Writing book on Atari.

[gozar]

I’ve written stuff on the Atari using The Last Word and it works pretty well. I format the document in Markdown, so the only conversion I need to do is fix the line endings. Pandoc will convert the Markdown file into almost any format I want, even ePub or Doc.

 

I use Altirra to pull the documents out of a disk image. I should automate that part, but it hasn’t happened yet.

 

And I’m surprised no one has mentioned George R. R. Martin writing Game of Thrones with Wordstar on DOS.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bill Loguidice]

It's optimal for the person and their purpose. If they're getting it done faster, and more comfortably, it's also more efficient. Just stop trying to be right. You're not going to be. Just realize there are people who can swing a hammer faster and get a roof done more quickly than a person using a nail gun. For most the gun is better or faster. Put up against that fellow with a great skill in what he does, being fed by his partner who knows the Rhythm and flow.... he wins more than enough times over the machine wielding roofer. It's easier for each person to use the tool that suits them.

 

I'm not disagreeing. Whether you do it efficiently or inefficiently, or safely or not safely, it really doesn't matter. What matters is actually doing it. The rest of the stuff is just details that you can personally tolerate or not, e.g., having to do conversions, not having redundancy, etc. Goodness knows there are still a small, but passionate group of pen and paper and typewriter enthusiasts out there, so doing something on an old personal computer is not really that far out there. In fact, I recently gave an interview for a journal for pen enthusiasts (they also cover paper and analog stuff in general). People like what they like.

[Gunstar]

 

An Atari 8-bit or an equivalent vintage technology is definitely a tool that can accomplish said goal, albeit in not the most optimal way.

This is bullshit you've been brain washed with, IMHO. I can have my Atari with TLWP up and running, and well into my writing long before my PC desktop with all it's bloat-ware is loaded and ready, let alone starting the WP and loading a file too. How it that more optimal?

 

Yes, modern tools can be more optimal than classics sometimes, just like my modern 8-bit TLWP is compared to say, Atari Writer, but this does not apply to modern computers with bloat-ware and crappy, bug-ridden Windows in my opinion. I'll take my Atari over it any day for any writing I need to do. Especially now that I have 80 columns too, not that 40 ever bothered me personally, but yes, 80 is optimal.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Gunstar

[DavidMil]

Yep. What you are personally comfortable with is all that matters. My kids are all in their 40's and long gone, but I still take the news paper

with me to 'the can', because for many years it was the only place I could get some privacy.

 

David

[thetick1]

Yep. What you are personally comfortable with is all that matters. My kids are all in their 40's and long gone, but I still take the news paper

with me to 'the can', because for many years it was the only place I could get some privacy.

 

David

 

Now I take my Atari Flashback Portable to the can!

[Bill Loguidice]

This is bullshit you've been brain washed with, IMHO. I can have my Atari with TLWP up and running, and well into my writing long before my PC desktop with all it's bloat-ware is loaded and ready, let alone starting the WP and loading a file too. How it that more optimal?

 

Yes, modern tools can be more optimal than classics sometimes, just like my modern 8-bit TLWP is compared to say, Atari Writer, but this does not apply to modern computers with bloat-ware and crappy, bug-ridden Windows in my opinion. I'll take my Atari over it any day for any writing I need to do. Especially now that I have 80 columns too, not that 40 ever bothered me personally, but yes, 80 is optimal.

I don't know what modern computers you're using, but my Alienware laptop running Windows 10 with NVMe drive can go from power down to the desktop in about 10 seconds. My Surface Pro 3 takes only a little longer. And that's to get into a fully connected, multitasking OS with access to all of my software. My iPad Pro from sleep mode is pretty much instant.

 

Look, I get it, old computers are fun and have a certain charm. It's just a hard sell to say that they're actually better for doing productive work than a modern machine. I wouldn't trust my writing work - even something "fun" like a novel - to a vintage computing environment. If you or anyone else would, great. Although as a working writer I have no interest in participating in such an activity on a vintage computer myself, I certainly am interested in watching the progress of someone else doing it. I'm especially interested in the workflow as it relates to taking the work from whatever, be it hand written, a typewriter, or a vintage computer, and making it usable on modern machines where the final processing has to happen.

[_The Doctor__]

Yes, because we all need power hungry 8 core or more zillion gigahertz computers to type... ... seriously Bill to type?

