Atari 5200 joystick coupler

[Lynxpro]

Ah, I wish I could have seen this before spending 5 hours in CAD...

But I did my own version of the 7800 coupling..

Maybe we can swap .STLs?

IMG_4398.JPGIMG_4400.JPG

 

My fit could be better and I also revised the back "clips"

Coupling revision.PNG

 

 

Good work. Your Atari Fuji logo is bigger on your 7800 Coupler than on the real thing. I posted one pic of the Real McCoy on my user profile here. I'll have to dig out some more pics I took of it in the past...

[CRTGAMER]

@ amiman99 - Still interested in your couplers, I can wait until you get the design tweaked out. Any thoughts on the WICO coupler I teased on the previous page?

 

Ah, I wish I could have seen this before spending 5 hours in CAD...But I did my own version of the 7800 coupling. My fit could be better and I also revised the back "clips"

 

THANK YOU for uploading your STL file to the Thingiverse site. I downloaded the file a few days ago and had it printed up at my local library for a nominal fee.

 

Couple minor issues

The 3d print took around 24 hours and this was at 10% hollow default! Library staff was gracious to let it run by itself overnight.The plastic base warped a bit at the top right when cooling. This probably due to the printer did not have a heated base. The clips do get in the way from sliding the 7800 controllers in.

 

Fixes

After breaking away the excess "casting" supports, I left ridges inside the controller pocket cavities to allow for a snug fit. A heat gun (hair dryer can also work) warmed up the plastic allow to flatting out the warp at the base. I also warmed up the clips and bent the tips out just enough to clear the controllers. HAVE CARE THE PLASTIC HAS LOW MELTING POINT AND DO NOT LEAVE IN SUN! I left support tiers in the holes and kept the bottom base peel ribbons intact for added strength. Instead of black, I went with grey as a nice contrast matched similar to the aluminum name plate of the controllers.Take a close look at the picture below, I glued a piece of white plastic wall underneath for added strength and stability. The plastic leftover from bathroom repair and can be purchased at Home Depot.

 

7800 Gameplay

Due to leaving just a bit of the "casting" ridges inside, the controllers a nice snug fit. The coupler assembly best held as an oversized PS1 controller using thumbs just like the dual shock. 7800 Robotron is so much better played twinstick with the coupler, now matched gameplay to the 5200 twinstick coupler. I plan to keep the 7800 controllers in the couplers to prevent wearing out the snug fit. I have plenty of better quality 2600 Joystiks (WICO, EPYX, Genesis ) for the other games.

 

Edited January 28, 2018 by CRTGAMER

[BIGHMW]

@ amiman99 - Still interested in your couplers, I can wait until you get the design tweaked out. Any thoughts on the WICO coupler I teased on the previous page?

 

 

THANK YOU for uploading your STL file to the Thingiverse site. I downloaded the file a few days ago and had it printed up at my local library for a nominal fee.

 

Couple minor issues

The 3d print took around 24 hours and this was at 10% hollow default! Library staff was gracious to let it run by itself overnight.The plastic base warped a bit at the top right when cooling. This probably due to the printer did not have a heated base. The clips do get in the way from sliding the 7800 controllers in.

 

Fixes

After breaking away the excess "casting" supports, I left ridges inside the controller pocket cavities to allow for a snug fit. A heat gun (hair dryer can also work) warmed up the plastic allow to flatting out the warp at the base. I also warmed up the clips and bent the tips out just enough to clear the controllers. HAVE CARE THE PLASTIC HAS LOW MELTING POINT! I left support tiers in the holes and kept the bottom base peel ribbons intact for added strength. Instead of black, I went with grey as a nice contrast matched similar to the aluminum name plate of the controllers.Take a close look at the picture below, I glued a piece of white plastic wall underneath for added strength and stability. The plastic leftover from bathroom repair and can be purchased at Home Depot.

 

7800 Gameplay

Due to leaving just a bit of the "casting" ridges inside, the controllers a nice snug fit. The coupler assembly best held as an oversized PS1 controller using thumbs just like the dual shock. 7800 Robotron is so much better played twinstick with the coupler, now matched gameplay to the 5200 twinstick coupler. I plan to keep the 7800 controllers in the couplers to prevent wearing out the snug fit. I have plenty of better quality 2600 Joystks (WICO, EPYX, Genesis ) for the other games.

