MIDI Interface

[+mytek]

I can't wait to try it, Michael. I've been seriously thinking about making enough of these to attempt the first ever Midi-Maze game with 16 Atari 8-bits at VCF Southeast 7.0 in April. There have been 16 STs used in MM games several times from what I understand, as well as STs and 8-bits together, but never all 16 being 8-bits as far as I can tell. If it all works out and is a success at VCFSE, I'm going to ship them to Bill Lange to use at VCF East the following weekend.

 

DHL failed to deliver the boards today, but I have faith that they'll arrive tomorrow.

 

I must have been reading your mind, because I ordered 25 boards which should easily fulfill your needs. You are welcome to 16 of them, but you'll have to supply the other parts yourself. That'll be very cool if you can make that happen in time for the show. I'll see about getting you a parts list hopefully by tomorrow as well, although it's pretty simple. You just need to find an inexpensive source of MIDI cables, because you'll need a lot of them .

 

BTW, can you upload the latest A8 version of MIDI-MAZE to this thread? I'd like to use that to test the board.

 

Here's the post where the PIC12F1572 MIDI Controller Firmware can be gotten: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/269207-midi-interface/page-10?do=findComment&comment=4195768

[Brentarian]

 

DHL failed to deliver the boards today, but I have faith that they'll arrive tomorrow.

 

I must have been reading your mind, because I ordered 25 boards which should easily fulfill your needs. You are welcome to 16 of them, but you'll have to supply the other parts yourself. That'll be very cool if you can make that happen in time for the show. I'll see about getting you a parts list hopefully by tomorrow as well, although it's pretty simple. You just need to find an inexpensive source of MIDI cables, because you'll need a lot of them .

 

BTW, can you upload the latest A8 version of MIDI-MAZE to this thread? I'd like to use that to test the board.

 

Here's the post where the PIC12F1572 MIDI Controller Firmware can be gotten: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/269207-midi-interface/page-10?do=findComment&comment=4195768

 

Awesome -- thank you! I have attached the Midi-Mate 128k cartridge rom and the binary executable that Fandal made. The .xex file requires at least 320k of memory. I have five computers that meet or exceed that, and four multi-carts that can run the .rom/.car files on 4 stock 64k computers -- so that is nine. I'm not sure yet what equipment the other participants are bringing, but I was thinking about burning some 128k eproms to make some cartridges for Midi-Maze to run on stock 64k computers to ensure we can get to that 16 mark. I found the design files for 8k/16k cart boards that PixelsPast created, but nothing public for any 128k XE type cart boards.

MidiMaze.zip

[+mytek]

Thanks for the files Brent.

 

So I remember a long time ago setting up 4 computers with a DIY parallel connected SIO cable that would play something similar. I think it was called the Maze of Agdagon. I got it from Chuck Steinman of DataQue. How much different or the same is this to MIDI-MAZE?

 

BTW, I updated the schematic for the SIO2MIDI board, so that it now includes a BOM. Go back to this post to get it.

[+mytek]

For people that have possibly purchased this board from OSH Park...

 

 

There was an error in the BOM which was included as part of the schematic. The switch (SW1) sourced from Jameco was a momentary type. It needs to be a non-momentary. Unfortunately Jameco does not currently have anything that will work, so I've respecified it as one coming from Digi-Key instead. Please reference the updated schematic in this post for the correct part to use.

 

Sorry about that .

[+mytek]

Found a good source for MIDI cables in a variety of sizes: Monoprice

 

 

[+DrVenkman]

Monoprice MIDI cables are great - I have a few myself. And of course, Monoprice itself is a great source for a hell of a lot of cables, widgets and assorted stuff.

[Mathy]

Hello Michael

 

I think it was called the Maze of Agdagon. I got it from Chuck Steinman of DataQue. How much different or the same is this to MIDI-MAZE?

 

Maze of Agdagon used the GameLinkII, also known as the MultiLink interface.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

Edited March 1, 2019 by Mathy

[Mathy]

Hello Michael

 

BTW, can you upload the latest A8 version of MIDI-MAZE to this thread?

 

What's new/different about the latest A8 version?

