Andromeda Stardust Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Iceman, desoldering vintage chips is like performing a delicate surgery, when the patient is the electronics. It's a huge pain in the ass, and likelyhood of damage is high. So if I was desoldering chips for a client you can bet your ass I'd want to be compensated. My cheap ass bulb sucker from Radioshack doesn't get every last bit of solder up, and I needed to wiggle the pins in many cases to break off any residual solder bridges with the holes. Do this 40 times per chip, when it is absolutely necessary to preserve both the chip and the pcb. That's a total of 80 opportunities you have to break a pin, burn or lift a trace, ect. If you are so sure of your abilities, then please, show us a video of yourself desoldering an nes cpu and ppu in 2-3 minutes without damage as you claim. That's about one component lead every 2 seconds. And obviously better tools exist which improve workflow efficiency, but you are bragging here with zero evidence to back your claims. Think a Hi Def NES kit can be built for less than $10 in parts? Feel free to design your own non-infringing product and compete with the likes of Kevtris, Game Tech, Analogue, Krikzz, RetroUSB, etc... I'm sure they'd probably be flattered to see what you come up with. You've trolled and crapped in every thread concerning mod hardware or console upgrades and contributed nothing of worth but pick fights with people who disagree with you. If you don't care about modding or hdmi consoles, then why are you still here? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 (edited) even with my bulb sucker its not THAT big of a deal I might even take you up on that offer kosmic with a manual sucker and not my robo mom golf ball powered sucker as I have a NES with a murdered PPU but a good CPU, and since I cant find a PPU might as well do something with the board course it wont be 2 min flat with a bulb sucker, but its not going to be white knuckle, sweat from brow, hours on end anal surgery on a nuke I also like how it went from 1 40 pin dip in 2 min with power tools to 2 with a hand pump in less than 3 pages edit yea I guess he did say cpu and ppu, I was assuming 1 40 pin dip in a couple min, which I can do with the suck o matic, but give me a day or 2 ill post a video of one chip and a handjob Edited January 31, 2018 by Osgeld 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 even with my bulb sucker its not THAT big of a deal I might even take you up on that offer kosmic with a manual sucker and not my robo mom golf ball powered sucker as I have a NES with a murdered PPU but a good CPU, and since I cant find a PPU might as well do something with the board course it wont be 2 min flat with a bulb sucker, but its not going to be white knuckle, sweat from brow, hours on end anal surgery on a nuke Yeah I may be exaggerating slightly. It is still extremely tedius work though. I did a successful CopyUSB install to my NES, DSP1 chip in an Everdrive, and obviously the Panic Restaurant mask ROM to donor PCB, which was my most flawless effort. Nothing against anyone here. I don't do fine pitch or smt work which was why I sent my N64 off to get modded for HDMI. It just burns me to have a certain forum member pissing around acting like a know-it-all picking random fights and ruining otherwise civil threads pertaining to new projects or console mods. Every thread he posts in quickly goes downhill. Maybe it is time to add an entry to my blocked user list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZroe Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 https://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fr300.html Took me longer to find this image as most of the pics of it are the other side of it but here pdf manual https://www.hakkousa.com/files/index/download/id/15588/ I was told incorrectly. Thanks for the correction. I still prefer the digital temp settings on their benchtop units but this definitely makes the portable unit as capable as any other for the job. Yes desoldering 2 chips with a Hakko FR-300 IS EASY and if it is not easy for you w/that tool then well you kind of suck at what you do. I'm not letting you put words in my mouth no matter how many times you try to regurgitate the same shit you keep spitting out. Yes. The hardest part can also be easy... with a $330 tool. You aren’t arguing in a vacuum. You know how someone justifies a $330 tool? By charging $50 to do a simple job with it. People weigh the opportunity cost against the risk and effort of the alternatives to decide it paying is right for them. Would it be easy for someone to remove ANY chip w/out proper tools, no and I never said it was. Don't come in a conversation where I disagree with someone that using a desoldering gun doesn't make quick work of removing chips when it damn well does! Then try and tell me I said the chips can be easily removed via any method because that is NOT what I said and you damn well know it. So now what are you arguing? Cost of Labor? Cost of Kit? Split it up buddy. I have different opinions on them all. This is simply the consequence of you moving the goal post all over the place attempting to win your argument. It’s laughable. You criticized every tiny particular of the Hi-Def NES’ existence from conceptualization to final, installed, product and somehow always sided against it. It’s not hard to detect bias when you can’t even admit that the market decides what something is worth (everything from labor to parts to tools). You argued that it was easy while ignoring the price that made it easy. You argued that cheaper solutions were just as fast while ignoring the skill that it took to get that speed. You argued that the labor was not worth $50 while ignoring that the market proves otherwise. Just grow up and