Nintendo Ruined Video Games

[Atari Pogostick]

As for the topic of the thread:

 

I don't think the big N ruined video games, but I also don't think they saved them either. I think they exploited a weakness in the market, by strong arming 3rd party development houses into questionable exclusivity agreements, making it much easier on themselves to deliver a mostly shoddy product to an unknowing market sector, and drowned out their competition in Atari and Sega with copious over-marketing and intentionally deceitful ad campaigns - and forced their competition into a near complete lack of 3rd party development support.

 

They were a bit like Gordon Gecko. They bought into the market when it was low, treated their employees like shit, and forced everyone else out of the market through unsavory tactics. And they covered it all up with a mask of cutesy mushroom and cartoon themed syrupy kidsy themed force-fed "product".

One could say their third-party strong arm failed and succeeded. Because it didn't work for western devs at all.

 

Of all relevant consoles in the us, the best selling games are all primarily western, except Nintendo consoles, which is of no surprise since western devs always fled from Nintendo from the NES. Especially American ones. N64 did a bit better in that department but still no.

[Flojomojo]

My issue is that many people spread false claims about when and where Nintendo did things....

Yeah, all true. But it's not Nintendo's fault that so many "video game writers" are lazy hacks.

[Tanooki]

Hmm I think a few of your Nintendo burns are kind of debatable or at least up to fair interpretation. I get your point though enough Nintendo fanboys are full of their own fart sniffing, same can be said of Sega and really Sony clingers too.

[Atari Pogostick]

Yeah, all true. But it's not Nintendo's fault that so many "video game writers" are lazy hacks.

How it it not Nintendos fault when they KNEW and let it happen? For years? Decades?

[Atari Pogostick]

Hmm I think a few of your Nintendo burns are kind of debatable or at least up to fair interpretation. I get your point though enough Nintendo fanboys are full of their own fart sniffing, same can be said of Sega and really Sony clingers too.

Are you talking about my posts? All those quotes are real.

[Tanooki]

Yes I was as some of it seems just a bit over exaggerated, maybe a bit out of context, or cherry picked from the largest pieces of tin foil hat possible.

[Atari Pogostick]

Yes I was as some of it seems just a bit over exaggerated, maybe a bit out of context, or cherry picked from the largest pieces of tin foil hat possible.

 

I mean if you were not around then you can just say so because all those quotes were said. These are things that existed. Especially during earlier internet and later, early wikipedia.

 

Some of which are still repeated today buy your favorite "gaming history" youtuber. I swear those popular Youtubers have done more damage to gaming history than...

Edited September 7, 2018 by Atari Pogostick

[youxia]

 

I swear those popular Youtubers have done more damage to gaming history than...

 

Maybe so, but so but when I read some anti-N posts in this thread - yours included - I do not really feel that this is the real history. I'm sorry, but it just sounds like bunch of sour grapes, for whatever reason: be it longing for good old days when Atari was king or some perceived "Western gaming" (whatever that is) superiority complex. It's supported by a bunch of vague unsourced quotes, which remind me of anti-Sony or other x-ruined-x type arguments, or claims about strongarming, forceful marketing and so on - but do you guys really think that Atari (and other corps) always played fair or did not exploit chances when they got them? Lazy writing, something as old as the hills is nintendo's fault now? Jaysis Sorry, but Big Bad Nintendo just does not add up.

 

For the record, I do not have a horse in this race since I'm a microcomputer/PC fanboi, Sony on a console front. Even so, I don't see any grand conspiracy or significant foul play here, definitely not ruination of my favourite pastime.

 

The one big reason Nintendo is as big and respected as it is today is because they consistently release top quality games and solid or innovative hardware. They did it for decades. I don't even particularly like Mario (and platformers in general) but I can recognize why other people love it (hint: something to do with stellar gameplay) I thought Wii was ridiculous when I first saw it and yet it sold bazillions for a reason: it was fun to play. I say good luck to them. Videogaming has (or had) much bigger problems than the Big N.