Next we get to hear a Lear jet is the way to get lunch in the town that's an 18 minutes drive by car just because we can.

Yes boys this is life of the overly important, wanna be rich and famous! w00t!

I do, I hear Robin Leech saying, "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous!". Why would someone use an actual Kleenex to wipe their nose when you can use this fine silk handkerchief, and just for fun when we're done... throw it away! Maybe he's worried about a competitor in the book market. Let's troll the classic computing guys for some ideas! Next stop books and shows you don't know on PBS!

Seriously! Let's walk in to someones party and dress them down that they shouldn't have a single layer cake (even if it's their favorite) and tell them all the different cake you have at your party and how great it is going down. I don't even understand why you keep pushing your point unless this is some kind of research project on why someone would do such a thing as to use classic machines in the process of writing literature.

 

It's one thing to butt in with 2 cents.... but at this point it's feeling like several thousand dollars. Just sayin'.

 

In case it's not understood, I can do hyperbole too.

I'll be with FlashJazzCat, he's going to need help cataloging all kinds of stuff for eBay.

Edited February 7, 2018 by _The Doctor__

[flashjazzcat]

+1 for the "pen enthusiasts", Martin Amis among them, apparently.

[Bill Loguidice]

Yes, because we all need power hungry 8 core or more zillion gigahertz computers to type... ... seriously Bill to type?

 

 

If being able to "type" anywhere, at any time, and pick up right where you left off and never have to worry about losing your work (and in fact being able to track many revisions, for whatever reason you might need that) is "elitist" or some other term, so be it. It's the reality of the benefits of the modern workflow, and certainly doesn't require any investment beyond what 99% of us already own. With that in mind, if someone wants to write a novel at a specific place at a specific time on a specific piece of vintage hardware, more power to them. It's ultimately whatever gets you to do the actual work. Many times, however, more time is spent on setting up just the right work environment or using some other crutch or excuse for not doing the actual writing (and no, I'm not saying that's the case here, I'm just saying that would-be writers love to procrastinate and latch onto any excuse, conscious or otherwise, for why they're not yet writing--that's been a lesson well-learned for me in the past few decades).

 

In regards to the earlier comment about the small number of authors like George R. R. Martin who stick with vintage hardware (or even typewriters or dictation) until death do them part, that kind of eccentricity is reserved for a very elite group. Frankly, big earners like Martin could write on stone tablets and it wouldn't matter because there'd be someone on the publisher end (if not an assistant or two) eager to do the necessary translation. The vast majority of writers do not have that luxury.

 

Although I mostly stick with non-fiction work, the vast majority of major publishers I've worked with have required using a specific Word template and any associated "markup," although my most recent book for Prima was able to use Google Docs for collaboration purposes along with the necessary markup. They certainly wouldn't appreciate me using any alternatives, and I certainly don't have the power to insist otherwise. And considering how time consuming writing is, I certainly wouldn't want to bother with too many middle men in the process. Of course, with fiction writing, there are generally fewer restrictions, and just having a clean text file should generally suffice (although, of course, there are still generally some formatting requirements/expectations, which is why something like a Scrivener can be handy).

 

Anyway, I think I said my peace. I really didn't want to turn this into a debate about modern versus vintage stuff. There really is no debate there (although, obviously I love to discuss things, regardless). My original comment was merely to suggest that maybe for something time consuming and involved like writing a novel (and to avoid the potential heartbreak of losing the work), maybe using an Atari 8-bit was not the best tool these days. No one on here has to agree with that, and certainly on a board catering to hardcore vintage technology enthusiasts and a percentage of people distrustful of the cloud, big business, security, etc., whenever it's brought up, not expected. And I'm still greatly interested in the process as it unfolds, as I've been the other times people have attempted just such an endeavor, i.e., using a vintage computer to write something significant.

[Gunstar]

I got through the type anywhere bit and the rest just became blah, blah, blah. I don't want or need the ability to typer anywhere. But whatever. we are talking about typing text. If I was doing artwork for a modern game, then obviously I'd have to use a modern computer...still don't need to do it anywhere at anytime. But we are talking about TEXT.

 

Geeze...

[flashjazzcat]

Anyway, I think I said my peace.

You're secretly writing this on the A8 aren't you.

