5200 was a waste of solder and plastic

[Brad2600]

The 5200 rules, m'kay?

[Nukey Shay]

That's a lotta rules

[WaverBoy]

For the record, the Atari 5200 is my favorite console, PERIOD. I've been in the process of rejuvenating it for the past few weeks now...had to get a new controller port, rebuild joysticks, get replacement bearing for the trackball...by the end of this week all should be well again, and I can play it for the first time in probably 17 years. I should never have let it fall into disrepair and neglect...I feel a bit guilty about abandoning it when the NES and Sega Genesis came along (two great systems themselves, and tied for third favorites; Atari 2600 is second favorite). I installed the Jum5200 emulator, but it just isn't the same without those controllers and the trackball. And, for the record, 5200 PAC-MAN plays JUST FINE with those controllers. Vigo, I must disagree with you here; it is NOT the definition of "out-of-control". Once I got used to it, it was a snap. I eventually had no problem playing one game for hours, way past the first key table. Even my mother could do it, for chrissakes, and she's no gamer. I really think the controllers are, except for their lack of reliability, unfairly maligned; I tried to play Montezuma's Revenge on the emulator with a gamepad, and, forget it. It's gotta be those controllers or nothing. I can't wait until I can play it again...only a few days more...

[Vigo]

Ummm, i didn´t made any statements about the controllers, just the technical architecture of the system.

[ElectricTroy]

The End.

 

Click here:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/viewtopic.p...p=311732#311732

[WaverBoy]

Ummm, i didn´t made any statements about the controllers, just the technical architecture of the system.

 

Geez, sorry Vigo...I meant Big Mo, the one who wrote the comparison of the CV Vs. 5200. At the beginning of Big Mo's post, he quotes you, and it was your nick that stuck in my head for some reason...sorry.

[WaverBoy]

You guys made persuasive arguments, but I still hold the same opinion:

Atari should have skipped the 5200 and released the 7800 instead in 1983.  

 

If the 7800 had been released in 1983, it would have blown gamers away. Mouths would be dropping open. And Atari would be rich.

 

And if the Sega Genesis had been released in 1983, it would have blown gamers away. If the Playstation 2 had been released in 1983, it would have blown gamers away. If the Honda Accord had been released in 1922, it would have blown drivers away. Who cares? 1983 was 1983. And for 1983, the 5200 is an excellent system; if it wasn't, there wouldn't be an extremely active 5200 forum. Your statement is pointless.

[Gabriel]

I love my Atari 5200, controllers and all!

[Vigo]

Ummm, i didn´t made any statements about the controllers, just the technical architecture of the system.

 

Geez, sorry Vigo...I meant Big Mo, the one who wrote the comparison of the CV Vs. 5200. At the beginning of Big Mo's post, he quotes you, and it was your nick that stuck in my head for some reason...sorry.

 

No problem, man! Things have gotten very complicated and confusing in this thread....

[ElectricTroy]

Who cares?  1983 was 1983.  And for 1983, the 5200 is an excellent system; if it wasn't, there wouldn't be an extremely active 5200 forum.  Your statement is pointless.

 

The 7800 was in development in 1982. It was planned for release in 1983. Then Atari changed its mind. So my statement IS relevant. IMHO, the 7800 should have been released in 1983 as originally planned.

[WaverBoy]

According to George Reese of Stella's Boneyard, you are wrong. The Atari 7800 was developed in April, 1984, almost TWO YEARS after the release of the 5200 in the summer of 1982. Read on:

 

"In the summer of 1983 the 'Great Videogame Crash' was starting to manifest itself. The video game market, already saturated with too many game systems and tons of poor quality 2600 rip-offs, was dumping product as fast as possible. New-in-box games were being unloaded for pennies on the dollar, some still with rebates greater than the selling price (one game purchased at a department store for $2.00 still offered a $5.00 rebate - a $3.00 profit!). Software houses folded left and right, some merged or were bought up by larger companies. A few actually weathered the storm and are still a strong presence in the software market today, Activision being a prime example. That summer CEO Ray Kasser was ousted (amidst accusations of insider trading regarding the sale of personal stocks the previous year) and replaced in September by James Morgan. Warner Communications, after posting a year-end loss of $536 million, was ready to dump video games and Atari in general, and decided that the 5200 would cease production. The last units rolled off the assembly line in spring of 1984.

