Is the 3DO worth getting?

[profholt82]

Yeah, 3d shooter/racer is my catch all for that style of game. I realize the 3do was in that transitional period where most games weren't fully 3d yet, and used tricks and ingenuity to make them appear that way. There are also many Sega CD games that play similarly to Rebel Assault where you're behind the ship flying into the FMV. It certainly feels 3Dish, albeit in a rail shooter way. I yield to whatever the proper term is, and know that it isn't a true 3d game. I just tend to use that term loosely. 

[Flojomojo]

I wonder if we'll ever see a return to that kind of gameplay? I've seen some dabbling in "augmented reality," where computer-generated objects are overlaid in real-world settings, but they always come off as hokey and just as contrived as the old Total Eclipse style graphics. Having everything in a CG world is almost more convincing. I was gobsmacked to learn that most of the digital sets from The Mandalorian were displayed on the fly to giant screen-walls behind the actors. Very cool. 

[WhyNotZoidberg]

If you’re comparing versions with the Saturn I would say Star Fighter and Total Eclipse are both superior.

 

if you want something that cannot be played on Saturn, there’s this little exclusive I’m very fond of called Phoenix 3. It’s not great by today’s standards but it’s definitely worth some of your playtime. 

[Austin]

On 12/7/2021 at 9:58 PM, jeff20 said:

Bumping an old topic.  This is one of the few systems I've never owned.  I've even left it behind in thrift stores.  Is there anything on the 3do that doesn't have a superior equivalent for my Saturn?  So more precisely, if one also owns a Sega Saturn, what reasons would one have to get a 3do as well?

It really depends on your gaming tastes, what your personal limits are when it comes to slowdown and framerates affecting enjoyment of a game, and how deep you're willing to dive into its library to discover games that are new to you. Some of the 3DO's strongest titles are somewhat redundant (i.e., available in better forms elsewhere), but it has a wildly quirky library overall with a lot of weird titles that didn't see release on other systems. If the later sounds interesting to you, then yes, I think it's definitely worth picking up.

 

As far as titles that appeared on Saturn that most feel are "superior" on 3DO, you're basically looking at FMV titles, Space Hulk, Star Fighter.. and maybe Road Rash? A lot of people claim Need for Speed is superior, but that is strictly going to depend on your tastes. The PS1 and Saturn versions are arcade style racers, while the 3DO version is simulation oriented. It's effectively a spiritual successor to the original Test Drive series and plays very much like those.

 

If you want choppy messes that might be endearing in one way or another to a seriously special kind of person, check out Killing Time, Pataank, Way of the Warrior, Phoenix 3, Doctor Hauzer (Japanese), Cyberdillo, Virtuoso, Alone in the Dark (borderline.. it's pretty playable, but also gets extremely sluggish at points), etc.

 

For a few solid titles that (in my opinion) still hold up decently enough today that also weren't available on Saturn: Wolfenstein 3D, Captain Quazar, Icebreaker, Guardian War, Lemmings (works with the mouse), Novastorm, Trip'd, Burning Soldier, Shockwave 2, Out of This World, Flashback, Escape From Monster Manor, Lost Eden, Return Fire, Soccer Kid, and Bladeforce (gets super confusing, but it's a good tech demo). There are more in a variety of genres.

 

Wolfenstein 3D and Super Street Fighter II Turbo are my favorites on the 3DO by far. The later can be had on Saturn, but the 3DO soundtrack is so nice in comparison.

 

On 12/14/2021 at 11:48 AM, IntelliMission said:

@profholt82 Great post! I just wanted to point out that Rebel Assault is not 3D and uses video as a background. I believe Crash N Burn uses the same technique, as the framerate is quite low and the camera doesn't really change.

Nah, Crash 'n Burn's environments are texture mapped polygons rendered in real time. The cars and projectiles are 2D.

 

2 hours ago, WhyNotZoidberg said:

If you’re comparing versions with the Saturn I would say Star Fighter and Total Eclipse are both superior.