stop trying to dictate what everyone else’s time and money is worth. It’s an unwinnable argument. If you are telling someone you need $50 to remove two chips because it takes you an hour when it takes someone w/proper tools just a few minutes then I am NOT sorry for letting the cat out of the bag.LOL! Still at it. Want to talk about putting words in people’s mouths: when did I ever imply that it takes me an hour just because my station isn’t as good as a Hakko 808/FR300? Total, made-up, imaginary, nonsense. That’s what happens when you get backed into a corner by your own failed argument and still stubbornly refuse to admit you are wrong. Now, you know how someone pays for their “proper tools?” By charging $50 to do a job it makes quick work of. ...and you’ve got the time/effort argument completely backwards. The time and effort factors into THE BUYER’S DECISION on whether or not to DIY, and that buyer isn’t going to have that $330 tool. It’s the buyer who decides if $50 is worth the time, effort, AND RISK of doing it without that $330 tool. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 Damn still going eh?? How about that HDMI update? Crazy it's in there isn't it, somewhere? Maybe? I read that kit was coming back, hopefully as soon as assumed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemanxp300 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 If you are so sure of your abilities, then please, show us a video of yourself desoldering an nes cpu and ppu in 2-3 minutes without damage as you claim. I did just remove the cpu and it took me 1 minute and 45 seconds to do the desoldering and then the chip fell out in my hand. I did record it but don't want you guys to hammer me over my dirty clothes I forgot that was in the area so I'm not posting it. I'll do another one for you if it is that important. Yes. The hardest part can also be easy... with a $330 tool. Holy shit, a light bulb came on. You criticized every tiny particular of the Hi-Def NES’ existence from conceptualization to final, installed, product and somehow always sided against it. Wow who knew saying an item was overpriced did all this. Damn I'm pretty good. You argued that it was easy while ignoring the price that made it easy. You argued that cheaper solutions were just as fast while ignoring the skill that it took to get that speed. You argued that the labor was not worth $50 while ignoring that the market proves otherwise. Just grow up and stop trying to dictate what everyone else’s time and money is worth. It’s an unwinnable argument. Just quote me ok. The ONLY thing I argued was easy was removing two chips. Stop typing bs and quote me! You did get me on cheaper solution. Grabbing a FREE CRT TV that does NOT require this mod is definitely a cheaper solution. As far as your labor goes $50 to remove two chips is absolutely absurd for 5 minutes of work. If you can't do it in 5 minutes that's not my problem. Anyone reading this thread. You ship me your pcb (to save on shipping) and send me $5 plus return shipping and I will cleanly and neatly remove these two chips from your pcb for you. I will even return those chips in neat plastic u-channel as I have shit tons. You should ship it in an antistatic bag, just so I don't have someone telling me I am now encouraging people to fry their boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemanxp300 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 It just burns me to have a certain forum member pissing around acting like a know-it-all picking random fights and ruining otherwise civil threads pertaining to new projects or console mods. Every thread he posts in quickly goes downhill. Maybe it is time to add an entry to my blocked user list. Right because I was wrong? My initial post that started this all was me saying the cpu and ppu chips can be removed easily in a few minutes. The ONLY other thing I mentioned in here was me saying a $125 for this kit is overpriced and if those two things makes me picking fights and pissing around well then GUILTY! Maybe you could help solve the problem and you know side with me when I am actually RIGHT! Then I wouldn't spend 5 pages going back and forth w/jackasses who can't read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZroe Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 (edited) Yes. The hardest part can also be easy... with a $330 tool.Holy shit, a light bulb came on.Or, rather, it’s been left on from the start. That was literally the very first thing I said to you in this thread. Here, I even nested the quotes: ...My hakko fr-300 literally removed the chips in like a minute or two. You removed it in a minute or two... with a $330+ tool. If this was meant to show us how easily and cheaply it could be done, then LOL!...and yet you STILL keep acting like you can just ignore the “$330+ tool” part and dictate how much the service is worth (apparently, “$5;” LOL!). Just quote me ok. The ONLY thing I argued was easy was removing two chips....and I repeatedly told you that you were ignoring the cost and accessibility of the tools that make it easy, which factor more into the cost than the ease of using the tool does. Kinda funny that I have to quote you saying something that I am faulting you for NOT addressing/acknowledging. You did get me on cheaper solution. Grabbing a FREE CRT TV that does NOT require this mod is definitely a cheaper solution.That’s the absolute worst part of your argument which was so stupid I didn’t even feel the need to address it until you tried to use it against me. Sounds like you’re definitely out of arguments to be leaning on this one. You have to be fundamentally lacking brain cells if you ever thought this was about having a compatible display. FFS, people don’t spend thousands on RGB mods and equipment because they can’t get a