 

7800 Twinstick Coupler DanthWader.jpg

 

Nice! Can you do me up one (or two) in "Sexy Black"? I like this design even better.

[CRTGAMER]

 

Nice! Can you do me up one (or two) in "Sexy Black"? I like this design even better.

 

Not my design, credit goes to DanthWader. You can download the file at the Thingiverse site and have it printed locally at your college, library or retailer.

 

Thanks again to DanthWader for all the hard work!

 

[amiman99]

I made small modification to my 7800 coupler. To prevent the joysticks from sliding out, I drilled holes in the tabs and used existing screws to keep them in place. I opted on drilling instead printing the holes, I think it's much stronger that way.

See the picture.

 

I think I'm ready to sell both of mine couplers. I think the fair price is $14 each, or $24 for both, plus shipping. Shipping in the USA, could be between $5 and $8, maybe less if the USPS calculator is correct using First Class mail package.

I can only do 2, maybe 3 couplers a day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[amiman99]

@ amiman99 - Still interested in your couplers, I can wait until you get the design tweaked out. Any thoughts on the WICO coupler I teased on the previous page?

 

I could design coupler for that, but I don't have this kind of joystick, same goes for the original Atari joysticks. I tried to find them locally, but I couldn't. When I see one on Ebay cheap I try to get one.

[AtariBrian]

I made small modification to my 7800 coupler. To prevent the joysticks from sliding out, I drilled holes in the tabs and used existing screws to keep them in place. I opted on drilling instead printing the holes, I think it's much stronger that way.

See the picture.

 

I think I'm ready to sell both of mine couplers. I think the fair price is $14 each, or $24 for both, plus shipping. Shipping in the USA, could be between $5 and $8, maybe less if the USPS calculator is correct using First Class mail package.

I can only do 2, maybe 3 couplers a day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looking at that photo looks like that screw will now not be able to go into the controller all the way ?? I could possibly see that being an issue for the integrity of the controller and buttons ... those screws need to be pretty tight on that controller . Just a concern I thought worth mentioning . Everything looks great though and thanks for putting the time in to make these .

[Lynxpro]

I don't have an original 5200 Joystick Coupler but I can tell you that the real 7800 Couplers have "feet" on the bottom of them. You guys might want to add 4 of them on yours for further stability.

[amiman99]

I can get about 1 and half turns into the joystick, and the joystick is held firmly in the coupler.

Seems solid, but of course longer screws would be better.

[CRTGAMER]

I made small modification to my 7800 coupler. To prevent the joysticks from sliding out, I drilled holes in the tabs and used existing screws to keep them in place. I opted on drilling instead printing the holes, I think it's much stronger that way.

 

Neat idea, the screw at the bottom indent marks the bottom of the 7800 controller so not an issue. Another work around after printing is let the buyer bend the clip locally with a heat gun or hair dryer. Ideal to trial fit the controllers not fully wedged in while plastic clip is warm and bend the stop up just enough to friction hold yet still allow removal. Also good to leave the rough from the removed excess plastic inside which also contributes to getting a snug wear in fit.

 

Sent you PM, prefer not to have the hole in the STL file. This due to allowance for different diameter screw or even a pin.

 

I don't have an original 5200 Joystick Coupler but I can tell you that the real 7800 Couplers have "feet" on the bottom of them. You guys might want to add 4 of them on yours for further stability.

 

I own the original 5200 coupler, and the other type 7800 printed out. Plastic feet are not needed. The 5200 analog sticks have a lot of give due to no centering springs so not really a slippage issue. Best held as an oversized PS1 controller and use thumbs on the sticks. If placed on the table, RUBBER stick on feet a better choice easily purchased at the local hardware or electronics store.

[CRTGAMER]

Sent you PM. Looking forward to trying out both couplers!

[Lynxpro]

 

Neat idea, the screw at the bottom indent marks the bottom of the 7800 controller so not an issue. Another work around after printing is let the buyer bend the clip locally with a heat gun or hair dryer. Ideal to trial fit the controllers not fully wedged in while plastic clip is warm and bend the stop up just enough to friction hold yet still allow removal. Also good to leave the rough from the removed excess plastic inside which also contributes to getting a snug wear in fit.