You might be thinking Solar Eclipse, which is a brand new game. The PS1 got Total Eclipse. I'd personally say it's preferred over the 3DO one. Smoother framerate, some good quality of life improvements (like a password save system), etc.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Austin

[derSammler]

14 hours ago, Austin said:

Nah, Crash 'n Burn's environments are texture mapped polygons rendered in real time. The cars and projectiles are 2D.

I remember reading that while these are texture-mapped polygons, they are streamed from the CD. So I'd assume the geometry is pre-rendered and not done in real-time. Only texture mapping is.

[Austin]

2 hours ago, derSammler said:

I remember reading that while these are texture-mapped polygons, they are streamed from the CD. So I'd assume the geometry is pre-rendered and not done in real-time. Only texture mapping is.

Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned "real time", but I'll also say it's just a matter of semantics. At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is the end result that the player sees and experiences (i.e., a 3D world with textures). How it gets to that point (like data constantly being loaded in from the CD, a common technique for CD games back in the day to get around memory constraints) is neither here nor there.

[derSammler]

1 hour ago, Austin said:

At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is the end result that the player sees and experiences (i.e., a 3D world with textures).

Well, yes and no. Since it's streamed, it has in fact more in common with Rebel Assault (or Mega Race for that matter) than it has with other games that are in true 3D (i.e. free movement). You are correct however in that the technique used is different. It's not playing a movie in the background.

[+Gemintronic]

For me I got it for CPU Bach and Slayer.  If you have games that are worth getting a system for.. well, there you go.

 

For the Atari Jaguar it's the flavor/style of games that is unique to the platform.  Can't say that about my 3DO (for me).  Everything seems to remind me of PC games in the nascent multimedia era.

[WhyNotZoidberg]

On 12/22/2021 at 4:43 PM, Austin said:

 

You might be thinking Solar Eclipse, which is a brand new game. The PS1 got Total Eclipse. I'd personally say it's preferred over the 3DO one. Smoother framerate, some good quality of life improvements (like a password save system), etc.

I am definitely talking about Solar Eclipse

and apparently I was doing so out of

my ass lol! Is it really an entirely different game??

Now I know the Saturn got BattleSport. I wonder how they compare.

 

On 12/23/2021 at 11:22 AM, Gemintronic said:

For me I got it for CPU Bach and Slayer.  If you have games that are worth getting a system for.. well, there you go.

 

For the Atari Jaguar it's the flavor/style of games that is unique to the platform.  Can't say that about my 3DO (for me).  Everything seems to remind me of PC games in the nascent multimedia era.

The 3DO library contains a bunch of Amiga and PC Ports, so you’re not wrong

there.

[Flojomojo]

On 12/23/2021 at 11:22 AM, Gemintronic said:

For me I got it for CPU Bach and Slayer.

I'm a little disappointed nobody has returned to the idea of CPU Bach. Maybe it's out there as a web or phone app. Or maybe more full featured toys like GarageBand and KORG Gadget do a lot more. 

[Wing_Commander]

Quote

Now I know the Saturn got BattleSport. I wonder how they compare.

I think the Sega version is missing some secret charactors / tanks, but I am not positive on that.. Basically the same other than I thought the 3DO version played a lot smoother.  

[Austin]

5 hours ago, WhyNotZoidberg said:

I am definitely talking about Solar Eclipse

and apparently I was doing so out of

my ass lol! Is it really an entirely different game??

Yep, Solar Eclipse is a brand new game. I'm not sure if it was intended as a sequel or just some sort of spinoff, but it's totally its own thing. More advanced visuals, faster gameplay, wider variety of stage gimmicks, focus on FMV characters constantly chatting and divulging the story as you play, etc. The game is a lot more varied and is overall a lot more polished.

[Wing_Commander]

5 hours ago, Austin said:

Yep, Solar Eclipse is a brand new game. I'm not sure if it was intended as a sequel or just some sort of spinoff, but it's totally its own thing. More advanced visuals, faster gameplay, wider variety of stage gimmicks, focus on FMV characters constantly chatting and divulging the story as you play, etc. The game is a lot more varied and is overall a lot more polished.

Man I just looked up that Sega game and it looks terrible compared to Total Eclipse. Sad, they could have improved on it. 