normal CRT with composite. You’re not stupid. You know this is also about image quality. Forcing me to spell it out to you means you’re grasping at straws to keep your argument going, yet you seemingly feel no shame for this. As far as your labor goes $50 to remove two chips is absolutely absurd for 5 minutes of work. If you can't do it in 5 minutes that's not my problem.LOL! After all this, you still think that value is determined exclusively by time and effort. No wonder you’re so confused. You don’t even understand the most basic of economic concepts, like supply and demand. Here’s a clue: If you think $50 is too much, then why isn’t everyone jumping on board, spending $330 on the tools that make it easy, and doing it for $50 too? Some did. We call that a market response to price signaling. It increases supply. What happens when increased supply satiates the same demand? Prices must go down. Price signals draw fewer new installers until the market reaches and equilibrium with lower prices. There is no such thing as charging “too much” as long as the market supports it and pays for it. The price ensures fair distribution prioritized to those who want it most. The people paying more get it first while supplies are lower. The higher prices kept it from going to someone who appreciates it less. Clearly, people still appreciate it more than you do but you just can’t acknowledge that. You know what? I sold my personal UltraHDMI for $740 because someone appreciated it more than me. I took advantage of it and the market benefitted by increased supply. I looked at what it was worth to me to have it now versus having a cheaper one later and a simple calculation told me that it wasn’t worth hundreds of dollars to me. The cost of keeping versus selling and buying again later for less was simply too great. That’s called “opportunity cost.” It did so well that I went out of my way to find more, which means that price signaling was increasing supply yet again. One of my previous buyers originally bought two so I bought the unused one back from him for more than he paid then turned around and sold it for $800. It doesn’t matter that I paid several hundred buying it back from him when I only spend $150 on the kit and $30 on the console. The value had nothing to do with what I originally spent. Price signaling led to even more increased supply and the people who absolutely had to have one were getting satisfied. Yet you’re still hung up on how easy it is to desolder two chips with a $330+ tool. How quaint and simplistic a view. It must be nice to have such a simplistic view of price, cost, and value. Anyone reading this thread. You ship me your pcb (to save on shipping) and send me $5 plus return shipping and I will cleanly and neatly remove these two chips from your pcb for you. I will even return those chips in neat plastic u-channel as I have shit tons. You should ship it in an antistatic bag, just so I don't have someone telling me I am now encouraging people to fry their boards. Have fun dealing with postal runs, missed deliveries, lost packages, fraudulent claims, transit damage, stolen packages, etc for $5. As if everything else didn’t already make it clear that you have no concept of value, this really seals the deal. HEY EVERYONE! LOOK AT THIS GUY! Isn’t he SMART?! Don’t say it doesn’t happen either. I can show you the Nest camera footage where I almost lost 5 N64 consoles a few months ago due to a misdelivery. I almost had a heart attack when the tracking showed “delivered” with nothing on my camera but a granny from miles away dropped it off two days later (delivered to [bLANK] CT instead of [bLANK] LN). It made for some very awkward conversations with the client. Glad he waited and didn’t accuse me of taking the consoles and running. I don’t think you like where this conversation is headed but you keep going full-steam-ahead anyway. Really strange. It doesn’t get any better for you as your arguments get worse and worse. Just sayin’ that one of us is making a fool of himself and I think it’s pretty clear who has the stronger argument. I actually prefer to keep this going. Do you? Edited January 31, 2018 by CZroe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLASTER Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I guess I'm not the only one who thinks iceman is an asshole. The more I read here,the clearer it becomes that this clown is just a troll. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemanxp300 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I guess I'm not the only one who thinks iceman is an asshole. The more I read here,the clearer it becomes that this clown is just a troll. Still didn't sell that N64 yet huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignGuy81 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 (edited) I also like how it went from 1 40 pin dip in 2 min with power tools to 2 with a hand pump in less than 3 pages It is probably because some people don't realize the word "few" just means a small amount, handful, etc. Some people think it means exactly 3. I never said I could do it in 3 minutes, but it won't take the enormous amount of time they are making it out to be. Edited January 31, 2018 by SignGuy81 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I guess I'm not the only one who thinks iceman is an asshole. The more I read here,the clearer it becomes that this clown is just a troll. +1. Iceman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) being an asshole does not mean one is wrong 100% of the time After that, I sent a new car's worth of money to China to get the first run of production boards made. In what fuckin decade? I get it, there's a lot of work time effort and development tools involved, there is no other product on the market that does what this product does, and