 

 

Atari's newest game system, the 7800 ProSystem, had been developed in April of that same year, and 5,000 units produced at Atari's San Antonio, Texas plant (the rare expansion port model) but shelved after Warner sold Atari to Commodore computers founder Jack Tramiel and sons."

 

Here's the link to the complete article:

 

http://www.atari7800.com/5200/history.htm

 

As you should know, many technological advance can be made in two years. And, it's funny, then, that even delayed until a few years later, it's still inferior to the 5200 in some ways, especially the sound and controllers!

 

There are reasons why the 5200 has a bigger following than the 7800 these days.

[Room 34]

I would say the system probably was not developed start-to-finish within the 30 days of April 1984. But yes, everything I've read has said that the 7800 was ready for production in 1984, not 1983. And the 5200 came out in 1982... when the 7800 was at best only in the early design stages.

 

There are reasons why the 5200 has a bigger following than the 7800 these days.

I would say it's ALWAYS had a bigger following... but that of course is the fault of "Jackass" Tramiel and not the timing of the 7800's original development cycle....

[WaverBoy]

I would say the system probably was not developed start-to-finish within the 30 days of April 1984.  But yes, everything I've read has said that the 7800 was ready for production in 1984, not 1983.  And the 5200 came out in 1982... when the 7800 was at best only in the early design stages.

 

There are reasons why the 5200 has a bigger following than the 7800 these days.

I would say it's ALWAYS had a bigger following... but that of course is the fault of "Jackass" Tramiel and not the timing of the 7800's original development cycle....

 

It may also be partially the fault of the sound, upon which everyone seems to agree is inferior to the 5200, and also the controllers, which many people seem to think are the worst, most uncomfortable ever. At least that takes some heat off of the 5200 controllers. The 7800 was in production for basically 4 years (not counting the 5000 units produced in 1984), '86 to around '90, finally completely petering out around '92. The 5200 was cancelled after only 2 years, and has a bigger following. I think that says something.

[Room 34]

Yeah... the 7800's sound is horrible (even though I find the eardrum-shredding music on the Donkey Kong games strangely endearing), and those "ProLine" joysticks really bite. I always play my 7800 with a CX40, so I generally avoid playing the games that require two buttons (even though that does mean a lot of lost time with my beloved Xevious).

[ubersaurus]

Yeah... the 7800's sound is horrible (even though I find the eardrum-shredding music on the Donkey Kong games strangely endearing), and those "ProLine" joysticks really bite.  I always play my 7800 with a CX40, so I generally avoid playing the games that require two buttons (even though that does mean a lot of lost time with my beloved Xevious).

 

I actually never had any problems with the 7800 sticks. Never cramped my hand up, and I was able to get those buttons easy. Only reason I bought the pads for the console was because my sticks were wearing out from so much use over the years.

I won't defend the 7800 sound, except for the fact that with a good programmer (like the guys who did Scrapyard Dog), they can make the best out of a bad situation.

[KAZ]

Here is the obvious comparison between 2600 and 5200 Space Invaders.

 

After looking at the pictures, how could the 5200 version be worse? It is simply NOT TRUE.

 

No system can compare to playing Centipede with a Trak ball for the 5200!

 

And Pac-Man obliterates the version for 2600.

 

The remake 2600 Pac-Man is pretty good.

[MegaManFan]

I normally wouldn't rip on 5200, but I have to say one thing - their version of Space Invaders is HELLA dissapointing. If better than the (original) 2600 version, it's only that by the narrowest of margins. I'd much rather play "Avengers" on Commodore 64 - it may not have the licensed name but it's MUCH more authentic, right down to the shot counts and the UFO.

