Greg2600 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Just my two cents, but is nudging really needed? I mean, did any 8-bit pinball games do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Just my two cents, but is nudging really needed? I mean, did any 8-bit pinball games do that? You can do it in Atari's 2600 Video Pinball. Use your Joystick Controllers to "nudge" the ball, but don't "nudge" too much, or you'll cause a "tilt". If you "tilt" the game, your ball scores no more points and any extra balls are lost. (See HELPFUL HINTS to learn more about nudge and tilt.) ..Al 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 yes, nudging was the ONE element that Video Pinball had that _really_ enhanced its gameplay. -Thom 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt_Woloch Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 (edited) Unfortunately, I'm in the hospital right now after having had an accident on a LIME E-scooter yesterday... and it's a bit harder to type with a brace on the left hand since I'm left-handed... so it will take a few more days (I should get released tomorrow) until the next binary. But thank you for your feedback regarding nudging... I'm pretty sure the next version will have it more correctly, but probably the amount will be too big... but we can still tweak it afterwards since I really don't have a good feeling on how much would be right. Oh, and I'm pretty sure that Slamball on the C-64 also had nudging... it even got stronger with each level you advanced. Edited November 6, 2018 by Kurt_Woloch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swami Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Unfortunately, I'm in the hospital right now after having had an accident on a LIME E-scooter yesterday... and it's a bit harder to type with a brace on the left hand since I'm left-handed... so it will take a few more days (I should get released tomorrow) until the next binary. But thank you for your feedback regarding nudging... I'm pretty sure the next version will have it more correctly, but probably the amount will be too big... but we can still tweak it afterwards since I really don't have a good feeling on how much would be right. Oh, and I'm pretty sure that Slamball on the C-64 also had nudging... it even got stronger with each level you advanced. Hope you feel better soon. No rush compared to your well being. Realistic nudging is probably more complex than a lot opf people might initially think, as it is a force or acceleration, that is hard to quantify relative to, say, gravity or a flipper hit. Also, in real life, the force of the initial hit on the machine can vary, while with digital controls, you can only choose one "hand-hit force." As I mentioned before, it will be slight when the ball is in the open, like a few percent of whatever gravity force vector is acting on it at the table angle. When you hit the table while the ball is in contact with a "vertical" surface coming out of the table, there will be a stronger force, a few percent of a full flipper hit, like when the ball skims the flipper or bounces of it and moves up the table a distance about 15 to 20% of the full table height. However, this will be altered depending on the angle of the surface relative the direction of the hand-hit force. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted November 6, 2018 Author Share Posted November 6, 2018 Kurt: Please get better and don't worry about anything BPM related - just concentrate on getting better... Hope all is well with you otherwise. (BTW, I'm left-handed too) 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrekMD Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Sorry to hear that, Kurt. Health is first, so getting better should be your priority now. Get well soon! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imstarryeyed Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Please get better Kurt, thank you for all of your efforts on this project and we look forward to you returning when you say you are feeling better. Please get well soon! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Sorry you admitted about the scooter crash.. J/k! Get Well! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt_Woloch Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) Well, there's not that much to do to get better... I just have to avoid actions that hurt in one of the parts that hurt. Also I should avoid sneezing and letting the brace get wet. Anyway... here's a new update where the table bumping is handled differently... the lower ball is mainly only affected by bumping if it's in contact with something, and the upper ball is only affected by bumping up the table, not left or right, and only if the ball sits at one of the edges of the path. Do you think it's more realistic now? By the way, I would like to append a BIN file as well, and the batch script is set to create one, but it does so using a command called DD which is a bit of a mystery to me since it doesn't exist in the XP environment I'm developing on. I'd first have to find out how this works... probably it just skips the first 128 bytes when copying over the file, but I'm not sure about this. BabyPac.A78 Edited November 7, 2018 by Kurt_Woloch 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted November 7, 2018 Author Share Posted November 7, 2018 Sorry about that -- 'DD' is a holdover from Unix/Linux/AIX/Xenix etc. I found some *NIX utilities for the 386 platform so I am using DD.EXE to remove the first 128 bytes from the .A78 file to make the .BIN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Blue Azure Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Not to interfere, I use the D0 0D cmd on XP, so we know what level I'm at. Here's the bin so people can run it immediately. Sorry to hear about your injury Kurt and hope all recovers shortly. Don't push it though. Just played a few minutes and amazing how well it works for me - phenomenal for a 7800 game. But I defer to the "pro's" to give final judgment. BABYPAC11072018_56CE.bin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 An alternative... I've updated 7800header (in the 7800AsmDevKit) so it can also strip off headers, in addition to it's usual job of adding or changing them. 7800header can run in an interactive menu mode, or with command-line arguments. To strip off the header from BabyPac.A78 in command-line mode, you could run "7800header.exe -b BabyPac.A78" Not that I have anything against dd. I've been immersed in Unix for about a quarter century now. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Unfortunately, I'm in the hospital right now after having had an accident on a LIME E-scooter yesterday... and it's a bit harder to type with a brace on the left hand since I'm left-handed... so it will take a few more days (I should get released tomorrow) until the next binary. But thank you for your feedback regarding nudging... I'm pretty sure the next version will have it more correctly, but probably the amount will be too big... but we can still tweak it afterwards since I really don't have a good feeling on how much would be right. Oh, and I'm pretty sure that Slamball on the C-64 also had nudging... it even got stronger with each level you advanced. rest up my friend. hope your arm gets better soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt_Woloch Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Don't worry, I won't push it. I just thought since I came home from hospital relatively early in the afternoon today, I'd complete this change which I've already started over the weekend. We'll see how it goes on, I'm waiting on your feedback now... Not to interfere, I use the D0 0D cmd on XP, so we know what level I'm at. Here's the bin so people can run it immediately. Sorry to hear about your injury Kurt and hope all recovers shortly. Don't push it though. Just played a few minutes and amazing how well it works for me - phenomenal for a 7800 game. But I defer to the "pro's" to give final judgment. BABYPAC11072018_56CE.bin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imstarryeyed Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 @Kurt I tried out your new nudging and I think you are SPOT ON!!! I honestly think you got that tuned to the left and right nudge perfectly. I was not able to change the ball direction but only slightly influence it which is exactly how it is on the arcade. I was not able to move the flip flop ball more than just a bit on top (which it sat itself down again) by nudging forward and I side nudged myself in / out of a TUNNEL or FRUITS lane which is just right. Congrats I think your physics are very tight. Once Bob puts in the rest of the play field logic I will revisit the physics and nudging just to be sure they still continue to feel right. Great job guys! 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swami Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 Well, there's not that much to do to get better... I just have to avoid actions that hurt in one of the parts that hurt. Also I should avoid sneezing and letting the brace get wet. Anyway... here's a new update where the table bumping is handled differently... the lower ball is mainly only affected by bumping if it's in contact with something, and the upper ball is only affected by bumping up the table, not left or right, and only if the ball sits at one of the edges of the path. Do you think it's more realistic now? By the way, I would like to append a BIN file as well, and the batch script is set to create one, but it does so using a command called DD which is a bit of a mystery to me since it doesn't exist in the XP environment I'm developing on. I'd first have to find out how this works... probably it just skips the first 128 bytes when copying over the file, but I'm not sure about this. BabyPac.A78 @Kurt I tried out your new nudging and I think you are SPOT ON!!! I honestly think you got that tuned to the left and right nudge perfectly. I was not able to change the ball direction but only slightly influence it which is exactly how it is on the arcade. I was not able to move the flip flop ball more than just a bit on top (which it sat itself down again) by nudging forward and I side nudged myself in / out of a TUNNEL or FRUITS lane which is just right. Congrats I think your physics are very tight. Once Bob puts in the rest of the play field logic I will revisit the physics and nudging just to be sure they still continue to feel right. Great job guys! Thank for the update Kurt and to ISE for invaluable comparisons on the real machine. That's good enough for me! Plays amazing now from my own experience. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Blue Azure Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 AS THE SIGN SAYS, RPD ROCKS ON THE 7800!!! Many thanks to Bob kicking off this project and to Kurt for picking it up. When the chips are down we have 2 aces working this project, and many others who also supported. We thank you all. /BBA 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 That says "RPD RICKS". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Blue Azure Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 As I learnt in collage a long time ago, it's 'O' before 'I' except after 'U'. I'm pretty sure he Rocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 As I learnt in collage a long time ago, it's 'O' before 'I' except after 'U'. I'm pretty sure he Rocks.[/quote I still don't get it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 As I learnt in collage a long time ago, it's 'O' before 'I' except after 'U'. I'm pretty sure he Rocks.I still don't get it.. A play on the common phrase "i before e except after c." Some words such as "weird" and "science" violate this principal. I and O represent input and output, and also share semblance with numerals 1 and 0, the two possible logic states of a stored bit or digital circuit path. I do not see where U comes in though, only that it is also a vowel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Blue Azure Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 Can't solve my riddle? Maybe IOU apology? En francais, OUI is YES. Could this be another clue to the riddle? If I=input, O=output, U=undetermined, is this fuzzy logic? Does anything make cents any more? Come on guys, let's build some games! I'm pregnant with one right now...must give birth shortly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 Can't solve my riddle? Maybe IOU apology? En francais, OUI is YES. Could this be another clue to the riddle? If I=input, O=output, U=undetermined, is this fuzzy logic? Does anything make cents any more? Come on guys, let's build some games! I'm pregnant with one right now...must give birth shortly! Nice. I O U (I owe you...) You are "pregnant" with game? I''m not sure this is the normal route for homebrew game creation. Does the "stork" also deliver raw code to the programmer? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxdrive Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 Nice. I O U (I owe you...) You are "pregnant" with game? I''m not sure this is the normal route for homebrew game creation. Does the "stork" also deliver raw code to the programmer? When a 7800 and a programmer love each other very much 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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