[Austin]

6 hours ago, Wing_Commander said:

Man I just looked up that Sega game and it looks terrible compared to Total Eclipse. Sad, they could have improved on it. 

?‍♂️

[Master Phruby]

On 12/23/2021 at 8:22 AM, Gemintronic said:

For me I got it for CPU Bach and Slayer.  If you have games that are worth getting a system for.. well, there you go.

 

For the Atari Jaguar it's the flavor/style of games that is unique to the platform.  Can't say that about my 3DO (for me).  Everything seems to remind me of PC games in the nascent multimedia era.

That was kind of the time period. Quicktime multimedia was the rage at the time. The 3DO was kind of the first console to embrace that kind of thing. A lot of the games on the 3DO were on PC too. A PC with a 3DOBlaster could run 3DO games natively. 

[Wing_Commander]

6 hours ago, Austin said:

?‍♂️

Sorry, I just disagree with the "More advanced visuals" ... I atleast don't really see it.  It was definately a game that took after Total Eclipse though..., so to say it is really it's own thing is a bit of a stretch.  I am just not really impressed with the Sega game. 

[WhyNotZoidberg]

19 hours ago, Austin said:

Yep, Solar Eclipse is a brand new game. I'm not sure if it was intended as a sequel or just some sort of spinoff, but it's totally its own thing. More advanced visuals, faster gameplay, wider variety of stage gimmicks, focus on FMV characters constantly chatting and divulging the story as you play, etc. The game is a lot more varied and is overall a lot more polished.

I checked it out and it looks good! The draw distance is upsetting but the things looks fluid! The constant chatter tho, god.

[Austin]

20 minutes ago, WhyNotZoidberg said:

I checked it out and it looks good! The draw distance is upsetting but the things looks fluid! The constant chatter tho, god.

Yeah, it's not for everyone but you can at least turn the voice audio off. I do recommend playing with it on for a first play, as they do sometimes give you ideas where to go inside some of the cavern areas (so less trial and error when it comes to figuring out insta-death dead ends). The gameplay is much faster and the controls are far snappier.

[Greg2600]

IS it worth it?  Well, the system on say eBay is now as over-priced as anything from the 90s, so if you're okay with spending a decent amount, I guess go for it.  The FZ-10's are usually cheaper.  Most systems now require cap kits, after all this time, that often has disabled the CD drive.  The console has a plethora of light gun games, but it's very tough to find one working that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.  They're not very fixable either. 

 

I would second the laments over the "uniqueness" of the system and its library.  Even choice titles like NFS while not desirable via PS1, had it's best version come out on DOS.  Similarly you're going to spend on the library, though nothing quite like many Jaguar game prices.  I myself got a half dozen of common ones but almost immediately wound up buying the expensive USB loader from Mnemo, as it made the most sense.  In fact, if not for that option, I never would have bothered with 3DO.  Makes it frustrating that I still have no light gun to play those games.  There's also a RGB mod though I felt that wasn't worth the price since S-Video out is pretty clear on this console.  For US buyers with the FZ-1, you can also do an easy mod to put in a switch to "force" 240p mode, making games look much clearer. 

 

There's not a ton of homebrew dev on the system, and an occasional prototype gets found here and there.  The peripherals IMO are substandard as is the primary controller.  All in all, I would say if you have the dough to spend, why not?  It's a system that arrived with a lot of fanfare.  I cannot really advise it over any contemporaries though, so you really need to have the cash to do it.  Otherwise, even the Jaguar, now with the affordable GameDrive, has a far more active scene.  However, if you're looking to move beyond the titlist N64/PSX, I'd say better off going all in on the Saturn.  The CD32 is impossibly expensive, can't go there.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Greg2600

[Greg2600]

So I have to caveat my recommendation because the outright fool mnemo has apparently shifted his pricing to Bitcoin, away from the stable EUR, and so with the complete nosedive in BTC lately, his prices are completely insane.  What usually cost around $190 for FZ-1 (plus shipping) USB ODE, would currently cost you well over $300!  As such, between that and the scarcity of peripherals, I cannot recommend a full 3DO experience unless you simply have money to toss away. 