[Flojomojo]

History is written by the winners.

[Atari Pogostick]

 

Maybe so, but so but when I read some anti-N posts in this thread - yours included - I do not really feel that this is the real history. I'm sorry, but it just sounds like bunch of sour grapes, for whatever reason: be it longing for good old days when Atari was king or some perceived "Western gaming" (whatever that is) superiority complex. It's supported by a bunch of vague unsourced quotes, which remind me of anti-Sony or other x-ruined-x type arguments, or claims about strongarming, forceful marketing and so on - but do you guys really think that Atari (and other corps) always played fair or did not exploit chances when they got them? Lazy writing, something as old as the hills is nintendo's fault now? Jaysis Sorry, but Big Bad Nintendo just does not add up.

 

For the record, I do not have a horse in this race since I'm a microcomputer/PC fanboi, Sony on a console front. Even so, I don't see any grand conspiracy or significant foul play here, definitely not ruination of my favourite pastime.

 

The one big reason Nintendo is as big and respected as it is today is because they consistently release top quality games and solid or innovative hardware. They did it for decades. I don't even particularly like Mario (and platformers in general) but I can recognize why other people love it (hint: something to do with stellar gameplay) I thought Wii was ridiculous when I first saw it and yet it sold bazillions for a reason: it was fun to play. I say good luck to them. Videogaming has (or had) much bigger problems than the Big N.

 

Theres nothing anti-N in my post. Those are all real quotes many of which some are still said today, and me being upset they let that happen is completely logical.

 

Also a lot of weird nonsense by fans were ecoed in interviews or mentioned during the 80's and 90's so this whole thing of "it's not Nintendo's fault" is disingenuous at worse, and obtuse at best. They were well aware what was happening and sat on it for personal gain. i don't think any company should do that. Sega fans did that to. Ain't anything Anti-Nintendo about that.

 

I also never said anything about Atari being better or worse either, in fact I'd say Atari might have been just as much of an asshole in terms of what it let happen.. Seems you came in this thread to intentionally jump to conclusions with no basis, at least with my post anyway. Heck I think the only console manufacture, well major console manufacturer, that wasn't a complete moron relatively, is Microsoft.

 

I also find this fascination with Mario interesting as well. Mario has relied more on being bundled than any other franchise in the history of games, and it was already proven with the Wii U, and the Game Cube, and the N64, that if Mario is on a shelf most people won't by it in any significant number. I'm not saying Mario is bad, but it doesn't make sense that people(hardcore Nintendo fans) claim Mario is this amazing revolution in gaming BECAUSE of sales if the sales of the bigger games and even a good chunk of spin-offs are bundled.

 

otherwise I think SMB 2 and up are generally decent games. I generally don't care much about platforms (outside Jak 1) unless they are hybrid action games so eh.

 

I think it's better if games and companies have their fans but hardcore 'fanbois' likely are better off not existing because if you're favorite company does dumb stuff you should point it out. If they get worse, then its time to move. it's why i hate when people do the "I have a strong opinion on this object/company. Now wait a minute, I am neutral because I am a "fanboi" of the other object/company so for some reason this means my opinion is more valid and less bias" even though that's not how this works at all.

[+wongojack]

Yes I was as some of it seems just a bit over exaggerated, maybe a bit out of context, or cherry picked from the largest pieces of tin foil hat possible.

 

Yes to this

[Tanooki]

I also don't have a favorite youtube gaming history guy other than I guess the 'Works' series from Parish, people like that who know nothing but regurgitated facts or make up garbage aggravate me so I distance myself and ignore it. Youtube on the whole was a nice start that went into the gutter.

 

Goes to show how polarizing this guy is when I find myself agreeing entirely with youxia.