[Bill Loguidice]

I got through the type anywhere bit and the rest just became blah, blah, blah. I don't want or need the ability to typer anywhere. But whatever. we are talking about typing text. If I was doing artwork for a modern game, then obviously I'd have to use a modern computer...still don't need to do it anywhere at anytime. But we are talking about TEXT.

 

Geeze...

 

It's great that YOU don't need to type anywhere at any time, but you can't see how that might be a nice thing to be able to do if inspiration were to strike? Or are you implying that writing should only be done at a specific time and place and on a specific machine? Seems rather limiting if you are. Of course, it's only TEXT, so I guess "Geez" or something because it's not that important, right?

[Bill Loguidice]

You're secretly writing this on the A8 aren't you.

 

Maybe.

[+mytek]

I can't resist...

 

These forum postings are also just "text" why not use your A8 for that as well, and just get rid of your PC (or MAC)? And while you are at it, get rid of your HDTV, your cell phone, and all other modern devices that came after the A8. I think it's nice to revisit these old computers, but to give up much better modern solutions is not something I'm willing to do in the process. I like my Open Office, DropBox, Chrome, FireFox, and Silk browser's. I like being able to write this post laying in bed on my Fire8 tablet. And yes we all know who likes to use stuff like Rasta on their PC .

 

That's my 2 cents

[Gunstar]

 

It's great that YOU don't need to type anywhere at any time, but you can't see how that might be a nice thing to be able to do if inspiration were to strike? Or are you implying that writing should only be done at a specific time and place and on a specific machine? Seems rather limiting if you are. Of course, it's only TEXT, so I guess "Geez" or something because it's not that important, right?

That's right, if I did need to type anywhere, sure, I'd use my laptop and it's WP. BUT, I would still always prefer my 8-bit for typing at home. I'm not saying the 8-bit is still good for everything, just that it is still just as good, if not better in many way, for me, to write in the privacy of my own home, just as well as with a modern PC. I need nothing else, period. I know I'm not like everyone else with my needs and wants, but neither are you. The "Geeze" part is for you riding this thread like a personal mission pointing out how wrong and stupid the rest of us that use vintage hardware for writing are...

Edited February 7, 2018 by Gunstar

[Gunstar]

I can't resist...

 

These forum postings are also just "text" why not use your A8 for that as well, and just get rid of your PC (or MAC)? And while you are at it, get rid of your HDTV, your cell phone, and all other modern devices that came after the A8. I think it's nice to revisit these old computers, but to give up much better modern solutions is not something I'm willing to do in the process. I like my Open Office, DropBox, Chrome, FireFox, and Silk browser's. I like being able to write this post laying in bed on my Fire8 tablet. And yes we all know who likes to use stuff like Rasta on their PC .

 

That's my 2 cents

GEEZE...do you use a PC word processor for leaving messages on the forums? Is that optimal rather than using the text editor on the site? Neither is my using an 8-bit. Apples and Oranges fellow.

 

Yes, I love using Rasta to convert images to the Atari, but you won't catch me ever using G2F on the PC either for making art for the Atari, I'll use "obsolete" Atari apps for that. Apples and Oranges...

Edited February 7, 2018 by Gunstar

[+mytek]

I never got the "wrong and stupid" from what was posted. I did get that it was meant as friendly advice and concern.

[Bill Loguidice]

That's right, if I did need to type anywhere, sure, I'd use my laptop and it's WP. BUT, I would still always prefer my 8-bit for typing at home. I'm not saying the 8-bit is still good for everything, just that it is still just as good, if not better in many way, for me, to write in the privacy of my own home, just as well as with a modern PC. I need nothing else, period. I know I'm not like everyone else with my needs and wants, but neither are you. The "Geeze" part is for you riding this thread like a personal mission pointing out how wrong and stupid the rest of us that use vintage hardware for writing are...

 

It's strange to me that you'd get that impression from my various statements. Why would I think someone would be stupid for doing what they want with vintage hardware? I think I made my stance abundantly clear. Pointing out why an alternative might be a better option in a discussion forum while supporting the original poster's desired methods is about as far as someone can be from stating something is "wrong" or "stupid".

[Gunstar]

 

It's strange to me that you'd get that impression from my various statements. Why would I think someone would be stupid for doing what they want with vintage hardware? I think I made my stance abundantly clear. Pointing out why an alternative might be a better option in a discussion forum while supporting the original poster's desired methods is about as far as someone can be from stating something is "wrong" or "stupid".