[Austin]

A FZ-10 reads CDr media very well. Yes, it's time consuming to go that route, but it's not terribly costly.

 

I agree regarding Mnemo's device. I had thought about jumping on one last year, but it was going to be well over $300 after it was all said and done. I didn't remember it being so expensive looking at the option in years prior.

[Greg2600]

@Austin he has progressively increased his prices over the years, which is kind of ridiculous given the product has been in production for so long.  His USB-GDROM for Dreamcast is a "reasonable" ~ $140 but he has no choice there because there's so many DC options and frankly, his is easily the most out of date and least functional with zero improvement.  Heck, he's never done squat to improve the 3DO device.  Supposedly he will also accept a Western Union transfer in USD. 

[youxia]

I just got a 3DO, Japanese FZ-1 model in a pretty good nick with one pad. Paid ~200 USD, not sure if it's a lot or not, but my main motive, like with all my recent purchases, is that these things are NOT going down in price anytime soon, if ever. So, baring some unfortunate accident, it's just a fun way of saving money.

 

I quite like the machine itself, and it's really exciting to own this piece of history which I couldn't even dream of affording back then. Especially because it was such a wild, bombastic project. And it's got an interesting library of games too.

 

I'm not gonna do any mods to it, currently using composite which I think is rather poor for a 1993 machine, but just ordered a S-Video cable and I'm pretty sure it'll be enough for my CRT. I'm somewhat skeptical of claims that 240p would look better, even if I prefer the original look since most of these games are not so imporatnt and/or might be FMV-heavy. The prices for various ODES really look ker-razy, so happy I'm not at all bothered by burning CDs. And big thanks to these guys for not making the life of future enthusiasts hard by employing some sort of protection.

[Flojomojo]

On 1/27/2022 at 3:49 PM, Austin said:

A FZ-10 reads CDr media very well. Yes, it's time consuming to go that route, but it's not terribly costly.

A potential benefit of doing that would be to slow down consumption, and really think about what to try and play next. New 3DO games were $60 each so doubt many people would be thoughtlessly by everything up just to have a huge collection. 

 

Take some time, choose what you want, dig into it …sounds more satisfying than just a pile of ISO ROMs. 
 

I sold off my 3DO a while back, because along with my Nuon player, they just can’t compete for my attention and space anymore, especially since like the Jaguar, many of the titles are available on PC. It’s a fun little slice of history though, and it’s not that hard to think back to when FMV games were an interesting experiment. 
 

I discovered this site recently. I wonder if full motion video games have their fans, just like any other genre or style?

https://fmvworld.com/games.html

[Austin]

12 hours ago, youxia said:

I'm not gonna do any mods to it, currently using composite which I think is rather poor for a 1993 machine, but just ordered a S-Video cable and I'm pretty sure it'll be enough for my CRT. I'm somewhat skeptical of claims that 240p would look better, even if I prefer the original look since most of these games are not so imporatnt and/or might be FMV-heavy. The prices for various ODES really look ker-razy, so happy I'm not at all bothered by burning CDs. And big thanks to these guys for not making the life of future enthusiasts hard by employing some sort of protection.

IMO, 240p on the 3DO absolutely does look better. The reason is that unlike something like the PS2 (or the few PS1 and Saturn games that ran at higher resolutions natively), the 3DO renders everything internally at 240p first. It then passes this signal through its own internal scaler, forcing the output to your TV as 480i. What you get is 240p games that would otherwise look nice and crisp, being turned into smeared messes that are shaky and unstable. I suppose the faux "high-resolution" look has its own certain kind of charm considering the 3DO was the only platform at the time that did it across the board, but trust me when I say that everything looks way more solid in 240p. I'm lucky to have a Japanese FZ-1 with a native 240p switch, so it's been easy to tell the difference first-hand. Regardless, not having it isn't the end of the world. There's something to be said for experiencing these consoles the way that the average person would have back in the day. We never had models with 240p switches in the US back then, and it wasn't until more recently that enthusiasts began discovering some Japanese units having them out of the box, along with how to mod other units with the capability.