[Andromeda Stardust]

My issue is that many people spread false claims about when and where Nintendo did things, what they introduced or revolutionized, what games had what impact, and there were times people were paid off. My bigger issue is Nintendo KNEW this, but let it happen for personal gain and this has resulted in a base Nintendo will never have access to and will always only be on the competition or PC's.

 

.......

 

Etc etc etc.

 

All quotes are real and have been said throughout the years, and also currently. They knew this, and led a cult revise history for a loong tome. But we are way better in 2018 than in 2001.

 

As for "saving the industry" and giving them"some" credit I don't agree. I think anyone who tried could have closed the vacuum. If Atari sold 1 million 2600's in 1985 with no advertising, a console that at that point came out almost 10 years prior with primitive graphics, anybody could have came in. Heck if the 7800 came out in 85 I think things would have been vastly different.

I am a raging Nintendo fanboy nerd and even I know better than all that. My friends and social circles back in the 90s did refer to the 2600 as 4-bits because the NES was 8-bit and the graphics were twice as good.

 

The other Atari consoles we didn't even know existed, though as a teen my mom bought me a Lynx...

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

I also find this fascination with Mario interesting as well. Mario has relied more on being bundled than any other franchise in the history of games, and it was already proven with the Wii U, and the Game Cube, and the N64, that if Mario is on a shelf most people won't by it in any significant number. I'm not saying Mario is bad, but it doesn't make sense that people(hardcore Nintendo fans) claim Mario is this amazing revolution in gaming BECAUSE of sales if the sales of the bigger games and even a good chunk of spin-offs are bundled.

 

Speak for yourself. Mario and Zelda games have always been system sellers, bundled with the system or not. There are fans who buy every game in the series.

 

In fact every Nintendo console launch has had a Mario or Zelda series game associated with it in the US.

 

NES: Super Mario Bros.

SNES: Super Mario World

N64: Super Mario 64

Game Cube: Luigi's Mansion (spinoff yes, but Super Mario Sunshine and Smash Bros Melee were not far behind)

Wii: Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess

Wii-U: New Super Mariio Bros. U

Switch: Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild

 

And looking at the charts, these two keynote franchises have consistently held the highest selling numbers of any games released for every system, launch title or not.

 

Sonic the Hedgehog alone did not save Sega from financial ruin as a console developer. Nintendo continues to innovate, and their keynote franchises (including Pokemon for handhelds, much as I generally loathe the series) combined with hardware innovations not available on other platforms, have allowed the company to pick itself up by it's bootstraps and ride out the storm during dark times (Wii-U). Switch outsold both the PS4 and Xbox One in terms of first year sales, so I would say Nintendo as a company is doing fine. They do beat to the sound of their own drum, but considering their rich history, there is no other console manufacturer quite like them.

 

Sony and Microsoft are relatively bland by comparison, unless you enjoy playing fps war games in a sea of gray and brown post-apocalyptic wasteland. What a waste of polygons...

[Zap!]

Obviously you haven't sampled our thousands of craft brews if you believe this. If you only drink the stuff they serve at ballparks, then yes.

 

I drink beers that I can find locally, since there aren't many craft beer stores here. Besides the regular supermarket (Shoprite here in NYC), I also go to the Russian and Asian markets frequently. I strongly prefer dark beers and IPA's. Got any good suggestions?

[Zap!]

 

well imagine that with a very strong malt liquor and artificial sweetener flavor

 

Last time I has one was in like '96. Weren't they similar to Smirnoff Ice? I might be way off, but forgive me it's been over two decades.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I drink beers that I can find locally, since there aren't many craft beer stores here. Besides the regular supermarket (Shoprite here in NYC), I also go to the Russian and Asian markets frequently. I strongly prefer dark beers and IPA's. Got any good suggestions?

I live in Louisiana and am unfamiliar with the nyc market, but I imagine they have lots of world beers in the individual international markets.