Not by what you have said, but by the fact that you keep pressing the issue.

[Bill Loguidice]

Not by what you have said, but by the fact that you keep pressing the issue.

 

I'm only responding when responded to. Again, usually how discussions work on a discussion forum. I don't get why this bothers you so much.

[Gunstar]

I never got the "wrong and stupid" from what was posted. I did get that it was meant as friendly advice and concern.

Concern of what exactly? Also, this thread has gone long, so whatever the "advice" part was, I've forgotten. But I hardly think some one's reason for not using the Atari for word processing is advice either, I remember warnings, about losing data, but I've lost gigabytes of data on PC's over the years of every kind. I don't ever recall losing any data from anything I've done on my 8-bit. So to me it's empty warnings.

[Gunstar]

 

I'm only responding when responded to. Again, usually how discussions work on a discussion forum. I don't get why this bothers you so much.

Point taken, Sorry.

[+mytek]

GEEZE...do you use a PC word processor for leaving messages on the forums? Is that optimal rather than using the text editor on the site? Neither is my using an 8-bit. Apples and Oranges fellow.

Well I probably should do that sometimes since I've had it pointed out in the past that my grammar usage is stupid . But that really wasn't the point I was trying to make. But let's get back on topic...

 

So I do indeed understand the desire to get back to basics and use the A8 for writing. I too love what FJC created in TLW, and now that I have DVI via Simius's new Sophia RevC board it's looking pretty fine in 80 columns as well. And I know there will be times when I will use it as a writing tool on my 1088XEL with built-in CF capability, and it will serve that function very well.

[Bill Loguidice]

Concern of what exactly? Also, this thread has gone long, so whatever the "advice" part was, I've forgotten. But I hardly think some one's reason for not using the Atari for word processing is advice either, I remember warnings, about losing data, but I've lost gigabytes of data on PC's over the years of every kind. I don't ever recall losing any data from anything I've done on my 8-bit. So to me it's empty warnings.

 

I've stated the "advice" part a few times. I tried to give my perspective as someone who is a writer, and someone who has used various computers for close to 40 years. Whether you've personally experienced a loss on the Atari 8-bit or not is irrelevant, the risk is there. With a modern workflow, you can eliminate almost 100% of the chance of losing any data, don't have to worry about converting anything, and can work pretty much anywhere and any time from a variety of devices. My perspective was if you're going to go to the effort of working on a novel - which is a non-trivial undertaking - you want to put yourself in the best position to succeed. My opinion is that the Atari 8-bit - or any vintage hardware - is not necessarily putting yourself in said position.

 

Now, I also clearly acknowledged that writing is extremely personal and that there is certainly a romantic appeal to using vintage hardware. And if that's what helps you get the writing work done, more power to you and your tools of choice. I've flirted with the "romantic" side of writing several times over the years, but personally I eventually came to understand it was more excuse than need. Again, just some friendly advice, not meant as sacrosanct. I'm sympathetic to the writer and writing life since I love and actively engage in writing myself. That's all there is to it. I certainly have nothing against the Atari 8-bit or any other vintage computer. I've certainly spent enough time writing positively on those very subjects in a high profile manner to ever be accused of that.

[Gunstar]

The bottom line for me, is I like using my 8-bit, I TRUST my 8-bit not to crash and lose my work, which is definitely not the case with PC's; fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. My 8-bit can't be hacked or molested by the outside world, my PC can. And both can lose power and data in a power outage or spike, and both can use back-up batteries to avoid this. I will never trust any outside source to hold my data, ever. It's not a matter of IF, but WHEN someone decides to hack "the cloud" or whatever. Just look at Exprian(?) and all the millions of peoples personal data being hacked. I keep all my important writing, and business management on my un-hackable 8-bit. In fact, most people, even with direct access to my "obsolete" 8-bit wouldn't know how to access my stuff on this ancient machine.

 

I'm right (write?) where I want to and need to be. And the more interconnected our world gets with new tech, the less and less trusting I am of doing anything with it, if I can help it.

 

And to answer your earlier comments, I would be much happier to get rid of my cell phone and many other modern conveniences in favor of privacy and not being distracted. I often leave my phone at home, just not to be bothered. I'm perfectly happy with buying hard-copy movies than streaming, too, etc. What you find to be modern conveniences I find to be further intrusion into my life with distractions and far less privacy. Sometimes old ways are better ways.