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

[+mytek]

Hi Mathy

 

I was simply requesting a download for the last known version of MIDI-MAZE, in case there were multiple versions. And yes I realized that the Maze of Agdagon required an entirely different interface, but what I was really interested in, was how similar or non-similar game play, graphics, ect. it was to MIDI-MAZE. It's been so long since I played it, that I forgot exactly what it looked like on the A8.

[Mathy]

Hello Michael

 

I had hoped that you could find some clue about it's workings and the differences to the MIDI-Mate interface in the files on my Special Stuf page (see link above).

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

[+mytek]

I had hoped that you could find some clue about it's workings and the differences to the MIDI-Mate interface in the files on my Special Stuf page (see link above).

 

Found this video on the Maze of Agdagon. It shows both good and bad points of the game. On the plus side I like the fact that only one computer is required to have a disk drive to load the game, with all of the slaves loading over the game link cable which was actually very fast. But on the minus side I really don't like the limited horizontal view screen, and obviously there are reliability issues as seen in the video.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEWSGe7ssHc

 

The MIDI-MAZE game has a lot more options associated with how the game will play, and how you will connect. I was also very amazed at the speed and fluid movement, as well as what I consider a better view screen into the game. Also it's my understanding that networking all 8-bit machines yields very good results, whereas doing a mixed setup with STs and 8-Bits is prone to trouble.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=275&v=WF6IYOEOlbo

[ivop]

No problem, just thought if it could help, its available...

 

There might be one thing you could help us with though, and that's a scan of the Hybrid Arts MIDI Track software manual, if you happen to have it, too

Edited March 2, 2019 by ivop

[+Allan]

 

There might be one thing you could help us with though, and that's a scan of the Hybrid Arts MIDI Track software manual, if you happen to have it, too

This one?

 

http://www.atarimania.com/utility-atari-400-800-xl-xe-miditrack-iii_30988.html

 

Allan

[Kyle22]

This one?

 

http://www.atarimania.com/utility-atari-400-800-xl-xe-miditrack-iii_30988.html

 

Allan

 

Thanks so much. I have been looking for this for a while.

 

(Just dreaming, but if the hackers could tear the software apart and make it run under SDX on a hard drive... )

[+mytek]

 

Thanks so much. I have been looking for this for a while.

 

(Just dreaming, but if the hackers could tear the software apart and make it run under SDX on a hard drive... )

 

Or better yet, also add improvements to it based on similar applications that came later, and not necessarily ones that were only on Atari machines.

[ivop]

This one?

 

http://www.atarimania.com/utility-atari-400-800-xl-xe-miditrack-iii_30988.html

 

Allan

 

Thanks!! Several people on AA, including me, have been looking for this.

[+mytek]

How do you decide who is the Master Machine in a MIDI-MAZE network?

 

I have two 8-bit systems connected MIDI-OUT to MIDI-IN creating a ring. I then load up MIDIMAZE.XEX on both machines, and allow it to load data and then I press a key to get the interface menu. I select MIDIMATE on the menu and press the trigger button on the joystick. It now says "This is a slave machine" and doesn't respond to either the joystick or the keyboard. If I boot up the 2nd machine and also select MIDIMATE, I end up in the same pickle with it also saying it's a slave, with neither machine responding. What am I doing wrong?

[_The Doctor__]

You will get slave only if you do not have midi maze connected or you do not have midi maze driver running... if I remember correctly

anyone have the un-adulterated rom?

Edited March 3, 2019 by _The Doctor__

[_The Doctor__]

here is the st manual...Midi-Maze-1987-HybridArts.pdf

 

[+mytek]

Thanks Doc .

 

I'll have to double check my connections tomorrow.

 

So here's how the new SIO2MIDI board looks...

 

 

It's pretty compact. I was also thinking that it would probably be a good candidate for a 3D printed case of some sort.

 

 

[+mytek]

Attempting to get MIDI-MAZE to work on an all 8-bit network.

 

I double checked my connections and other then me having one less computer, I have it setup like the example in the manual.

 

 

Unless someone says otherwise, I'll assume that the last computer booted up as a MIDIMATE system from the menu, is automatically suppose to become the MASTER, same as the on the ST version.