 

Abita (Louisiana brewery) makes an 8% abv brew called Andygator. It's medium dark full bodied, not bitter, and on tap or in six packs cost about the same as most other 5% abv import/craft brews. It's a great go-to beer for locals wanting to get drunk, being moderately priced, higher proof, non-filling, and tastes great. Also pairs very well with mudbugs (boiled crawfish).

 

I imagine places like Milwakee to be the armpit of the US, seeing how all the lite megabrews (read: cheap mass market "ballpark" beer) come from that region. But I could be totally wrong. Perhaps the brewing capital of the world might have a wide variety of craft breweries, but every mass market beer I've tasted from this region tastes like piss imo.

 

Good luck. A lot of asian beers can have pretty high abv content. Chimay and Taj-Mahal are excellent high proof Indian beers (not ipa) come in 22oz bottles but a bit pricey for casual drinking. I've had them, pretty rich malts, but not overly bitter like craft ipas. Two 22oz bottles will get you mildly buzzed, about the same as a single bottle of grocery store champaigne.

[Flojomojo]

On topic: "Is Nintendo a Dick?"

https://www.digitiser2000.com/main-page/is-nintendo-a-dick

[mbd30]

On topic: "Is Nintendo a Dick?"

https://www.digitiser2000.com/main-page/is-nintendo-a-dick

 

"At the height of the "video game nasty" storm of the early-90s, representatives for both Sega and Nintendo spoke at a Congressional hearing.

 

Rather than stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Sega, in a gesture of games industry solidarity, Nintendo instead affirmed that, unlike its competitor - then backed into a corner over the release of the supposedly ultra-horrifying Night Trap - it had never released any violent games.

 

Night Trap is currently available for the Nintendo Switch."

 

 

Um, yeah. That was back when video games were still generally considered for children and Nintendo was much more family friendly than Sega. That was Sega's fight, not Nintendo's.

 

As for Night Trap being on the Switch, times have changed since the early 90s.

Edited October 3, 2018 by mbd30

[Tanooki]

That article isn't entirely correct with a few of those points for the dick rating. Nintendo didn't stab Sony in the back, it was quite the reverse. The old history was that they did say screw you and went with Philips, which did happen, but only in more recent times did we learn the content of the deal Sony tried to slip by. Sony made it so any game that came out on CD would give them 100% of the licensing profit while Nintendo would foot the costs of product assembly and distribution. Basically Sony would own the playstation add-on device and reap 100% of the rewards, and Nintendo would have to make up the loss selling their cartridge games. So who really made the dick move there? Would you have honored that deal or looked for someone else not looking to rip you off that blind?

 

Also it's not a dick move to attack ROM distributors or sell a system at not a loss, which he did rate lower on the dick scale, but that's no dick move at all unless you're a thief (roms) or an idiot (selling at a loss.) That last one is a bit of amusing humor over slave labor though, prisoners to box games, right.

 

They did do dick stuff, a few of the lawsuits over third party stuff, and being a-holes about store space in the 80s too. Limiting stock isn't anything exclusive to them, and making their own games was smart in that time (dickish it would be now.) Whining how the Switch uses a proprietary cart is a dick move, not that they exist do given the storage they have in such a tiny space it's the smart thing to do. And those hearings, Sega had that coming given their lying blowhard ads of the day. They wanted to act, cool, jerkish, adult, and all that -- and Nintendo of course let them rot when it came to that hearing. Who wouldn't? Let your competitor bury themselves in the grave they dug for themselves.

[mbd30]

And those hearings, Sega had that coming given their lying blowhard ads of the day. They wanted to act, cool, jerkish, adult, and all that -- and Nintendo of course let them rot when it came to that hearing. Who wouldn't? Let your competitor bury themselves in the grave they dug for themselves.

 

I almost mentioned that as well. Sega and Nintendo were bitter rivals at that time. There was the "Sega does what Nintendon't." ad campaign. Did Sega expect Nintendo to rush to their defense all of a sudden?

