t out of each other, with some highly entertaining tongue in cheek humour. It's a miniatures boars game first and foremost, but they have made video games of it, but I don't think that was on Jaguar...

Edited June 20, 2017 by LianneJaguar64

[LianneJaguar64]

I've always thought the Jag was a great system to do 2D games (on paper, at least). In that respect it could have done very well against the SNES and Genesis. Problem was when Atari tried to get into 3D gaming to compete with the upcoming PlayStation and Saturn, along with a CD unit that was too little, too late.

 

Just my thoughts on the failure of the system looking at it from the outside:

 

1) Hardware issues such as three processors making it difficult to program for, bugs in the hardware, etc.

2) Controller only having three buttons and a keypad that was given up after the early 80s's

3) The 3D and CD decision as mentioned above

4) Marketing, for numerous reasons

5) The Atari name itself had a bad taste in people's and retailer's mouths by this point, again for numerous reasons

6) The company was overstretched trying to support this, the Lynx, and the computer line.

7) Timing didn't help either. No one talks about this, but there was a 'mini crash' of gaming consoles in the mid 90's like what happened in 83-84. Too many systems on the market and only the big boys made it through.

Due to the 68000 processor a lot of games were just slightly enhanced ports, like what the 7800 suffered from. The original and really good games -- and there were some -- weren't enough to get kids to want to get a Jag when they already had (and probably were very happy with) playing those games on their SNES or Genesis or PC.

Another problem was a lack of supply to the PAL regions (especially the UK, where demand was significantly higher than supply, by four, five times), shooting themselves in the foot for the chance to establish a foothold in a respectable market that REALLY wanted the Jaguar

[Ayreon]

I agree. I don't think it would have saved them, but Europe was more open to Atari at that time. That and the whole made in the USA thing( which probably added unnecessary costs) were not helpful.

[mckafka99]

Screw all you people who naysay the keypad. That things awesome.

 

I also happen to like the Jag Controller with keypad. It actually makes for a nice controller for an RPi setup as well (with the Jag-to-USB adpator). Nice to have all those keys at your disposal.

[VladR]

Play Tomb Raider and Mario 64 back to back. N64 games, especially early on, certainly had their problems texture- and storage-wise, but a lot of PlayStation games are unplayable pixelated messes.

Thank you for the one-sentence summary of both extremes:

1. Over filtering on N64: ugly lowres textures - WTF ?

2. No filtering on PS1 : ugly pixelated mess - WTF ?

 

None of those extremes are good during gameplay. Ideally, the developer strikes a compromise between the both.

 

It's, however, a shitload of art work, re-work, re-touch, and re-design of the textures and all their lower-resolution mipmaps (especially considering if it's palette-based) till they look good from all distances (e.g mipmaps). Arguably, in the time, it takes, for one environment (say, jungle) to be in a state of a 50/50 compromise between the two extremes, an artist could produce easily two additional environments (e.g., snow, desert).

 

No way, an effort like that, could have ever happened during commercial lifetime of jag. But now, with homebrew, it is possible (however improbable).