 

Sent you PM, prefer not to have the hole in the STL file. This due to allowance for different diameter screw or even a pin.

 

 

I own the original 5200 coupler, and the other type 7800 printed out. Plastic feet are not needed. The 5200 analog sticks have a lot of give due to no centering springs so not really a slippage issue. Best held as an oversized PS1 controller and use thumbs on the sticks. If placed on the table, RUBBER stick on feet a better choice easily purchased at the local hardware or electronics store.

 

 

That's what I meant. Atari's unreleased 7800 Coupler has round feet [4 of them] and removable rubber coverings on them, similar to what's on the bottom of furniture so you can move them around on a wood floor. Maybe I should take a pic to better illustrate my point. I'll do that in the next couple of days.

[amiman99]

FYI, I noticed that 5200 coupler printed in my new black PLA is tiny bit smaller then my silver PLA causing a tight fit. I'm testing a solution. The 7800 coupler is fine.

[CRTGAMER]

Atari's unreleased 7800 Coupler has round feet [4 of them] and removable rubber coverings on them, similar to what's on the bottom of furniture so you can move them around on a wood floor. Maybe I should take a pic to better illustrate my point. I'll do that in the next couple of days.

 

I think I can picture what you mean. The plastic foot tip can be covered by a short rubber cap. The stick on route should be okay and does not have to be sized matched to the plastic foot. Any plastic foot printed will require the entire bottom covered with excess plastic supports needed for the "casting" of the 3d print. This would add to the cost and a pain to clean off considering sometimes a crusty peel off of the casting off the floor of the printer. It is why I went with that white plastic sheet on mine; to cover the roughness and peeling plastic strips on the bottom of the coupler.

 

FYI, I noticed that 5200 coupler printed in my new black PLA is tiny bit smaller then my silver PLA causing a tight fit. I'm testing a solution. The 7800 coupler is fine.

 

I can see that happening, the ABS having higher heat melt property settling differently when cooling down. Sanding out the opening could help at the sacrifice of breaking thru the hollow walls of the casting.

 

On the other hand, Any loose coupler could be easily repaired by:

 

1. When removing excess plastic supports, leave rough ridges intact reducing size inside the pockets.

 

2. Heat gun used to soften plastic just enough to bend in slightly. Remove heat gun, insert wedge of 7800 controller not quite fully in and collapse just a tiny bit. After cool down, the controller can be shoved all the way in for the snug fit.

 

3. Add layer of electrical tape inside the pocket gummy side against the plastic. This reduces the pocket size slightly allowing for snug fit.

Edited January 31, 2018 by CRTGAMER

[CRTGAMER]

The 5200 and 7800 Couplers came in, gave both a test run. Thank you for manufacturing and selling the couplers. Both outstanding accessories to enhance game play and rediscovering twinstick capability for each console.

 

5200 Coupler

Though thin plastic, holds up well with the free float of the analog sticks. The coupler is more compact then the original Atari factory coupler. A small concern of the plastic pocket being just around the stick instead of the entire base support of the original. Perhaps build up on the thickness of the plastic? A compromise of added strength vs added cost to justify twinstick for just the two games.Robotron and Space Dungeon.

 

 

7800 Coupler

The plastic is thin which at first gave me the impression that it might break. Has held up and works out well as a light weight housing. I had suggested earlier to make the bottom lock clip wider to prevent breakage. Now I see with the clip being narrow an easier flex to snap in the 7800 stick. That clip has to bend down then snap back; if it were wider might break the bottom side of the pocket. The clip could be wider if kept the same thickness, but only if the main pocket is thicker plastic. This puts the flex point at the clip and not the pocket holding the 7800 stick. Adding a screw in the clip not really needed though it can help locking in the controller.

 

The design though thin material is solid; the 7800 stick not as stiff as a 2600 joystick. Thicker plastic will add strength though how much added has to be weighed cost justification for just one 7800 twinstick game Robotron. On the other hand, there are a few 2600 games that support twinstick gameplay. This leads to an advantage of this design over the other larger DanthWader design. THE FIRE BUTTONS ARE EXPOSED ALLOWING EASY ACCESS. Even for Robotron, the fire button needed to start a game. Unlike twinstick Robotron, the 2600 twinstick games still utilize the fire button during game play. The controller assembly can be held in one hand operating the fire button and other hand to select operate each stick.