reward is deserved for hard work, but now when people start bragging about how much money they spent, I feel its in poor taste cause, chances are its going to be made back with a fat margin in the end Of course I work in a segment of the electronics industry where yea its a fact of life you are going to take it up the bum in up front cost's to end up good in the long run Edited February 1, 2018 by Osgeld 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemanxp300 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 +1. Iceman. Hell yeah It's quoted too! LOLOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepdreamin Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) Now, you know how someone pays for their “proper tools?” By charging $50 to do a job it makes quick work of. ...and you’ve got the time/effort argument completely backwards. The time and effort factors into THE BUYER’S DECISION on whether or not to DIY, and that buyer isn’t going to have that $330 tool. It’s the buyer who decides if $50 is worth the time, effort, AND RISK of doing it without that $330 tool. Having quality tools also factors into a buyer's decision. If I took my car into a shop and saw a mechanic installing spark plugs with a spanner vs a proper rubber booted socket + torque wrench, I'd turn right around. If I paid you to do some arcade board work repair and saw you bust out a $5 radio shack bulb sucker, I'd think you were running a shade tree operation. Professionalism goes a long way with customers, and having put investment into your equipment shows you're serious. I've got a Hakko808 and I don't even do mod work for hire. Edited February 1, 2018 by keepdreamin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Hell yeah It's quoted too! LOLOLYou forgot to include the emoji after the Iceman. Seems appropriate you would selectively misquote or take out of context that which srokes your own ego. P.S. - Enjoy the thistles in your yard bro. I hear they are a pain to get rid of. Merry Christmas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevtris Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 being an asshole does not mean one is wrong 100% of the time In what fuckin decade? I get it, there's a lot of work time effort and development tools involved, there is no other product on the market that does what this product does, and reward is deserved for hard work, but now when people start bragging about how much money they spent, I feel its in poor taste cause, chances are its going to be made back with a fat margin in the end Of course I work in a segment of the electronics industry where yea its a fact of life you are going to take it up the bum in up front cost's to end up good in the long run I am not bragging; I am stating the realities of how much money it cost to get them done. I wished I could've made the boards for $5 a pop, that'd been awesome. People don't realize how much investment you need to get stuff made in any great quantity. If your doodad costs you $30 in parts (note: the hi def is significantly more than this) and you wish to make 500 of them, that's a $15000 up-front cost that you need to spend before you see anything back. There is plenty of risk involved- will the boards work when you get them back? will they use legit parts or pirate parts? will they just take the cash and run? will there be major hardware issues that didn't show up on 5 units but do on 500, causing expensive rework or outright rejection of the entire batch? You are paying for the investment in both time and money that it took to get it produced and available for sale. If you can do it for less, by all means. The margin I make on the boards is getting close to the point where I might not bother to make any more, since my time is worth more being spent doing dev work for a paying customer for the time invested in the project. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZroe Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Having quality tools also factors into a buyer's decision. If I took my car into a shop and saw a mechanic installing spark plugs with a spanner vs a proper rubber booted socket + torque wrench, I'd turn right around. If I paid you to do some arcade board work repair and saw you bust out a $5 radio shack bulb sucker, I'd think you were running a shade tree operation. Professionalism goes a long way with customers, and having put investment into your equipment shows you're serious. I've got a Hakko808 and I don't even do mod work for hire. You’re absolutely right, which is one way an installer can charge more despite the job being easier with the better tools. For some reason he just can’t disconnect the concept of value versus effort in his mind. By his logic, someone using a bulb sucker can get away with charging MORE. I pointed that out to show the obvious flaw in his logic, though it still wasn’t intended to shame anyone using one professionally. He must know by now that value is not always based on effort, but he’ll never admit to this revelation. With my station, I may not have the absolute best equipment but I feel that I upgraded my equipment to a level any of my buyers would be satisfied with just by upgrading to the point I am satisfied with. I’m using a $150+ digital temperature controlled bench top unit and it definitely reduces risk and improves confidence over my lesser equipment. I wouldn’t even be offering my services without it but that has more to do with the workflow improvements than with what people think. I’ve actually had a couple visitors to my workshop who drove from another state for their UltraHDMIs and they had nothing but nice things to say about my equipment. Good enough for them, good enough for me, so I don’t need Iceman’s approval for validation. I’d have gotten a used Hakko 808 too if the prices didn’t spike after GameTechUS popularized it. Too many people have that on their eBay watch lists. I’d just as soon get a lesser but still adequate machine and use that until I have the money to splurge on an FR300 with warranty. Regardless, I’d jump on one if I could find a good deal and it is something I’ve looked for occasionally over the years. Even with my bench unit, an all-in-one like an 808 or FR300 would really come in handy for in-cabinet arcade machine work like I’ve somehow found myself doing recently (business partner bought and refurbed several machines). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemanxp300 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I'm curious about one thing. Is this not the same kit that people were pissed off over because as some point it was only available for purchase by Gametech and he was charging $250 each for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZroe Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I'm curious about one thing. Is this not the same kit that people were pissed off over because as some point it was only available for purchase by Gametech and he was charging $250 each for them.He and Kevtris announced the kit together and he remains the exclusive source. The trial run was sold mostly pre-installed through GameTechUS. The kit was revised a couple times and those batches were tested and sold through the same way. The DIY kits first went up for sale on July 3rd, 2016 and instantly sold out (well, as fast as the site could handle since it buckled under the load). IIRC, that was 200 kits and he referred all install requests to his list of preferred installers. I barely got my order in but my twin bro could not. After that he stopped doing installs and started doing batch pre-orders for the kits which definitely helped fill a good bit of the demand. The kits would rarely stay in stock long after the previous round of preorders. Now they’ve been sold out since Kevin started work on the Super NT early/mid 2017. Jason/GameTechUS never charged $250 for the kit. Buying from him is the same as buying from Kevin/Kevtris since that is exclusively where they are sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevtris Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 He and Kevtris announced the kit together and he remains the exclusive source. The trial run was sold mostly pre-installed through GameTechUS. The kit was revised a couple times and those batches were tested and sold through the same way. The DIY kits first went up for sale on July 3rd, 2016 and instantly sold out (well, as fast as the site could handle since it buckled under the load). IIRC, that was 200 kits and he referred all install requests to his list of preferred installers. I barely got my order in but my twin bro could not. After that he stopped doing installs and started doing batch pre-orders for the kits which definitely helped fill a good bit of the demand. The kits would rarely stay in stock long after the previous round of preorders. Now they’ve been sold out since Kevin started work on the Super NT early/mid 2017. Jason/GameTechUS never charged $250 for the kit. Buying from him is the same as buying from Kevin/Kevtris since that is exclusively where they are sold. This is correct. Anyone selling them for $250 was scalping. I don't doubt that happened on the first batch or two since they sold out so fast, and I do not condone it. The first bunch were preinstalled so we could work out all the kinks and make sure that when others started doing installs that it'd go smoothly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 Can this keep going. Rather no one attack the product or kevtris. I just hope it gets restocked eventually so they can be bought again. I wonder if snes would be similarly possible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadrunner Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 You should probably get a life since you stalk everyone on ebay . Is this you on ebay everynight ??? LOL, i'm not that skinny. You started a PM with me a few years ago complaining about happiestsellerever and others. Your just as bad. Go sell some overpriced controllers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadrunner Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Well you don't know how much shipping as for him unless you live in Ohio. I am in NY and it shows me $41.33 for shipping so odds are he probably paid more than $26 in shipping. On a side note how is he going to make any money off that lot by spending damn near $400. I doubt he bought that just to resell. If he did, we need to have a talk about proper flipping LOL. Buyer and seller are both in Ohio. Buyer has high prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariBrian Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Buyer and seller are both in Ohio. Buyer has high prices. Says the guy with two different ebay accounts . Speaking of those , how about you put your ebay account names here You are such an ignorant whiny troll . If one buys a bundle of games and more than half of them that were part of the purchase price nobody wants then guess what , you are stuck with a bunch of stuff that you lost money on basically . And then there are mid price games that don't work at all that you lose money on . How does make much money after fees and shipping and packing material and time and adding insurance ?? You are a re buyer which really just means you are a re seller . You buy multiples of the same game if you can get them for dirt cheap . I bet if you ever sell your games you won't be selling them for 5 bucks like what you want to pay for them We really need to find you a girlfriend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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