 

My Setup

• 1st system: 1088XLD booted from Fandal's XEX from the built-in CF hardware using the U1MB XEL Loader.
• MIDI connections are being made via the the XLD Level 2 I/O board.
• 2nd system: 1088XEL booted from same XEX using the CF3 hardware and the U1MB XEL Loader.
• On the XEL I'm using the SIO2MIDI board's DIN connections.
• Both systems use the same PIC12F1572 based firmware as the MIDI Controller.
• Both MIDI cables are 20 feet long.

I've tested both systems independently for function using an external MIDI keyboard and ivop's MIDIMON program to verify the inputs. I also played a tune through the S2 Synth on the XLD system by switching the Synth Source to external, and then running the MIDIplay program on the XEL. So in essence I was sending MIDI data out of the XEL's connected SIO2MIDI hardware and into the MIDI input circuit on the XLD to play it's built-in synthesizer module which was connected to the output of the XLD's opto-isolated MIDI-IN circuit. I also verified that the XLD can play a tune on it's built-in S2 Synth by switching the source to internal. Pretty complete test of all the related MIDI hardware.

 

MIDI-MAZE Results

 

As I stated before, both computers are reported as slaves after selecting MIDIMATE from the menu, and appear to be waiting for a MASTER to tell them what to do. I've tried pressing all the alphanumeric keys, as well as the console keys, and played with the joystick to no avail.

 

Ivop I know you were trying to get this to work as posted in some of the earlier parts of this thread, and wasn't able to get anything to happen due to a program boot-up problem with the ST computer you had in the ring network. Did you ever try this with two 8-bit systems?

 

Mathy I believe I saw something about you guys doing this with all 8-bit systems for the Fujirama (hope i spelled that right). Can you give a description of what you guys did, and what was seen?

 

On the ST version there appears to be a way to force a system to be a MASTER by pressing ALT+R. Does anyone know if there is an equivalent to this with the 8-bit version of the software?

[Mathy]

Hello Michael

 

It's called Fujiama.

 

We usually have a lot of problems trying to hook them all up the correct way. And if only one thing goes wrong, we have NO master. But I have no clue why.

 

What doesn't work is mixing NTSC and PAL computers. But that probably isn't what's causing your problems.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

[ivop]

I've tested both systems independently for function using an external MIDI keyboard and ivop's MIDIMON program to verify the inputs. I also played a tune through the S2 Synth on the XLD system by switching the Synth Source to external,

 

Good to see the external-source switch is actually of use

 

 

Ivop I know you were trying to get this to work as posted in some of the earlier parts of this thread, and wasn't able to get anything to happen due to a program boot-up problem with the ST computer you had in the ring network. Did you ever try this with two 8-bit systems?

 

No, I didn't, because I did not have two computers with 320kB and no other means to run MIDI Maze on a 64kB machine at the time.

 

But I guess somebody must know how to turn an 8-bitter into Master mode, no?

 

CTRL-R, SHIFT-R, CTRL+SHIFT+R ???

 

And BTW why ALT-R? ALT-M would be more obvious.

[+mytek]

Hello Michael

 

It's called Fujiama.

 

We usually have a lot of problems trying to hook them all up the correct way. And if only one thing goes wrong, we have NO master. But I have no clue why.

 

What doesn't work is mixing NTSC and PAL computers. But that probably isn't what's causing your problems.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

Hello Mathy,

 

Thanks for the feedback, and as I suspected, sorry for the misspelling .

 

For my tests I'm running all NTSC systems over here. But that's a good thing you pointed out that could create a potential problem if someone tries to mix between the two standards. I've been searching for a couple of days now to see if there is either a good tutorial (video or print), or a manual specific to the 8-bit version of MIDI-MAZE when used in the MIDIMATE configuration, but so far nothing. Obviously there are distinct differences between the 8-bit and the ST (i.e., no ALT key). But I would have thought there would have been some carry over as far as commands, perhaps using the CTRL key instead.

 

EDIT: just saw your suggestion ivop. Later today I'll try a few other combinations of SHIFT and CTRL to see what happens.

[ivop]

Another suggestion is to see what the program doing in its busy loop before starting the game in an emulator and try to determine which key combinations are acted upon in one way or another. Probably have to hack around the check for the MIDI clock in the beginning, because as far as I know, none of the emulators implement that.

 

ATM I have no time to do that myself, because I'm going to watch the WC Allround Speedskating in Calgary on the telly and have a beer