 

 

Conclusion

Both couplers are best played holding the two stick assembly as an oversized Playstation duel shock controller; each stick operated with thumbs. Slippage is nearly non existent when held this way with hands wrapped around the coupler. Both couplers ergonomically rounded inviting the duel shock approach. If either attempted to play as a table top controller, this would increase the breakage risk and slippage. The only change I would make is making the each design in a bit thicker plastic for strength. Not really critical, the couplers actually more fragile if stored without controllers inserted. One just have to be wary not to store in a box with controllers and cables winding around laying on top due to crush risk. Adding thickness will have two disadvantages; added cost and less flex for inserting the controllers. Great design, lightweight thin, non obtrusive and works very well.

[amiman99]

Thanks for the review!

[Fingolfin]

Bought a set of 5200 and 7800 controller couplers from amiman99 in the last week and am very pleased with both.

Three thumbs up (after playing video games for so many years, I've actually grown an extra thumb!).

 

I've never had a 5200 controller coupler previously and within a 1/2 hour or so of playing Robotron and Space Dungeon after putting the coupler to use, I broke both of my previous high scores, Robotron by over 20,000 (from 84,475 to 106,675) and Space Dungeon by nearly 10,000 (from 37,355 to 46,550).

 

I really like the feel of the 5200 controller coupler; it is very light, yet seems quite durable and fits the 5200 controllers well.

And it sure beats my old setup of rubber bands and a couple of pieces of cardboard (i.e. wedged underneath).

 

Using the 7800 controller coupler works just as well as the 5200 coupler. I nearly doubled my high score on Robotron on the 7800, from somewhere in the mid/upper 60,000s to 123,550.

 

Again the 7800 coupler feels great: it is lightweight, durable/strong/flexible and fits the controllers well.

 

I highly recommended trying them; especially if you have Robotron for either system or Space Dungeon for the 5200.

 

Great work amiman99!

Thank you for making and offering these.

[Fingolfin]

Keeping mostly on topic I thought I'd make one addition and ask two questions...

Addition:

Last night I used a pair of 7800 joysticks with amiman99's coupler plugged into my 130XE on the 8 bit versions of Robotron and Space Dungeon; really cool! Both worked and played great in dual joystick mode!

Of course there are the differences between the 7800 and 5200 controllers for these games but it's cool to be able to use dual controllers on all 4 versions.

Also it would seem that both of these 8 bit versions of Robotron and Space Dungeon are very similar to the 5200 versions.

Questions:

1) Are the 8 bit versions of Robotron and Space Dungeon different from the 5200 versions?

If so, how? Thoughts about these games running on the two different architectures/systems?

Are there any differences besides perhaps processor clock speed, maybe? I noticed that the 8 bit version of Space Dungeon seemed a tad slower than the 5200 version.

I am aware of some of the existing hardware differences and similarities of the 5200 and Atari's 8 bit computers but know nothing of the history of these projects on their respective machines....

2) Do you think the 8 bit or 5200 version of Robotron is harder than, easier than or just a little too different to compare with the 7800 version of Robotron?

Thanks for reading and considering!

Edited February 10, 2018 by Fingolfin

[amiman99]

1 and 2. I only have Robotron for 7800 and Space dungeon for 5200, so I can't comment on that. Maybe side by side comparison using YouTube videos???

 

Someone who has all versions could comment on that.

 

I do have MCC-216 with Atari 800 core, so I could try it and see if I could see/feel any differences.

[CRTGAMER]

Addition:

Last night I used a pair of 7800 joysticks with amiman99's coupler plugged into my 130XE on the 8 bit versions of Robotron and Space Dungeon; really cool! Both worked and played great in dual joystick mode! Of course there are the differences between the 7800 and 5200 controllers for these games but it's cool to be able to use dual controllers on all 4 versions. Also it would seem that both of these 8 bit versions of Robotron and Space Dungeon are very similar to the 5200 versions.

 

A very nice discovery, thanks for pointing this out! I do not own 8 bit computers, good move in using the coupler combined with the 7800 sticks. There might be other dual stick games on the Atari 400/800. A good game to try out is Crossfire made by Sierra. I play that game from the Vic20/C64 days as an emulated Atari 800 version on my Dreamcast with a modded dual arcade stick; the Blaze Twin Shock.