 

 

 

[Tanooki]

Yup they were just beyond your normal ads for even then. It wasn't the permission level snark you'd see Coke and Pepsi fling they allowed since their brands popped up instead of the traditional 'Brand X' stuff from before. They'd lie about product, mislead, make up terms like blast processing, comparing a speed demon sonic to a putt putt forward facing go kart game to talk how lame Nintendo was. No one has the right to say Nintendo throwing them under the bus in those hearings was a dick move. They let Sega eat their shit sandwich they created for themselves by just pointing out they were censor nazis totally into a family image blocking out all sorts of stuff from smokes, religious icons, and violent imagery going into the bloody end of things and Sega wasn't.

[Gamemoose]

My issue is that many people spread false claims about when and where Nintendo did things, what they introduced or revolutionized, what games had what impact, and there were times people were paid off. My bigger issue is Nintendo KNEW this, but let it happen for personal gain and this has resulted in a base Nintendo will never have access to and will always only be on the competition or PC's.

 

Remember these: "Nes came out in 1985 with SMB sold millions saved the industry, Segajoined, NES sold 5766 million in less than two years, so Atari put out 7800 because video games were back"

 

"Atari and co were 4-bit systems and are2nd gen. What ColecoVision? Put that second gen to, also 4-bit machine."

 

"Without Nintendo scrolling games would never be made."

 

"All Atari and old computers had were arcade games, Nintendo had real games(proceeds to name double dragon as not an arcade game???"

 

"Nes introduced scrolling to consoles"

 

"No retailers carried games before NES."

 

"We would not be playing games without NES"

 

"Nes introduced the game genres we know today."

 

"Nes was first controller with two buttons giving a range of options.

 

"Super Nintendo Mode 7 was the first time we got Sprite scalling."

 

"Super Nintendo Starfox is the first 3D game.

 

"SNES Star Fox is the first successful 3D game."

 

"N64 has an analogue stick."

 

"Real 3D games started with N64"

 

"Without Mario 64 no one would know how to do 3D"

 

"Mario 64 Is the first 3D platformer"

 

"Mario 64 is 3D Crash bandicoot is not 3D"

 

"Zelda oot introduced a lock-on system in games."

 

"Without GoldenEye Quake/half-life/Halo wouldn't exist."

 

"GoldenEye is the first fps where you can shoot an enemy at different parts of their body."

 

Etc etc etc.

 

All quotes are real and have been said throughout the years, and also currently. They knew this, and led a cult revise history for a loong tome. But we are way better in 2018 than in 2001.

Ok...so lemme get this straight...people were spouting the above and Nintendo should have swooped in to set the record straight? Were these quotes from people of the industry, mainly journalists? Or did these come from a variety of Johnny-Come-Latelys that posted on the web?

 

If it's the latter, Nintendo and other companies have better things to do than fact check what no-name doofus belches out on a keyboard about history or who-did-what-first. I didn't see PBS go out on a limb to silence those saying Fred Rodgers was a soldier who killed people and had tattoos. I highly doubt Nintendo saw all that info, rubbed their hands in glee and cackled maniacally.

[mbd30]

Ok...so lemme get this straight...people were spouting the above and Nintendo should have swooped in to set the record straight? Were these quotes from people of the industry, mainly journalists? Or did these come from a variety of Johnny-Come-Latelys that posted on the web?

 

If it's the latter, Nintendo and other companies have better things to do than fact check what no-name doofus belches out on a keyboard about history or who-did-what-first. I didn't see PBS go out on a limb to silence those saying Fred Rodgers was a soldier who killed people and had tattoos. I highly doubt Nintendo saw all that info, rubbed their hands in glee and cackled maniacally.

 

Or Atari_Pogostick pulled those quotes out of his ass. It looks like a strawman caricature of a Nintendo fanboy.

 

EDIT: On the other hand, there are plenty of idiotic fanboys on the internet, so maybe they are real.

Edited October 3, 2018 by mbd30

[Eltigro]

More likely, those are quotes from kids on the playground.