[King Atari]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the 7800 come about as a result of Atari polling the gamers to figure out what they wanted in a console, and correct the mistakes made with the 5200? If so, that means without the 5200, there may not be a 7800 as we know it.

[Room 34]

Personally, I think 5200 Space Invaders is pretty cool... but it's NOTHING like the arcade game. (That is, it's about as much like the original arcade Space Invaders as Galaxian or any other S.I.-inspired game.)

[KAZ]

Since it is obvious that 5200 wasn't going for a perfect port of Space Invaders, maybe it can be overlooked.

 

I suppose they should've renamed the game or something.

 

Like Space Capture or something (like when that flying saucer comes down at that one stage). That is a pretty cool part that I doubt is in the arcade.

 

I don't think they were even trying for a perfect emulation...since some of those creatures are pretty goofy looking.

 

 

When I was younger I used to get a kick out of shooting all the enemies and leaving one specific creature, just to see how goofy it would look going across the screen quickly.

 

 

The "Birthday Cake" creature on the top of one of the stages is just hilarious!

[Christophero Sly]

I agree with MMF on 5200 Space Invaders...not bad, but disappointing. My favorite SI clone is TI Invaders on the TI-99/4A.

[DracIsBack]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the 7800 come about as a result of Atari polling the gamers to figure out what they wanted in a console, and correct the mistakes made with the 5200? If so, that means without the 5200, there may not be a 7800 as we know it.

 

That was my understanding.

 

People complained about the lack of 2600 compatibility with the 5200. The 7800 had it out of the box.

 

People complained about the analog joytsticks that broke. The 7800 had digital ones that were more durable (though they could have been better).

 

The third key element that went into the 7800's design was the pressure Atari consoles were feeling from the Colecovision and also home computers like the Commodore 64. The 7800 was built to have strong graphics and larger cartridges.

 

That being said, I could never understand why they chinced on the sound of the 7800. This weakness stuck out like a sore thumb. I've heard various "rationale" for having 2600 sound but not sure of the validity. I've heard it was an issue of space as the 7800 had 2600 hardware and 7800 hardware on board. I've heard it was an issue of cost, again, because the system had 7800 hardware and 2600 hardware on board. And, I've heard it was an issue of compatibility, but that could have been remedied by also including a POKEY.

 

It's a shame more 7800 carts didn't use the POKEY. COMMANDO sounded great.

[Gregory DG]

Wow... All this talk about 5200 SI...

 

I felt that Atari was IMPROVING on the original. Certainly the 5200 could have looked exactly like the arcade version if they wanted it to. But how does a monochome game make a "SuperSystem" look advanced?

 

It's like the Star Trek thing. The reason the uniforms on the original show were such bright colors is because the execs wanted to play up the show on color TVs. Atari wanted to make SI better than the original to play up the strengths of the 5200.

[NE146]

I felt that Atari was IMPROVING on the original. Certainly the 5200 could have looked exactly like the arcade version if they wanted it to. But how does a monochome game make a "SuperSystem" look advanced?

 

Check out what Rob said about it http://www.robfulop.com/rf2/invaders.htm Apparently the marketing dept. wanted him to use the original graphics, but he opted not to

 

As one of the resident AA Space Invaders fanatics count me in as one who thought 5200 Space Invaders wasn't an improvement on the original. I mean, it's fun in it's own right (I loved it for what it was). But the original Space Invaders was a lot more than the graphics... it was also all the little strategies and tricks which a lot of the Space Invaders ports at the time seemed to miss.

 

5200 Space Invaders falls into that category. i.e. It simply boils it all down to the basic play mechanic of the "sliding cannon shooting a formation of invaders" but neglects everything else that made the Space Invaders experience.

 

In my opinion they could have made the space invaders color but kept some of the gameplay elements intact. I mean what Space Invaders player didn't want to do the "wall of death" on their home system back then. With the home versions that just wasn't possible. It's sort of ironic that only in recent years have we had a true arcade Space Invader ports hit home. But oh well