 

Though I cannot compare 5200 and Atari 800 Robotron, both should be near identical. The 5200 is was designed based on the hardware of the Atari 8 bit computers. This allowed an easy recoding of existing games over to the console accommodating the analog sticks. Based on that, both games should be matched identical in game play difficulty.

 

7800 Robotron also similar, but does seem just a bit different compared to the 5200/800. The 7800 sound chip was downgraded; Robotron still has all the same beeps, blasts and explosions of the Arcade. One thing of note concerning 5200 vs 7800 Williams games, graphic tweak upgrade in additional color of the sprites of Joust. The 7800 is also advertised at handling more sprites on the screen which is handy for Robotron.

Edited February 13, 2018 by CRTGAMER

[CRTGAMER]

The twinstick coupler is perfect for a 7800 game at the Atari Age Store. I'm on the wish list, hopefully more will be produced. Anyone interested, visit the store. Please add your name to the Wish List to show if enough interest for more to be produced.

T:ME SALVO - https://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1101

Gameplay
Your goal is to shoot all of the Morlock enemies, avoid being shot, and protect the four humanoids that eventually appear in each level. If you happen to lose all humanoids in a level, the lights will go out. In the dark the enemies will become more aggressive and an invincible hulking enemy will tirelessly hunt you down until the level is complete. Shooting at the hulk will push him back, but only a little. If the brain enemy manages to touch a humanoid, it will be converted into a killer prog. The prog will race through the battlefield after you until you shoot it, or it kills you. Periodically you'll need to reload ammunition. An alarm will sound when you have ten bullets left, and you'll see a pack of replacement ammunition appear on the battlefield. Touch the ammunition to reload. A destroyed enemy will sometimes leave behind a smart bomb. If you touch the smart bomb before it disappears, each enemy on the battlefield will be destroyed. Every two levels you'll encounter the challenge stage, where four waves of enemies will race across the screen in differing patterns. If you manage to shoot all of the enemies in the challenge stage, you'll earn an extra life!

Dual Joystick Support
If you have two joysticks that are suitably anchored, you can switch T:ME Salvo into "2Stick" mode at the title screen. When using this mode, the left stick moves the player, and the right stick controls the shooting direction, similar to the arcade game Robotron 2084.

Edited February 17, 2018 by CRTGAMER

[Fingolfin]

Overdue Update:

Two weeks later and I really like these couplers and how they impact/improve gameplay.

Using these couplers I have been playing a lot of 5200 Robotron 2084 (cart) and Space Dungeon (cart) and 7800 Robotron 2084 (cart), as well as some of the 8 bit versions of Robotron 2084 (.rom/.car version) and the 5200 Space Dungeon port (.xex file version) for Atari 8 bit computers (both titles played using the 7800 controllers with coupler).

 

Continuing to chip away and improve at both Robotron and Space Dungeon on the 5200.

Consistently improved play and incrementally higher scores with 5200 Robotron: up to 131,575 (from 106,675 two weeks ago). Robotron on the 5200 is fast and furious and a whole lot of fun with controllers properly coupled!

 

Making slower progress with 5200 Space Dungeon -- that game and it's A.I./programmed enemies and how they'll appear so fast from any of the sides of the screen and home in on the player is quite challenging (just like the arcade). On page 6 of the game manual it also states that the enemy A.I. ramps up based on how long the player is in a dungeon/level. The whole manual for Space Dungeon is digitally reprinted here (@ AtariAge of course!). Have not yet improved my high score on Space Dungeon from two weeks ago but feel like I'm slowly getting better at surviving longer and exploring dungeon/levels more thoroughly.

 

Have been able to nearly triple my high score on 7800 Robotron from two weeks ago: 293,875 (from 123,550). Really starting to get comfortable with this version of Robotron using the coupler and standard 7800 sticks. Fast paced, great fun and maybe a little less frantic/furious than the 5200 version but then again there's also the very different controllers to consider for accounting for this difference: it may be that 7800 Robotron is just a little less frantic/furious because control is a little more precise (i.e. with the 7800 controllers you don't have to worry about over compensating the way you (may) have to with the 5200 digital controllers).

 

With the 8 bit computer version of Robotron and the 5200 port of Space Dungeon, I have been able to make similar progress in gameplay and higher scores using amiman99's coupler and a pair of 7800 controllers.

To me, the 5200 Robotron and 8 bit Robotron are so similar that there's really just the difference of the controllers.

 

Also have realized there's a fair amount of slow down with the 5200 port of Space Dungeon: this actually helps and makes the game a bit easier to play. I've made much more progress due to this fact in playing the 5200 port of Space Dungeon for 8 bit (vs. the 5200 original version of Space Dungeon which is considerably faster in game play/performance). Please note: this is not meant in any way as a criticism of the port; I really enjoy Space Dungeon and very much appreciate the fact I can a) play it on 8 bit Atari computers too and b) play it slowed down some vs. the original 5200 version.

 

To return to previous questions I posted (see above if interested):

The 5200 Robotron and 8 bit Atari computer version of Robotron seem the same, or at least are very, very similar; I cannot distinguish any graphic or gameplay differences. Pace of game, graphics details and levels all seem very similar if not identical. Of course there are the controller differences to be sure (5200 vs. 7800).

Any thoughts from others here about 5200 Robotron vs. 8 bit version? Graphics or gameplay differences?

 

I would say that graphically the 7800 version is a bit more detailed (player, enemies and humans are larger and seem to have more detail) than the 5200/Atari 8 bit computer versions. I can't say that either game's performance/speed is superior to the other; they're a little different but both represent Robotron 2084 from the arcade quite well.

Any thoughts about 5200 Robotron / 8 bit computer version of Robotron vs. 7800 Robotron? Graphics or gameplay differences?

 

5200 Space Dungeon and the 8 bit port for Atari computers are different: the latter is a port and although all of the details of the 5200 version are present, the port is noticeably slower (and as I see it a little easier to play).

 

Thanks for taking the time to read and possibly respond to this post.

 

To CRTGAMER, I'll take another look at T:ME SALVO and add my name to the wish list there too.

 

Thanks again for making and selling these 5200 and 7800 controller couplers amiman99!

 

Best Regards

Fingolfin

Edited February 23, 2018 by Fingolfin

[CRTGAMER]

I would say that graphically the 7800 version is a bit more detailed (player, enemies and humans are larger and seem to have more detail) than the 5200/Atari 8 bit computer versions. I can't say that either game's performance/speed is superior to the other; they're a little different but both represent Robotron 2084 from the arcade quite well.

 

5200 Space Dungeon and the 8 bit port for Atari computers are different: the latter is a port and although all of the details of the 5200 version are present, the port is noticeably slower (and as I see it a little easier to play).

 

To CRTGAMER, I'll take another look at T:ME SALVO and add my name to the wish list there too.

 

Great post! Concerning your Atari computer, did you get a chance to try Crossfire? I have played the download version 7800 Salvo which has inspiration of Crossfire and Robotron, definitely will buy the cart version!

 

Salvo - http://atariage.com/forums/topic/224469-salvo/

[Fingolfin]

 

Great post! Concerning your Atari computer, did you get a chance to try Crossfire?

 

 

Thanks CRTGAMER.

 

Yes I did try Crossfire and unfortunately there does not seem to be an option for dual stick use, which is too bad because that'd work great (better than existing/standard Crossfire control scheme).

Keep in mind Robotron 2084 is a 16k cart on the 8 bit Atari computers while Crossfire is only an 8k cart; might explain the difference/lack of alternative control options (or the programmers didn't think of it at the time?).

[CRTGAMER]

T:ME SALVO - $30 Atari Age Store - https://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1101

 

Wow, back in stock, placed an order. I have been wanting to play this game on the 7800 taking full advantage with the Twinstick Coupler. Comes with cart and game manual, price drop to $30 due to no more boxes.

 

@ RevEng - Thanks for the heads up!

 

 

Dual Joystick Support

If you have two joysticks that are suitably anchored, you can switch T:ME Salvo into "2Stick" mode at the title screen. When using this mode, the left stick moves the player, and the right stick controls the shooting direction, similar to the arcade game Robotron 2084.

 

Additional Information

T:ME Salvo includes a game cartridge and full-color, 8-page manual.

 

Number Players - 1

Controller - 1 or 2 Joysticks

Cartridge Size - 48k